Plenty of very nice modern 300B, 845, EL34 tubes. I'd definitely have an issue devoid NOS for most others.
Would you buy a tube amp if you were unable to use vintage tubes in it ?
Not available or too expensive.
Hmm.., I don't think I have a definitive answer for myself, but I would do my best to avoid such amps. There is no substitute for great tubes, I guess, especially if you value sophisticated sound.
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@bigtwin I think the answer was supposed to be the transistor but I've been around long enough to remember how much better the ARC SP3 preamp sounded than its solid state competition in the early-mid '70s. And, insofar as tube manufacture is concerned, I think it is a combination of things: materials and worker safety, tooling and loss of know-how for what is at best a now a niche market. That tubes were still manufactured in the old Soviet bloc had less to do with their belief in old technology than it was their inability to modernize. Sure, there are similar issues with rare earth materials involved in semiconductor manufacture, but the tube is obsolete and as such, people go back to the days when they were still a mainstream product. Did you ever see those old newsreels on video of the production of Mullard tubes? Fascinating- it was like a steampunk assembly line. Here's one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDvF89Bh27Y |
I think that's true. It means that with gear such as ARC, you're most likely to get a neutral sound. If you want to fiddle with tubes and use them as a sort of EQ device, that's fine. But then modern tube gear such as ARC probably isn't for you. |
I ask this question with complete sincerity. What is the fascination with vintage tubes? I can't think of much else where people put such a premium of things built decades ago. Nothing technological that I can think of. Are there some materials that are no longer available to modern tube manufacturers? Is there a secret process that has been Lost? Surely, we must be able to manufacture tubes today with the same care and attention to detail. In virtually all fields, the passing of time leads to improvements in the manufacturing process. So why are audio tubes, apparently, an exception to this rule. |
I'd ask the opposite question- does the unit sound good with a modern production tube? Good old stock is depleted and pricey- yeah, I run them but it gets harder to source replacements. And in my experience, there is a big difference in sound among different tubes that are semi-equivalent if not directly equivalent. So, I'd want something that will play nicely with a readily available tube, not just unobtanium, if I were in the market for new gear today. And, what is readily available today may not be tomorrow. I've been using tubes for audio since the early-mid '70s. If I were starting from scratch today, I don't know that I go down the rabbit hole at all, but that's wishful thinking-- I am where I am. Enjoyed the journey. Appreciated the days when you could buy new old stock Tele 12ax7s for 10 bucks a pop-- which was considered a premium. |
Yes. Plenty of vintage tubes stored away in cabinets, and using all new re-issue tubes now and past few years. I rotate the vintage tubes in/out once in a while, just to make it seem like they are all worth keeping, and from some of the best vintage tube sellers & testing, yet not finding much of a need for them as much any more. Just buy quality tubes that are well tested with a warranty and helpful tube seller and you should be good. If you can do both types, great, if not, its not as big of a deal that some like to make it out to be imo.Best of Luck. |
Sorry but I have to call BS that tube rolling doesn’t matter. I have 3 pairs of new production JJ12AU7’s in my never going to use drawer. Within those JJ’s I have the plain and the gold pin. I just spent $3K to have my Rogue M-180’s brought up to new specks and upgraded to “ Dark “ status. I pulled the JJ’s at about 40 hours of burn in as I couldn’t take it any longer. I put in a quad of Seimens Nickle plates. I have a quad of Tekefunken G73-R’s to go in when the project is fully setup. I replaced the 2 new production Tung Sol 5751’s at about 100 hours with NOS Tekefunken 12AX7’s and after a few days traded those for NOS 5751 GE 5 Star as it was too edgy. FWIW it takes about 1 hour to cool down and start up different signal tubes, and there is no biasing. That being said I was very impressed with the new production Tung Sol’s. I’m loaning them to a friend that I trade tubes with to try in his guitar amps. The one thing the JJ’s are very good for is filling the spot when you ship for repair or to sell the gear. I have a 12 wpc Had Inspire that takes a rectifier tube in addition to input and power tubes and all three positions are self biasing. I have 6 rectifier, 7 input and 6 pair of power tubes ALL NOS. I can tell a difference in all of it. I also have 4-5 pair of new production power tubes and can tell with those too, but only 2 pair are the same value as I can roll from EL34 to KT150. To answer the actual question posed , yes I would still use tube gear. However I’m very concerned about the quality of new production power tubes. On my low power system I’ve been able to avoid room treatments by tube rolling. But with the higher power gear still breaking in and not being properly setup I can already tell I’ll need treatment. One thing I’ve heard but not experienced is “ gear that plays just as well with the new production tubes provided Vs tube rolling. Maybe some of the heavy hitters with manufacturing experience will chime in on that. So todays problem is do I trust buying an octet of new Tung Sol KT-120’s to replace the Psvane KT-88’s that Rogue currently ships with. But I can just spend $1100 with Uncle Chester and rest assured that he has the best on the planet. Or get out my shoe box full of lightly used SED Winged C’s and enjoy sonic bliss. Whoo hoo , Life is Good, Mike B. |
I have a tube integrated and an all tube phono stage. The integrated uses 3 JJ 12au7s in the gain and driver stage and a quad of unidentifiable 6L6GCs in the power output stage. The only identifying features I can see through the vents on the top are the plates and the bases of which there is no silk screening on either. What I can see suggests maybe German made TAD but their catalog example has a red base wherein the amp's are black or a Psvane that has the same plate structure and a black base. A more definitive identification might be possible if I could see the getters. Either way Luxman says nothing about tube life other than that the implementation promotes reliability and long tube life and that Mickying with them in any way voids the tubes 3-year warranty. So, I can only go with that. My phono stage on the other hand is the manufacturers special addition which incorporates Genelex Gold Lion 12ax7LPS/B759s with Mundorf silver, gold and oil capacitors with Teflon coated, silver plated wire point to point. I don't think it can be tricked out any better than this and you should hear it! Further I think all the suggestions regarding tube "rolling" is a little insane simply because you can't demo duplicate copies of your equipment side by side to make a definitive judgement and going through all the trouble of re-biasing and warming the amps up to their fullest potential leaves you without any subjective means of judging the sound differences because your brain forgot what it heard the second you stopped listening to the previous set of tubes. What a crock! |
I would say there is no substitute for great design. In simple inexpensive amps perhaps the tube can get you somewhere better and more sophisticated. But for carefully designed high end amps, the tubes are chosen for availability and general character and then the rest of the component is designed to achieve a very specific sound. The goal is the specific sound characteristics… and all the components are chosen to achieve it. I am certain this is how companies like VAC, Conrad Johnson, and Audio Resesrch create their components. I have heard an interview here and there that supports this as well as worked with high end audio engineers. So you can change their sound… but typically the sound quality is balanced on a knife edge between a number of characteristics and it’s only likely to be different but unlikely to be more sophisticated. |
