@roxy54- "nonsense"? I don’t think so. Look at the treatment of artists like Joni Mitchell. It is not so long ago that there was a division between "artists" - and then, a step below - "female artists". After having written almost exclusively about men for many years, Stereophile finally had an article on women in audio. Male preference and homosociality has a long tradition in the "buddy culture" of audiophilia.
Yet I do not think that most men, for example on Audiogon, want to discriminate against women. They don't want to, but they do it a bit, nevertheless. They often keep on to very traditional "nature decides" explanations that won’t create change. Men are often not aware of their own bias.
I agree with most of what you're saying, and I think a summary would be that women generally like music and don't care about gear, which is why few of them are audiophiles.
"Women are absent in audiophile circles not because they perform worse than the men but because they are downvalued by the men."
Hi Pindac - thanks for a good description. For some of us. But what about a more 'economical' explanation? Women are absent in audiophile circles not because they perform worse than the men but because they are downvalued by the men.
My Wife, Daughter and their female friends all Listen to much more music than I do using electronic equipment.
Females I know as associates through Work, also listen to much more music than I do, all using electronic equipment.
If a Audiophile is some body who enjoys music, especially music reproduced using electronic devices, then the female is surpassing the male in this area.
Where the Female is seen to differ to a Male attitude to being an audiophile, is their selection of electronic equipment is very portable, and they take part in their interest at numerous opportunities.
Do keep in mind terms such as Hi Fidelity and Audiophile are only about 70 years Old and were born from cleverly selected Marketing Spiel, such terms today are corrupted to mean what ever get attached to them.
In todays terminology, even somebody a 160 years past using Edison’s or De Martinvilles devices for reproducing Phono ( Voice, Sound) could have worn the Label Audiophile.
Have a look at live music events and tell me the observations are showing a Male being the larger proportion of attendees, these events are such successes as a result of Female Spending Power.
The Streaming Services really know how to attract the Female Population, their spending power has made streaming platforms revenues that are unimaginable.
Audio Equipment sold to those who lock themselves away in a room types, will not get much attention from a Female, as that as means of living for a hobby will be viewed a miserable experience.
The Female is very astute, better off keeping funds for having a few weekends away at Multi Day Music Festivals, enjoying numerous live performances listened to through Electronic Equipment, ( another abstract of being an audiophile).
The same as for Audiophile and being Female, extends to Photography in very similar measure, the Females are taking more images today than men.
There is a estimation that during the entirety of Film Photography, more images are taken Digital in the past Two Years, than the entirety of Film Photos taken historically. How about adding the Gross of all Digital Images taken and then compare the end figure to the Gross of Film.
Very few Females waste time trying to eke the betterment as a result of Post Editing, no Digital Dark Rooms, unless it an onboard one button filter option, way too many Photo Opportunities to get out and capture, instead of playing on Computer Screen. Men on the other hand, are the fuel to such marketing.
At a Sony Photo Exhibition I attended recently, I would state that 50% or more visitors were female on my day if attendance, and some heard in conversation really nailed the interpretation of certain images.
Those with an interest in music and are not seeing the Females presence, really are locked away in their rooms with the Curtains Drawn. Happy Hi Fidelity and Audiophilia.
How do we "know" that biology decides? Fifty years ago this was believed also in the case of "race" and music. What about social conditioning? We live in a very strongly gender-divided society, not least in the US. Perhaps time to wake up from the illusion that this is simply nature's work?
The oldest question on the book. Here is the answer. Guys do their thing and girls do their thing. That's the truth. Sorry if it offends anyone in 2024.
Women generally hate the look of audio gear in the home and don't see the value in hi end audio. Will that change by any appreciable degree in the near future? I doubt it.
I think that audio, like cars and sports (for example), have been the domain of boys and men primarily for political/economic/social/cultural reasons. Men are physically stronger and maybe by nature more aggressive so we have kept the good stuff for ourselves. This is changing. Over the last 50 years we have seen powerful and very capable women in politics, business, sports and other areas of life. This despite the reluctance of many men to share our privileges and toys. Increasingly, however, companies are marketing to women, for example cars and sports. At some point, some smart audio companies will realize they are ignoring a huge market and try to create female audiophiles. This will benefit all of us.
@maguiar102I don't buy anything without my partner listening with me. She gets sick of the chest-beating men, who seem to have something to prove with their systems. She also has BETTER ears than me, hence why her opinion is important as we like to listen together.
It is nice to see another women in this hobby.
My wife can run rings around people, with logic and that is what is missing in audio, sometimes, is logic. Hence our systems are not expensive, but they sound good to us and we do not feel the need to go on the audio equipment merry go round.
We (my wife and I) are not the type of customers that audio companies want. They want people to hunt the latest and greatest.
My cousin a female introduced me to music .She sold me my set of speakers .A pair of Lafayette speakers . She had a killer Sansui receiver , big band equalizer , Technic turntable and Vinyl for days.
Many women (& non-audiophile men) hate audio sound because all audio system in the world sound un-natural like the left speaker in below video which hurts and causes problems to many ears. The right speaker is modded with my natural sound technology. Audiophiles can adjust their ears for un-natural sound but women's can't do it and the un-natural sounds just hurts women's ears.
I make the natural sound speakers and audio system now and I was an audiophiles before and I can't (& I don't want to) listen other systems now. Adjusting ears for un-natural sound is an un-natural behavior for individuals and it is un-healthy. Alex/WTA
I have been told twice by both of my exwives....Stop spending all your money on stereo stuff...Give it to meeeeee.Now my girlfriend tells me the same thing. They all love spending alot on clothing and jewelry. They love going out to dinner and showing off there stuff....Guys like staying home ,having a cocktail and listening to there stuff....ahhhhh,my stuff....the audio hoarder ,that's me.
"Women would rather waste money on clothes and jewelry." Now there's a stereotype! My wife would rather spend money on a new canoe or mountain bike. (and she has) I think it's more about the technical nature of playback equipment. Men are more into "engineering" type of things where women may be more interested in the artistic or the end result of the equipment. They don't care if it's a Carver or a Conrad Johnson as long as it sounds good.
@maguiar102, "I wonder if men use music to tame their male harshness.."
Well, looking at some of aggressive chest thumping that seems to be an ever present part of high end audio (also cars, gaming PCs etc) it is pretty safe to conclude you are right.
Women like to talk. Men like to listen. Example: In your experience, how long will a woman remain silent/not check her phone when having a listen to your special system? Not long. - No interest. Women will have background music, just on low enough to not interfere with the conversation....the TV is often preferred to cover the silence (!? -easier to turn on). Large, expensive speakers are not part of the decor they envision in their very-rarely-used formal living room. ( "Keeping up appearances", -PBS.) So here's a freebie tip for the marketing department: I once actually suggested this to Gallo/I own Gallo Nucleus Reference -definitley not wife friendly- but with regard to their smaller, affordable, baseball sized sphere speakers on graceful "invisible" spaghetti stands. I witnessed an opportunity to introduce newly weds to great sound at bridal shows! These shows are surprisingly popular, very well attended, but then most women do get married don't they? So, all these excited brides to be are coming to these shows thinking of composing their households and how to spend their money. Now, the booths are probably more affordable than those at audio shows, and there's no competing adjacent sounds. You're sure to be a center of attention & you'd be presenting attractive living rooms with great sound at attractive prices to most of America! Mate with an all-in-one, wi-fi capable, Pandora receiver, and one button gives you "Parisian Brunch" or "Sunday Afternoon Solo Piano" maybe "Cinderella". You're trying to get in on the entry level of household formation....a "Happy Meal" approach." - And here's the kicker: These brides-to-be are all starving themselves to fit into that dream gown. Every one of them...they're starving! These are mostly morning shows, A bowl of potato chips will be sure to keep them around, chatting, in a fun, party atmosphere....with your music. Eh?
Nice! I complement all, almost all, on your ability to laugh at yourself. I am married and this has been the best thread I have seen....lots of smiles and laughs. For instance, "if you were married, you would know how dumb you are. I get reminded all the time" and if you disagree on what an average audiophile looks like, go look in the mirror.
We are dorks and geeks in general and the best part is we can laugh at ourselves. Thanks for the tread.
You can explain this without putting down men and their hobby in the process. I don't think it makes women smarter, more sane, or conversely make men idiots, or show offs or any of the other ridiculous explanations I've read. I think as maguiar102 says, men are more compulsive about certain things, especially electronics, or cars. But believe me, of you have ever seen some of the women I know talk about the things they're interested in-decorating, their personal appearance, fashion, you would think the same thing. It's just what we were socialized or wired to do.
Men are very competitive and a bit more compulsive and obsessive about things... I am a women that loves electronics but I don’t obsess over it and definitely not enough to pay thousands of dollars for cables and better electrical outlets “really guys”. Actually, I am currently looking at a Pass Labs and Verity speakers to buy and taking my sweet time to make the right decision. I started my own thread in Audiogon a few months back under “Best multi channel amp and pro for 2 channel music listening”. I have been researching for months now and taking my time to prevent making an impulsive purchase. I think we are more practical in that sense and we use our logic for survival more than instinct. It also comes down to being a perfectionist which I consider myself to be and if music sounds better in a 10k amp to me is worth the money, but I d____ better hear the difference. I think there are a lot of women out there that also enjoy this hobby but men have come forward and women have remained in the back ground, perhaps not enough exposure or maybe harshly judged for lack of technical knowledge but we do love music at its best...
I grew up with an audiophile dad. I guess it rubbed off on me. We aren’t surrounded by quality sound these days, and I think the less men or women are exposed to what a sound system can offer, the less interest there will be in general. It’s a shame. I have great memories of going with my dad to audio shows and music sales. I remember one show where every system being previewed was playing Isaac Hayes “Shaft”. The jazz of being around such energy and fun was addictive. It’s never left me.
So, if that made me an audiophile, then maybe there just haven’t been enough dads hauling their daughters around, exposing them to real music on nuanced equipment. We need to remind everyone that there are wonderful things to hear if we train our ears and care. And take your daughters out to preview some beautiful sounding equipment. They will remember and maybe get hooked.
photon46: Thanks for enlightening me. Yes, Mahler didn't want his wife getting into composing and Einstein didn't want his wife to be a renowned physicst which put her into clinical depression. And music is regarded as a career socially less respectful field in the orient. If you see the member of orchestra in Asia, more than half are women while you see handful of women in Berlin Philharmonic. I agree with you. But my intention was not in the gender difference in music. I will definitely get into the site you suggest. Thanks.
@johnwern, "all the mid century classical composers were men..." That's simply not true, there are vastly more women than commonly realized who are credited with classical compositions. The fact that few of them entered into the commonly recognized repertoire is related greatly to matters of who had access to music publishing and performance venues: men. You can't separate women's cultural roles and lack of opportunity in times past from their lack of representation in the pantheon of composers. See this list of women classical composers if interested: http://www.kapralova.org/DATABASE.htm
I only met ONE woman audiophile! That was at the NYC Audio Show back in 1978! We shared a bonding moment while gazing at a Linn Sondek with Mayware Formula 4 arm! She was a sales rep for Polk - at the time a distributor for Mayware.
Women enjoy music as much as men do. Audio Clubs do have a negative reaction with women. Why? Audio men are not the best dressers or the best talkers (on non audio topics) and most of all are not a terribly attractive lot overall. Is that unfair ? If so grab a mirror.
Larry, enjoyed your post. After I bought Sony stereo from Montgomery Ward, it took two months for my wife starting to talk to me again. Since she's gone to eternity, I am free whatever I want to buy. But I dearly miss her though.
"If people listened to music there would be a lot less shootings."
The cathartic power of music is grossly underestimated.
"I wonder at times if people are allergic to music."
We live in a busy restless world where music is all too often a accessory (preferably portable) and not something to enjoy in it's own right.
"I have seen entertainment furniture selling for well over $5,000 with a wide screen TV with no surround speakers. They are just listening to their TV speakers............really!"
Even those who aren't seem to prefer the look of soundbars and soundbases to loudspeakers (floor or stand mounted). Perhaps they don't know that the TVs headphone out can be plugged straight into an amp via 3.5/RCA cable without the need for any separate DVD/amp cables etc?
I have thought about this too. This is wives resent what we spend. I think a lot of this relates to showing off your stuff to your buddies and pounding your chest to see what I have. My stereo is better than yours. Then your buddy buys something better and begins to pound his chest. In the meantime the wives hate how their money is being spent. Then they pretend to not like sitting down to hear music the way it should be heard. They sit there grumbling and inside have a difficult time containing themselves for witnessing the experience and release music can offer. If people listened to music there would be a lot less shootings.
I am receiving home listings from a real estate agent who is sending homes for sale in our area to help gauge what our home is worth. So far, I have seen hundreds of listings and what amazes me is I am yet to see a pair of speakers sitting in a family room or living room. No wonder why this hobby is suffering and the dealers are starving. I think audio manufactures are missing the boat by not advertising on TV and sending out direct mail. The public needs to be educated and become of an entertainment platform that can be so dimensional. I wonder at times if people are allergic to music. I have seen entertainment furniture selling for well over $5,000 with a wide screen TV with no surround speakers. They are just listening to their TV speakers............really!
Most men are just more interested in operating, fixing, analyzing, restoring, building, etc. Most women are just more interested in enjoying those efforts. A good woman however will make up for this unbalance in other ways such as child care, running a household effectively, being supportive and not committing crimes. I hope that doesn't sound too sexist.
Did you get a play tool called car when very young? That's why your spouse is mostly sitting next to the steering wheel and not behind it - even it is well know in mining that women are less emotional drivers and therefore hired!
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