In a sea of audio cable industry snake oil, we’re sure you’re wondering, What really matters when buying cables?Save your money by avoiding overpriced cables with outlandish claims. Below are some common myths to look out for and some important things to consider when buying audio cables.
CABLE MYTHS1. Conductor skin effect
In some applications like power transmission lines, an electric signal tends to travel through the surface of a conductor and avoids traveling through the center of the conductor. Many cable companies claim that their design limits the skin effect and measurably improves your sound.
The TruthWhile skin effect is a very real issue for large scale power transmission, audio signals are in such a low-frequency range that the skin effect is negligible at best. The skin effect is only an issue in high-frequency applications. 20kHz is the highest frequency that humans can hear. If we calculate the skin effect on a 12 AWG speaker cable like Gene from Audioholics does in this article, we find that the skin effect results in a loss of only -.014dB. Your speakers, room acoustics, and the human ear have a much larger effect on your sound than the skin effect. 2. Cable break-in
Don’t be fooled - any company that claims this thinks they can trick you into hearing better sound after a month or two. “Break-in” is a commonly used term throughout the industry. It is the idea that the dielectric of a cable changes and aligns itself to the electromagnetic field of the signal traveling through the conductors.
The Truth
There is no scientific evidence to support the idea of cable break-in, but there are still those who claim it improves sonic qualities. We’re not against optimism. We’re just not full of crap. Don’t drink the audio industry kool-aid and save your money for legitimate cables.
3. Cryogenic treatment
Cryogenic treatment is the process of freezing cables to -320 degrees Fahrenheit before use. The claim is that freezing the conductors of the cable at ultra low temperatures aligns the crystalline grain structure of them resulting in desirable improvements.
The Truth
Again there is no scientific data to support this notion. Cryogenic treatment can improve the durability of certain metals, usually steel, by stabilizing impurities. For example, the process is used to create strong tools or car parts.
But, steel is a terrible metal to use for audio cables. It is one of the least conductive metals out there! Copper and silver are the best conductors of electricity and the preferred metals for audio cables.
4. Cable signal direction
You might hear this phrase tossed around quite a bit. It’s the notion that a cable has an established signal direction, the direction in which it was initially used, and that this signal direction should not be reversed.
The Truth
The reality is, assuming the connector ends and terminals are the same, the cable will work in both directions and the performance will be equivalent.
5. Cable elevators, risers, or lifts
The claim is that the cables’ magnetic field can interfere with the surface it is laying on. Essentially, the magnetic field can “reflect” from the surface back into the cable and cause distortions.
The Truth
There is no evidence to support these claims, and these unnecessary devices are merely for looks. They are in no way proven to improve cable performance.
CABLE FACTS1. Shielding is Important
In the modern age, wireless signals are all around us all the time. The rapid growth and spread of technology means that these wireless signals will become more widespread and more likely to cause unwanted interference. Cellphones, wifi, and Bluetooth signals can enter your cables, but shielding can block these signals and preserve your sound quality.
2. Length is a Factor
No matter how well a cable is designed, cable length will always impact performance. As the length of a cable goes up, so does the risk of unwanted interference and signal loss. We always recommend keeping your cables as short as possible, but we understand that is not always possible. A well constructed and shielded cable will help combat this issue.
3. Conductor material plays a role
The best conductors to use for audio cables are pure silver or pure copper. Both are valued for their high conductivity, but copper is more widely used due to the high price of silver. Additionally, some variations are constructed with silver-plated copper. However, because the metals have different conductivities, the sound is more likely to travel through only the silver plating and not the copper.
The purity of the conductor will affect performance more than anything. Look for Oxygen-Free High Conductivity (OFHC) conductors. This means that a significant percentage of oxygen and other impurities have been removed from the conductor resulting in high purity.
4. Wire gauge should not be overlooked
The amount of wattage your system is using will determine the total gauge size needed for safe and optimal performance. The standard is 14 gauge wire minimum for the transmission of 250 watts of power. Many electronic devices use much less than this, but some speakers and listening setups may be using more. If your system uses more than 250 Watts, we recommend a higher total gauge cable.
5. Quality connectors matter
Truly, the best connectors are no connectors at all. But, if you can’t hardwire your system, gold plated connectors are the industry standard. Gold plating exhibits great corrosion resistance when exposed to oxygen and has good conductive properties. Connectors range from basic to extremely high end and flashy.
The bottom line is: Choose connectors based on your personal needs and the type of connection being made. Overall, always choose quality connectors.
We hope these myths and facts will help you choose quality, reasonably priced cables to complete your listening room, studio, or whatever your setup may be.
I tried expensive audiophile speaker cables, they look great, but don't change the sound one bit. Tried Synergestic black SR20 fuses, front and back, again no difference, expect that the fuse being a few mm longer than the normal fuse, it compresses the fuse holder and you need to fix this before putting back normal fuses. Put lots in diffusers and bass traps, wow now we are talking. My experience. Jean
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Now, if you believe YOU can hear it, go buy a $100,000 cable. The seller is laughing all the way to the bank, but YOU are happy."
See, that's a major part of the problem right there. A large percentage that believe cables can and do sound or perform differently don't necessarily believe that the more expensive a cable is the better it has to sound. And they will agree that there is a large amount of snake oil out there. And they are not saying that ALL cables sound different. All they are saying is that they have experimented and found that certain cables have performed better in their systems. A large number of people on the other side come out and say that's literally impossible. Many of them have only read a scholarly sounding article or two that made sense to them and justified their own reluctance to spend time and money experimenting for themselves. In other words a large percentage of them have never been curious or bold enough to say, 'hey I'm going to find out for myself and make my own conclusions'. And bias can work both ways. If some believe that a more expensive cable is going to blow them away then some will be biased enough to be blown away. But on the other hand if someone reads a scholarly sounding article that tells them that science and measurements have proven beyond a doubt that there really is no difference and that they are idiots to spend their time and hard earned money chasing something that isn't there, then either they won't experience differences, or they won't even experiment for themselves. They'll just blindly buy into it and jump on the bandwagon to point fingers and laugh. Herd mentality.
I've experimented with so many different systems and cables over the past 45 years and the most expensive cable I have ever bought was $640. The two sets of interconnects I currently have in my system cost me about $225 each. I've compared them to IC's that were up to $500 a pair and always chose to keep the ones I had, not because I couldn't tell a difference but because mine, the less expensive cable, sounded more to my tastes. Many of the cables I've tried DID sound pretty much the same. And I certainly don't think there are many more expensive cables out there that would outperform mine to a large enough degree to justify the expense. But the bottom line is that no matter how much science and measurements you spew forth there is still too much that we haven't learned yet, especially when it comes to what the human brain can and does perceive.
Reading these forums once tempted me to try this or that. Slowly over time I realized the person that owned gear several levels above mine, cost wise anyway, is likely ‘still on the case’.
I came to the conclusion that stopping where I am is as good a place as any. In a facetious tone, I’m happy being dissatisfied here!
So what if he's a cable manufacturer? There are plenty of those in here. He has an opinion, and there are plenty of those in here too.
I agree that if he's trying to sell something, he should pay for a listing like anyone else. I also agree that he should disclose his profession. It may even lend some credibility to his comments.
But, saying that, I don't see that he was trying to sell anything other than his opinion. And that's more than I could say about some of the other commentators in here who post reviews and comments with the specific intent of selling something that some would call snake oil. You know who you are.
Personally, I find it sad that everyone attacks him. Sure, you can disagree, but why do you have to attack him personally? He's posted exactly 3 times, and everyone has formed an opinion of who and what he is based on that little information.
What's more, it's truly abhorrent that MillerCarbon would quote him, and actively, maliciously misquote him in the process. Honestly, MC, why do you act this way? I didn't see where there was any "trashing the competition" in his post. Feel free to disagree with him, but don't put words in his mouth and then blast him for what YOU said. And, by the way, at the end of the day, it IS the shilling that people dislike.
I'm a bit confused. OK not that unusual in my case, but, reading the responses from the pro cables side I feel like they think that the OP is against cables. I felt that he/she/they were pro cables. I think the following paragraph from dragon1952 sums up almost exactly in layman's terms what the OP was trying to say.
I've experimented with so many different systems and cables over the past 45 years and the most expensive cable I have ever bought was $640. The two sets of interconnects I currently have in my system cost me about $225 each. I've compared them to IC's that were up to $500 a pair and always chose to keep the ones I had, not because I couldn't tell a difference but because mine, the less expensive cable, sounded more to my tastes. Many of the cables I've tried DID sound pretty much the same. And I certainly don't think there are many more expensive cables out there that would outperform mine to a large enough degree to justify the expense.
The initial post is full of opinion stated as fact. I too, am an audio manufacturer and unequivocally stating that "this' or "that" doesn't make any difference is to grossly misstate easily verifiable materials, frequency response, electrical characteristic or impulse changes.
I think it's time to leave this forum. There really is too much negativity, arguing, name-calling and people who have their own agenda, rather than being a "community". Why is it always a fight? It doesn't have to be this way, folks.
I used to think that I could read a thread for 30 or 40 posts before it goes off track into argument-land. Now, it has gotten more like after 5 posts it's off track.
So many threads I've seen with questions from people, and everyone recommends whatever is their favorite gear or tweak without even addressing the question. The really good people have been chased away. And a newbie gets attacked so fast, or their thread turns to trash so fast, I don't know why a newbie would want to visit here.
There has just gotten to be too much narcissism and hate in here. Have fun, y'all. Sounder-Out.
Saying there is "there is no cable breaking-in" without any proof is as bad or even worse than saying otherwise. "ShieldCable" is just re-iterating some dogmatic beliefs without any scientific evidence.
It to hijack the thread but this really wound me up... Dragon52...really? You honestly, deep down, "believe" that scientists, at some level, don't understand how bicycles (and thus unicyles and motorcycles) work? Just from some bs fake new website?
By and large most people that post here are smart but now and again some ridiculous theories/contentions get posted. That is the dumbest contention and article I have ever read on any website.
Every single thing about bicycles is completely understood or we couldn't have improved them over 150ish years and make incremental and sometimes major improvements every year from hundreds of manufacturers using science, physics, chemistry, and scientists. To whit: https://www.explainthatstuff.com/bicycles.html
"Any business person knows that the marketplace determines the success of a product. Wikipedia: Ford Edsel
Belden - Iconoclast Furutech Cardas Nordost Purist MIT Transparent Stereovox - Black Cat Acoustic Zen . . . and more
All these cable companies have been in business for decades. Each company has customers from around the world. Each customer has a different system - and different hearing capabilities.
And you’re accusing them all of lying. Wow!"
As I've said before, these cable companies do not, and as far as I know ever have, claimed one iota of superiority in either electrical or sonic performance over any decent copper cable.
Therefore it's simply not possible to accuse them of lying (or more to the point - challenging them in court).
No, they simply imply some nebulous quality often backed up by advertising, sleeve design and most importantly, price.
We all know that more expensive items must be better, right?
That's it, once the touchpaper is lit it's simply a question of standing back and counting the money. Their work is done -the rest is down to the dealer and the listener's hungry imagination.
Some few might bite and many others will not. As far as science is concerned nothing has changed. The cable manufacturers know this perfectly well and remain tight-lipped.
Their work is done - until the next advertising / marketing facelift is required of course.
It seems the older I get the less I know. But I do know that we all have different hearing capabilities & there's some things you'll hear that I may not be able to, maybe even vice versa.
Recommendations from asylum members can help steer one into the right ballpark. Once in, it's up to the individual to determine if the $40 seats are worth twice as much as the $20 seats.
Now where's that snake oil thread, I need to figure out whether to run full synthetic or if Rotella will work.
Thank you for your interesting article. When I read the title, I said to myself, here we go again and again etc. More hogwash. At the end of the article, I was surprised. I had to reread it because I was sure I had made a mistake in my initial reading opinion. Nope, second reading did not change my mind. Based on my experience, observations, and a lot of technical researching, I agree with everything said. Since we both agree, everything said must be accurate with no dissenters, right? LOL That, of course, will prove to be wrong. There are always objectors. But, what the hell, it was fun saying it. Thanks for your contribution.
Hello, the cables are truly snake oil , sorry I didn’t read entire post waste of time. I can only point one famous brand AQ they come out 20k and after a year or two prices go down to 5k , and actually I think soon the Webster library will run out of wards. That many names they are using for their cables 😀
What we don't have here is any description of any posters system. I agree that any well constructed cable sounds okay in a mid-fi system. In my stuff, Wilson speakers, top Conrad-Johnson electronics and dCS source, cables of all sorts make a hearable difference. As you go up in system quality, usually because you are sensitive to small differences in sound quality, you can hear cable improvements. In fact, the problem is that small difference, once heard, can't be unheard. Wham... another twenty grand down the tube. No pun intended.
Don't believe the OP ever said all cables are the same or you can't hear differences between cables. What i read is that he believes there are certain myths that don't make an audible difference and there are certain design characteristics of cables that do make an audible difference.
The “TRUTH IS” this article is complete crap! Cables make a huge difference! Grounding being the biggest. Next would be power cables. Those two things make the most difference lowering the noise floor. If you say you don’t hear a difference then you just don’t want to hear it. Well, you could be deaf I suppose...
Ding-ding-ding-ding.....@dragon1952 nailed it. Succinct and to the point. "But the bottom line is that no matter how much science and measurements you spew forth there is still too much that we haven’t learned yet, especially when it comes to what the human brain can and does perceive."
Duke Ellington once said, "If it sounds good, it IS good."
Beauty is in the ears of the beholder.
The discussion goes on and on. toward infinity, ad nauseam (Where’s my spectrum analyzer.....)
My thinking regarding cables (power or otherwise) is this: If the manufacturer of quality audio equipment includes a certain cable or recommends a cable as an additional purchase, I would think that such cable works well with their device. I don’t know why the manufacturer would market, say, an amplifier and then handicap its performance by including or recommending a deficient cable. The company is in competition with other companies to deliver the best sound, so they should be motivated to have their sound be the best. I figure they most thing their cable does that.
The other consideration, for me, is money. I have a finite amount of it and I have other needs and wants that compete with how much I can spend on audio. So, while the $10,000 cable might well deliver better sound than a $100 cable, the cheaper cable fits better into my budget and mates with the lesser amounts I spend on equipment it is connected to. That $10,000 cable probably doesn’t make as much difference when connected to a $1,000 amp instead of a $20,000 amp.
As I’ve noted before, I’m a “most bang for the buck” guy. I might well get more enjoy from driving a new Porsche 911 instead of my 7 year old Honda, but driving the Honda allows me money to spend on other things I value even more. Those who wealth allows them to purchase tens of thousands of dollars in audio equipment AND the Porsche AND the McMansion AND the vacations to Europe or island paradises, etc. . . . their decisions are different, because they can. More power to them.
bob540 My thinking regarding cables (power or otherwise) is this: If the manufacturer of quality audio equipment includes a certain cable or recommends a cable as an additional purchase, I would think that such cable works well with their device. I don’t know why the manufacturer would market, say, an amplifier and then handicap its performance by including or recommending a deficient cable. The company is in competition with other companies to deliver the best sound, so they should be motivated to have their sound be the best. I figure they most thing their cable does that.
>>>>It’s been my observation 👀 that amplifier manufacturers by and large are not aware of the cable controversy and if they are don’t really care much about it. In their minds it’s all about the circuit design. It’s the same idea for fuses and wire directionality. Audiophiles are way ahead of amplifier manufacturers in this regard.
It’s been my observation 👀 that amplifier manufacturers by and large are not aware of the cable controversy and if they are don’t really care much about it. In their minds it’s all about the circuit design. It’s the same idea for fuses and wire directionality. Audiophiles are way ahead of amplifier manufacturers in this regard.
I have observed the same thing with one exception being Steve McCormack at SMc Audio. Steve and Patrick built my new amplifiers and by working with them throughout the process (and previously with a preamp they built for me) I can honestly say they leave no stone (or capacitor) unturned. Things like connectors, wire, caps, resistors, fuses, power cords, transformers, damping, supports, and on and on, in addition to significant circuit and grounding improvements, they pretty much look at everything to build the best amplifiers they can. As a pioneer in audio equipment improvements (i.e., tiptoes and equipment modifications by the ModSquad), my experience with Steve is that he looks not only at the components but also ancillaries as shown by his products such as the flex-connect,
Nexus AC Power Conditioner, Cable Kiln burn-in service, and Gravity Base System that is included in my amplifiers. https://www.stereophile.com/interviews/522/index.html
1. The skin effect is only an issue in high-frequency applications. 20kHz is the highest frequency that humans can hear. If we calculate the skin effect on a 12 AWG speaker cable like Gene from Audioholics does in this article, we find that the skin effect results in a loss of only -.014dB. Your speakers, room acoustics, and the human ear have a much larger effect on your sound than the skin effect. 2. Cable break-in
Don’t be fooled - any company that claims this thinks they can trick you into hearing better sound after a month or two. “Break-in” is a commonly used term throughout the industry. It is the idea that the dielectric of a cable changes and aligns itself to the electromagnetic field of the signal traveling through the conductors.
The Truth is, maybe not the truth.
As I got older I learned not to make statements without really listening.. Honestly, the crew your working with, can hear REALLY well? Do you have a reference point on "whos got the chops" "THE EARS" in the bunch.. Get hearing test done see who can actually hear well. START there.. No late night BASS parties, night before testing. 200.00 usd get a hear test done..or Group discounts?
THEN the truth is,
If you can't hear the difference in cabling you best stick to making BASS box cable, you admit bigger is better, so you're halfway there already.
Now just make it pretty...
I want to touch "CAN ONLY hear to 20kh". This is not an accurate statement. Some people have hypersensitive hearing, 24kh. I met one at Stanford. I have it also (20 + then), a blessing and a curse. Lives with noise suppression devices in his ears.. I was being fitted for the same..Quite a few Audiofilers have trained themselves and have GOOD ears...They also protect them.. THE EARS...
The same goes for those who can't hear well, I worked with a lot of mechanics that did not take care of their hearing (BASS HEADS). They were dashboard drummers, only because they couldn't hear it, they could only feel it.
Breaking in, Cryo, and direction are hype... WOW, if you can't hear a difference in direction reversal after a breakin, stick to the bass cables, really. Cryo, I didn't believe, UNTIL, I ABCDed and found a difference. A good difference. Even handling a cable rough after treatment makes a difference..Not allowing static discharge on cable ends..Sealing ends when not in use...
Secondly there are networks in cables and have been for a while. Reversal will put the inductor and HF networks at the wrong ends of the cable..What happens then? Could mess up the network? maybe.
Why do my ears BLEED, when an interconnect (RCA) is backwards, or muddy just out of the box if there is no direction on it, (not cooked). 2-20 hours later the muddy or muffled sound clears up..usually, Alu/copper clad usually won't. Some will but never sound full, complete..FAT...
I touched on just a couple of your statements.. I would urge you to do a LOT more research on you own, and LISTEN.
dragon1952179 posts04-02-2020 12:47pmshieldedaudio Science can’t even explain how a freakin’ bicycle works yet. Since you’re so smart maybe you can. " How Bicycles Work
I love the post.. The answer is simple. Has nothing to do with the bicycle. It is the person that's on it. Bicycles don't stand on their own, and most people don't need a kickstands.. There are those that have lost the use of a body appendage, but are very stable.. Unicycle?? Tightrope walkers. heck a dog a bear and a chipmunk can ride a bike...LOL crack me up..
Here's a recent discussion between two audio journalists upon the existence of snake oil in audio.
My take on it was that the irritatingly impatient John Darko was continuously attempting to coerce the rather more ambivalent Jeff Dorgay (TONEAudio Magazine) into a blanket condemnation of virtually all accusations of snake oil in the industry.
Dorgay to his credit refuses to bite and maintains a reasonable perspective.
Darko on the other hand manages to forever darken his reputation as an audio journalist in my estimation.
You may feel differently.
I'll admit it's not the most rivetting of podcasts but it could certainly help pass the time during the more mundane lockdown chores.
Gentlemen (and ladies if any present), instead of disagreeing ad infinitum why not perform a simple experiment — try it: all it takes is a professional IC, 4 short lengths of zip cord & four connectors. Solder together a zip cord IC and compare with the professional one. Give the new IC ~10 minutes to come into its own. If you do not perceive a difference, keep the zip & sell the branded product -- and post here! (BTW, I did try this and there was a difference is the sound. I kept my homebrew, put together by a professional electrician I know: it is quite complex and NOT made of zip cord. )
GK from my interpretation ( granted after a nice Pinot ) the ancient pictographs have arrows indicating signal direction to the SOURCE of the next..... meal
Wow, some scary stuff in here. People believing a copper wire has a direction, others saying they don’t care or believe science... I was starting to get the vibe there are a lot of arm-chair Electrical engineers around here, and maybe few Santeria practitioners as well but damn...
Quality product is a real thing but when you throw the science out... Got a friend who has been an EE professor for 25 years at a top 50 school. I showed this thread to him and he said, "There’s an old quote, ’There are three scales of intelligence, one which understands by itself, a second which understands what is shown it by others, and a third which understands neither by itself nor on the showing of others’. Here, we have the last scale."
Wow, some scary stuff in here. People believing a copper wire has a direction, others saying they don’t care or believe science... I was starting to get the vibe there are a lot of arm-chair Electrical engineers around here, and maybe few Santeria practitioners as well but damn...
Quality product is a real thing but when you throw the science out... Got a friend who has been an EE professor for 25 years at a top 50 school. I showed this thread to him and he said, "There’s an old quote, ’There are three scales of intelligence, one which understands by itself, a second which understands what is shown it by others, and a third which understands neither by itself nor on the showing of others’. Here, we have the last scale."
I concur.
So what scale of intelligence is it where you're not even smart enough to know you're barking up the wrong tree?
There is no scientific evidence to support the idea of cable break-in, but there are still those who claim it improves sonic qualities. We’re not against optimism. We’re just not full of crap. Don’t drink the audio industry kool-aid and save your money for legitimate cables.”
I have a cable break-in story from yesterday. I wanted to try out a new headphone amplifier because I wasn’t getting the volume I wanted out of my current setup. After trying the headphone amp and realizing I didn’t like it (it got louder but it didn’t sound as good), I went back to my old setup which involved making a couple changes to some interconnects and headphone cable after removing the amp from the chain.
I was now back at the exact same setup I have been listening to for weeks. Whereas I could turn the volume knob to maximum and enjoy the music before, now I couldn’t even turn it up halfway without being repulsed by the sound. It’s was so harsh it hurt my ears!
I let the system play overnight and now I can turn the volume to max and enjoy the sound. In this scenario, I don’t think the cables themselves were breaking in as they have already been played for 100s of hours. I strongly suspect that the new copper to copper connections inside the RCA connector had to “settle in” in some manner.
shieldedaudio "The bottom line is: Choose connectors based on your personal needs and the type of connection being made."
That is very helpful advice so what you are saying is if a cable in your Music Reproduction System is going to be replaced and it currently uses "RCA" type plugs then it's replacement should also use "RCA" type plugs and not "XLR" type plugs or "Schuko" type plugs or "CAMAC" type plugs but always use what was their first!
I can never understand these threads where people state that there is no difference between 2 completely different components (or 2 differently sized and constructed cables).
We can all agree that wire is needed to connect the speakers to the amp, correct? Like, my cotton shoe laces won’t transmit an electrical signal, correct?
Ok, so if we can agree on that, then are you cable nay sayers implying that a single strand of rusted wire, the size of a human hair, is going to sound identical to an 8 gauge ofc cable? If not, then have you found out exactly where in between those two examples that you no longer gain ANY benefits?
It’s a disservice to people wanting to gain knowledge and improve the sound they have by telling them that something doesn’t work, because it didn’t work for you in your application.
I like to detail cars and am able to inspect paint at a much higher level than most. It’s actually difficult to point out to others what I see, but more importantly, what I’m looking at with regards to the reflections in paint. Same is true with Audio. Your stereo set up will never get better if you deal in absolutes and have a closed mind.
You guys who think Audiogon forums are fraught with hate and discontent should hang out on a car enthusiast forum sometime. Doesn't matter which one, you pick...........
@b_limo --OP never said there is no difference between cables--in fact he said there is and listed the factors that he thinks are important in differentiating.
This esteemed professor totally missed the fourth scale of intelligence.
"One who understands that he doesn’t know what is yet to be known."
His arrogance leads him to believe that science has already discovered and explained everything. What nitwit! 😎
Ditto, 25 years of teaching, yet can’t practice what they preach, LEARNING. Sounds rather dense to me..
This thread is the epitome of youth, and those who didn’t take care of their ears, during youth, both synonymous. Those whom were born with less than perfect hearing. My hats off to you. I have family that were born deaf. But for those that refuse to LISTEN have adequate, good, or excellent hearing. What can I say, other than TEST yourself. and "To thine own self be true" and OTHERS, let me add.
Psychoacoustics is VERY real, to prove OR disprove. That’s the part naysayers forget. "disprove". Being an old mechanic, you just have to know when to say "UNCLE".
It’s ok to be wrong, or not know, To insist that everyone else be ignorant and or wrong as well, that is the issue, with folk like me. You can’t, so I can’t either...Crack me up. Eye for an Eye thing...
The OP and those that agree, I hope your endeavor leads to a sound that YOU like, can enjoy, tap your foot to, GET up and dance, set down and sing along, or just turn it up. To you, ALL the good things that music does for me. Unfortunately I’m pretty sure I’d be looking for SHIP listening to some of these setups... Headphones turned ALL the way up..Wondering why you can’t tell the difference. The only thing left after your ears are blistered, is VOLUME...keep doing that and you won’t get that, volume. FACT, not MO. Only thing that goes on my ears are muffs or plugs..Not that earbuds, or headphones don’t have a place.
I agree many folks just can’t hear..Keep making BIG fat bass cables, and itsy bitsy, RCA made with recycled soda cans. Works..... kinda..
I like to detail cars and am able to inspect paint at a much higher level than most. It’s actually difficult to point out to others what I see, but more importantly, what I’m looking at with regards to the reflections in paint. Same is true with Audio. Your stereo set up will never get better if you deal in absolutes and have a closed mind.
Great example. There's a lot of things like this where ordinary people who simply care enough are able to develop skills that far outpace the ability of scientists and engineers to explain let alone match. Mercedes has spent hundreds of millions on some damn fine engineering and computers and sensors yet they still rely on Lewis Hamilton to tell them what the car is really doing.
This is what I meant by my comment that these people are barking up the wrong tree. They are so backwards bone-headed its almost impossible to comprehend. Science and technology, double-blind and all that, we use these things to understand the human experience. Not to tell the human he didn't have an experience. They have it so backwards its inside out upside down AND backwards!
That's not to say humans are infallible. When my 911 was painted after a ding I told the shop owner the color was off. He was all no look its perfect. We mixed the paint perfectly. What pigments did you use? Standard ones. Not the German? No standard ones. Well of course its not gonna be right. It measures right. Arrgh!
Week later I drive up park the car owner comes out looks at it says sheepishly well now in this light I can see what you mean. Ha!
Human beings who care. Blow away the meters every time. All day long.
Wow, some scary stuff in here. People believing a copper wire has a direction
Not to take one side or the other, but not all cables are said to be directional. Some manufacturers claim that their cables are ’designed’ to be directional but that claim usually has absolutely NOTHING to do with the conductors themselves. Without wasting my time looking for the exact answer, I believe it has something to do with the ground or the shielding design. Wireworld, however, does make a claim regarding the grain structure of their conductors which is a result of the manner in which their conductor metals are drawn which doesn't sound totally unbelievable.
As a 20 year beta tester for various cables of GroverHuffman.com, he has a patented air dielectric with a combination of techniques which may not be scientifically proven but audibly proven at various shows and in our comparison to other expensive cables. He embosses the finer copper and silver elements in his cabling. He uses both silver and copper wire. He doesn't orient the cable but believes the wire is oriented upon usage. There are multiple levels of elimination of noise, particularly the sleeve which is dipped in a mixture of copper, nickel and tungsten powered glue and a braided copper mesh over that. His phono cables have very low capacitance. Anyway, there were many failed models of wire back in the 2000-2006 period when he used all silver or all copper wire. The mixture varies per quality/price of his cabling and per application (A/C, IC, speaker, etc). There is also an additional non-patented process he uses which is the reason his cables compete with SOTA cabling but at relatively inexpensive cost.
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