How did you order?
I'm trying to get a pair of mission interconnects but I feel like I'm in email limbo and don't want to miss my chance to get a pair as I have a single opening in my system/am curious. |
Best bet is to give them a call.
I picked up 2 pairs if 1M b-stock Mission ic's @ $75 each.
A few weeks ago I also purchased a couple pairs of Wylde ic's for $99 ea. I got the Wylde since I run mono blocks and required separated runs (the Mission are single loom except for the cable ends where they break out into pig-tailed terminations).
I would also be in the market for Mission speakers cables bought I had just purchased a preowned pair of Auditorium 23's.
The Zu cables are terrific at these prices.
Regarding my Superfly's (just to qualify this post as per thread title) - have run them with various amps (Red Wine 30.2, Dignity Audio 300b monos, Monarchy SE100 Deluxe MkII) and my favourite is the Quad II Classic Monoblocks which seem to be optimized for the higher Z of the Superflys (16 ohm). Sound is rich, extended, detailed and very sweet. At my listening levels there's plenty of headroom.
I enjoy the Zu sound having previously owned 2 pairs of Druids.I think my previous favorites were the Druid Mk IV with upgraded tweeter and network (Mundorf silver/oil, Mills resistor, B3 cable loom) with original FRD. This variation had a slightly dark overall sound with a detailed yet smooth top end. With my Wyetech labs SET monoblocks the soundfield was very holographic. I did not care for the Druid MK IV-08 quite as much - just didn't seem as rich to me.
The Superfly produces more bass than either of the Druid variations with a more open and airy top end while preserving the richness (especially with the Quads) of my previous favourite Druid (same Mundorf network).
My audio nervosa finds me alternating the Superfly with Harbeth SHL5's (terrific with Dignity Audio 300b's) on a weekly basis. Two totally different presentations and can't choose one over the other so will keep both.
Harbeths are smooth, rich, deeply layered sound stage, very holographic with 300b's, incredible texture on voices (Mark Knopfler, Patricia Barber) with amazing palpability. They sound the way they look (rich Rosewood veneer). Pipe and slippers time? Maybe but absolutely full, balanced, non-fatiquing and gorgeous with my jazz/light pop playlist.
Appropriate partnering beverage - McWilliams Australian Shiraz.
Superfly is fast, more micro-detailed, upfront soundstage (less layered not quite as dimensional). Voices and individual instruments seem to separate and jump out for amazing realism and dynamics. Tonally full but not at the same level as the Harbeths. Appropriate partnering beverage - tequila Ceasar.
Just my thoughts on two great transducers with totally different presentations. Love them both and being a Gemini can't choose one or the other. Of course all comments relate to my specific room and partnering gear.
Regards,
Dave |
Dave,
Thank you for sharing your thoughts and experience. Well written and very insightful. If ever hot, exposed tubes become an issue in my house I will probably investigate the Quad IIs based on you and Phil's findings.
I have been extremely happy with the way my system is sounding driven by 845 tubes via a pair of Shuguang S845 MK monoblocks. It is hard to make these speakers sound bad, but from my experience this is the ultimate! Sound is sweet and fast while being harmonically developed and very dynamic. It also adds a little something special and romantic to the sound without being annoying and euphonic.
Phil is dead on in recommending 845 SET to drive Zu speakers and my only criticism of the pairing has nothing to do with SQ... Its heat output! These make my Atma-sphere S-30 seem cool running and put off far more heat than the Pass Firstwatts. |
Pardales, how is that Miniwatt working for u, thinking about getting one. Would not be able to run a sub from it though, like I do with the idecco & Totem Forest. I know nothing about tubes but I'm curious. I know, might not need a sub with the Superfly but i think a sub always makes a difference. Bob |
Gopher,
Can you compare the 845s sound to the sound of the Alephs and F1 or F1J that you have also paired with the Superflys? |
Magic. :)
My Chinese 845s are giving me a tonally beautiful yet vivid and exciting presentation thats just more holographic and beautiful. It may err a bit to the romantic side--not euphic/syrupy like the ST-70 I had but there is a certain magic to the presentation that makes for a more emotional listen.
My Atma-sphere S-30 came back from servicing today, its repaired and 100% and I listened for about four hours after work and it was impressive. Very transparant, dynamic and with some rolled tubes it did a nice job of tone and harmonic foundation--it also had pretty slamming bass. But for all its transparency and detail it doesn't have the magic and musicality I'm being spoiled with and I threw it up for sale on audiocircle. If it doesn't go in a day or two I'll move it here to the gon.
The Alephs are my favorite solid state option for the Souls so far. I described their merits in a prior post and stand by those impressions, but the bigger SET adds a certain reality and enjoyment I prefer to audiophile adjectives.
I've run these things with Class A SS, Class A SS transcunductance, Tripath, Class D, OTL, tube PP and SET. 845 SET is king to my ears. I don't have the vocabulary to convey the magic of the pairing like 213cobra has, but I'm very grateful he guided me this direction.
The amp juggling adventure was fun (and stressful at times), but barring catastrophe I'm done!
The major irony being, I was content with my sound initially, but wanted something cooler for the summer. These 845s make my Rawson amps feel like the cooler summer alternative. Its snowing outside and my damn windows are open 2 feet away from me! |
The Miniwatt works very well. One's room size and volume preference will largely determine whether this amp will work for you or not, with these speakers. I don't listen loud, so the Miniwatt delivers what I need. That said, I am now curious how the speakers will perform with a few more watts behind them.
I am going in the other direction as you and am looking into trying some SS amps on these speakers. |
As a Zu owner (Definition II), I concur with Gopher and 213Cobra regarding 845 amps. Owning Zu speakers without hearing them through an 845, you are really missing half of the equation to fantastic sound. I've owned a lot of different topology amps with the Zu's and the 845 is the key that unlocks the magic!!
David |
I hav heard Zu Owners say similar things about 300B amps. |
Recommending any amplifier (or other gear), strictly based on tube kind used in that design is very brave. |
Probably so--we'll qualify that with:
Decent 845 tubes;
competent design; and
reasonably good output transformers...
On a related note: Yes, I have heard similar things said about Zu speakers with 300B. Hell, 2a3 and 45 as well for the matter. I guess the common denominator is SET amplification. That said its hard to make these suckers sound 'bad'.
Still... I kinda wish I had my Fi 2a3 monos still, just to hear them on more sensitive, higher ohm speakers than the Abbys they drove. |
My recommendation of an 845 based amp was not meant to be controversial or a blind recommendation based on that specific tube. Common sense is still required if you pursue this combination and you should choose carefully. My intention is to help fellow Zu owners find a matching amp without throwing away a lot of time and money blindly searching. |
I have a pair of Soul Superflys on order and I really appreciate all of the posts and recommendations, set-up advice, etc., particularly Gopher and Phil whom I have exchanged a couple of emails with.
It will be interesting to see if my custom 4 1/2 wpc 421a SET amp will work for me in my smallish room, but if not, I have a lot of options based on all of the valuable information on this thread.
Thanks!
T.J. |
I'm sitting where Irish is sitting, except the speakers are the Omens and the amp is a DIY 2A3 SET. Speakers are not due to ship until end January, so it's fun to read these posts in the meantime, even if they're about a different Zu speaker.
My current speakers are Tekton Katz Meow and sound fantastic. The Zu's will either push the Tektons to a 2nd system, find a place in that 2nd system, or be sent back. We'll see. |
Just a clarification / expansion on the Aleph amps that Gopher / Fred has referred to. They are my amps out on loan to him. They are Aleph clones built by Tim Rawson: 70 to 80 wpc SS mono-amps that run in full Class A. Excellent amps that run very hot. The fact that he says they hold their own against these other fine amps tell you just how good they are. Some of the best SS I've ever heard. |
If anyone on or near Long Island, NY is contemplating buying a pair of Cosmic Carbon Superflys, please let me know.
Seeing the Superflys offered in Walnut and realizing they might actually fit in with a furniture scheme my wife would approve of has me desirous of working out some kinda swap finishes. |
Isnt that a kicker when they go and add a nice new finish like that? I just got an Ampino hooked up to my Superflys and am liking what I am hearing. |
Same. Walnut would have been perfect finish. Grrr. |
Incredible Experience!!
I finally have a pair of superfly. I have been following and commenting on this thread from the beginning- I was in line for the original deal but just didn't like the way they looked in the carbon, so I passed. Last week they had a "second" pair in latte for $1400 w/ shipping. I jumped.
Why incredible? Because many moons(more than 6) ago when I was a working musician in LA. I saw Neil Young and Crazy Horse at the Troubador in LA, a very small club. It was just before "Everybody knows this is nowhere" album was released and they played the whole album. Now the stage at the Troubador was tiny- 10' square if that. I was sitting center about 10 feet away,- you guessed it just about the distance from the superflys. So- First chord of Cinnamon Girl- Deja Vu and each cut after- deja vu all over again. I was back in LA. What the fuck?? Brilliant!
I have spent the last 5 days going thru all my guitar favorites, Rock, jazz, classical, flamenco-- hundreds of cuts. I say without reservation, the Superfly is the best transducer of guitar I have ever heard. The rest sounds pretty good too, I am hooked.
By the way, I am using an old el34 based golden tube integrated and a cheap samsung 3d dvd player. I'll report back when I hook them into my main rig.
The only thing that I can figure is that the driver size is so close to the typical guitar amp. I mean the guitar is palpably there in my room. No shit. The dynamics, the tone, are there. Wow. This hobby is major fun again. |
>>Superfly is the best transducer of guitar I have ever heard<<
Among hifi speakers, without a doubt. I'm a 42 year guitar player. Even in Druid 6 years ago, it was guitar reproduction that first made me pay attention to what Zu was up to.
Now, for a treat, rig a guitar cable to connect the output of a tube guitar amp to your Superfly. Mask the super tweet with thick cardboard or something & listen to that FRD as primary guitar speaker...
Phil |
Ha, Phil are you sayin' my 50 year old D'Angelico never sounded so good as being played back through a pair of Zu's? Oh my, think of the money I could save combining guitar needs with audio needs. Only on AG! |
I wonder it we could get them to make custom guitar amps in those awesome finishes!!! |
Coltrane,
(I can't help but think of "The Royal Tennenbaums" starting with that salutation...) First, a half-century D'Angelico will sound fab through a plastic computer speaker, but that wouldn't nearly do it justice! You're a fortunate dude. But yes. Try it with one speaker before a pair, and via a tube guitar amp. The combination of speed and tone density from the Zu FRD beats a 12" guitar speaker except for someone wanting cone breakup -- the Zu driver is too hard to drive into that condition. My Archtops, solid bodies, 335s and all my amps gain tone through the Zu FRD, and if you leave the super tweeter unmasked on a Druid or Superfly, it makes a great speaker for an acoustic guitar amp.
I keep my living room hifi relatively uncluttered, but my secondary Druids system has both hifi SET monoblocks and a couple of tube guitar amps in close proximity at all times.
Phil |
Phil you're crackin' me up! I can see the marketing genius of it all now. Hey you guitar player's, if you really want to give that Les Paul a modern twist, hookup that 50 year old Fender Deluxe Reverb to a pair of Zu Superfly's. OMG, where is Curtis Mayfield when we need him?! :) |
Hifin, now you're talking. Talk about an idea whose time has come! I'll take two of those in a tobacco sunburst please, and ya better gimme a second pair in a flamin' maple to match my Gibson archtop. HA! |
Can someone whos heard both tell me the diference, soundwise ,between Superfly and Omen Def. |
Wow. More changes at Zu Audio. Another website coming and they have a new logo. Not sure whether to laugh or cry...!
Enjoying the Soul Superfly nonetheless. |
So this must be one hell of a speaker for rock? |
It's great for rock and everything else! I had some people over the other day and played them some White Stripes "Icky Thump" and then put on Micheal Jackson "Off The Wall"on vinyl. Wow! They were shellshocked, couldn't believe records could sound like that. These things do power, tone and pace like no other speaker I have heard. Also great with blues(my fave), jazz and classical. The Gladiator soundtrack on vinyl is scary good! |
Where is everybody? How are all those burned in Superflys sounding? Still waiting on mine from BF! |
Rockn - I'm loving mine with my Eastern Electric M520 through the 16ohm taps. I have somewhere around 175 hrs on them and they sound better each day with depth of sound and overall detail improving along the way. They are extremely dynamic and lively and that 'aggressiveness' in the beginning is no longer apparent. I was concerned the FRD would have some colorations that I wouldn't be able to live with, but that has not been the case at all.
The Zu speakers have been eye opening for me. The dynamics and 'live' sound are addictive and I feel much less like I'm playing a recording and more like I'm re-creating a musical event in my living room.
Though now I am wondering how they sound with SET amplification . . . |
Secretchimp99 - Awesome! thats what I like to hear. Mine were delayed because I opted for the walnut finish with black trim which should look spectacular. Speaking of SET amps, I'm curious too. Never owned a tube anything except my idecco which isn't the same. I've been reading good things about Decware amps & think it could be a good match but we'll see after I've had them awhile. Thanks for posting & keep em coming. |
Secretchimp-99 That liveliness you describe is exactly how I feel about the Omen Defs that I have and that "the band is playing in the living room" is my favorite audiophile term:). I would love to have an A/B comparison of the two. How would you describe your soundstage? Mine is definitely very large and very deep. It is as if it is deep behind the speakers.....as if I were sitting like 20-30 rows back at a show.
I will have a 300B Set amp coming soon.....anyone in the Bay Area? |
Morganc - The Zus definitely have an 'alive' presence and that's the quality that makes them keepers in my system. As for soundstage, my room is 15'x15' and the speakers are probably not ideally placed for depth. They flank our fireplace and are just a few feet out from the back walls. But I am hearing some depth now as they are breaking in which I didn't before and the soundstage is getting very large. Sometimes it's startling when a vocal comes in(lead or backing, in addition to what is an already very full sound and it's still well defined and placed. So I have zero complaints in that area -- it works for me.
Previously I had a pair of Spendor S5es which I enjoyed but comparing them to the Superflys, they sounded dull and lifeless. Not a knock against the Spendors(I still have a high opinion of them)it's just that they sound like speakers reproducing music and the Zu's sound like music. I had an audiophile buddy over and he preferred the Zu's by a large margin and commented that the British speakers midrange sounded 'sucked out' in comparison to the Zu's and I think he was hearing the rich, dense tonality presented by the Zu FRD.
The Omen Definitions might be a bit too much for my smaller room as I'm sure they would like even more 'breathing room' than the Superflys however they sound like a great fit for your listening space. I'm also curious how the two compare as I haven't seen many comments. Post your impressions of the Omen Definitions with 300bs -- curious to know.
Rockn - Man, I'm jealous! Walnut wasn't an option when I ordered mine -- I'm sure those are going to look as great as they sound! I know next to nothing about SET amplification but I've been impressed by the little that I've heard. Wonder what folks would think of a Bottlehead Stereomour 2A3/45 paired with the Superflys? The kit is $750 which seems like a great way to hear and learn along the way too. |
My wife bought a pair at the RMAF. We now have them set up with both a vintage (NOSValves Modified) Scott 299D tube integrated amp and a Peachtree Nova and they are really sounding sweet. Took a bit of time to break in but even out of the box they are extremely dynamic. Complete thumbs up! |
I got mine about 2 weeks ago. Driving it with an Atmasphere S30. Pretty amazing combo after about 30 hours of break in. Great definition and transparency. Even though my current digs don't allow for optimal placement, soundstaging and imaging are outstanding. Leading edge transient information is outstanding. Brass has that bite that you hear when live. Drums and cymbals have that snap and sparkle. Bass definatly goes down to at least the mid 30's in my room with great definition and speed of the leading edge of the bass notes making it very easy to follow bass lines. Music has great pace and drive that draws you into the music and lets you forget about all the hifi stuff. Even my non- audiophile wife said wow.
I don't know everything that's out there but I'm hard pressed to think of a better speaker for $2800.
BTW, my pair is in Ferrari red, purchased at a discount on Zu's Black Friday sale. They are gorgeous. If you can spring for it I highly rec. the high gloss finish of your choice.
|
Well, my matte black Soul Superfly arrived on Wednesday. Let them sit for three days until my dealer could get out and solder some spades and set them up. Really did Littld more than set up and listen.
Will report back at a later date but it is already obvious that they are, as I anticipated, keepers.
Mike |
I wonder how these speakers would compare with my Klipsch RF-7? I would be driving them with a Cayin A88t with 16 ohm tap. Anybody compared the sound to klipsch? |
How does the Presence/Def2 pan out next to the SSF Def.? |
Superfly's on the way! All because of u guys. Never heard of them until I came across this thread. Dam u guys! |
I didn't want to speak too soon and announce landing on a setup that was "perfection" for my tastes, but I've given it a few weeks now and the desire to amp roll is done.
For the guys who tuned into my amplifier rolling adventures, I have finally settled on a pair of Shuguang S845 MK monoblocks driven by a Shindo Auriege-L preamplifier.
Shindo/845/Zu is one deeply musical, beautiful combination! |
that sounds like an incredible combo, gopher, congrats! |
My 60 days with the Superfly will be up on the 18th of March. Been interesting so far. They're on the back of Naim pre/power and the break in had been slow but steady up until last week. Prior to that they were powerful; lacking a little detail at the very top end; lovely at low volume and the vocals were what I can best describe as distant. They sat very much behind the sound stage and were a little cuppy. Doubtless some of this was because my dealer plonked 'em down; spiked them up and advised to leave well alone to burn in before attempting to position them.
Early decision was that they were keepers without a shadow of a doubt.
Last Sunday/Monday vocals began to come very much on song and detail began to ooze through in large quantities. Then, the decorator arrived!!!
Fairly confident he's not destroyed anything but fair to say that bass power has all but disappeared. This is being attributed to a signIficant drop in temperature. Had some bass back Friday but lacking again today. Have been lacking some upper mids all the way through, possibly as the spikes were set quite high.
So, thought this was the moment to lower the spikes to see if I could re-ignite the burn-in and the bass and maybe up the upper mids. Unfortunately, if I lower the spikes as recommended by Zu there ain't enough thread for the nuts so I've left them be. However, after 5 days I'm beginning to want some actual bass back. Decorator had done by Wednesday so temperature has been normal again since Thursday. Can't believe how much bass I've lost. Unlistenable on occasions. Shrill and horrid.
Anyone else had similar with Zu burn in? I mean it's a quite dramatic loss. There is bass there but it's like a large radio on occasions. |
Well, I've had mine for approx. 6 weeks. Plenty of bass. No issues like you mention. Wonder if something happened to the Grewe loading?
Would definately call Zu to discuss.
Sorry couldn't be more help |
Can you elaborate about:
".....Then the decorator arrived...." ?
Phil |
I had dramatic burn-in for weeks and weeks and I thought too for a few days that I had lost my mind! How many hours do you have on them? I would recommend 400 solid hours as a minimum. I would also comment that the positioning is critical for bass especially as well as amplifier matching. I do not know Naim at all other than knowing they have a great reputation, but it is SS correct? The Superflys are designed with tube amplification in mind, unless I am mistaken as sometimes happens.
The Superflys I auditioned where not picky with positioning, the sound stage was out in front, engaging, and for lack of a better term, Intimate. They were paired with a Quad tube amp using KT-66 tubes. |
Phil,
When I say the decorator arrived I simply mean I was having some of the house painted. He had doors and windows open all day so a big temperature drop. Didn't work in the living room at all but had the door open and did go in for a listen each morning as he's a big music fan and into hi-fi too. Can't believe he's done driver damage for example as presumably a lot more than bass would have gone. He certainly hasn't moved them and I should be clear, there is bass there but it's nowhere near what it was.
Yes Naim is SS but they work incredibly well with Zu and prior to getting Superfly I'd heard Druids, Essence, Presence and Definitions on Naim. Have been talking to Avonessence on this and he reckons burn-in can be quite erratic having had Druids and Essence and he found it especially so on the Druids. He thought the temperature drop may be of some significance. I'm deliberately not moving them until I have plenty of hours on them. Been doing 10 hours a day on medium volume since mid January so they've probably got 200-250 hours on top of the factory hours.
Can't see how it can be the bass loading. Would have to have gone on both speakers at once and as I said it has been accompanied by the loss of cuppy vocals and a gain in detail so it's not like the FRD has gone silent.
Further thoughts?
Mike
Any other thoughts. |
The missing bit from my previous posts was that I don't think the positioning is an issue for the bass. Prior to this week it was just fabulous. There was a lack of upper mids and that was it.
Mike |
The missing bit from my previous posts was that I don't think the positioning is an issue for the bass. Prior to this week it was just fabulous. There was a lack of upper mids and that was it.
Mike |
It's not my experience that Zu break-in is anything other than progressive and uni-directional. That is, it's a one-way street with no backtracking wih the singular exception of significant thermal changes.
Zu itself has had the experience of doing 200-400 hours of intense factory break-in only to ship speakers from Utah in the winter months and have them arrive sounding stiff and not broken in. Sean has contended in the past that break-in of the internal cabling (especially the dielectrics) is actually more of a factor than limbering of the driver, but cold exposure can make the driver break-in paramount. I'm in Southern California, so I probably don't have the same range of temperature swings as you, even if I left my windows and doors wide open for weeks. If nothing else changed, I have to guess this is your issue, and it will be temporary. Also, if you are using vinyl, the same thermal factors can truncate bass response of a phono cartridge, too. Assuming nothing has happened to your amplification, it seems a temporary problem associated with an environmental change that a hundred hours of any band using a large Marshall stack can overcome.
Phil |
