Well said mahgister
Who says cables don't make a difference?
Funny, after all these years, people still say things like "you wasted all that money on cables".
There are still those who believe cables don't make a difference.
I once did marketing for a cable line I consider to be about the best-Stealth Audio Cables.
One CES, I walked the rooms with the designer/owner, Serguei Timachev. He carried a pair of his then new Indra interconnects. Going from room to room he asked the room runners to replace their source to preamp IC with the Indra. There was not one that was not completely flabbergasted and said that the Indras blew away what they were using. That was the skyrocketing of Indra and Stealth. The Indra became one of the best reviewed cables ever.
Serguei now makes the Sakra-an IC that blows away the Indra!
I don't understand why some still do not value cables as much as I.
There are still those who believe cables don't make a difference.
I once did marketing for a cable line I consider to be about the best-Stealth Audio Cables.
One CES, I walked the rooms with the designer/owner, Serguei Timachev. He carried a pair of his then new Indra interconnects. Going from room to room he asked the room runners to replace their source to preamp IC with the Indra. There was not one that was not completely flabbergasted and said that the Indras blew away what they were using. That was the skyrocketing of Indra and Stealth. The Indra became one of the best reviewed cables ever.
Serguei now makes the Sakra-an IC that blows away the Indra!
I don't understand why some still do not value cables as much as I.
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I am quite confident to state that i have done far more listening tests in my life so far then you will ever do. It is a good part of how I have spent my career. Hard to design acoustic spaces without listening (especially for critical customers). Hard to design products that incorporate acoustics and electronics without listening, especially when you are trying to trade off many variables that are highly subjective. Of course, I don't just throw on a record or play a file and go "how does it sound", because my customers could have done that. I did professional controlled listening tests both to remove bias, and to make customers clearly aware of the trade-offs, changes, potential for signal processing to modify perceptive space, bandwidth/cost trade-offs, etc. That came rather easily having done actual research in audio, signal processing and acoustics. You will notice I tend not to talk in hand waving but discuss actual engineering concepts. You can claim you are not Andy2, but the similarities are too great, including posting about the same time as well. Similar writing styles, saying similar things. Why do you make so many posts, yet never bring any useful information to the table? You and others who make laughable statements about choosing systems by measurements must be really insecure. Perhaps you know what I know, that people who are heavy into the technology and engineering of audio don't do a little bit of listening testing. They do huge amounts of listening testing. They are obsessed with listening and detecting the slightest hints of anything wrong, or off, and why it is happening. Difference is .... they start by assuming both their equipment and their ears are wrong, then work towards figure out which is which. They don't assume their ears\brain are perfect, knowing far too well they are not. Sometimes I have to work hard to just enjoy music as I become too focused on what is wrong, and not just enjoying what is right. I know all kinds about all kinds of music customers, from concert hall owners, to concert goers, to musicians, to studio managers, to speaker designers, to people who design DAC chips, even streaming service providers, and yes, to end customers. You on the other hand know little about my world, and the people who actually develop and work with this technology and the measurements you like to put down. You may want to consider your ignorance in this area before making ignorant comments. |
"boxer12, I already know you are Andy2, but why this attempt to deflect by making it all about me when you can't participate in the discussion? It's not my fault. Stop blaming me for your inadequacies." atdavid (roberttdid), We both know I'm not Andy2 & I've stated as much. Although I've never met Andy2, I'll say he & I do have some things in common. We have the ability to actually hear music through our systems, make cable changes & identify differences when doing so. You seem to be content just reading the specs of your equipment & building a system in that manner. That is one way of doing it so fair enough. That stated, there is not enough common ground between us to have a reasonable discussion on this topic. Now why do you keep changing your name? |
I’m not following your logic. I’m an atheist but I’ve never looked for any evidence to support it. I’m not sure where I would look or why.The religious see signs of his god anywhere....The atheist has the blinders that make him unable to see more than one idea or object at times...His faith is so powerful that he look at everything seeing sings of inexistence everywhere... My logic is a slave of my heart....And my heart is thirsty for truth...I dont give a dam for religion nor atheism or materialism.... They are the same superstition or faith for me on different guise....They are idols.... « We must pray thinking that God does not exist» Simone Weil |
Djones51, You can’t find evidence to support a negative (I.E. that a diety doesn’t exist) because you can’t prove a negative. Those who believe in a deity can prove that the deity exists by simply producing said deity. However, one cannot prove that the deity does not exist by NOT being able to produce a deity. That’s how faith works. IOW, to the faithful, no evidence is necessary, and to a non-believer, no evidence is possible. |
I don’t have a religion. Religion would imply faith without evidence.Religious people have plenty of evidences in any religions.... Read about that to be enlightened... For me active atheists are like believers, the two look for evidences and discover plenty of them to confort their opposite and faith beliefs... I am more a sceptic who experiment or read and think....I dont like technological or religious dogmas.... I listen to some cable for example and my ears know....No need for a superficial theory....We dont know much us humans.... |
mahgister, I don't have a religion. Religion would imply faith without evidence. My views on cables are anything but faith without evidence, and my views on cables are consistent; past a relatively low dollar value, the gains are essentially 0 if competently designed and don't induce issues with the amplifier. |
Your post at some level was an inane rant after all.I dont think so....But your post is also a free attack....Take a mirror and look at you first....Your religion against cable change is not better than some cable zealot.... I dont like "cables thread arguing" because simple listening decide this matter....And you are right tough about the too much money people invest in cables, i am with you there at least.... :) But in any resolving audio system, many cables dont sound exactly the same and many cables are way better, some worse... The debate is closed for me after that.... :) |
What's funny is making a post expecting everyone to agree with you, then being shocked when they do not. Your post at some level was an inane rant after all. mglik OP112 posts07-06-2020 12:50pmHard to believe the inane rant that this thread has devolved! |
If your interconnects get hot, you have a bigger problem than you thought.
Was I misguided thinking that things may get hot because of movement and friction and not the other way around (like in the post I am quoting)? |
I think Boxer and Andy are the same people. They both get offended when they don't understand the topic and they both make childish attacks when accurate statements are made that "offend them". Lots of posta, little added to the conversations. I must say I love the childish "copy and paste" when you don't understand something. No one will ever see through that childish tactic ... Nudge nudge wink wink |
P.s. Andy electrons always move. Maybe not far but they always move. Interconnects do not really heat up ... So not much friction. Any idea of the current densities?I forgot you "copy and paste" from the best so my hats off to you. P.S. Heat is measured on the Kelvin scale. So even at room temperature, there's heat, but ... ahem ... this is just science ... |
No one is trying to force anyone to do any such thing. Come on. The guy who has 6k in his whole systems isn’t going to buy one cable for 3k, much less way more. That’s like saying Mercedes is trying to forces you to buy a maybach, or a black series amg. Their meat and potatoes are the lower models, and then there’s people who need a Chevy or Toyota price also. Let people make those decisions for themselves. You’re not protecting anyone anymore than if you were trying to tell someone not to buy a S series merc. |
Boxer and Andy, did this atdavid make you guys look a bit foolish too? I will have to read his/her posts. Maybe you two are the same person. Seem to hang around the same posts....hmmm P.s. Andy electrons always move. Maybe not far but they always move. Interconnects do not really heat up ... So not much friction. Any idea of the current densities? |
Speed bump, no one care if someone spends $1k or $10k on a cable. I do care when someone tries to convince someone else to spend $2k or $5k on a cable when that is a waste given the many other larger deficiencies likely in their system. Unless you have some pretty poor cables the cables are not the system bottleneck. $100 speaker cables that have no significant deficiencies or poor amp interactions on a $25k well designed speaker is always going to sound better than a $10k cable on a similarly designed $15k speaker. Watch some videos posted by cable vendors. It's laughable the level of equipment many of them have. Don't take my word for it. |
Robert, I hadn’t checked back for a while as noticed you gave a response to my first post on this thread. You know they barely have a meter how? You don’t know, and I’ve seen videos of some of their facilities, happened to see a lot of meters. As you’re well aware, I’m sure, they mostly claim they don’t say what they do, because they don’t want competition copying them. I have no idea how realistic that is, but I bet you don’t either, because you’re not in their industry to be in the know. Could it be an excuse they came up with so they wouldn’t have to say? Who knows. Despite what some have posted on the subject, turns out many of these guys are indeed electrical engineers, some of who got into the industry, or created their company after working for some time in other parts of the audio field. Don’t know a percentage, but have also seen interviews where this was brought up, unless they’re all lying about their past work history. How does each new generation of any audio product end up being “ improved”. Again, through interviews in magazines, or on video, seems most products go through some sort of audio tuning, where someone listens. And tweaks, unlit they’ve achieved what they were looking for. Before that some engineering went into what changes they were looking to make, and why, and what they were hoping to improve upon. I do find that many of them will talk about what improvements they were expecting to achieve, just are not as open with the techniques and materials in specifics they used to get there. Again, they claim it’s so that the competition won’t know, so hw come no one gives kfc grief for their secret recipe? Are the many millions of people who buy their daily being duped because it’s not posted? It must be another mass hallucination, lol. All fried chicken is really the same I suppose. All I know is that I don’t care for some, and I like others. And how would I be any better informed if I knew the secret recipe, or mcds secret sauce. Would that allow be to better tell my taste buds which one is better? Hearing is a sense just like taste, and just as subjective, which is why we can all,listen to the same mucus, but have different ideas about wether we like it or not. |
Would it matter? Even if they did the naysayers will explain it away as they’re 10 percent nickel to iron, vs 5 percent. Or they’re gapped incorrectly, anything to keep it going. Why do they work so hard to try to convince anyone who will listen. I hear what I hear, and don’t care to convince anyone that they should also, whether i did or did not hear anything. Why should I care if someone can hear a difference, or not? If someone wants to spend because they feel it does make a difference for them, I have no objection to that. If you don’t hear anything, then there’s no need to spend. Everyone can be happy, so why is it that the some of the ones who can’t hear feel the need to rain on someone else’s parade. |
Is there any data that supports the gain or loss of quality?Another one who think that data completely replace reality.....Read the article i just post there is some data that go in the way of the break-in hypothesis....But there is no ABSOLUTE data that will replace reality and the experience of many people for the time being.... Ok i quit for the night... :) All of this is subjective right?No not all break-in are subjective experience only, amplifier or dac break-in exist base on the working cycles of some of their electronic components... Read the article.... Good night.... |
Chord company, Moon audio, Morrow cables, etc they all experience break-in for diverse electronic components and cables... I experience it myself... We are all deluded....Say those who dont experience it, dont want to experience it ,even if this could be possible, so strong is their faith in their "understanding" of electronics.... Fact cannot pierce blinders.... Debunker are tedious....No explanation can contredict a fact, that is at the basis of many working audio company.... Marketting tactic some say.... But there exist not only the testimonies of many people, customers or designers, but many reasons why break-in can be real ... https://hometheaterhifi.com/editorial/hi-fi-audio-component-break-in-burn-in-fact-or-fiction/ This article explain some and the writer seems very competent scientist to me.... For sure this prove nothing, but i am a bit tired by the stupidity of cables threads, cables break-in threads and vinyl/digital threads, etc... A bit of common sense suffice to reach a conclusion....It is useless to create debates about these matters.... Sorry for my rant.... |