Wifi vs ethernet revisited

You need IP address for the daisy chained router being used for whole house wifi, switch doesn't provide this. Only managed switch can assign IP addresses.

Thanks @sns   not to be nit picky but why the wireless? I (and probably you) would disable that anyway because of a separate mesh system. What about the MikroTik hES X instead? Ignore if this is getting too detailed. 

I use Netgear XR1000, I went with this for speed, 1GB cable service, provider servers very close to me so very fast ping times. I'm familiar with Netgear software reason I went with them, just look for speed, you want low latency with entire network, optimize speed and isolation and you're gold.

please correct me if I misunderstood, but after each ethernet run to each of my two audio systems (one of them is over 40'), I have a short fiber-optic "moat" which gets reconverted to ethernet via etherregens before they enter the audio system; already noted in my original post. Would that not suffice against surges? (And point taken on the iFi.)

Sorry, yes it would! :)  Though worth noting that once a surge is in a wire (coax or Ethernet) it can go through connected devices to the AC.  That is, your fiber adapter itself can be a surge path via the AC.  So if you use this, make sure the power supply for the Ethernet --> Fiber converter is outside your surge protector, and your Fiber --> Ethernet (if any) is on the INSIDE of your surge protector.   Still, this is the approach I use to air gap between my incoming cable modem and Wifi router.  A 1m air gap with a good surge protector for the AC wall warts.    I also use a gas discharge coaxial surge protector OUTSIDE my home. 

@sns would a Ubiquiti Dream Router be a good recommendation for a main router in your setup, or would you suggest something else. I guess there must be something simpler as I don't need the main router to have wifi. Thanks so much.

@sns let me take that back. In theory I could isolate both audio systems (plus Roon server) on one LAN port and run an Eero mesh in bridge mode on the other port, and keep them all on the same subnet. It does not solve the problem of a long ethernet run for one of the audio systems, but it separates the wifi completely, which is also worth trying. Thanks.

OP: I can’t seem to read a good forum thread where the usual stuttering’/buffering problems (that we all know about)

Apparently, I don’t know about it. My WiFi has been rock-solid with an 8 year old Auralic Aries streamer. No hiccups at all. Perhaps, it's because both TX/RX are extremely tricked-out. I’m very pleased with my Fidelizer Audio Airstream.

@sns yes, obviously, and I agree. I do have that setup. The problem is that I have a second audio system at the other end of the apartment.

@erik_squires (and @fthompson251) please correct me if I misunderstood, but after each ethernet run to each of my two audio systems (one of them is over 40'), I have a short fiber-optic "moat" which gets reconverted to ethernet via etherregens before they enter the audio system; already noted in my original post. Would that not suffice against surges? (And point taken on the iFi.)

Don't understand why others don't try this. Run your ethernet provider output next to your audio system (modem next to your stack). Short run of high quality ethernet cable to gaming router, disable wifi in this router (for audio system only), run long ethernet cable to second router, this now serves as wifi router for rest of house. From router ethernet to network optimizer (in my case JCAT NetCard XE, and then fiber conversion via your choice of converters (I use Sonore). Every single piece on audio system LPS and power conditioner.

Running wifi on audio system network adds noise, switching power supplies same, I've found cheaper ethernet cable inferior to higher quality, ie higher resolution/transparency with better cable ( short length of high quality ethernet out of modem much preferable to the long length cheaper cable most running from remote modem). Keep all cabling short as possible, all quality cabling, no switching power supply, optimizing every single component in streaming setup has to be considered. In my case no switch, I've tried audiophile switch, vs optimized audio system only router, adding switch inferior, adds needless complexity.

FWIW, kinda on the same line on this topic. I have an LHY EFI fiber optic isolator being delivered today. I will not be able to try it for a few weeks until I return home. It internally isolates wired ethernet to optical and back. I am going to place in front of my audiophile switch that feeds my Streamer and a DAC to start.

https://www.beatechnik.com/product-page/lhy-audio-efi

I do have a couple of tips. If using Ethernet over long runs (20’ or more) use an IEC 60601 certified isolator at the end of the run. It adds 4kV of surge protection. Don’t use shorting Ethernet surge protectors. EverStar is cheapest, TrippLite, and Eaton have some at 2-3x the price. Nothing worse than losing a stack of equipment over blown network plugs. Audiophile versions are typically not tested to this standard so no idea how they’ll perform.

The other is if you have network devices near your audio/video gear consider upgrading the wall warts with iFi versions. They inject less noise back into your AC, but are typically 2x the cost of your Ethernet switch to begin with. 

@erik_squires thank you for your advice. I have a very long run of Ethernet cable to the switch followed by fiber etc as described earlier. I’m going to try option 4 as per @soix’s suggestion as well. Will leave it on for a few days — assuming the immediate sq is equivalent as I suspect it will be — and then take a call. (Though maybe it’s best to leave well enough alone as you suggest.)

erik_squires

... for critical path things like my work PC and streaming I stick to hard wired. That way when things don’t work I know it’s NOT the Wifi ...

Exactly! A wired network removes a whole layer of complexity.

Great post Eric

It would be interesting to hear your thoughts on #4 if you get around to it as it would be a more apples-to-apples comparison with #1.  Or I suppose taking fiber out of #1 and comparing to #3 could also be interesting.  In any event it’s interesting stuff, and thanks for sharing. 

I think most of this depends on the quality of your streamer.

I know you said to ignore Wifi issues, which is fine, but for critical path things like my work PC and streaming I stick to hard wired. That way when things don’t work I know it’s NOT the Wifi. Now, as for the rest of it, your stream comes down via a series of switches, possibly dozens, and shares the Internet freeqay with news, video, games, porn and billions of Internet of Things (IoT) devices before it gets to you. The music parceled out and put on the freway to be reconstructed at your streamer. Sometimes packets even arrive out of order, and often several packets don’t even take the same path to get to you but your streamer has to put it all together again in the right sequence. No regenerator or galvanic isolator is going to change that.

At best, at the very best we might be able to reduce the noise, and the risk of a cable based surge. The streamers (video and audio) all work by buffering. They hold several seconds of data in memory and dole it out as the TV or DAC needs it. In live video conferencing the buffers are shorter but still there.

Now, are all Wifi appliances equivalent? I don’t know. It’s quite possible some Mesh devices have a lot lower Internet jitter than others, and therefore are better at feeding your streamer, but again, the streamer should hold several seconds of data, and 100 to 200 milliseconds of jitter shouldn’t have anything t o do with it.

So, I only see two real differences in your options. 1 - Ethernet, 2, Mesh.

The other thing to consider is I really like to keep cheap wall warts outside of my power conditioned audio AC, so I also prefer to minimize devices that could potentially pollute that.  That includes PC's, mesh routers, etc. , so IMHO if you can remove all that  and stick to 1 Ethernet cable that's pretty good, though I admit to using fiber to air gap my incoming Internet from my Wifi router, but that's for surge paranoia.