Thanks Phil,
I'm using cd so fewer issues there but you are right re: temperatures. Mine shipped Utah to UK in January and they were cold. From cold they did the Druid thing of giving you the sense of pushing air on horns, and drums were on their way to Definition levels but it took about a week before I began to think "Wow!".
Decorators went Wednesday so we've been on repeat since then and I've had the heating at ambient leveles all day this weekend. I reckon that since mid-January I've put 200 hours on during the day when I've been at work and maybe another 40 or 50 on top. It was going so well but this us a horrid shock. Like having a large transistor radio. There is bass there but even on say Night Nurse by Gregory Isaacs it is taut and recessed rather than taut, deep and powerful. I'm giving it until midweek before I panic.
Incidentally, to save me reading 11 pages of this (which I have done previously thanks) how do you get the gap to just above the width of a cd? I have no spike thread at that point. Mine are set by my dealer at just over the depth of two as there is then thread. Before anyone suggests this has an impact on bass and could explain what's happened I should say I've had four weeks of increasingly heavenly bass so it seems unlikely. It may be contributing to my lack of upper mids but the detriment to bass seemed minimal. Until Tuesday it was the best bass I've ever had.
Mike |
"Incidentally, to save me reading 11 pages of this (which I have done previously thanks) how do you get the gap to just above the width of a cd?"
You do mean the width of a standard CD case, right? |
|
If I am not mistaken the requirements for floor to speaker gap with the Superfly is different from that of the druid as the pyramid shaped cartridge and finger slots at the bottom of the cabinet performs the bass tuning . Do not have manual with me , but I believe the only requirement re the cabinet to floor gap is that it allows proper function of the griewe loading system. Is it possible that you have lowered the cabinet too close to the floor interfering with the bass loading system ? |
If the SF is like the Omen, the manual says as long as you can slide a standard CD case between the speaker and the floor you're fine.
If you're using the carpet spikes I believe the gap will be greater than 1 case, but the way I interpret the instructions that is OK. If you use the bare floor studs and not the carpet spikes you can get the gap lower than 1 CD case (on bare floor) up to more than 2 cases.
FWIW - I found that gap to be a pretty big adjustment knob. I have my Omens on boards with the carpet spikes. |
Can slide two CDs under the speakers. Definitely not too low. As stated previously, too high if anything. I thought Phil Cobra had something to say about this. Also, as said previously, I had the bass and then it went. Nothing changed beyond temperature. |
The loading on the bottom of the speaker is critical IME. If incorrect, you simply are not getting all the bass the speaker has. |
How much do the superfly weigh? I'm pretty sure my box can power them real good. Just need to find a carry harness and save for some ic's and i might be shelling out the cash. |
Whew! Finally finished reading all 11 pages of this thread. Took 4 days!
Jslate, your preference for the Superfly's over the sttaf's and Model-1's, could you elaborate? Before I started researching Superfly's, these two Totems were in high contention for me. Could you give me a comparison on how they differ? And why you prefer them? Or anyone else experienced with Totems that now have Superfly's (Rockn, did you get yours yet)? I have heard the Model 1 and was very impressed with them many years ago, but would prefer a lower bass extension, and a speaker that would perform well at my late night, low-level listening levels when the rest of the fam is asleep, and they need to rock once in awhile. My music consists of mainly rock/pop/adult contemporary. |
One thing is sure- you won't have any troubles getting a set of ZUs to rock. Totems on the other hand- all the ones I have heard have needed a lot of power to get going, but once they did have that power, they did quite well. Overall though the ZUs will have a greater dynamic range. |
Troy, I've had my Superfly's for almost a month & I couldn't be happier. Sound is very dynamic, clean & detailed. I'm a big Totem fan, having owned the Model 1 & now the Forest, so clean dynamic sound is what I'm after & the Zu's have it in spades! As far as low level listening, I'm listening to Radio Paradise on my Squeezebox Touch right now through my Peachtree ideeco with the volume at about 7 o'clock with 6 being off & it sounds full & detailed..awesome! If u want to rock like I do sometimes, volume at 11 or 12... u better close the doors & windows. These speakers r like Totems on steroids! Must be the 10" full range driver. BTW a lot that is said in these forums is true as far as break in & placement. Mine r still breaking in, maybe 300 hrs & getting better. Played around with toe in & once u find the right spot & they lock in you'll know it! |
Atmasphere is right about the Totems needing power. When I had the Model 1, I was running them with a big Aragon amp & they were fantastic. Same with the Forest. This full range thing is a whole new game & I'm diggin it. Down the road I will be trying some tube amps, which is recommended. Another big tweak... can't wait! |
Looks like some big new things are going on at Zu... new website and new speakers announced it appears.
Definition MKIII and a $31,500 number called "Experience". Sadly, it looks like the Soul Definition is no longer in the works. A darn shame as from emails with their former CEO it sounded like its pricing wasn't going to be much higher than the Soul Superfly. He'd also promised to send me out a pair for amateur review... doh!
Soul Supefly's pricing is up to $3750 now and it appears the standard Soul isn't an option... I'm also seeing an Essence bookshelf for $4k.
Actually... hmm, it looks like the prices of everything have crept up. Even the standard Omen is up to $1875 which is more than the Standard Soul was supposed to be....
Interesting....
Hmm... for that matter, it appears the standard Soul isn't an option anymore |
Thanks for the important Totem info, it helps alot! Rockn, your description of the Superfly's low-level listening was perfect, and is what I was hoping to hear.
-BTW, Tone Audio just released a review for the Superfly's.
Gopher, I see on their new website that they are $3000?
Could any of the Superfly owners describe their soundstaging - Imaging, size, palpable presence, ambient hall resolution, etc? I can find very little info on these aspects and I like me some good imaging and immersive soundstaging. |
Troy,
refer to the comparison pdf to see what I got that pricing. Lists all models including the new def 3.0s and experience and their retail pricing. |
Yeah, saw it 5 minutes after posting. They have two different prices in their website? I have emailed them for some more info.
Gopher, how would you say the off-axis characteristics are? When you stand up or move your head around, is there a major shift in things? |
I'm pretty sure that is the export price (look on the left of the chart)....I am pretty sure that they have made a bit of an error.
And my guess on the Superfly Defs is that the Def mkiii was chosen instead. It will have the same drivers as the Superfly, and an even better upgraded Tweeter, same silver internal wiring. It would probably sound very similar, and yet the Def mkii had such a big following, that it probably makes more business sense to go that route....but that's just a guess:-) |
I've been researching my next speaker upgrade for so many months now, it's not even funny. After all was said and done, and the dust had cleared, the only one left standing, was the Soul Superfly - thanks to alot of helpful info on this thread. I ordered them through Sean over the phone. He is an awesome guy to deal with and really took the time to figure out what would work for me, by explaining the strengths and weaknesses of his different models. I'm also going to try their Mission speaker cables. Lookin forward to it! Thanks to all who contributed to this thread to make it a valuable source. |
Nice Troy. Congrats man. Please get back with us with what you think as it is nice to hear what works and doesn't work with the Superfly's. What sources are you going to use? |
Welcome to the club Troy! Definitely keep us posted. U won't be disappointed. Sold my Totems last week, they served me well & I enjoyed them for years, but these Superflys are definitely a step up. Looking for a tube amp to work with my idecco. Decware seems to be in my price range at the moment. I also have the mission cables on the way. To think that these can sound better with a few upgrades is hard to imagine... but I can't wait! |
Holy crap. Have you guys read the 2010 Q4 entry in the company history part of their page?
Zu hires “venture capitalist” Kristian Pettengill as CEO, hired to develop Zu’s business and position it for outside capitalization. Unknown to Sean, Adam and the core of Zu, Kristian is moving Zu down a road where Kristian benefits but at the expense of Sean, Adam and Zu. Kristian Pettengill establishes terms with all suppliers, moving Zu from being cashed based to accrual. And having fiduciary and business responsibility Kristian unilaterally doubled the new accountants salary, tells her not to pay suppliers, and further instructs her not to bother Sean and Adam with these details. All core Zu people are distracted, kept very busy training and coordinating all the new hires and product production—included Sean and Adam. All core people are working insanely long days trying to keep up with fourth quarter sales, on top of everything else. Kristian focus on revenue and pays no attention to profit, running obscene discounts on products, damaging Zu value and leveraging short term cash flow. Kristian Pettengill falls short on all responsibilities and promises. Adam and Sean are noticing big problems with the running of the Zu 13-days of Christmas promo and ask for a complete review of position, he is laid off. Zu agreed that K.P. could go to the CES show in Las Vegas to follow through with his “meetings with likely investors.” Two days before the opening of CES in Las Vegas, Kristian Pettengill is gambling with new creative hire Chuck Williams, playing $2,000 hands at the blackjack table; Adam and Sean see unauthorized transfers in Zu’s bank account, learning later that Kristian has sweet talked his way back into the account. Sean and Adam realized they have a big problem, that Kristian has not positioned Zu for funding, likely has no potential investors, and has not built a credible business plan. Kristian Pettengill is fired the day before the start of the show. Ron, Simon, Chuck, Sean, Adam, experience the longest show of their lives, realizing that under Kristian Zu had gone from being in the black to being upside down several hundred thousand dollars.
THAT explains quite a bit of the bizarre sales strategy... |
Thanks for the kind words guys.
Morganc, My source right now isn't ideal for the Superfly's (Cary/Dared tube pre and B&K 200.2 amp), but I've been planning a upgrade/change on these anyway in the near future. I know that the Superfly's sound best with all tubes, but frankly I've grown tired of messing with them. I want something with less maintenace, less noise and a remote control, and easier and safer for my family to operate when I'm at work. I spoke to Sean over the phone about this, telling him that I wasn't in love with the idea of going all tube again and he started recommending the Omen Def, with my current equipment, since it's designed to be more SS freindly. But after I told him I was going to be switching down the road anyway, and that I was targeting the Virtue Audio 901 Sensation w/tube buffer, he changed his tune. He told me that he has heard this exact combo at a show with Seth (designer of the Virtue amps) and he was amazed at how good it sounded. He said it bettered the Krell and Levinson reference equipment they had with them. Sean said they have some non-tube Virtue amps at the Zu shop that they mess around with and they sound a little colder and a little sterile without the tube. The added tube seems to make things come together and adds the sweetness that these speakers like. It seemed to be one of the few SS amps he would recommend for the Superfly's. He thought I would be very pleased with this combo.
I'll let you guys know... |
"Holy crap. Have you guys read the 2010 Q4 entry in the company history part of their page?"
Hi Gopher, yes I have read this, and it takes some serious guts for a company to be so open about what has gone on.
For me it just makes me proud to own their products, it is a breath of fresh air to have such honesty in the industry.
James |
Gopher, Whew, that's tough! While at first being surprised that they would lay it all out there like that, I realize that by the end of the page, I find myself only feeling sorry for them that it happened. So maybe it was the right way to explain things? And, the build-up of history also lets you put into perspective that - companies having growing pains. This isn't their first one, and probably won't be their last one, but they've proven before that it won't stop their dedication to continually put out new and innovative products because it's their passion. And whoever has talked to Sean on the phone would know it. He exudes it. |
I Agree.....that is a nice honest gesture to clear the air and explain some of the crazy pricing strategies over the last 6 months. I'm glad I got mine when I did, but I know this company will be just fine.....they are honest, committed to excellence, hard working, devoted, and not just feeding the world a different lie everyday as some in this business have done ALa Shady Shifter. It's called growing pains, and the thing a successful company does when problems arise is fire the trouble makers ASAP and move on. I'm loving my Zu's and will likely buy more in the future. Sean and Adam are always a pleasure to talk to. |
Well boys and girls I bought the SSF for a friend. He is buying my AS S30 amp.
We now need to buy the source. I need help with buying a Hrz Dac for 2K that can go direct into the amp. The Dac will run with a MM.
Any thoughts? |
I'm currently using a Cayin A88t amp on some klipsch RF-7 but these Souls sound interesting. Do you guys think I would have a good Combo with the Cayin/ZU and do you think it would be an upgrade over the klipsch? |
Glory, I would look at the Wyred4Sound or Eastern Electric DACs. Gopher had the Eastern DAC an S30 and the Superflys in his system, but not sure if he ran the DAC straight to the Atma. |
I was actually using an Eastern Electric Minimax preamplifier with Tom Tutay mods when you heard my rig (and took home the s30). I never did try driving it directly and now that my Eastern Electric DAC is moded and I had the volume pot disabled, I don't really have the option to experiment.
Knowing how Atma-sphere gear sounds and particularly with Superflys, I don't think I'd recommend driving it directly--I definitely think an active preamp is in order. |
Mike (Mahughes),
I've been buried in work and away from here for weeks. How are you doing with the re-break-in of your speakers after cold weather shipping?
With Superfly, variances in the floor gap are far less critical than with Druid, which was the point of the full Greiwe implementation via internal pyramid and "finger vents" on the underside of the cabinet. What's your progress?
Phil |
Hi Phil,
Apologies for the delayed response and thank you for your continued interest. I too have been away from here but for slightly different reasons. Had eye surgery on 9th of March and have had to let them settle at their own pace post-op. This week I am attempting computers for the first time in a month having mastered a certain amount of time on my iphone; a certain amount of reading and a certain amount of TV before the eyes protest. So, doing this on a PC with the VDU specs on. Zooming up a bit in Firefox but eyes still not 100% happy so bear with me on spelling and length etc. but this is a test for my eyes as well as my posting ability. Anyway......
Despite the reintroduction of normal UK Winter/Spring temperatures the Superflys have shown little inclination to bass or mids since the temperature drop thanks to the decorators. As they were burning in nicely (and I trust my decorator as both a friend and fellow audiophile/music fan) before the temperature drop, I continue to assume no technical problem with the speakers themselves. The bass WAS there. It was not spectacular but the original gap we started with was around the depth of 2 CD jewel cases and may have been responsible for that. On start up they were lacking some upper mids in the opinion of Avonessence and I could hear this after a while but the high frequencies were all there and clearly coming on song. What was also there from the start was a lack of the usual Zu mids to some degree but very much (although not entirely) initially compensated by some of the best dynamics I have ever heard. Both my dealer and I may have missed the bass and mids issue to begin with as initial setup was very basic and there was perhaps too much standing and not enough sitting at the listening position.
I had noticed some loss of output from the right channel before the decoration (which to remind other readers was in the rest of the house but not the listening room). I haven't measured it but my room is about 16' by 12.5' and fully carpeted. The carpet is neither expensive, new or lush. There is a plasma and fireplace between the speakers and a picture behind glass on the opposite wall. The right speakers is marginally further away from a sidewall than the left as the left has CD shelves on it. The speakers fire down the room toward a 2 seater sofa but there is also a sofa on the right wall and between this and the right Superfly is my stack of Hutter Racktime with all my Naim boxes on it. These go 7 shelves high. When I had Epos ES11s in place any attenuation of output because of either the sofa or the rack was not noticeable at all, especially with toe in. The Superflys wider dispersion has thrown the issue into stark relief though even with a toe in that allows me to see a sliver of the inside wall of the speakers.
Taking a methodical approach I first attempted to lower all 8 spikes to a depth of one CD jewel case. To my surprise I noted that the spikes provided by Zu do not actually allow for this in the sense that there's then no thread for the nut to be tightened on. I have yet to query this with them as I suspect they have bigger fish to fry at present.
A quick call from Avonessence provided a different set of spikes that did allow for this and the speakers have both been set at a height that allows you to slide a CD under, albeit that it's a tight fit.
An initial increase in bass occurred. On extended listening I wouldn't describe this as spectacular but it is certainly there and it is frequently enough. What I think is really missing here is the mids and, with that, much of the remaining bass.
Power is via a Musicline Powerigel with one Naim Powerline being used on the power amp after much experimentation back in the Epos era.
Both Avonessence and I are aware that Druids et al were happier with the removal of Naim power cables (and often power supplies) so the Powerline was removed. This produced a clear improvement in coherence (Mrs. H. making smiley faces at this point and indicating that she's finally convinced and they can stay) but at the expense of a much more compressed sound and the loss to my ears of the best dynamics I've ever had in my room.
Next task is to split the Hutter. A second base is on order via my dealer. That should do several things.
1) Balance up the speaker outputs and enable me to reset the pre-amp balance (a Naim 202) to centre again.
2) Reintroduce some dynamics lost when the Naim Powerline was removed. There must be some loss of dynamics when one speaker is not dispersing sound down the room as the other one is allowed to.
3) Assess the extent to which the sofa down the long wall may also be having any effect. However, it's not like there is anywhere else practical for this sofa to go!
There may also be some repositioning of speakers but my inclination at the moment is to leave them be and see how we do once these other variables have been addressed.
I may take the opportunity to rebuild the system with just the bare CD player, pre and power and then compare what happens as we add power supplies. Zu speakers work wonderfully with Naim gear (who was it who posted about the Superfly and their Supernait singing?) but drastically reduce the impact of separate power supplies as used by Naim. That isn't to say that there's no need for them but more that there's less sense of a true box upgrade and more of a sense of each box being a slight tweak. Different rather than better.
I am working on the basis that the best sound I have heard in recent years was Druids on the end of (not) my (actual) CD, pre and power with one Naim Powerline at my dealers. If I can get that then I am happy.
I'm hopeful that addressing practical issues methodically will get me there in the end (he says optimistically!!!). However, it may that although I have kept the UK side of Zu informed on this, I approach Sean et al for further advice.
That said, any advice you kind people can offer here will be appreciated.
Thanks,
Mike
PS: If Avonessence et al now come on here and mention valves you need to know that my fingers are in my ears (and no, that doesn't explain the lack of mids :)) |
V****s - Would I mention that here to you, no way, I have got text and email to do that directly. Hee Hee
I can see you in a nice cardigan, tarten slippers and smoking a pipe handling a big round black disk whilst you are bathed in a soft orange glow in your future
Our well know dealer is slowly coming to see the "glow" :D |
Egrass21, I have a Cayin A55t on the way. My first tube amp. I'll let u know how it sounds with my Superflys. |
Signs of life.
Hmm, things getting very interesting with my hitherto unimpressive Superflys.
My dealer split my Hutter Racktime but, in the process of reconnecting my system, we managed to achieve total silence! Long story short - the problem was a Burndy cable connecting my Naim CDX2 to its XPS2 power supply. Cable heading for repair whilst CD player now powered up without it.
Now, I've already experienced the phenomena whereby Zu speakers like, nay love, less Naim boxes so I wasn't too unhappy with trying this. Indeed, before things went silent my dealer was intending to try reducing my 7 boxes to 3 to see what happens. However, I also believe in one thing at a time. So, given that the Hutter has just been split and the CD player has lost a power supply, I'm happy to sit tight for a few days and feel my way toward assessing the differences.
First thoughts?
1) The Hutter was definitely impacting on the output of the right speaker in terms of bass, mids, dynamics and coherence.
2) I'm not sure the output is completely balanced as the sofa on the long wall may still be impacting but sound from TV and CD has immediately improved in terms of dynamics and detail. Bass has also improved and imaging is much more central. Too early to say if the improvement is enough but it is obvious.
3) Some of the above may also be the loss of a CD player power supply. It's remarkable how dynamics and detail have improved despite the loss of a box that would normally improve both. Gonna live with it for a week or so and then remove the power supplies from the pre and see what that brings.
Listened to more in the past 24 hours than the past 2 weeks, which rather speaks for itself. Will report back as we progress further. |
Wow. Just began an audition of the Superflys with my Atmasphere S-30 (thanks again Gopher!). Wow. I had heard the combo in Gopher's system when I bought the S-30s off of him, but damn to hear these speakers in my own system and room with equipment I am intimately familiar with is another thing. What a great pairing. Damn...
More detailed impressions to come. But for now, just "Damn." As in "Damn good." |
And then the Hi-Cap came off the pre (202) and lo, mid-band warmth of the kind that IME only Zu do suddenly starts to appear.
In the process I've lost a little air and detail around the instruments but gained some slam and finally get to hear that characteristic Zu sound coming from my Superfly. Another way of describing this is to say that we've gone from hi-fi to music. Going to live with this for a week and then see what happens when I pull out the Musicline Powerigel and put stock cables back in.
So, downgrading seems to be the way to go! :) |
Awesome, Roscoe!
Did you ever swap the 6SN7s from the stock Sov? I really hated those tubes and was not happy to be using them in the pre to show my rig. |
Hey Fred,
Yes, I am running some Sylvanias in back and Tung-sols up front at present in my S-30.
Still adjusting to the Soul Superfly's sound in my system. A bit on the forward side at present, would be my main concern. My speakers were floor samples, so not sure how broken in they were. But will see how they change (or I adjust) over time.
I will also be playing around different DACs and some RCA tubes to see how they might affect things. |
Gopher, you and I are on the same page with the Sovtek 6SN7s. We've not used them in over 12 years. Are they what were in your S-30 when you had it?? |
Hi Roscoeii,
Everything that you change will make a difference, which is a blessing and a curse with these speakers, as they just keep getting better and better over time!
And yes, they will likely keep breaking in for a while......what is the rest of your system? |
I have an Atmasphere S30 Mk II (with jumpers to reduce the gain), a Musical Fidelity kW preamp and a Weiss DAC2(=Minerva). Think I will try out some different DACs soon: Tranquility, Rega and maybe the Hegel HD2. If I keep these, selling the Weiss will help offset the cost of the Superflys... |
I would love to hesr your impressions......I love the Tranquility and Zu synergy. It is amazing. |
What I was trying to say is that they have amazing synergy, Superflys or Omen Defs with the Tranquility. Liquid smooth, huge soundstage, great detail, with no digital edge or brightness at all........but I have not compared it to any of the big dawg DAC's. |
Will certainly let you know. Should be able to compare the Tranq sometime early next week. |
Did anyone here get the chance to compare the Soul Superfly to the standard Soul? Zu is closing out 20 Standard Souls in the beautiful Walnut finish for $999...
If I had the cash to leave it in storage for a while, I'd buy it to put in my next living room with my Redgum integrated and move the cosmic carbon Supeflys into a dedicated space.
Hard to rationalize buying speakers to store at the moment, but dang... |
Well, I couldn't resist the deal, so I called Zu and ordered a pair of standard Souls. Sean was very friendly and accommodating.
These have the same driver complement as the Omen (12 ohm rather than the 16 ohm driver used in the Superfly), with the more complexly shaped box. I asked if he would upgrade the cap to match that used in the Superfly (Mundorf Silver/Oil) and he was happy to do that for a very reasonable fee.
Now, we wait.
Bob |
Very interesting. I caught that they were 12ohm in the ad, but thought it might have been a typo. I assume they will be 98db efficiency then too?
Solid deal! Wouldn't have even occurred to me to order upgrades to the closeout, sounds like that will be 95% of the superflys and in a beautiful finish... I'd love that walnut over my cosmic carbon.
Keep us posted on how this hybrid fares. |
Yep, I think the only difference would be the silver cabling inside and the driver. There is not that much of a difference between the two drivers. Let us know your impressions. |
While ordering, I asked for the values they spec for the cap, so that I could make the change myself at some point in the future. Sean explained that some of the units were not yet assembled, so it would be no problem for them to make the change. I thought that was mighty nice of him, given the price of these things.
I tend to prefer copper to silver wire, and the amps I own (some of which are SS) should do better with a driver that offers a bit more resistance. So I couldn't know for sure w/o listening, but I'm thinking I ordered a version of this speaker that suits me well, and for a better-than-fair price.
We'll see how it plays out. |
Mundorf silver in oil 1uf with a 10ohm resistor on the 16 ohm FRD superfly and a 12 ohm resistor with the 12 ohm Druid/Omen FRD.
As far as i know. |
