rcbashaw525 posts04-11-2020 4:26amAfter making all sorts of Interconnects over the years, I agree with you (Shieldedaudio) about what’s relevant in IC design. I’ve never really heard a difference in copper quality! But silver (7% less resistance) can drive me crazy, it can be so bright! Maybe I just proved your point!
What's funny, you could be standing right,next to a person that loves that that blistering sound. Me I running I can't take it. I've never heard it from good silver wire (pure (er)) but copper/silver clad, and certain dielectrics/covers, sizzle my ears. I found with NO covers, just bare wire in cable armor that "brightness" is gone for the most part. Something to do with how the conductor reacts with the the cover (dielectric) (not sure on the nomenclature). I've ran single wires no covers, in a harp like frame, and hooked one wire at a time end to corresponding end. Not a huge difference compared to wire with insulation/shielding covering them.. I tried; silver (sc), copper (sc and MS), copper/silver clad, alu, alu/copper clad, nickel/silver (sc), white gold (sc) lead/tin (solder. resin). SS (sc), mechanics wire, and a few other alloys. I found some pretty amazing stuff, especially with certain mixes.. When I use certain combinations of wire and certain networks, there are some REALLY neat changes... It thickens the sound, adds things that just aren't audiable before.. Again I must stress, A persons hearing is the key, it has to be good...at the least. Just like marksmanship, have to be able to see the target..right.... samo samo..Hearing, seeing... Lot of the time the individual can NOT hear the difference...Doesn't mean others can't.. Take care of the ears girls and guys..... NO hair blowing BASS shows...LOL Regards |
OP post
1. The skin effect is only an issue in high-frequency applications. 20kHz is the highest frequency that humans can hear. If we calculate the skin effect on a 12 AWG speaker cable like Gene from Audioholics does in this article, we find that the skin effect results in a loss of only -.014dB. Your speakers, room acoustics, and the human ear have a much larger effect on your sound than the skin effect. 2. Cable break-in Don’t be fooled - any company that claims this thinks they can trick you into hearing better sound after a month or two. “Break-in” is a commonly used term throughout the industry. It is the idea that the dielectric of a cable changes and aligns itself to the electromagnetic field of the signal traveling through the conductors.
The Truth is, maybe not the truth. As I got older I learned not to make statements without really listening.. Honestly, the crew your working with, can hear REALLY well? Do you have a reference point on "whos got the chops" "THE EARS" in the bunch.. Get hearing test done see who can actually hear well. START there.. No late night BASS parties, night before testing. 200.00 usd get a hear test done..or Group discounts? THEN the truth is, If you can't hear the difference in cabling you best stick to making BASS box cable, you admit bigger is better, so you're halfway there already. Now just make it pretty... I want to touch "CAN ONLY hear to 20kh". This is not an accurate statement. Some people have hypersensitive hearing, 24kh. I met one at Stanford. I have it also (20 + then), a blessing and a curse. Lives with noise suppression devices in his ears.. I was being fitted for the same..Quite a few Audiofilers have trained themselves and have GOOD ears...They also protect them.. THE EARS...
The same goes for those who can't hear well, I worked with a lot of mechanics that did not take care of their hearing (BASS HEADS). They were dashboard drummers, only because they couldn't hear it, they could only feel it. Breaking in, Cryo, and direction are hype... WOW, if you can't hear a difference in direction reversal after a breakin, stick to the bass cables, really. Cryo, I didn't believe, UNTIL, I ABCDed and found a difference. A good difference. Even handling a cable rough after treatment makes a difference..Not allowing static discharge on cable ends..Sealing ends when not in use... Secondly there are networks in cables and have been for a while. Reversal will put the inductor and HF networks at the wrong ends of the cable..What happens then? Could mess up the network? maybe. Why do my ears BLEED, when an interconnect (RCA) is backwards, or muddy just out of the box if there is no direction on it, (not cooked). 2-20 hours later the muddy or muffled sound clears up..usually, Alu/copper clad usually won't. Some will but never sound full, complete..FAT... I touched on just a couple of your statements.. I would urge you to do a LOT more research on you own, and LISTEN.
dragon1952179 posts04-02-2020 12:47pmshieldedaudio
Science can’t even explain how a freakin’ bicycle works yet. Since you’re so smart maybe you can.
" How Bicycles Work
I love the post.. The answer is simple. Has nothing to do with the bicycle.
It is the person that's on it. Bicycles don't stand on their own, and most people don't need a kickstands.. There are those that have lost the use of a body appendage, but are very stable.. Unicycle?? Tightrope walkers. heck a dog a bear and a chipmunk can ride a bike...LOL crack me up..
Respectfully and with regard to your forum.
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steakster993 posts04-06-2020 10:17am This esteemed professor totally missed the fourth scale of intelligence. "One who understands that he doesn’t know what is yet to be known." His arrogance leads him to believe that science has already discovered and explained everything. What nitwit! 😎 Ditto, 25 years of teaching, yet can’t practice what they preach, LEARNING. Sounds rather dense to me.. This thread is the epitome of youth, and those who didn’t take care of their ears, during youth, both synonymous. Those whom were born with less than perfect hearing. My hats off to you. I have family that were born deaf. But for those that refuse to LISTEN have adequate, good, or excellent hearing. What can I say, other than TEST yourself. and "To thine own self be true" and OTHERS, let me add. Psychoacoustics is VERY real, to prove OR disprove. That’s the part naysayers forget. "disprove". Being an old mechanic, you just have to know when to say "UNCLE". It’s ok to be wrong, or not know, To insist that everyone else be ignorant and or wrong as well, that is the issue, with folk like me. You can’t, so I can’t either...Crack me up. Eye for an Eye thing... The OP and those that agree, I hope your endeavor leads to a sound that YOU like, can enjoy, tap your foot to, GET up and dance, set down and sing along, or just turn it up. To you, ALL the good things that music does for me. Unfortunately I’m pretty sure I’d be looking for SHIP listening to some of these setups... Headphones turned ALL the way up..Wondering why you can’t tell the difference. The only thing left after your ears are blistered, is VOLUME...keep doing that and you won’t get that, volume. FACT, not MO. Only thing that goes on my ears are muffs or plugs..Not that earbuds, or headphones don’t have a place. I agree many folks just can’t hear..Keep making BIG fat bass cables, and itsy bitsy, RCA made with recycled soda cans. Works..... kinda.. Respectfully and with regard |
The quote is "One bad apple, spoils the whole barrel" One, not 75%, (and growing) with an edigicated HiFi community. The naysayers are in the vast minority not majority.. I agree with one thing. Cable prices do VARY, and so does quality..
Second Kool-aid refers to a sweet drink with poison in it..
Jonestown. The only poison here is the misinformation.
Magic Mushroom, different story.. No magic Kool-aid!
Poison kool-aid.
Magic mushroom.
Mushroom, maybe.
Kool-aid, NO!
"I don't know. so You CAN'T be right... Head in the sand group, I'm deaf group, Basshead group, all the same group..Can't hear, don't want to hear, it's all BS.. Crack me up!
Rule # 1 your only as smart as the technical information you have access to.
Lots of hype in the cable world, on both sides. I haven't heard of one maker of cables say, EVERYONE else is wrong, but, not only wrong,
but "Myths".
Roll another one, Dude!!!Calie rules! yea! Empty beer can smashed on forehead, WIND!!!, yea back to work man..How long was that, ahh DUNO!!! 3, 30, or 300 foot, seems a little long, exhale! Dude were out of # 16...Belch!!!
Respectfully and with some regard |
bobedwards10147 posts04-06-2020 11:04pm
That .47 picofarad bypass cap could only start affecting high frequency roll-off at well over 100 KZ. Which means it has zero effects on audible sounds!
A question, where did you come up with the numbers? 1000 pf starts a roll of at 18000. and stops at 22000, 6db roll off @ 8 ohms. .47pf, the . is in the wrong place, ay? I think it's 470pf , or .47uf not pf .47 pf is a little less than 1/2 a pf. I might be wrong, could you double check. The roll off then would be a 30-35 khz @ 8 ohms , unless there is an inductor/resistor before the cap.. Once again as the numbers (ohms) rise, the values DROP.. So if it's increased by a factor of 2 (inductor and or resistor before the cap, puts it right in place, at about 25 khz. So a 6db first order roll off would be from 22-27khz. The values in the network would have an effect. 1000pf or double (close) the value from 470, to 1000pf @ 4 (not 8) ohms. That stops the HF that kill, some folks ears, including MINE, the dog and the rabbit's. My speakers specks are 20hz to 25khz -0/+3, They are cut by me with "the cable", now. Before it was cut by an OXO. I wanted the OXO out of the signal path from 400hz up. "The cable" was the answer. It's not all snake oil, but not having to deal with HF ear bleeding, NOISE is all good with me..It's a blessing and a curse... The question is, "what would you do for better sound", "say it doesn't work", or give it a try... You had or still have MIT, great place to start...and finish, If you can't do your own... You say the cable failed?. Hook it up backwards, neg/pos reverse. That would cause the small network to fail, it becomes a LP filter with no chops (not big enough).. Resistor/cap HP. Cap/resistor LP filter.. Just a thought.. Regards |
You might try posting when sober, next time. Just a thought........
Sober as a Judge.. few decades now...Magic Kool-aid??
Do you actually read what others post? Keeps me rollin'
I don't know so you CAN'T know, I can't hear so you can't hear.
Same bunch..
Time to feed the chickens
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So the Golden Ear has the self-satisfaction of making his claim unfalsifiable, while being a position to denigrate anyone who "can’t hear what we Golden Ears hear!"
And round and round we go....
Well at least you got that part right..You can't hear it, so I can't possibly hear it. So your right and someone else is wrong...
You took long time to say it, and not very clearly I might add.
Golden ears? You mean hear thing well, concentrate, understand how
to change something you can or can't hear into something you can or cannot CHANGE.
Yea, I've met a few, that were taught the art, but some learn on their own
quite well I might add.. Some just can't hear the problems, simple..
I've done 100s of tweaks maybe 1000s. If it works it stays, if not it goes.
Works, goes in the "use it again pile" or not work and off to the neighbor I go. If I can talk him into it, he gets the tweak that doesn't work.
Cable risers... I started using them to make it easier to vacuum.
Better risers make it even easier to vacuum. Then I notice a difference, a BIG difference, I WAS getting the floor a lot cleaner.. LOL I use LPs some...
Vibration control and a lot of the LP tweaks are different, depends
on the set up.
I'm tired of saying regards, I'll say it anyways, it's po----lite, Regards
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What's with all the psycho, jarga?
Differences in cable sound, for crying out loud..
Myths or NOT....
Do we have to perform blind test? Not really. This is a forum for discovery, through trial and error, through personal experiences, from shared knowledge. I hope someone else did the work, so I can save some time.. I just want a ballpark of opinions, (including deleted ones) to form my own informed decision.
Psychology and honesty go hand in hand.. 'To thine own self be true".
Your saying a lot of folks are full of it. Ok your right.. Most have a propensity, to embellish the facts, truth, the finding...
That does not negate A CHANGE in perceived sound, just how much of a change, and what kind of change is the issue.
That's what most want to know.. The biggest problem, is being able to break it down in layman's terms, so I CAN UNDERSTAND..
Words matter, what we say, type, and think are ALL different...
The most important thing to me is "The Sound", communicating to others how I got there, seems to be one of he biggest problems on these forums. My ability to say what I mean, and others understand what I said....That's TOUGH..
From a background in very expensive maintenance. I never talked myself into believing, "THAT NOISE" went away. When it didn't.
Same thing, I didn't walk up and immagine noise either.
One thing I did notice through all the years, some people just can't hear, some people won't hear, some don't pay enough attention to hear. Then there are those, that hear EVERYTHING, including the neighbors snoring at night, in the house next door, through how many walls?? Golden Ears?
or Gladys Kravitz, DUNO...It still boils down to training yourself to discern the difference... Not easy, not subjective, it's a skillset...Much like any other...
Interesting conversation, BUT the claims, just crack me up, pro and con..
What is a Lead Head? Heavy for sure...
Respectfully and with regard
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OK what's a lead head?..
markum01106 posts04-08-2020 5:26pm
I put my budget speaker cables back in and said OMG! They sound like S#!T! I can't explain the science design or anything else regarding cable, but they do make a difference.
I have a question, did you let your old cables settle in and hook them up the way they came off (end for end) and left to right. Did you take the old ones off and drop them in a box or wrap them up taking care of the ends more so... Tape them up.. I ask because, that ALL matters a whole bunch. I'm sure there was a big change, I just wonder why... I have swapped cables, tore the old out, and the new went in. Swap back and the old sound BAD... didn't before.. Now I just lay the cables back, bag the ends, install the new and let it all settle.. If I choose to A/B the cables, it takes less than a couple hours, for the old to settle back in... I can dress up the cable mess AFTER testing is done... Works for me a lot better.... Regards... |
prof2,419 posts04-13-2020 9:22pm
But after starting with zip cord and moving on to try all the expensive stuff, once you come back to zip cord you’ll realize like Dorothy said "There’s No Place Like Home." :-)
I use zip, soow, sjoow, awg (PTFE), solid copper. There is a place for all of it. In my shop, it's wired with solid core wire, 40 years old in the wall. Works perfect for the environment. I have buried speaker cables (Soow 10/4), 75 foot runs, then UP another 20, 95 feet, under concrete slabs, held up for 45 years. Speakers changed but the wire stayed. Works great. Sounds great, speaker in every corner of a 75" sq ft slab 12 foot open walls. BUT when I concert, with a good system, it takes a good, well designed, tough set of cables. I've never spent a lot of money on cables, but I've spent a lot of TIME on cables (same thing).. Listened to others very spendy cables. Tried out quite a few, great cables, I just never had to pay for them. Zip cord.. Take care of those ears... Enjoy |
