Why HiFi Gear Measurements Are Misleading (yes ASR talking to you…)
About 25 years ago I was inside a large room with an A-frame ceiling and large skylights, during the Perseid Meteor Shower that happens every August. This one time was like no other, for two reasons: 1) There were large, red, fragmenting streaks multiple times a minute with illuminated smoke trails, and 2) I could hear them.
Yes, each meteor produced a sizzling sound, like the sound of a frying pan.
Amazed, I Googled this phenomena and found that many people reported hearing this same sizzling sound associated with meteors streaking across the sky. In response, scientists and astrophysicists said it was all in our heads. That, it was totally impossible. Why? Because of the distance between the meteor and the observer. Physics does not allow sound to travel fast enough to hear the sound at the same time that the meteor streaks across the sky. Case closed.
ASR would have agreed with this sound reasoning based in elementary science.
Fast forward a few decades. The scientists were wrong. Turns out, the sound was caused by radiation emitted by the meteors, traveling at the speed of light, and interacting with metallic objects near the observer, even if the observer is indoors. Producing a sizzling sound. This was actually recorded audibly by researchers along with the recording of the radiation. You can look this up easily and listen to the recordings.
Takeaway - trust your senses! Science doesn’t always measure the right things, in the right ways, to fully explain what we are sensing. Therefore your sensory input comes first. You can try to figure out the science later.
I’m not trying to start an argument or make people upset. Just sharing an experience that reinforces my personal way of thinking. Others of course are free to trust the science over their senses. I know this bothers some but I really couldn’t be bothered by that. The folks at ASR are smart people too.
@prof If you say (as loud as you can) that you do not hear difference between cables, I would suggest you that you try two very different ones, lets say Cardas and Nordost. After that, if you still cant hear no difference, I would call you a lucky guy and would say that you have just saved lots of money.
The ’problem’ with your perspective and the way you communicate (you in general sense,its not personal ) is that you are not doing the same with people who claim that they hear the difference. You demand ’proof’ or either offer ’explanations’ why this person perception cant be trusted. Why would we than read about ’anylizers’, blind tests,psychoacoustics, mass psychology, etc, all in favour to your biased perspective?
Now, if that is not ’snobbery’ than its plain rude and ill mannerd behaviour.
As for the Asr crowd, the prevalent notion there is same towards cables (no differences) tubes (they ’distort’ so cant be good), vinyl (cheap digital is way better) dacs (they all sound the same if the specs are ’right’) and so on... and anything that costs more than few hundred bucks is a scam...
Now, dont get me wrong. We are all aware that audio gear has obscene prices and that lots of it is simply not sounding very good and that there is lots of marketing bs. and that there are lots of people who are caring more about the brand or the price than about performance...but they (ASR folks) are going into extreme...and thats fine, for them, or anyone who shares such perspective...but try to write there that you hear the difference between cables or that you have all tubed system and than tell me who is hostile or with whom you cant have discussion in a civil way?
Imho, this not the argument beetween two different types of opinion, but between two very different types of behaviour
Isn't the point of making these topics to discuss. I hope the op was realistic about what the replies may be. Why even have a forum if it's an echo chamber?
For developing speakers, today, far more time is spent measuring than listening in professional market speakers. That is because we do know how to translate measurements into what is heard and it is far less variable. I can't comment on consumer speakers but expect for the big ones with resources that is also the case.
I have met many people who are ’technically knowledgeable’ but have no clue how to set up a ’good’ hi fi system and vice versa.
Technically knowledgeable about what? About how audio gear works? If so, I’m doubtful about your claim. I’ve never met someone technically knowledgeable about audio gear who wasn’t able to set up a nice system. In fact there are tons of examples in the ASR forum. (Amir being one of many examples - have you seen his system?)
On the other hand, if you are calling these technically knowledgeable audiophile’s system "bad"; who made you the judge? This hints of audiophile snobbery.
We may argue what makes a ’good’ system, but if you claim that you cant hear difference between usb cables (you have mentioned such case before,it was Nordost in question) than the whole point of discussing is pointless
Discussing USB calbes would only be rendered "pointless" if YOU rendered it pointless, not me. I’m skeptical about audiophile USB cables but I don’t close the conversation: I’m open to being wrong and thus open to any good evidence they can sound different. If you refuse to discuss the issue just because someone else has a different view or experience, then that suggests a close minded dogmatism on your behalf. Why be that way? It’s just cables.
But, I really, really cant understand what drives you, (or anybody else that shares your beleifs) in a attempt where you are trying to ’explain’ to people, who have different perspective or experience, that they are ’wrong’?
Why is it confusing at all to you that an audiophile on an audio forum is bringing his perspective? What in the world do you think enthusiast sites like this are for?
In reacting to my views, I believe you are operating on a bias that you don’t see (which of course is the nature of bias). Step back and consider: Many here just assume various cables sound different, including USB cables. So if you or someone else says "I use X USB cable because it sounded better than X USB cable" you wouldn’t blink, nor would many others. It’s not uncontroversial to you to state that USB (or other) cables sound different. But as soon as another audiophile offers a different view - "I didn’t hear any difference" or...gasp...holds the view that it is highly unlikely for a USB cable to sound different!...then you seem disturbed by this and wonder what could ever drive someone to produce such opinions!
Well it’s the same thing that drives you or anyone else to give YOUR opinions. Except you seem to regard an opposing opinion as heretical - not one you want to even have a discussion with, and one that has you confuse that someone would even explain or defend. That is...really weird if you think about it.
Does any consumer needs ’Klippel Anlayzer’ or blind test, or what ever else to determine what he actually hears?
Did you notice how many times I’ve said no audiophile needs to ever even think about measurements or blind testing if they don’t want to?
However, the results of a Klippel Analysis can be correlated with what IS known about perceived sound quality in speakers. It’s been well studied what kind of measurements will tend to be perceived as "better" by listeners...only listening to the sound (and not going by what they see). It doesn’t mean it’s perfectly predictive for every individual, but it IS informative about the sonic characteristics of a speaker, and can be used to predict which speakers will be more problematic for placement in various rooms vs others.
I mean...are you just flat out rejecting any known research and any advancement in speaker measurements? I hope not. And if not...what is the problem with discussing these techniques?
Building a great hi fi system can be delicate endeavour,
Ok. But people have different approaches, and that’s ok, right?
and than we have you, the ASR crowd, for whom, most of the gear sounds the same...
I suspect you have an exaggerated notion of what the ASR crowd believes...and what I believe. I think almost every component I have sounds different from possible alternatives. (Cables less so).
which is great, but for you...do what you like, be happy and leave others to do the same...
And buried in that proposal is the bias I’ve been trying to point out to you.
Why in the world do you believe I am "not letting others do the same?"
There is literally nothing in what I’ve written denying any audiophile "has" to share the ASR approach, much less my personal approach, and in fact I’ve been explicit about that. You and others here can go on all day on your views of how cables etc sound different. Yet merely explaining my reasons for having an alternative opinion on certain things - e.g. claims made about USB cables - is characterized as some sort of harassment. Like I’m "not letting you" buy whatever you want and enjoy whatever you want.
It might be worth questioning why you take a certain view as a "default" and find yourself so hostile to alternative opinions, seeing them as harrasment, rather than just a civil exchange of viewpoints and approaches.
Yes it does, listening to lots of different systems does give you experience ...
Of course @kota1is correct. What we experience very much matters. That is problematic for those who apparently want to define our experiences for us, as evidenced by their "arguments" in this thread that are increasingly subject to deletion.
I am simply exposing a repeat violator of Audiogon policies. Is it not a violation to come back here with another username, when a previous one was banned? Not once, not twice, but at least 16 times that I am aware.
How ironic. You play the victim here, holier than thou card, yet, you have violated the Audiogon rules at least 16-17 times by coming here over and over again with different usernames, after repeatedly being banned. Are you insane?
Here is a partial list of your previous Audiogon usernames:
Listening to lots of different systems does not give you experience
Yes it does, listening to lots of different systems does give you experience.
Don’t make this all about you, you want to pretend to have experience and you don’t even have a system. If I’m mistaken please post it and some pics OK? Otherwise go get some EXPERIENCE and try to listen to someone elses system.
Nonsense. It’s obvious that children post here and when their posts violate the rules, they should be deleted just as the adults are. If you claim to be the victim of attack, flag the post for the moderators. That’s why they’re here. Don’t use "victimization" as a basis for argument.
Yes, prof is a kind a nice Missionary. Those who use a carrot to preach and convert. You on the other hand Cin Dyment, not so much. Kind of the Sword type of Missionary
If you want to make this a faith and religion discussion and talk about proof one point of view will win every honest argument.
The fundamentalist measurementalists here have already made this into a matter of faith and religion, as others have noted, and you’re just piling on with a point of view (faith) that will "win" every time.
@profis attempting to bring a balanced view and he still gets attacked.
I don’t see any attacks on @prof, although I’ve seen some from him that were deleted. In any event, attacks aren’t allowed under the rules here so there’s no need to play the victim card. Just flag the post for the moderators.
If you want to make this a faith and religion discussion and talk about proof one point of view will win every honest argument. @profis attempting to bring a balanced view and he still gets attacked. Don’t try to make it appear like you are the voice of reason when you are not.
@tcotruvoI don’t agree with @nyevbut I don’t think your depiction of him is fair. Human experience creates strong convictions. I had to do a lot of unlearning "by fire" 20 some off years ago. I had a lot of preconceived ideas based on my "experience". What someone said to me that stuck is I didn’t have experience, I had experiences. They are not the same. Because we experience something does not mean we are gaining experience. Listening to lots of different systems does not give you experience unless you understand what is different about those system and how that translates into how they sound, and even accepting that some things will make minimal or no sound change.
Measurements cannot tell if something sounds warm, bright, musical, organic, analytical, transparent, soundstage width/height/depth ... just to name a few.
This was written above. Measurements can tell you most of these things. To understand those measurements and make some conclusions or know how to achieve them takes experience and understanding how things work. Experience also tells us that your interpretation of how something may sound at least for tone is influenced by what you are already listening to as you will adapt to your current system. If you have a "warm" system and listen to another warm system it will sound normal to you. To someone else it may sound overly warm.
...I really, really cant understand what drives you, (or anybody else that shares your beleifs) in a attempt where you are trying to ’explain’ to people, who have different perspective or experience, that they are ’wrong’? I found that funny, but also very pretentious, none the less.
As @thynamealso notes, those who behave that way typically are consumed with belief ("religion") and faith, by definition, requires no proof. The rigid, fundamentalist dogma leaves no room for the infidels who refuse conversion.
As with religion, some of the fundamentalist proselytizers are soft-spoken, engaging, and even appear thoughtful. Some are harsh, brazen, and confrontational.
Occasionally, one will slip up and reveal his agenda, as in this thread:
I have no personal agenda, other than to call out over priced, under performing products when I see them. Audio is full of over priced products that don’t measure up to far cheaper alternatives.
See, he has no personal agenda, he just wants to be the savior.
Does any consumer needs ’Klippel Anlayzer’ or blind test, or what ever else to determine what he actually hears?
Absolutely yes, according the measurementalist’s faith doctrine. That’s why some component evaluations don’t even include listening. After all, listening is such a flawed exercise.
But, I really, really cant understand what drives you, (or anybody else that shares your beleifs) in a attempt where you are trying to ’explain’ to people, who have different perspective or experience, that they are ’wrong’?
That’s an observation that is spot on. I have observed it over and over again since the beginning of my involvement in the hobby some twenty years ago. The explanation is pretty simple, and can be tied to centuries/ millennia of human history: religion. Once one becomes converted to a religion, a believer, it does not stop there, they are heavily encouraged to become preachers, spread the newly acquired belief. That involves going different places, where the non-believers stay, in an attempt to convert them, make them believers. So that those “ignorants”pagans can see the Light too. Colonization, conquering, call it what you want. Thus the term “missionary”
'Anyone with enough money could purchase any speaker you want to name. Does that make someone technically knowledgeable? '
Vs.
'Someone who owns - and most important! - UNDERSTANDS how to use a Klippel Anlayzer.'
I have met many people who are 'technically knowledgeable' but have no clue how to set up a 'good' hi fi system and vice versa.We may argue what makes a 'good' system, but if you claim that you cant hear difference between usb cables (you have mentioned such case before,it was Nordost in question) than the whole point of discussing is pointless and that is fine with me.
But, I really, really cant understand what drives you, (or anybody else that shares your beleifs) in a attempt where you are trying to 'explain' to people, who have different perspective or experience, that they are 'wrong'?
I found that funny, but also very pretentious, none the less.Does any consumer needs 'Klippel Anlayzer' or blind test, or what ever else to determine what he actually hears?
Building a great hi fi system can be delicate endeavour, but imho you cant do it without lots of experience that you get by listening to very different types and pieces of gear, listening to very different systems and without some sense of hearing...and attending live acoustic concerts for esablishing some sort of reference...
In the same time, Ralph Karsten, aka the Atmasphere states that everything we hear can be messured. I trust him, but he is constructor and for him those informationa are tools. I believe that other constructors are doing the same and yet, all their gear sounds differently...and than we have you, the ASR crowd, for whom, most of the gear sounds the same...which is great, but for you...do what you like, be happy and leave others to do the same...
“He starts with a long description about a meteor event 25 years ago showing science can be wrong. So? Have doctors been wrong in the past too? Does that mean never to trust science or doctors again?”
@tcotruvo, that wasn’t the point of my anecdote, to say science was wrong. In fact, science was not wrong in this case - nothing about science was incorrect! Rather, the opinions of researchers were wrong, in terms of explaining a specific phenomenon that people were reporting. If people reported a bunch of UFO sightings and researchers didn’t believe them, that would not be an example of science being wrong. My point is that I have also encountered subjective experiences in HiFi that personally, for me alone, make me believe that things I perceive may not be in the realm of what is typically or currently measured when assessing HiFi gear. Just as with the case where I heard the meteors. It does not invalidate or make the measurements of HiFi equipment incorrect. This is a highly personal perspective that need not be adopted by anyone really, for all I care.
I’m not trying to change yours or anyone’s mind. I’m not even trying to claim that I’m right. Rather, I’m just sharing my perspective! Amir, yourself and others are of course free to share yours.
Someone’s high end acquisitions don’t give any more credibility in terms of making technical claims about audio.
That’s quite true.
... For instance, if you understood how the Klippel Analyzer System that Amir uses worked ...
Ahhhhh, but you make an exception for your favored shiny tool, for which I’m sure you’re willing to submit lengthy rationalization. Hey @prof, it’s clear you’re a smart guy. Do you not see your ill logic in this matter, or are you just funnin’ with us?
Measurements can only tell so much about the piece of equipment. At the end of the day you have to listen.
Measurements cannot tell if something sounds warm, bright, musical, organic, analytical, transparent, soundstage width/height/depth ... just to name a few.
Someone's high end acquisitions don't give any more credibility in terms of making technical claims about audio. Someone could own Magico M9 speakers and still be clueless about how audio works. Also, there is no high end brand of gear that protects someone against the same bias effects that would occur for any other audio gear.
For instance, if you understood how the Klippel Analyzer System that Amir uses worked, you wouldn’t be raising the red herring of measuring the room. The whole point of that analyzer is to REMOVE the influences of the room to gain an accurate measurement of the on and off axis behaviour of the speakers! It's why it's a revolution - you don't need an anechoic chamber to get these measurements! And from that, those measurements help predict how a speaker might perform in various rooms e.g. if a speaker sends a lot of ragged sound off-axis and you put it in a smaller room especially you are likely to get that mixed in the sound with reflections and it will sound poorer than one with even off axis behaviour...etc. Some speakers will be more finicky than others, and will also be less amenable to EQ or room correction fixes than others. ASR is literally following the best science we have on this!
I think the OP is gaslighting. He starts with a long description about a meteor event 25 years ago showing science can be wrong. So? Have doctors been wrong in the past too? Does that mean never to trust science or doctors again?
Then the OP states that Amir would have been wrong about that too. That’s a foul call.
“I’m not trying to start an argument” is patently dishonest. Just look at the fallout that followed. There are many knowledgeable and helpful people here. I choose to respect their input over those who are only looking to sow discord and confusion.
"Your posts indicate you really don’t know what you are talking about. At all."
Of course when you reject, dismiss, and deny not only a concept, idea, or proposal but an entire person, his thoughts, his ideas, his experiences, his contributions to this site, and attempt to reduce it to the trivial. the insigniificant, the unworthy, you reveal your argument, intent, and purpose to be false.
Some of the contributers here seem to tremble, quiver, or falter in the presence of facts and it is a sad sight to behold.
HiFi measurements ARE misleading (or bogus) for many reasons. Every website that measures just for measurements sake (ASR, Audioholics, Golden Sound) needs traffic to generate income. They measure things that don’t matter and talk as if they do (SNR beyond human hearing). Then they don’t measure what DOES matter because they are pretenders ( the room they measure/ listen in impacts the sound of what they measure. What is the FR curve of it? Do they even care?)
Doltish amateurs looking to condemn legitimate companies with bogus measurements to generate click bait. Horrible miscreants as some here have noted. When legit measurements don’t support their radical click bait they go into attack mode and blame the messenger.
You argue to much. Please post your system and pics of your room in the virtual system and we can discuss. You have 0 proof of any of your claims, it is time to stop telling everyone what to.
My "credibility" is posted in my virtual system, why not get some of your own?
@kota1 you posted, in a single topic, no less than 6 links to videos and articles that were either very questionable in content, or outright grossly wrong. I would appreciate if you stopped your incessant inane attempts to discredit me and worry more about your own credibility.
Amir doesn't do a perfect job. He's the first one to point out that, far from running a "cult", his reviews are often put under heavy scrutiny - and criticism where warranted - by ASR members.
Those things are called "reality". If you want to be a part of "reality" please post your system and pics online, otherwise you have 0 facts, fundamental or otherwise.
Whatever gear thespeakerdude happens to own has no bearing on whether his statements are true or not.
@prof Amir measures to many pieces of audio gear to really do a good job, and when a mistake comes to light he corrects it, on what page 10 when he could easily put it in the OP.
But there are some fundamental facts of how things work that cannot be ignored either.
Those things are called "reality". If you want to be a part of "reality" please post your system and pics online, otherwise you have 0 facts, fundamental or otherwise.
Of course it isn’t a subjective claim. It’s an objective empirical claim. It’s either true or false, and testable.
I don’t think ASR has any data on whether something is within or beyond our hearing threshold.
Then you aren’t familiar with ASR. Amir often references studied threshholds for human hearing (including as I recall, tests he was part of producing in developing codecs).
The tests they produce cannot be used to say whether something sounds warm, bright, musical, thin, analytical, has a wide/narrow soundstage ... and so much more.
1. Blind tests can determine if there is a detectable difference in any of those qualities between different gear.
2. I don’t mean this as an insult, but you seem to be projecting your own ignorance of what is known about the correlation of measurements and what we hear. We know plenty about what combination of harmonics create which timbres (how do you think synths have managed to mimic real instruments). Any good mixer understands which frequency changes will influence most of the qualities you mention:
I use EQ all the time to alter warmth, body, brightness, thinness, etc.
So if you know enough about frequency response, you can predict to a certain degree how various deviations from neutral will sound (and Amir provides among the best measurements you can get, including for speakers).
You CAN predict what you won’t hear via many measurements. And when it comes to complex outputs like speakers, it may be difficult to totally predict how you will hear something from the measurements, but that is different from the outright denial of the correlation of measurements to sonic character that you seem to be arguing.
That statement in itself is subjective. I don't think ASR has any data on whether something is within or beyond our hearing threshold. The tests they produce cannot be used to say whether something sounds warm, bright, musical, thin, analytical, has a wide/narrow soundstage ... and so much more. At the end of the day, you just have to listen.
@profThanks for your answer, sane, sensible and complete enough.
@amir_asrYou sir, have more patience than I do, bless you.
to all you guys believing in burn in requirements of more than that required to reach a stable operating temperature: How do you know that the most variable element in your listening is YOU and YOU might just be the element that has "improved" it's hearing/interpretation of the music???
One last comment for me: I have clearly heard differences in cables, but they always seem to correlate with cable diameter and quality terminations, beyond that 😁
It’s a forum that looks to more objective or reliable ways of evaluating audio gear, essentially taking the lessons from science as to the importance of controlling for variables, seeking more reliable results, etc.
Basically, if an audio manufacturer makes some claims for their product, the ASR approach is to not simply rely on the subjective anecdotes of audiophiles, but to look to measurements first of all to see if they claims are plausible or justified, and also when possible to control for sighted bias for listening tests (blind testing).
The site founder, Amir, is highly technically qualified and knowledgeable, owns some of the best measurement tools you can get, and has produced a huge number of gear reviews - speakers, amps, dacs, phono stages, cables, you name it. ASR has made huge waves in the audiophile community and Amir’s video reviews are filled with appreciative comments for the knowledge and gear evluation he is putting out.
Why should you care?
Well, depends on what you care about. How much do you care whether a claim about a piece of gear is true or not? If you are in the "if I think I (or someone else) hears a difference, that’s all I need" camp, then ASR won’t be for you.
But if you care more deeply about what is really going on with audio gear, to understand it, and use that knowledge to make decisions, then it can be very helpful.
For instance Amir has reviewed expensive cables (USB for instance) from Nordost and other companies, and shown they don’t improve the signal at all, certainly not in any audible way, over readily available cheaper cables. It would be up to you what you do with such information. Some audiophiles will always stick with "what I think I hear" and discard such evaluations. Others (like myself) will use this information to learn what to worry about or not in audio, and I’ll prefer to put my money to gear that is more likely to improve the sound.
In my example above, there is little chance I was imagining the longer USB cable sounding better than the shorter one when I was biased to thinking the opposite.
Unless your bias against the longer one caused you to listen with more focus that allowed you to hear detail that you missed before? You cannot say with complete confidence that that was not the case.
I did not note what differences you perceived between the longer and shorter cable. I am not saying this is the case for your test, but it is common that the differences reported between two components are simply impossible with the change that was made. I do understand your point with the meteor, often there are unintended consequences, we see that in product design all the time. But there are some fundamental facts of how things work that cannot be ignored either.
@kenjit, fair point. But I don’t think we can treat all subjective experiences equally. We can be more certain of some subjective experiences than others. If I were to see a person in front of me I wouldn’t question if that person was there (an extreme example). In my example above, there is little chance I was imagining the longer USB cable sounding better than the shorter one when I was biased to thinking the opposite. 25 years ago, I also knew that when I heard the meteors sizzling, I knew that I really heard them. Even though when I immediately checked the internet, all researchers had said this was in my head. I’ve learned when to trust my senses. And also, just as importantly, when not to!
There are transient events that can only be capture in time domain such as overshoot or undershoot or ringing or more .,.. It is fine if you only use frequency domain but it won’t be a complete test.
Can you give examples of these transient non periodic events that would occur during playback?
but with non-sinusoidal waveform (which is more akin to music), it’s better to use time domain.
We use non sinusoidal waveforms all the time, though they may be made up of a multitude of sine waves. I already talked about transient testing.
The other thing is that jitter is not one number as is often talked about. Above you see multiple jitter sources at different frequencies and levels. This makes FFT analysis far superior to any time domain jitter measurement that spites out either a number or even a distribution.
That is true. Jitter could be random, periodic, ISI, DCD and I am sure there are more. The tone in your example measure periodic jitter which can be done in time domain as well. For a pure sinewave, you could use frequency domain, but with non-sinusoidal waveform (which is more akin to music), it’s better to use time domain.
There are transient events that can only be capture in time domain such as overshoot or undershoot or ringing or more .,.. It is fine if you only use frequency domain but it won’t be a complete test.
But my own subjective experiences in HiFi have given me enough of a glimpse to firmly believe that there is more that we don’t know.
Arent you just contradicting yourself? You just said we dont know what we dont know. So perhaps we have all possible measurements or perhaps we dont. You cant then claim that your subjective experience gives you a firm belief that theres more that we are not able to measure. Your subjective experience might also just be imagined. Perhaps that $5000 cable is useless after all?
“Why bother measuring things if it doesnt equate with sound quality?”
@kenjit, out of interest I guess? It’s interesting to consider how a component performs, physically, in the real world, independently from human perception which is more important, IMO.
Not sure if I may have overstated my position earlier but I may have. I can admit I believe measured performance has an impact on how I perceive sound quantity. But my main point is I don’t believe it’s a guarantee of how I will perceive sound quality, because I don’t believe we have measurements that comprehensively predict this. Amir takes the position that yes, we DO have all of those measurements. And my question is, how can we know that when we don’t know what we don’t know? My question is ridiculous on its own, as some have pointed out. I wouldn’t go around questioning everything we know on that basis. But my own subjective experiences in HiFi have given me enough of a glimpse to firmly believe that there is more that we don’t know. That we don’t know how to accurately predict how we will each, individually respond to a component with a particular set of measured performance metrics.
To use the car analogy from above, horsepower and torque are valuable measurements but don’t guarantee one will enjoy driving the car.
I’m in favour of JA’s approach to measurements in Stereophile, where subjective listening is the focus. But it’s fantastic that the measurements are there just to see if SOME correlation with the subjective experience can be gleaned. Why? I find it interesting.
People are perfectly free to disagree with me! It does not bother me one bit that ASR exists and I’m happy if they keep banging the objectivity drum. Some say it unfairly harms certain brands but the subjective review sites can balance this. Makes our hobby all the more vibrant, provided we can keep the personal attacks out of the equation.
For the record, I don’t equate the positive measurements you found to an expectation that I will enjoy its sound, in my system, in my room, with my ears, and with my brain…. How great it would be if it were that easy - I truly wish it was!
Why bother measuring things if it doesnt equate with sound quality?
@amir_asr, as an aside I will be buying a Tambaqui DAC and I have to admit it’s a comfort to see that you found it to measure well.
But if I end up not liking it, I will totally blame you for a misfire purchase. Just kidding :)
For the record, I don’t equate the positive measurements you found to an expectation that I will enjoy its sound, in my system, in my room, with my ears, and with my brain…. How great it would be if it were that easy - I truly wish it was!
@amir_asr, I get your point. I’ve done many blind tests in the past but unfortunately I didn’t feel the need to conduct them in these instances when I had the relevant gear. I now wish I had!
I know this is not a “control”, but as I mentioned in the USB cable example, I would have expected, intuitively, for the shorter cable to sound better than the longer cable. That was my bias going in. I was surprised to find the opposite.
I know, not a controlled test! But I think it’s still relevant.
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