That is the list! Thanks. There was a more curent one where they actually made quick notes of the virtues of faults of each on the list, but that will do nicely. |
I have the Presence and very little feedback has been out there on this speaker.
For those who have heard it where does it fall in the Zu line up?
I am hooked on the Zu sound and will get the Def2 when the time is right.
The RWA 70.2 sounded like crap next to the AS S30. How does crap sound? Like the RWA 70.2.
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The Presence was an excellent speaker albeit now discontinued. I believe. Basically more in common with the Defs than the Druid in terms of the bass design so probably sits between Druid and Defs.
Very little to fault it on based on my limited listening experience (part of an afternoon in the company of lots of Zu and Naim gear).
The big issue really was the look. I'm not referring to the triangular shape. More the grill than anything. Made it look very 1950s or art deco and that severely limited the number of homes into which it would be welcomed IMHO especially when combined with the price.
Sufficient reviews around if not exactly an excess. Start with the links on the Zu site.
Mike |
Love or hate the look of the Presence. In our home it fits and for the $$$ is a great sounding speaker. |
My Soul Superfly arrived about 10 days ago. Not properly setup but connected to Golden Tube Audio SE-300B II SE fed by Wavelength Proton and iMac.
They're really nicely made speakers. WAF was low but improving. Cosmic Carbon is OK.
Even badly setup they're pretty good out of the box. Sounding promising... |
Glory,
The AS s30 is the amplifier I am most curious about and would LOVE to try with my Superflys. From what I've read it sounds like a match made in heaven, but between heat output, exposed tubes (infant and cats) and the fact that it seems to go for MORE than the MA-60s on the used market (when one rarely comes up used...), I don't think I'll get to hear it for a bit.
The Firstwatt is sounding a bit better with better with some time on it, but I've still got a very clear preference for the Dynaco at this point. We shall see where I end up, but at this point I'm leaning the tube direction--the updated Dynaco is just so damn musical! |
The S30 on the Presence speakers is so good I just can not think of a better amp for them. Made the RWA 70.2 sound like cardboard. The amp is so good I bought it new and that is not my way of thinking. I did not want ot wait 6 months for it to come up for sale on the 'Gon.
Now if the Def2 comes up I would like to buy it and hear the difference from the Presence. |
Just noticed new images on Zu website for Soul Superfly. The wood grain looks interesting. I think high gloss or wood grain would have gotten better WAF. However probably not achievable for the $$$. Was the Soul Superfly driver mean't to have had the same cone 'treatment' as the Essence - epoxy spokes? I barely noticed in one of the new images the same FRD as Essence. Nice finishing touch would have been Cardas custom binding knobs (just for aesthetics). |
Not sure what you mean George. I have Superfly on order with wood finish (maple); black anodising and Cardas binding posts.
Suspect mine will be lighter than those in the pics.
Mike |
@Mike. I didn't know Maple with black anodising was available. Did this cost more? They have Cardas binding posts with standard plastic knob, would have been nice touch to have the custom knob. |
George,
The thing with Zu is that, within reason, any finish is available.
I kind of agree about the Cardas knob in the sense that it's not as user friendly as earlier versions but I do think it's entirely in keeping with the low cost, simple ethos around the Soul, Superfly and Omen.
Mike |
Anyone notice the Soul is out? And with intro pricing too... http://www.zuaudio.com/loudspeakers/soul.html |
@Mike, was Maple and black anodised available with introductory offer? |
Tough choice, Omen or Soul for only $500 more bucks. I prefer the cabinet of the Omen, my only hesitation is the tweeter being below the woofer. The cabinet may be a little to small for that configuration, they will be well below my ear at my listening position. |
George,
I have no idea. I'm in the UK so the pricing is different anyway.
Mike |
Bwp,
The choice would be easier if Zu hadn't inverted the discounts. They gave $500 off the cheaper speaker and $300 off the more expensive one. doh! |
Gopher,
I have already made my choice in the context of having heard Druid, Presence, Essence and Defs. Defs too expensive for me. Presence ditto and an odd look. Essence lovely but a bit too hi-fi (oh noo!) and with some cuppiness in the vocals. Druids - perfect in size and sound for my room and system (well maybe a bit tall). So, all that said, the Superfly suits me down to the ground in terms of being smaller yet better than the Druid from accounts so far.
What I'm not getting is, unless you are absolutely strapped for cash or unable to save, what would help you decide between Omen and Soul or indeed Superfly. My assumption is that the Omen will be slightly less dynamic and the driver switch will maybe impact on sound dispersion. The internal cabling may also tweak the "house sound" but none of these? to me, make Thr choice clear cut.
So, interesting to see how it's all going to pan out.
Incidentally, given that this is s thread about Superfly, I think it's about time we had a comprehensive update on how yours are doing. I've read plenty about amp changes but how do you currently feel bout the speakers?
Mike |
From my talks with Sean, the Omen uses the Druid frd with new phase plug, the Soul the new frd with More attack and faster transients ESP in kick drum areas of bass/mid.
The Soul/Omen could be upgraded to almost superply status for $250 yourself if you don't mind diy. 2x Mundorf sio caps and Duelund resistors = $120 and quietcoat or soundpaint to paint the inside of cabinet for $80. Of course you would lose warranty. You could buy Soul/Omen keep them for a few years and then mod them......
I've modded my Druids with Seans advice to be very close to superply status...... I'll post a separate topic about it later. $500ish which is cheaper than selling/buying/shipping ( to Australia for me) and was fun to do ...... |
Just got the email, they're introducing the normal version of Zu soul for 1400.
I still think the omen at 1k is a better deal. Anyone with knowledge between these two care to comment? |
"Essence lovely but a bit too hi-fi (oh noo!) and with some cuppiness in the vocals."
As Phil has stated in the past, you need to get the amp right with the speakers. I personally do not experience any hifi-ness or vocal cuppiness with my Essence's, to my ears the Essence are much more engaging in all aspects than the Druids. |
Don't you love when blank statements are made about a unit that is not thought out.
This is HI-FI sounding and this is not. There are 10 different factors in play for the final sound and not just one unit. To say the Essence is Hi Fi sounding is .........
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"Don't you love when blank statements are made about a unit that is not thought out.
This is HI-FI sounding and this is not. There are 10 different factors in play for the final sound and not just one unit. To say the Essence is Hi Fi sounding is ........."
Hi Glory,
You are quite for using such generalising terms.
IMO HiFi sounding is something that sounds accurate and detailed but is not engaging.
Cheers
James |
LOL!
I just got email from Zu who say standard Zu Soul pricing is $1800!
So, what is it? $1500? $1400? $1800?
what a complete mess. |
Zanon,
There really isn't anything confusing about it... I think you should re-read a little more carefully.
$1800 is msrp. Pre-orders are discounted to $1500 for new Zu customers and to $1400 for existing Zu customers. |
Are these the same speakers that were $999 recently? was taht a pre-order or a per-pre-order?
and i could have swong the $999 price was discount for original $1500 MSRP.
I cannot wait to see how Soul (maybe superfly, maybe not superfly) pricing evolves! |
"blank statements" - well I could talk all night about each Zy speaker but a balance has to be struck and my statement has to be seen in the context of other statements I have made here on Essence re: the two different perceptions of it that exist.
FWIW, at my dealer we worked our way from my Naim amps and power supplies to what used to be owned by Avonessence. As we moved up instruments became much more natural but lost a little PRaT. Fine for some but not for me. What we could not lose regardless of amp was a certain cuppiness on female vocals. Two people disliked it. One was okay with it. It has been noted in reviews of the Essence so I wasn't just imagining it.
Other things do come into play though. When on demo in my own space the vocals were less cuppy but were recessed. It could only be fixed by locating them in open space too far into the room to be acceptable.
For many people they do treble more in the expected "hi-fi" way but for just as many the Druid, for but one example, does it more naturally and coherently. Each to their own :) |
No they aren't.
Omen: 1500msrp $1000 preorder
Soul: 1800msrp $1500 preorder new customer $1400 prior |
The Essence with Naim gear IMO is too much, the Essence speaker isn't a good balance overall, they do have some outstanding traits with the Naim amps, but swapping to other manufacturers amps brings them to life.
The Druids are a fine match with the CDX2 and Naim amps as they calm their (what can be termed) as bright and glassines, with the further opened tweeter unit in the Soul Superfly I wonder if this will still be the case? In my experience the CDS3 that Mahughes moved upto when listening to the Essence at our dealers, is a better match with these speakers, but IMO not a very good match with the Druids (that I once had), with the slightly dark nature of the Druids presentation coupled with a similar darker sounded CDS3, culminated in a sound presentation which was not engaging or enjoyable overall.
I do believe that mine and Mahughes requirements regarding engaging music are one and the same, it is just that we have/are tackling in it in a different direction. But I could be wrong;) |
Gopher:
Yes, you are right! Soul is now $1800 MSRP and Omen is $1500 MSRP
These prices make no sense of course. Is Soul the standard or superfly? Why would anyone get $1500 Omen instead of $1800 Soul? It is laughable. I will laugh as pricing continues to evolve. |
Zanon, my friend. It seems you're looking for a conflict here ;)
I suggest you give Zu a buzz or drop their new CEO a line. They have a long term plan which makes the Omen and Soul's existence alongside the Omen make perfect sense, but its not my place to voice it.
Of course the Soul is the standard at $1800 and the Soul Superfly remains at its projected price in the US.
From the specs of the Omen I suspect it will be a slightly more laid back speaker than the Souls. Despite same or similar driver/tweeter as Superfly (CEO told me same as Soul, Sean told someone else same as Druid).
I think Zu described the Omen as a shorter Druid that isn't gap sensitive (hearsay). The Soul (standard and superfly) were both described as the next evolution/superior to the druid).
Again, speak to Zu directly as their CEO volunteered plenty of info, but as they haven't made any announcements on the forums I won't spill the beans. |
Gopher:
I am merely pointing out that their pricing makes no sense and is very confusing.
I am so releived to hear taht they have a long term plan. I hopes to gods it is better than their short term plan.
I have no interest in talking to Zu CEO. He really has bigger problems to focus on |
So I have had the Leben 300XS up and running for around three days now, and it is spectacular. If anyone is looking for a good match, this is a great one. It is a great performer across the board.
I would still say that the Miniwatt is a great performer for its price point. But the Leben is spectacular. |
Nothing to do with superfly, but I finally got around to making dramatic room changes to Druid with impact on sound. Some improvement as I expected, and some big surprise as well.
My room is large, open L with cathedral ceiling and suffer from typical big room problem. Floor is cavity. I was running druid with megabuck Rotel class-d, plus seal B&W sub. Setup was in closed portion at end of "L" to deal with open room. Setup druid on wood plank.
I had a midrange suckout which I deal with with digital EQ, plus I had mid bass that really need to be run hot for it to be audible, even though it show up measuring very over (+8-9 db).
I move druid to corner of L. I put speaker on 6 inch of brick. I swap out Rotel for Peachtree Nova, and B&W for two ported subs. Most heretical, I run sub from 30-60Hz, and Druid from 60Hz+. Rolloff is sharp.
I have wanted to run dual subwoofer for long time, and given improvement from floor to wood, was interested in wood to something harder.
Here is what I find:
1. The denser the surface under the druid the better. From carpet to wood to tile to thick brick it just get better and better in upper bass and midrange.
2. Mid bass remain freakshow. 60Hz cutoff helps. It also help midrange. In general, tonal density of speaker is immense now. It is like sticking head in bucket of sound. I am interested if I can get even more of this immersion.
3. Nova is remarkable amp. I try mid-fi integrated with DAC (HK) and Nova was so clearly better it makes me laugh. Maybe you can get better amp than Nova, but Nova kick butt of low end AB integrated, and high end class-d. I had given up on class-d, and now I give up on it even more.
4. Ported subs were harder to integrate than seal. I first integrate roughtly with 20-200Hz sweeps, and then voice to actual music. But it works OK now. I also find that I must place subs very very close to main speaker. Maybe this is because I cross over very high, but group delay from sub is real phenomenon.
4. Midrange suckout is gone. I have no idea where it went. This is most curious to me. Maybe there were standing waves in the end of L that are gone in corner. I do not understand how place speaker in the most OPEN part of overly large room fixed so many of "big room" problem.
5. Digital EQ sucks. I am so happy to be rid of it.
6. I now have to sit on two pillows on chair since druid is so much higher. Ear height make big difference.
7. Because midrange is so richer, I can have speaker further apart and keep same tonal density. Sound stage is massive, and I think that is what creates the immersion in part. I am getting closer to solid wall of sound.
8. Once again, I am taught importance of toe-in for druid. I spend a long time on this, and literally milimeter change create great coherence. On track where synth play with phase to make sound slither around, i literally hear it run all around the room. Even behind me sometimes, it is very cool effect.
9. While imaging is something I do not care about, this setup does not really have it, but there is presence in the solid wall. Hard to describe.
10. This system scale very nicely. So you have track with quiet portion, it is nice and focus and clear. And then when you get crescendo, it is like everything get bigger. Sound stage gets bigger, power gets bigger, just more massive on every dimension. This is also very nice effect, I would like to get even more drama in this "scale" impact.
11. Off axis, system went from being "good" to "bad". In spot it is actively unlistenable. Oh well. |
Anyone using the Wadia 151 Dac Mini with the Superfly? |
I too wonder whether to order the Omen at 999 or the Sould for 500 more? At this moment their pricing and line is very confusing. |
Have had the Soul Superfly for a few weeks now. It's just what I was looking for, a Druid++. |
Gopher,
I see that the Dynaco and the F1J are both up for sale. What did you end up settling on for your Superflys? |
Roscoeiii,
I saw your message on AC and was going to respond after tonights events (just got out of Roger Waters doing "The Wall" at Nassau Collisium--amazing).
I haven't actually settled on anything yet. I've been talking quite a bit with Phil behind the scenes about potential upgrades and had resolved to purchase a Chinese EL156 integrated when I stumbled upon an Atma-sphere S-30 within my budget.
I figured due to the fact that the integrated is available all day every day at the same price while S-30s barely ever come up used, I would give it a whirl.
I had just finished resolving not to buy an amp with exposed tubes, but somehow convinced myself that if I do like this solution I can rig something up to keep my kid and pets away.... it will probably look terrible, but next weeks listening sessions should be interesting. |
An S-30 here really caught my attention too. Incredible amps. And always nice to see Ralph from Atamasphere on these boards. Had the pleasure of meeting him in the Twin Cities. I hope to have an S-30 someday. |
Can anyone out there quantify the sonic differences between the Superfly and the regular Soul (I would prefer the opinion of someone that heard them both using the same electronics side by side). Are the sonic improvements proportional to the price differential? Thank you in advance. |
If you look out the Zu site under the Loudspeaker heading and scroll down to the Soul (not the Superfly) you will see the differences listed along with the sonic improvements noted for the Superfly. Can't say if the sonic improvements are proportional to the price difference (especially when considering the sale price of the Soul ), however I would personally opt for the Superfly. |
For what its worth I was exchanging emails this morning with a friend who was dead set on buying the Omen, but after hearing it and the SF at a Florida Zu party, he is ponying up the extra money for Superfly.
On a side note: I've got the S-30 sitting in my car now and can't wait to leave the office! |
I wonder if had your friend heard the regular Soul as well at the party, whether he would have still spent the extra $$ on the SF or would the Soul have been more than enough.
(although on second thought I think I know the answer to that. Most audiophiles, if it is within the realm of the affordable, once they heard better won't settle for good enough) |
The S-30 arrived in good condition, but there were two tube fatalities on the way. My first impressions are a bit mixed. VERY transparent, detailed and super liquid with good control over the speakers. I may need to tweak around a little bit as emotionally its not completely emotionally stirring at the onset--it is two tubes short and being fed from a single ended preamp (don't have balanced) so I guess we'll see how it works out. |
I'm sure this was covered, but I can't read 450 post to find it!! I'm in a room thats 16x30, ceilings are 12-17 foot. However I'm in the loft part so I only sit about 7' from the speakers, with the speakers about 15" from the wall, the wall behind me is 16' away. I've ben wanting to try the Souls and don't know if thats enough room for them to work for me. Any commments? |
I have used both Druid and now Essence in a 10'x12' room, placing my listening position about 7' from the speakers with good results. Had feared the Essence bass response would overload the room , but it did not. At this distance the speakers seem to have an intimacy and immediacy that has not been matched by any other speaker in my room. Especially nice for late night listening because the Zu speakers are well balanced at low volumes. |
For what its worth I was exchanging emails this morning with a friend who was dead set on buying the Omen, but after hearing it and the SF at a Florida Zu party, he is ponying up the extra money for Superfly. Exact opposite for me. I've now had some time with both speakers and I'll be picking up the Omens as soon as I'm able. |
Is that based on it being a better 'value' or is it a signature you prefer irrespective of price?
I'm getting used to the Atma=sphere amplifier and it is really an impressive piece. Slightly dry, but I'm going to roll some 6sn7s in and see how it does. I suspect this may be my Superfly keeper. |
I prefer the sonic signature of the Omen's driver over the Superfly's driver. The Superfly had a few characteristics that I found distracting, but not serious enough to keep me from wanting a pair. I didn't hear those same things in the Omen.
I asked Sean about what the differences between the drivers were. The Superfly's high output driver uses a lighter cone mixed with the largest and most powerful magnet assembly they could make work. Something about these changes doesn't completely agree with my ears.
Now, don't get me wrong. I could still listen to the Superfly every day. I spent hours at RMAF sitting in the Zu room and just enjoying the music. But for my tastes and listening style, the Omen is a better fit.
The biggest downside is the tweeter placement. It's too low and it does pull the entire soundstage down. I sit fairly low and pretty far away from the speakers, so I'm willing to deal with it. It does make me wonder, though, how the Druid would hold up with the Omen's driver and the improved Griewe loading. I am considering purchasing a pair of used Druids and doing those updates myself. We'll see how things look when my tax return rolls in next year.
I also spent good amount of time at RMAF talking to Kristian, Sean and Adam. I think the latter two's decision to put the management of the company into the former's hands was a great idea. Apparently they've brought on new people, reworked the factory space, and Adam and Sean seem more free to work on new products instead of getting caught up in the day-to-day business operations. I couldn't get any of them to open up about what's coming up, but by the sounds of it we should expect a lot more from the company over the next few months. |
Spring: 7 feet is fine for Druid,
Themadmilkman: Yes, speaker height, especially tweeter, is important. I had to put my driuid on 6 inch brick (long story) and my listening chair now gets 6 inch of pillow, otherwise balance is thrown right off.
Do not mention this to other people on this forum to whom it is article of religous faith that Zus do fine just "plopped down".
Would love to hear more about RMAF, and Zu room in particular |
