Zu Soul Superfly

Sadly, I'm not the owner. Sean was kind enough to let me borrow them for a weekend (they went out to a friend who was fine with that arrangement) along with his amp. The yamamoto is an interesting piece of gear. The midrange really is golden, but I could never deal with the limited dynamics and lack of bass control. I have a feeling that I'd prefer the Soul with some real tube muscle. I know a lot of people swear by SETs with Zu speakers, but I'd love to hear it with a giant balanced tube amp.

Anyway, this weekend audition was my first experience with Zu speakers, so I can't compare it to the Druid or any others. I can say what I heard, though. I initially set up the speakers about 5 feet apart with me sitting on a fairly tall recliner about 5 feet away. The soundstaging was amazing in that setup, but the speakers had a very nasal qualify to them. Some rearranging of furniture ended up with the speakers where you see them in the pictures and me sitting about 7 feet back and on a shorter couch. I had the speakers pointed just slightly behind me. In this position they really opened up. I think the nasal quality was a refraction (is that the right word?) issue from sitting above axis.

Now for sound. I listen to a very wide variety of music, ranging from hip-hop to jazz to full orchestras to video game soundtracks. I found that I generally liked the Souls most with smaller groups and close-miked instruments. Buddy Guy's Blues Singer, for example, came across as very raw and in-your-face, which is precisely how it should sound. The Souls drew out every low-level detail you could imagine, from his fingers scratching across the strings to his hands smacking against the body of his guitar is presented to you in a very neutral and revealing manner. It feels like the speakers really get out of the way and let the recording come through.

I also enjoyed listening to Blue Man Group's Audio on the Souls, although the bass wasn't quite as full as I would have liked. It was accurate and extended, but it felt recessed. This was true with both the Yamamoto and my NAD integrated, which at 50wpc has more than enough power to control the Soul's bass. It may have been a room issue, but I think ultimately this one is a matter of personal taste. I like full room-shaking bass and I was unable to produce that with the Souls. I would really love to hear them matched with a Method sub. 2 of them would be even better.

The Souls feel very neutral. Nothing seems too exaggerated. My sister (a non-audiophile but definite music lover) came up to listen to them with me and said that overall they sounded "sweet," and I would agree. The lack of exaggerated high frequencies makes the sound sweet relative to a lot of more mainstream audiophile brands. She brought up the soundtracks to all of the Harry Potter movies, and I thoroughly enjoyed them, which surprised me slightly given how well the speakers took to just a man and his guitar. The Souls didn't provide the same sense of monumental scale that you would get out of a large multi-driver speaker, but the musical score itself did come across clearly and without distraction.

Of everything I listened to, the only time I was disappointed was during Gil Shaham's rendition of The Four Seasons. There were times that things would begin to sound really congested and some of the individual instruments would get lost. I don't have that issue with my Vandersteens, although my 1Cs definitely don't produce the sort of detail that the Soul can.

Anyway, I know this isn't your typical audiophile review, but this is how I listen. I like a speaker that lets me hear the artwork being produced without distraction. Minus my desire for fuller bass, the Soul did this admirably. I would recommend them just about anyone.

No wait, actually, I do have one other complaint. I like the monolithic look of the Druid better. I mentioned this to Sean and he said that other people have said the same thing, and that they hope to eventually develop a "new" Druid provided that they can get the same imposing stature and have it sound better than the Soul Superfly. If they manage that, I'll be first on the reservation list. I may have to sell a kidney to make it happen, but I will.

After a week in triode mode (40wpc) I just switched to pentode (60wpc) with the Ayon Spirit II.

Music comes across fuller and with more body, and the bass seems to be more controlled. Had the name Soul not been in the mix, I would have started by saying that it feels like the music has more soul.

As a note, I prefer triode with the Gemme Tanto V2s, though the knob has to be turned up a bit more than in pentode, with the Gemmes (less efficient than the Zu's, of course).

Will have to listen in pentode mode over the next week and will provide more details in the main review at that time. New photos, hopefully by tomorrow.

Themadmilkman...... I have the Druids and due to the shipping costs to Australia I decided to try to upgrade them rather than ship out new Souls. I contacted Sean and after a few email exchanges he came up with a few ways to improve the Mk4/08 Driuds.

1. Paint the inside of the cabinet with Soundpaint or Quietcoat, 2 coats min (ala Soul)
2. Make a foam wedge (open cell)which fits into the cutout in the base plate of Druid with a 3/8" gap all round and extending upto the center of the tweeter.Stick the foam to the mesh with contact glue (Soul Essence ish) Improves bass and overall slam acording to Sean.
3. place a 1" dowel between the FRD and tweeter connecting the front and back of the cabinet.......glue in before soundpainting.

this is in addition to the Mudorf SIO cap and Duelund resistor upgrade (ala Soul)which I already have.

Another improvement I'm undertaking is to replace the FRD with Soul FRD. This require a resistor tweek from 12ohm to 10ohms.

all this is easily achievable for less than shipping (as I already have the High pass)

I'll report on the changes I find when completed. Even without the driver upgrade the box dampening/ foam wedge and extra brace will improve the Druid Sean suggests.

David_ten, It's interesting that you find they have more soul with pentode mode over triode. I had a VAC amp that switched between, and my preference was always triode with the Essence, Devore super 8, 9 and the various Verity speakers I tried it with.

Maybe by more soul you are liking a more top to bottom and overall powerful experience? Are the mids better in triode or do you still prefer the pentode? I'm curious about how you find the texture in vocals and striking and sustain of chords between the two.

Anyway, sounds like you are enjoying them. Happy listening!

Gopher: My issue with Druids at flea-watt amps is not in bass, it is in midrange. And it has nothing to do with level.

I am surprised you like your VIRTUE. I have given up on class-d.

Themadmilkman: Yes, it is lack of exaggerated HF that make Druid sound so different from other hifi speakers, and more natural. This element I like, although I would not characterize sound as "sweet".

I do not like running druids much below 60Hz. Actually, I roll them off at 70Hz (heresey I know) and fill down to 35-40Hz with subwoofer. In large part this is requirement of room. And I am not someone who likes "slam" bass.

Did you listen to Four Season using flea-watt amp? I hate the congestion I got when W was too low. If you get more powerful amp, you will not have congestion with acoustic, full orchestra work (which is hardest test for speaker btw). Zu do perfectly credible job with this music if properly setup.

It's all gone very quiet. No more owners? No more photos? What's a boy to do?

All are now probably on vacation.

Sit back relax and wait for yours to arrive.

Pinging 213cobra...

Phil - just wondering if have been able to audition your recently acquired Quad II's on the Superfly. Your comments regarding their performance on the Druid sound promising.

I've googled the Jubilee edition - what a stunning looking pair of monoblocks.

I'm wondering if you could elaborate a little more on the sound of the Quad II's with the Druid (and specifically Soul if you've been able to audition). Information garnered on the "net" would seem to charactarize the sound as "vintage", I'm assuming quite euphonic. In your comments you identify the sound as very SET-like. Can provide some additional comments comparing/contrasting the Quad II sound with "modern" 300B (ie your Audion PSET).

Personally, I enjoy a warm, rich (not syrypy) tone with ample detail - it sounds like the Quads are right up this alley. I'm just wondering how it would compare on my Superflys with my current 300b (Dignity Audio DA-08S) monoblocks.

Your comments greatly appreciated Phil.

Regards,
Dave

Dave,

The Quad II circuit combines a long measure of the holistic presentation and tonal purity of a fine SET amp, with some of the bottom end discipline of a push-pull amplifier, without the excesses of either. My Audion 300B PSET mono blocks are the Golden Dreams -- their top amp. The Quad Jubilee mono blocks are not better than the sensational Audions, but they are much closer than the price disparity suggests. The Quad II was a very simple circuit -- there are only 13 caps and resistors in each mono block signal path, the rest of the componentry being tubes, transformers, choke and power supply filtering. They are the most SET-like push-pull amps I've heard, ever. The Quad II also is optimized for a 16 ohms load, so Druids or Superfly are perfect for them. Definitions less so.

I'm not enthusiastic about most 300B SET amps. Most are sweet and rich but also slow and euphonic. Audion's SET amps are an exception, being fast, transparent and beautiful. There are some others too. I haven't heard Dignity Audio, so can't directly comment. The Quad II circuit has some bass bloat compared to many more contemporary tube designs, especially those using diode rectification. But compared to the majority of SET and PSET amps, they are relatively controlled. The Quad II is also very quiet compared to most SET. For someone with Zu levels of efficiency who also wishes to avoid the noise, bass euphonia and tube exotica of SET, I think Quad II reissue amps are both a great buy (assuming a good preamp) and aurally beautiful. The reissue QII mono blocks are faithful in circuit and execution, plus there are reasonably good KT66s again, along with good 5881 subs.

If you can find a pair of Jubilee amps, their price may be off-putting, but that is the most convincing Quad II version I've heard -- some cryptically dismissive reviewer comments notwithstanding. But that's no reason not to buy the current ~$3000 Asian-built reissue. It's excellent in it's own right. And anyone fearing 15w just won't do it for them, the KT88 Quad Two-Forty emulates the II's simple clarity with more punch.

I haven't yet connected my Quad II Jubilees to my friend's Superfly speakers. I should get a chance to do that soon. But I know intimately how well they do on Druid 4-08 so extrapolating to Superfly isn't difficult. They will do even better. My Audion Golden Dream mono blocks are out for service. I'll have them back i. A week or so, at which point I can resume hearing the Quad IIs surprising me. I recommend the Quad II in reissue, Jubilee or rehabbed original form, for Zu higher impedance models, without reservation. The match to Definitions is more conditional due to the 6ohms speaker impedance. I'll be digging into that match, against 845 mono blocks, over the next week or two.

A pair of Quad II with good tubes will sound less "vintage-in-a-bad-way" than a stock Dyna Stereo 70. You can tune the sound somewhat via tube substitutions: more reticent with 5881 output tubes; a little more assertive with a GZ34 rectifier tube. I'm anxious to try the Shuguang carbon/polymer KT66, which should sound vivid and incisive. The Quad II has input sensitivity I'd 1.4v for full power, so put a strong line stage or preamp in front of it. I've been listening to the Jubilee amps in my Druids system for over a month. They could keep me happy indefinitely in that speaker.

Phil

Phil

Phil, thanks for the comprehensive and thoughtful reply.

I have the Suoerfly's in my home theatre system at the moment while Harbeth SLH5's occupy the mins in my 2-channel setup.

Would you be able to pass comment on how the Quad Classic II's would pair with the Harbeths? I'm assuming that the 15W amps would be stretching it a bit (even though with the type of music I listen to and SPL's I listen at, I have no problems enjoying the Dignity 300b). The Harbeths are officially rated at 87 db sensitivity but have actually been measured in a review at closer to 91 db. I suppose the Classic II-40 would supply a little headroom.

Assuming you're familiar with the Harbeth house sound, do you think the Quad Classic would be a likely match?

Regards,
Dave

I am just wondering how in < 4 months, there are over 300 threads on the wackily named "Zu Soul Superfly"?

Is anyone here affiliated with the manufacturer in any way?

Thank you,

300 threads? I'm aware of maybe five on the internet, and I search... frequently.

08-29-10: Cwlondon
Is anyone here affiliated with the manufacturer in any way?

Hi Cwlondon,

I am affiliated with the manufacturer by buying firstly Zu Druids and then Zu Essence speakers. Over here in England we are waiting to take a listen to our favorite music through the Soul Superfly's when they eventually land here.

Get a listen to your favorite music through any of the Zu speakers (on the end of a well selected system) and you might understand why there is over 300 posts on this speaker(s).

Best regards

James

Cwlondon,

I'm with Gopher. I assume you meant posts rather than threads.

I can't imagine that anyone here is affiliated with Zu. The reality is that this is a high efficiency; high impedance speaker that appears to solve a lot of issues for a lot of people interested in high efficiency; full range; A small size floorstandes.

Moreover there is a backlog on orders through word of mouth and reviews have been delayed as a consequence. Thus they would have little to gain right now by pushing stuff online

Mike

>>Is anyone here affiliated with the manufacturer in any way?<<

CW,

You must mean to ask about there being over 300 responses to the original poster in this thread, correct?

I think everyone here is either a Zu customer or someone interested in learning about Superfly from people who have heard it, or its close relatives. If being a Zu customer makes any of us "affiliated," then yes. If being a customer just means that alone, then no. I haven't seen anyone from the company post in this thread.

Soul Superfly is an interesting and capable speaker at a price lots of people can handle. It just generates interest, and this has proven to be an inquisitive group.

Phil

Dave,

I'm familiar with the Harbeths. The Quad II Classic monoblocks *may* meet your dynamic needs if you are satisfied with what you get from the 300B amp, but understand that the Harbeths' 6 ohms impedance isn't optimal for the Quad IIs, which put out maximum power 8 - 16 ohms. Power output erodes quickly below 8 ohms, markedly below 4 ohms.

The Quad Two-Forty removes risk of being unsatisfied dynamically while delivering the essential Quad valve sound. The 12 ohms Druids and 16 ohms Superfly are virtually perfect matches for the Quad II. Plus the Harbeths' passive crossover will introduce additional drag on your perception of dynamic life compared to crossoverless Zu (which is a bit different from calculated dynamic range at a given speaker efficiency/amp power).

Phil

Any ideas why pricing has changed to $4,543? See, http://www.zuaudio.com/loudspeakers.html

We've just been debating that in the UK. Could be that Zu is building in a shipping cost but last time this happened it was a move from direct sales to shops so it's intriguing to say the least. Email to Zu UK rep and Utah is on its way!

Worth mentioning that there are new images up there too albeit that one looks badly shopped.

Mike

Says $3495 when I looked. Cosmic carbon is in short supply and the next space shuttle doesn't launch till November. When they get more cosmic carbon the price will go down.

F*** me that is one hell of a shipping cost $1743.00 for shipping, have they got a first class seat on a plane to the purchaser?

There are also no prices listed for any other speakers, just "call for pricing."

Yikes! Glad I early adopted. They're worth every penny at that price, but I don't have that many pennies for the hobby at the moment...

Whats going on with Srajan's review? It's been hanging at 'more in due time' for months.

The 6 moons review has been binned. He's taken his bat home because he couldn't get a review pair soon enough. No one else seems to have done the same so there may be something else to it. I emailed to query and got a response which hasn't been published on the site but there was a hint of arrogance IMHO in the suggestion, however accurate, that he had a role in breaking Zu worldwide. It inferred, perhaps unintentionally, that there ought to have been different treatment. Zu however appear to rightly be prioritising customer orders which appear to have considerably exceeded even their best hopes so I for one am quite comfortable with that.

However, I've still not got my pair...

Does binned mean it was pushed to the back burner or that it was nixed all together? It sounds like the latter.

That is too bad if its been nixed. It seems demand is truly overwhelming production and that there is a queue of paying customers waiting for a pair. Tough choice for Zu--furthering their commercial interest or satisfying their customers. I respect their choice.

That said, I really like Srajans' reviews and have bought a number of pieces over the years based on his endorsements as I feel I have similar sonic priorities to his. His Druid review was what made me consider Zu in the first place.

I guess we will see where the chips fall on this one. Thanks for the info.

Also, where the heck are all the owners? Didn't the very first run include more than thirty pairs (early adopter run)?

Actually, the reason I cancelled the review is that the preview which went live when Zu first solicited the review was live for far too many months. By the time an actual review pair was finally supposed to ship in October plus the time it would take to write the review, it would have been an 8-9 months delay.

I thus deleted the preview. The function of our previews is not to hang in endless limbo after all. Because I've personally reviewed a great number of Zu speakers already, I decided to sit this one out. With the demand this model generated, Zu needs to first take care of its paying customers. Mahughes is quite mistaken thinking that we expect preferential treatment and cancel reviews if we don't get it. That's rubbish.

We do expect to be kept in the loop when we make space in our tight schedules for any review solicitation and for whatever reason review samples don't manifest in the agreed upon time frame. In this case, Zu simply initiated things prematurely.

It's no big deal. Eventually review samples will become available and there's quite a list of assigned writers listed on the Zu website already.

Thanks for clearing that up! Its a shame you won't be reviewing this one as I love your reviews and your site.

I usually find myself auditioning gear based on your endorsement--I wanted to see if my early adopter/unbiased findings mirrored yours this time around with the tables turned.

Keep writing great reviews!

Fred

Using common sense, my prior exposure and current ownership of the Essence, I would predict a return to the Zu house sound,i.e. less concessions to a modern 'commercial' sound as the ribbon tweeter in the Essence was supposed to do. To match the ribbon, the widebander's sensitivity had to be padded down. With the Soul, I think it's back up. The Griewe loading of the Essence (that foam cartridge) really works and apparently the Soul's turned/twisted design and new 'breathing holes' are an advancement on that.

My assumption is thus an upgraded Druid Mk IV with more bass power and an improved widebander in a stumpier box for what until recently was a better price. Today the site when accessed from Switzerland shows $4.543 which isn't exactly the $2.600 it was when I was first solicited. Not sure what happened there and whether this is the price *delivered* (i.e. including shipping) to the EU - which would be first-class expedited shipping plus unless the base price too has increased.

Zu will hopefully make a public statement on this price increase (American readers apparently see $3.500).

The Zu website has always had different pricing for US and non-US readers. Non-US pricing has always been a lot higher. It seems as if there was a glitch; and US readers (for a while) saw $4543. It is now $3500.

I know. My point was, an increase from $2600 to $3500 or 35% up isn't insignificant and a further sign that I was approached prematurely. The current direct-sales model does not explain why foreign pricing outside the US would be another $1000 more, does it? It's an entirely different positioning and value proposition.

After I published the Presence review in which Zu announced a return to dealer distribution, the company shortly afterwards reverted to direct sales again and the Presence was quickly discontinued. Given that experience and the current delay and price changes of the Soul, I'm merely reinforced in my decision to sit this one out.

Srajen,

Apologies if wires have gotten crossed. No offence intended.

I was talking to a couple of friends about this last night and I think zu are going to need to act quickly to put this to bed.

One friend noted that they were behaving exactly like a company with excellence in production but perhaps not marketing vacillating between direct sealing dealerships. Next step will be to outsource it.

The reply I had from Gerrit at Zu didn't really enlighten me on why the price rise but, to me, it looks like either the inclusion of first class shipping as you've stated, or, a dealer cut.

Either way, some clarity is urgently required.

I should also add my voice to Fred in saying that I love the reviews. They have been highly influential. I'm still unclear though as to what 6mooons lose b the delay. It's Zu that lose rep rather than 6moons surely and an update to the preview, rather than outright pulling, would surely have been enough for most of us.

Mike

This is now basically 2X the intro price. Who knows what the price will be by the time they decide to send out review samples?

Had the same shenanigans this time last year with Zu Essence on the change over from Dealer Network to Direct Sales, that was one hell of a frustrating 3 months from placing my order with my dealer in the UK, no one knew what was happening at all levels, exacerbated with little or no communication being forthcoming from all levels.
Anyone had similar experiences?

It seems to be a common trait, direct sales - dealer network - direct sales - price increases out of no-where, makes one think twice about dealing with a company with such inconsistencies.

Although Zu speakers are spectacular in my opinion.

Based on the 35% increase in price I suspect it's a move back to dealer network. Agree such inconsistencies may impact the reputation of the company. I hope my pre-order pair which I am still waiting for isn't affected by the changes.

Mine have arrived but, in a strange twist, are sitting idle in my room waiting for an amp. Funny that. Should have some reports starting next weekend.

My gut on the price increase: I think that they are still trying to find their sweetspot in the market. I think that the buzz around the Superfly has been overwhelming and that they are building speakers as fast as they can. I would imagine that the increase in price is, in large part, designed to help them build a company that can manufacture more product when they announce a new line rather than having to stagger production cycles like they are now. My sense is that they are staying direct (in the states, at least) but want to build capacity.

I can't wait to hear these beauties.

Start burning them in with whatever crap old receiver you have around the house. They take a bit to start sounding good so you may as well take advantage of the downtime.

I just noticed that Zu came out with a new line of cables which appear to be their new 'top of the line' at a pretty darn low cost. I'm curious about their speaker cables for the sole reason I read of so many people preferring libtec to anything else with Zu speakers, but I'm using an all Wywire system right now and don't think I want to even experiment with breaking my complete chain.

Still, its cheap though...

P.S. I also just noticed Sam Telling also backed out on the stereophile review due to the delay.

Gopher

What problems do you hear in your system that you think new cables will fix and why?

Zanon,

Absolutely nothing at the moment. I was previously having a little difficulty with the emotional communicative-ness of my analog setup but since moving to a system made of Wywire through out I have finally put that behind me and also gained a level of refinement and performance I didn't know I was missing.

That said I have two amps (SS and Tube) and two preamp outputs and would love the ability to simply swap the speaker cables while retaining similar virtues. After experiencing what I have now cable wise, nothing I've owned before will cut it, but I do wonder about synergy for the second system with the speakers own manufacture--especially at the bargain basement 'customer appreciation week' prices.

Gopher: Yes, it is exactly this path you describe that I have no interest in getting on. I learn nothing about sound this way.

Anyway, I have all solid state+DAC integrated and peachtree nova to test with druid -- i say goodbye to class-d forever! (except in subwoofer)

Also, I finally get dual sub -- both ported unfortunately but it is what my budget will allow.

Most interestingly, I make some radical changes to room. I still have lots of setup, testing, tuning etc. but I am already surprised at how much better tile under Druid makes the bass compared to even my wood planks. So much so in fact that I may try two inches of brick.

I pulled my Miniwatt out of my second system, butchered a pair of banana terminated speaker cables and fired mine up tonight. I was over waiting for the new amp.

Adequate speaker cable, the 2.5 watt miniwatt, and very little attention to setup besides a gut placement and.... I'm blown away. I think that they have put a very very nice speaker on the market. Even with some squishy mids, a bit less power than I would like (and that the speakers probably need), I'm pretty stunned. Maybe the most engaging first listen I've ever had with a speaker. I'm excited for rounding out what I actually intend to drive them with.

I had an early failed run with the Druids driven, almost wholly, by problems with my room and mismatched amplification. This is a totally different experience. I'll keep folks posted. Right now working my way through some of my favorite albums, The XX right now.

Got email from Zu. $1000 speaker coming.

I would definitely throw the Miniwatt amp into the affordable and very very enjoyable amp camp for the Superflys. I'm sure the Leben will be a step up, but I could easily live with this combo for a while. Very musical, engaging.

It's probably a great match for the new speakers. Perfect price point.

Got email from Zu. $1000 speaker coming.

Is that all they said? Because you've piqued the curiosity of my rather limited budget.

Maybe that $1,000 speaker comes packaged with the Superfly for $3,500 total?

I got the email too. Non-plodded as I have my order in for Superfly but... could it just be a slightly more organised version of the Superfly release for the.... Soul. The baths add up - originally pitched @ £1,800 and now with $800 off. Same differential as Superfly.

Or...

i bought soul superfly. wanted a second system in the spare room. maybe i should have waited for sub-$1000 zu speaker, would have been more sensible choice - financially.

Superfly price is as it was. Zu has a code problem on the web site that they, for whatever reason, haven't been able to fix.

The new speaker should be startling for the $1000 entry price, but it doesn't undermine Soul or Soul Superfly. They'll continue to be worth their price differential over the new entry model. Sean and Adam have a long-standing objective to deliver a truly Zu-worthy affordable dorm speaker. It looks like they've hit enough breakthroughs in their supply chain to make it happen without giving up the Zu FRD. We get details next week.

Phil

Thanks for the insight, Phil. I always thought it kind of silly ( as you might have been able to tell from my posts ) that Zu would think it wise to raise the price on these like that.

Well, I'm excited to see what they end up releasing. I'm guessing probably a bookshelf speaker, given the price. I wonder if they'll be showing it at RMAF.

Should have pulled up their website before I replied.

http://www.zuaudio.com/loudspeakers/omen.html

It looks like the Zu Omen is $1500. This is according to their website as of today. Interesting....looks like a Druid/Superfly hybrid. :) If I can get them for $1000, I am in Zu land.