Wilson Audio Specialties Chronosonic XVX loudspeaker!! only $300,000.oo

I think, most of very expensive audio equipment goes to Asia these days.
What some say about how it is here applies even more there.
Few hard working people will spend million dollars on a "stupid stereo'. Some will but those will be more of exceptions.

simonmoon102 posts04-30-2021 1:27pm

$300,000 buys a lot of concerts....you know...live music? Reality? For years....Probably decades...

I constantly see this type of comment pop up on threads about very expensive audio gear. But all one has to do, is give it a modicum of thought and apply a bit of rational thinking to it, to see it just doesn’t hold up.

Think about the kind of income level one would have to be at to afford these speakers (and all the other gear to match them).

Now, do you really think an owner of a pair of Chronosonic XVX really has to worry about forgoing going to see live music in order to own them?

I am a member of the largest audiophile club in the world, the Los Angeles, Orange County Audio Society. Quite a few members have extreme high end systems. Funny thing is, (pre covid), I would see them at jazz clubs, local rock shows, and classical concerts at Disney Hall on a regular basis.

One does not need to spend six or seven figures to get spectacular sound in a home. At that level, it simply becomes an exercise in ego, excess, and pretentiousness. Not my thing. I’m more of a performance/value kind of guy. If spending $1,000,000 for a system is your thing, more power to you. I’m also allowed to say I think it’s absurd. The sheer snobbery of extreme high end hifi is extremely off-putting, especially when one asks about specs. My 30 years of attendance at CES has reinforced that opinion. If someone has made a fortune managing other people’s money, or in the stock market, silicon valley, venture capital...whatever...Spend it however you want. Some of these people have ruined the market for musicians by driving late 50s sunburst Les Paul prices to the moon...and they can’t even play guitar, but they have billions of dollars to spend on anything they want. AND...manufacturers TARGET buyers like this, regardless if anything can be proven WHY this stuff justifies the stratospheric pricing...other than ego gratification. 

I've seen too many rich guys that buy the best equipment thinking it makes them a better musician. It doesn't. It takes actual practice...and some natural talent. Money simply can't buy everything.

$300,000 buys a lot of concerts....you know...live music? Reality? For years....Probably decades...

I constantly see this type of comment pop up on threads about very expensive audio gear. But all one has to do, is give it a modicum of thought and apply a bit of rational thinking to it, to see it just doesn't hold up.

Think about the kind of income level one would have to be at to afford these speakers (and all the other gear to match them).

Now, do you really think an owner of a pair of  Chronosonic XVX really has to worry about forgoing going to see live music in order to own them?

I am a member of the largest audiophile club in the world, the Los Angeles, Orange County Audio Society. Quite a few members have extreme high end systems. Funny thing is, (pre covid), I would see them at jazz clubs, local rock shows, and classical concerts at Disney Hall on a regular basis. 

Well I saw the speaker(s) at RMAF 2019, emphasis on "saw".  There was only one and it was obviously not connected.  Also meet Daryl Wilson and his mother.  Very nice people indeed.  That was in the Wilson room or more correctly in the adjoining room to the actual working display.  The attention to detail on the big Wilsons is extraordinary. Having said that, the Wilson display was one of the worst at the show. It was a small pair with Wilson subs.  I listened to it for a while because I couldn't believe how flat, uninvolving and simply not musical it was.  And this is with the man himself in the next room.  And for some reason the guys in charge of the room were condescending when I requested a brochure.  

I have no gripe with Wilson, just reporting it as it happened.

For my money the best sounding speakers at the show were these beauties:  https://www.bendingwaveusa.com/product/divin-majestic/

Hands down, by far.  Yes, $240k!  But OMG.

Regards,
barts

I have never been able to get past the Wilson aesthetic.  They look like robots with bad posture.

My wife would move me out of the house if I bought these.  They must sound incredible.  Wonder what you would pair with these.  Where could you put a speaker like these?  You would need to put these in a $3 million home.

A realtor sends me listings in my area and I have yet to see a pair of speakers sitting in a room.  Can’t understand.  They will buy a $5,0000 entertainment furniture with a 65” TV and they are listening to their TV speakers.  The hi-fi industry is doing a poor job.  Tons of room for growth.

perki,
It would make these people feel better if the rich gave everything away to them. Because, of course, they deserve it. 

I will just say that when I was buying my Magnepan .7s at a local dealer (Audio Concepts in Dallas), I heard what seriously sounded like a live combo from around the corner. When I looked, it was a pair of Wilson’s, I think Alexandrias or something like that, fed from a Linn TT and I don’t recall what amplification. I like my components simple — and certainly shy of costing six figures — but I will acknowledge that those speakers were outstanding.

Doug I will read your upcoming review, but I meet most of your advice, based on past experience, with more than the typical amount of skepticism. I will add that a single amp does not a species make. I suspect it will be a Class D type design and nothing you will write will change the immutable fact that low impedance loads are bad.

Stop the nonsense about making judgements regarding the people who can afford this level of speaker. It stinks of the 21st century progressivism and it presupposes a lack of charity the level of which is unknown. People who write this type of crap are judgmental tools who subscribe to some fictional narrative usually put forth by those who dont instead of do. 

If you crusaders want to make the world a better place, go out and start a lively discussion about some "forbidden" topic. Hopefully start this discussion with some college student and make them really uncomfortable. 

If audition_audio wishes to learn something, my next amp review will explain my comment above. Perhaps if audition_audio is willing to humble himself, he could learn something, and gain improved performance for his Quad 63 from my advice.

Why is it, people think that the wealthy do not donate? Who do you think provide the largest contributions to various charities and institutions?

Perhaps it would make you feel better if they gave everything away?

What percentage should someone be allowed to keep for themselves? What should they be required to give away? What are they allowed to spend money on?

Oh, and while you’re at it, how about you set the maximum price for things. Set a limit to how far something can be developed. That’ll will be useful. 
Genius

If, on this thread, we deleted every post by someone who 1) has never actually heard the Wilson Audio XVX speakers, 2) has never been to Michael Fremer's listening room, or 3) has not applied a completely arbitrary calculation of "overpriced" based on his/her personal, idiosyncratic financial situation, would any more than this post and a couple of other posts remain?

I have not historically been a fan of Wilson Audio loudspeakers, especially any model with a metal dome tweeter.  I have heard several of the most ambitious, state-of-the-art dynamic driver speakers available today (not in the same room and at the same time, of course).  I hear from the XVX a transparency I think I have not heard from other cone midrange speakers.  I truly can listen to this speaker at a lower volume level without losing sonic information or details.  (Most dynamic driver speaker manufacturers claim this, but I've never experienced it before.)

I think the XVX + Master Subsonics is the dynamic driver speaker system I would want to take home.  I find Michael's review to be excellent and accurate.

Let;s see:  Beautiful Ferrari, or horribly ugly speakers.  I guess you need to be able to afford both, but surely someone, somewhere makes exceptional sounding, beautiful speakers for someone who has over a quarter of a million dollars to blow, and can still afford the electronics to drive them.. For me, it would be the 4 way Nautulis and the necessary 8 channels of 350 watts each  needed to drive them.  If I were that wealthy, and self-centered enough to not help the less fortunate among us (Versus setting up a tax write off disguised as a charity), it would be the Audio Research amps that need a separate HVAC system for cooling.  One floor model pair is at Audio Advisors in WPB, FL for half price of about $40,000. Now, where can I find three more pair, aad a good contractor?  Oh, yeah , the unemployed!

Here's my 20c:I have heard them with the unrelenting D'Agostinos driving. Plus, have heard a number of WA products across the years, always mated with similarly priced amps that can deliver extreme current at near shorts.The crazy impedance valley in the midbase is a WAs signature, most of their speakers have them, it is the result of the configuration of their two base drivers. I do not mind that it's only 2R, but what I really mind is that the speakers are often showcased (not by WA but by reviewers) as "4R speakers", which is not true. Apparently there is a great reluctance from the reviewers to admit to the fact that we have more and more 2R speakers on the market. Well, that was just a side note...The listening experience, unbiased by the price tag:
They truly sound spectacular. They reminded me as the ULTIMATE PA experience. Imagine that you are at a live amplified show, and they do the best amplification that's humanely possible. That's the experience they are giving. Big soundstage like a live event, but with razor-sharpness.
If you love jazz, and female vocals, they will deliver you an exceptional experience (when driven by matching amp).However, they do not work for classical music, as each of the drivers has a tonality of its own. Although the individual drivers' timing is spot-on, but their acoustic phases are off. After hearing piano on it I almost ran out. It was detailed, but sounded as if each octave was played on a different instrument.So, it's not a universal speaker - works wonders for jazz, but can't play classical.Also, it can play with tremendous force and SPL, but also gives tremendous listening fatigue. Can't help it - dome tweeters can't provide 100+dB SPL without being seriously distressed. Want 100-120dB level high frequencies sustained without ear fatigue - you have to go compression drivers, no other choice. This is not Wilson's fault, it affects all dome tweeters.
Also, the comment on huge soundstage: I welcomed that effect, it is much more realistic than the muppet shows we are used to by our venerable bookshelves and floorstanders in our living rooms. While the image can be overwhelming on a solo guitar, it is lifelike on a full-size rock band or a big event. As others commented, all speakers capable of delivering the full weight of a full band do throw that big picture - and they also show intimate stuff big as well, so there's no single solution. There are big pies and small pies, one size (stomach) does not fit (house) all.

In real life they are super impressive, look like real works of art. They are not my kind of aesthetics, but I do appreciate them, and the creativity that went into creating them. Also understand that modern art lovers can easily fall in love with them - both visual, and the sound.
My road is low power zero (or very little) feedback tube amps and high impedance efficient speakers - well, I am a classical music lover, and also a firm believer of building my own system, so it fits my dreams and I'm not limited to the dreams of a company desginer / engineer. Even when listening to jazz, I listen to the harmonic content as well, not just the impact, speed and resolution.
The vast majority of jazz lovers tend to love the WA sound unconditionally. I mean jazz lover audiophiles with 30-40 years of audio history. I have noticed that about 75% of those who heard it said that was the best stereo sound they ever heard in their life.

Yes I have a pair of Quad 63s and only drive it with tubes. But, I have heard, some feedback helps in this process. Correct me if I am wrong, but I think that it is the swing on the Quads that is the problem. I think that the reason for the impedance curves on ESLs is pretty intrinsic while on dynamics speakers it is more of a design choice.

Uhm hum...

perkri406 posts04-29-2021 12:51pm"Dismissal. Arrogance. Ignorance. Disrespect.

Most of these come with age and experience, as well as a healthy skepticism for things with extreme price tags."


Hot news flash. These are precisely the personality defects one is supposed to leave behind with experience and wisdom. These are not places where one should aspire to arrive at.

Hotter news flash. The dismissal, arrogance, ignorance, and disrespect displayed by the ilk of yours, oftentimes gets met with the likes of Newton's Third Law. You get what you give...and it's learned with experience...and enough self esteem to give it right back, bub.

@audition__audio 

Low impedances,  certainly are not my preferred scenario. When I brought my ESL-57's home, and looking at the impedance curve, I was a bit concerned with what I drove them with. If given the option of what impedance speaker I would get - if the manufacturer offered that option - my preference would be to go higher.

Having said that, if there was a speaker that did have a impedance dip or peak, and if I liked how it sounded (ESL-57...) I would just be aware of the demands on the amp. So, tubes for the ESL's it is!

And there are amps that will manage low impedances without straining very much. But I do agree, any part of the system that is stressed, is not going to be operating at it's best.

Doug, perhaps you need to talk with both amp and speaker designers before making a ridiculous statement as you did above about speaker impedance. Remember that you are attempting to attract people to your writing and the best way to do this would to be correct in what you say. In what world is a low impedance load preferable to a high impedance load when discussing amplifiers? Just because an amp doesnt blow up doesnt mean that it is happy with such a load and furthermore that the amp will behave the same in terms of sonics. Please tell me that a low impedance load is preferable to a high impedance load. Even better, please tell me that this issue is entirely amplifier dependent. 

If one is going to spend $300K on a speaker, there would only be one choice.  The MBL 101 Extremes.

"Dismissal. Arrogance. Ignorance. Disrespect.

Most of these come with age and experience, as well as a healthy skepticism for things with extreme price tags."


Hot news flash. These are precisely the personality defects one is supposed to leave behind with experience and wisdom. These are not places where one should aspire to arrive at.

@perkri

”300k is a heck of a lot of money for a component.
It could be argued that those very few who have the means to buy these ultra high end products are taking the manufacturers R&D to new levels as they realize these products. There is always trickle down from this R&D. Guess who benefits? We do. I, for one, am glad they get to develop and build these crazy things. It’s at the edge of feasibility that breakthroughs happen...”

+1 correct

perkri402 posts04-29-2021 4:45am@edgewoundtootightly    

You remind me of someone who was once spewing the same rhetoric, kenjit seem to remember his name though.

So simple. Now, how about adding an animated feature film to your list of fantasies - just use your super duper computer.

See, it’s this kind of dismissal of just how difficult it is to make an amazing component that is so sad. It’s a combination of arrogance, ignorance as well as being completely disrespectful of the sheer time and energy goes into a product, that’s not even beginning to address the skill, experience and knowledge required to build a world class component.

Dismissal. Arrogance. Ignorance. Disrespect. 

Most of these come with age and experience,  as well as a healthy skepticism for things with extreme price tags.

@inna 

300k is a heck of a lot of money for a component. 
It could be argued that those very few who have the means to buy these ultra high end products are taking the manufacturers R&D to new levels as they realize these products. There is always trickle down from this R&D. Guess who benefits? We do. I, for one, am glad they get to develop and build these crazy things. It’s at the edge of feasibility that breakthroughs happen...

@edgewoundtootightly    

You remind me of someone who was once spewing the same rhetoric, kenjit seem to remember his name though. 

So simple. Now, how about adding an animated feature film to your list of fantasies - just use your super duper computer.

See, it’s this kind of dismissal of just how difficult it is to make an amazing component that is so sad. It’s a combination of arrogance, ignorance as well as being completely disrespectful of the sheer time and energy goes into a product, that’s not even beginning to address the skill, experience and knowledge required to build a world class component.

Honestly... I could source...or have built the most technically advanced transducers...source a CNC machine shop to fabricate the most acoustically inert enclosure...or have it 3D printed from the most exotic materials available... and charge $300,000 for a loudspeaker system that would not ask too much from the most technically advanced amplifiers available...and have a profit of over $250,000.00 per unit pair. I think I’ll do that...and then profess that you need speaker cables that that are $50,000.00 per 8 foot pair that will need to be acquired in order to unlock the potential of my $300,000 speaker system, and $20,000 interconnects to unlock the virtual reality 3D holographic live performance image that no other cable technology can hope to project. Simply send your funds to PayPal at edgewound@aol.com. $500,000.00 will get your order in process. Thank you so very much in advance for your business!
(Typed on an HP laptop purchased at Costco for <$600 and able to communicate to a global audience, demonstrating the value of technology and it’s worth.) But please...send me $500,000 for the most amazing high fidelity experience you'll ever experience in either life...or the afterlife...in my opinion.

Right. Regardless of cost I am always interested in the very best equipment, in what is possible to achieve in sound reproduction. If these Wilsons are among a handful of the very best speakers available then it is perfectly fine that they cost $300k. But let’s not devalue money, $300k is an awful lot for just one component.

Again, I agree.

There is a tremendous divide when it comes to how much people can apply to their system.

Having said that, this is a High End website, and as such, anyone who comes to any website that is a forum to discuss any high end item/activity, should be able to maintain an open mind.

I do understand, though, that these obscene prices are insult to many. This is not necessarily an envy or not only envy. Most jobs don't pay that well to own such a system. When we speak of, say, $100k system, that's different. It is still very expensive but not obscenely expensive and within the reach of relatively many.

@inna 

I agree, suspect I wouldn't be setting up a million dollar system if I had the means either :)

But, I'm not going to place judgement on someone who does as so many seem to like to do.(Not saying you are...) No skin off my teeth what someone decides to do with their money.

+1 Perkri 

Some people here try to touch upon the concept of intrinsic value, and rightly so.
As for the look, they look alright to me, they are speakers not whatever, you know.
With speakers costing that much we are talking about close to a million dollars system. Is any audio system, aside from pro studio, worth million dollars ? Not to me.

From what I gather, these were never intended to be a production speaker, they were meant for himself and a handful of friends. Here was someone who had spent their life building and designing speakers, why wouldn't he want to build the precursors to these?

Back in the early 90's, I happened into a high end store and they had a pair of Grand Slamms hooked up in one of their listening rooms. That was my first experience of a true high end system. I remember telling the story of my experience to all my friends - audiophile or not - about this insane system I had just listened to and the physical experience of it.

Only Wilsons I've ever heard. Left an impression for sure. Can't say I am a fan from that one encounter of their product, but I can say, I am a fan of high end!

And I am not a fan of petty people who how have nothing better to do than to take a crap on things that cost more than they think they should. Especially when most have never heard the items they are slamming.

And who cares why someone buys something. Be that a painting, vintage sports car, a riffle from the Civil War or any other collector item.

Contrary to popular belief, not everyone who makes a ton of money is a crook. Who do you think builds the industries that provide work to so many?

And the whole thing "only a fool would spend that much on a pair of speakers...". Well, got a hot news flash for you. If they have managed to build a personal fortune that makes it possible to get a pair of 300K speakers, with all the "right stuff" to go with it (a million dollar set up) I'm going to go out on a limb and say they are most likely WAAAAAAAAY smarter than you. Just sayin'.

Well, if you're a rich dude like Bernie Madoff, Michael Milken, Ken Lay, Ivan Boesky, Jeff Skilling and Donald Trump, no problem, you can use one's ill gotten gains to enjoy the good life.  Hah!

I wonder how many pairs of those Wilson’s will go to actual audiophiles. There is a tendency in our country to equate price with how good something must be.  I am only guessing but I imagine someone who purchases a pair of those Wilsons is doing it to display their wealth more than anything else

With these and most Wilson speakers form follows function. If I was committed enough to purchase them, I would certainly appreciate them in there entirety, for the sound they are capable of producing and decorate my audio area appropriately to integrate their look.

Quite frankly after a decade of ugly black boxes followed by ugly black towers that I subjected my partner to in the name of better sound, these beautifully finished speakers would be imposing but an improvement. Personally I think my partner would appreciate them because she knows the commitment I made to my career and her to provide us with the comfortable life and the large place in we live (large enough that she would never have to see them), that if they make me happy (after she gave me grief for actually spending twice as much on speakers as our first house), and she thinks I deserve the rewards I have earned.

wow! That's a window to a world.

@douglas_schroeder 

Exactly.

 These speakers would present no impedance problem. But, you would have to understand the state of amplification in the industry today to know that. 

Some audiophiles cannot separate personal fiscal policy, or revulsion to excess, from actual performance. I would guess that applies perhaps half the community. 

Before reviewing, when I had no real clue of the performance spectrum of HiFi systems, when I was assembling about $5K rigs, I thought all such items were ludicrous and vastly overpriced; no way they could be worth anything approaching the price. After 14 years of reviewing and hearing some of the best gear in the world, my experience of the spectrum of performance is radically different. My ownership of gear has changed, too, based on one thing - performance. I judge first on performance, then on value, which is probably the opposite of most audiophiles. It is common, however, to judge based on perceived value, as if that is a judgment of performance. Building a rig to a price point is a different activity with different outcome (not that great, despite personal opinion) than building a rig to achieve a performance level.   :)

I would think if you were buying these speakers you would just purchase whatever amplification makes them sound good... what, we are worried the owner can only afford a Rotel or NAD.

 @audition__audio  More than likely the dealer who is selling the Wilson's is also selling the D'Ag Relentless amps...and as such he can now make two sales. I wouldn't think that the big D'ag would break too much of a sweat on the new Wilsons. 

I like the looks of the speaker. But at this price I would think you could find a speaker which would work properly with more than a few amps. You cant escape the fact that low impedance speakers make amps work too hard. 

With these and most Wilson speakers form follows function. If I was committed enough to purchase them, I would certainly appreciate them in there entirety, for the sound they are capable of producing and decorate my audio area appropriately to integrate their look.

Quite frankly after a decade of ugly black boxes followed by ugly black towers that I subjected my partner to in the name of better sound, these beautifully finished speakers would be imposing but an improvement. Personally I think my partner would appreciate them because she knows the commitment I made to my career and her to provide us with the comfortable life and the large place in we live (large enough that she would never have to see them), that if they make me happy (after she gave me grief for actually spending twice as much on speakers as our first house), and she thinks I deserve the rewards I have earned.

Cant remember which show it was, but I heard a Wilson speaker with LAMM. It was actually very good until someone asked that they turn up the volume and then not so much. Wilson with S.S., to date, has never worked for me.

I find them to be extremely unattractive...and extremely overpriced.
 I have no desire to own a Wilson Audio loudspeaker system. Never have, never will.
It’s also my prerogative to opine that $300K is ridiculous for these uber ugly monstrosities.

That fine, and it’s your opinion, say it once and move on.
Others including myself can really appreciate their swiss made exactness fit and finish and the way every Wilson made has sounded great with the rights amp/s.
They can’t be powered by gutless flee powered, small current limited amps, and those amp lovers hate Wilsons for that.

Cheers George

It’s also my prerogative to opine that $300K is ridiculous for these uber ugly monstrosities.

Getting your feelings hurt over it is pretty juvenile. Wouldn’t the world just be a whole lot better if everyone simply loved everything? And believed anything anyone told them? Happy happy, happy....blindly happy.

+10 @perkri. 
It's absurd at how many justify what they have spent on their system and yet find these speakers, or any other high priced audio item overpriced.   If they can afford it, kudos to them. When visitors see my modest system,  most think I'm crazy for investing/ spending that much on music playback. Most of them think those funds would have been better spent/ invested elsewhere.   Enjoy what you have and let others enjoy what they have and can afford. 

Respectfully, 
Jose

I think they would be quite interesting to hear, based on the past two good showings of Maxx 3 and Lamm, and Alexx with D’Agostino.
Owners certainly won't care what you think. :)

Now, I have no idea what kind of computer you are using, or what it’s main purpose is, but I am going to guess its a home type computer?

Most likely not the kind of high performance machine required to do computer animation or any other high math demanding application.

A fully pimped out Mac Pro retails for 67K CDN...

So yeah, we can pick up speakers that will indeed produce sound for very few $$$’s, but at what level? Much like we can get computers for comparatively few $$$’s.

Who cares what someone is selling or someone else is buying? Who cares what someone is charging or what someone is paying?

None, I repeat none, of what we put in our systems is needed. None of it.

Everything we have in our home systems is in the realm of want. Need, is not a part of it.

Does anyone need 300K speakers? No, but then no one needs a $50 speaker to listen to music either. They are both the same in that they are rooted in wants. We want to listen to music.

And yeah, I know, there’s the argument coming my way that we need art in our lives. As an artist, I would like to think we do, but in reality we don’t need art to survive.

Do these "things" improve the quality of our lives? Sure.

Being an audiophile is a want, not a need.

So, there is no difference between wanting a $50.00 pair of Minimus 7’s vs wanting a pair of 300K Wilsons other than the means of being able to facilitate that want...