Who says cables don't make a difference?

Is there a difference, sure there is. But as with most equipment, the amount of improve is incremental as price goes up. I do believe that the cable industry ( and their associated gear) is the highest profit item in audio land are they too much, yes they are. But if you have the money, like what you hear, and can afford it, why should anyone else care two squats worth. It’s like you’re a bad personality, and an idiot because you can afford it. They talk science, and prove, yet when something is proven, they move onto another point, not willing to concede the point on the proven one. And who are they to tell you that what you hear is a hallucination. Why are they so resistant to your personal happiness? It almost seems as if they are trying to justify not spending on yet another piece of equipment. I’ve seven seen some who demean cables between equipment, yet extoll the use of high end end bran wiring used inside a piece of equipment. Hypocrisy at its best. I guess since we cannot prove love through science, it dosnt not exist. How do you prove with science, how a piece of music moves someone’s emotions. It’s simple. Observation. Unless the human race Islas been prone to lying about the subjects for thousand of years, then I’d be willing to believe when someone hears a difference in cables. 

Pfh, and yet there’s zero proof from the opposite camp. Measurements that detect other things get posted as proof. Those measurements are good for what they do actually show, but as with any sort of statistic, it gets twisted and explained as something else entirely different. It’s ok to say you do or don’t hear any difference if you do or don’t, but to so desperately try to convince the other side that they’re incorrect and with no proof yourself, just defies logic. I’m sure some people don’t hear any differences, I’m also just as that some will deny they do no matter what, because they’re entrenched in their position. I used to be one who didn’t notice a difference, but also never took the time to really do a comprehensive test, and all during that time I never once tried to convince anyone that they were hearing things and it was all hogwash. I never once believed that so many people were totally fooled in that way, I just assumed that my hearing just wasn’t that trained, and the differences were rather subtle. Then one day I decided to put the discussion, for me, to bed once and for all, and went in assuming I would hear nothing and never have to think about the subject again. Turns out I was wrong, not going to say it was the difference between listening to an eight track in my car in the 70s vs a top tier audio system today, but it was most definitely at the point where I’ve spent thousands to upgrade a component for that level of difference. Also, not all expensive cables sound great with all setups. And I’m quite sure cables have outrageous profit levels and not truly justified by their cost, at the higher levels. Having said that you haBe to pay to play at those levels. If you deem they make a difference to you. No one is trying to force anyone to spend as so many claim. Sure cable manufactures make claims, they’re selling a product, every manufacturer does that, I don’t hear complaints about audio equipments advertising. Why do the naysayers feel the need to try to demean those who are willing to spend on cables. Most who don’t spend, don’t waste their time with that, I’m sure it’s just a small, but vocal group that do. It is mildly amusing I suppose to see the same ones keep doing it over and over. So why do you care so much if other spend, when you chose not to. It’s their money, their choice. It’s not a matter of just saying you don’t see the value, so you don’t, it’s more that they’re out to prove that those who hear, are hallucinating. That points to a deeper issue within themselves.

Pfh, when you have a large amount of data avaible on a subject, that is the statistics and science to help to,prove it. Phycology is similar, we can’t measure human thoughts and feelings, but we can gather data and with enough data we can indeed prove something. We don’t yet have the ability to know whether doses of vaccines will have negative effects, without trials. Someday we might have the ability to crunch the proper data with computers and get those answers without all the effort to gather the results in other ways. There is a not insignificant number of people who can hear differences, enough that there is a thriving industry that caters to them. Where’s the measurements that show I will like a particular amp vs another, or that there is even a difference between amps, or any audio equipment, that measures very similar. No such thing exists, yet we all readily acknowledge that we can hear differences. Products that on paper may look similar, can sound very different. And there is no way to measure what I will find sounds good, vs what you will. 

No one is trying to force anyone to do any such thing. Come on. The guy who has 6k in his whole systems isn’t going to buy one cable for 3k, much less way more. That’s like saying Mercedes is trying to forces you to buy a maybach, or a black series amg. Their meat and potatoes are the lower models, and then there’s people who need a Chevy or Toyota price also. Let people make those decisions for themselves. You’re not protecting anyone anymore than if you were trying to tell someone not to buy a S series merc. 

Robert, I hadn’t checked back for a while as noticed you gave a response to my first post on this thread. You know they barely have a meter how? You don’t know, and I’ve seen videos of some of their facilities, happened to see a lot of meters. As you’re well aware, I’m sure, they mostly claim they don’t say what they do, because they don’t want competition copying them. I have no idea how realistic that is, but I bet you don’t either, because you’re not in their industry to be in the know. Could it be an excuse they came up with so they wouldn’t have to say? Who knows. Despite what some have posted on the subject, turns out many of these guys are indeed electrical engineers, some of who got into the industry, or created their company after working for some time in other parts of the audio field. Don’t know a percentage, but have also seen interviews where this was brought up, unless they’re all lying about their past work history. How does each new generation of any audio product end up being “ improved”. Again, through interviews in magazines, or on video, seems most products go through some sort of audio tuning, where someone listens. And tweaks, unlit they’ve achieved what they were looking for. Before that some engineering went into what changes they were looking to make, and why, and what they were hoping to improve upon. I do find that many of them will talk about what improvements they were expecting to achieve, just are not as open with the techniques and materials in specifics they used to get there. Again, they claim it’s so that the competition won’t know, so hw come no one gives kfc grief for their secret recipe? Are the many millions of people who buy their daily being duped because it’s not posted? It must be another mass hallucination, lol. All fried chicken is really the same I suppose. All I know is that I don’t care for some, and I like others. And how would I be any better informed if I knew the secret recipe, or mcds secret sauce. Would that allow be to better tell my taste buds which one is better? Hearing is a sense just like taste, and just as subjective, which is why we can all,listen to the same mucus, but have different ideas about wether we like it or not. 

Would it matter? Even if they did the naysayers will explain it away as they’re 10 percent nickel to iron, vs 5 percent. Or they’re gapped incorrectly, anything to keep it going. Why do they work so hard to try to convince anyone who will listen. I hear what I hear, and don’t care to convince anyone that they should also, whether i did or did not hear anything. Why should I care if someone can hear a difference, or not? If someone wants to spend because they feel it does make a difference for them, I have no objection to that. If you don’t hear anything, then there’s no need to spend. Everyone can be happy, so why is it that the some of the ones who can’t hear feel the need to rain on someone else’s parade. 

Must be flat earthers, lol

So true George. 

I am me, unless I’m not, and I’m someone else? Lol. Seems a lot of people are confused about their own identities, so I can understand their confusion about something that requires logic and common sense to follow.

Pfh again, you start with the assumption that not a single person has ever done a true blind test, and in fact many of you who deny there are audible differences claim any test I’ve ever seen mentioned, in invalid for one reason or another. Most of those who are in denial of this obviously would not accept any test that did not end with their expected results. My testing was a true blind test. I went in expecting a retain result, though unlike those who continually try to deny the differences, I did not go in with a closed mind on the subject. My goal was to prove to myself that there was, or wasn’t, so I could be done once and for all on the subject. I had no idea what cables where being used in each case, and we cycled through many. I had no idea what brands, or the costs of those products. I kept a list of my perceptions of each as a number one through x. I had someone in another thread try to tell me that the mind can’t remember what it heard for the time between changing cables. The cables were also out of sight on purpose. The results spoke for themselves. I can’t say that the nest person would hear them the same as me, though I would bet they for sure would hear a difference, and if not, then I don’t know how they could hear any differences in the equipment, or quality of the music source. Though to that point I have seen people who heard something much differently than I did, for good or bad, though at least they did hear a difference, so for sure personal preferences color all perceptions, no right or wrong in that. Yes, some cables I really could tell no difference from stock cables. Those were mostly value priced cables after the tests were done. The most expensive cables weren’t always the best sounding, and I suspect that boils down to synergy in components, and my own personal preferences. I listened to the same cables in two different sets of equipment. As expected some cables performed differently in each system after reviewing the results. I paid for the rental time at the dealer, I insisted on that as I felt it only fair since I was making sole use of their space, and I had no intention on making a purchase. They felt I had bought enough equipment in the past, but I believe in paying for any services I receive. I also hired people outside of the industry to label and make the cable changes, not the dealers employees. This was before I spent much time on near reading these types of threads, but was just a few months ago. I might have actually made a video production of this had I realized all the controversy,  it I’m sure the naysayers would have picked it apart and denied its authenticity or validity anyways. Peoples who’s minds are already made up won’t be swayed by any facts or proof, so would have been additional time and expense to do nothing but reaffirm what many already do know and hear for themselves, while doing nothing to quell the controversy in the minds of those whose bias is too deep to be moved on the subject. Even as someone who didn’t feel he heard differences in the past, I still believed others did, as stated in my previous post. I never felt once that anyone was imagining what they heard. 

Lol, and I sense the first to try to pick apart the testing method, as I mentioned. Jd, the test was valid by any designation. No I have no desires to go into any more detail on it, i was doing it to prove anything to anyone other than myself. I do know a bit about conducting tests that would eliminate variables other than ending up with a valid conclusion either way, that the test was designed to determine. We are not talking subtle differences here, any more than if I subbed out a sweet sounding tube  for an analytical Solid state set up. If you could detect that difference in a blind test, you could also detect the best of the cables compared to the worst. If you could not tell the difference in the amp/ preamp, then I might suggest that spending much on audio equipment would not improve your experience.

Robert is no longer with us, unless he’s been able to create another new account.

I play the guitar myself, and cables would not have the same relevance there that they do in home audio. With home audio, we are placing cables after the source and changing that sound. With a guitar, most of  the processing of the sound happens after the cable, in the amp, which then modifies the signal it receives from the pickups, and guitar amps have a lot of tone control over the sound, much more so than any cable does. So you really can not compare the two in the same discussion. When I play, I dial in the sound I want with the controls on the amp, a cable placed before the amp does its thing would not have great affect, and what it does have would be just one setting, and easily modified to a much greater extent by my manipulation of the different tone controls. Cables, and individual pieces of equipment are our tone controls in home audio. I am still unclear why it’s such a bad thing to have those in our hobby, though I believe feel that it impacts the sound in a negative with with active controls?

The subject is broad. Most equipment has its own sound. It imparts that sound into what you hear, but you only have have sound for each piece for the most part. Some equipment does have the ability to select some different sounds. People buy audio equipment all the time because of the sound it gives them in their system. There’s no doubt about that. With a guitar amp, while each can ha e a totally different sound, they offer way more range of sounds and tones that they can create. Of course that’s because their purpose is different, they’re intended to create using, not reproduce it. I know many are against tone controls, etc on audio equipment, but personally I don’t see why, as long as that doesn’t take away anything. 

I remember years ago( many years ago) some magazine doing a test with cables and one being an extension cord picked up at a local hardware store. I believe in that case the extension cord did not win, but didn’t do badly either. Too long ago to remember if that was a measurement based test, or one based on listening. Probably where I first felt that cables didn’t make much difference. I owned expensive equipment years ago, thought  I had splurged when I bought a 100 dollar power cable. Didnt hear a difference and called it a day and hadn’t thought much about the subject again until recently, now that I’ve gotten back into the hobby after a decade of being out of it. 

Barney, I think you’ve got it backwards, people buy expensive stuff,  because they hear a difference. Not buy it then feel like they have to say it’s good, though even then, I wouldn’t do that, as I do buy some thing without the ability to hear it first. Why is it that people believe that someone who purchases an expensive cable will lie about it, and yet not say the same thing about say an amp, or certainly not to the same level as with cables. It seems to me that some are trying too hard to convince themselves of something, so that their own ideas aren’t shattered. Hey, if you honestly tell me that you can’t hear a difference, where I honestly can, I’m not going to argue that at all. And I certainly would. It recommend that you spend money in that case as there is no value for you. Just as I might like electrostatic speakers and you might hate them. Then, why would I suggest that you buy them? Or just the opposite, why should I not buy something, because you don’t like them, or can’t hear a difference. Why can’t we each hear what we hear, and like what we like. No need to revert to arguments about how you feel some manufacturers market their products that you don’t like, we are discussing what I hear and like and what you like and hear, or don’t hear as the case may be. Why do so many feel the need to tell people who spend on cables that they’re basically fools and idiots, and have duped themselves into believing something that is not true. I don’t see those people trying so hard to convince the ones who can’t hear any differences that their hearing is somehow inadequate. 

It’s obvious where your bias lies, and yes you have made that clear. I haven’t seen anyone saying hard of hearing other than as a funny response as I posted above to comments about them hallucinating what they hear. As a whole, those who don’t hear differences do indeed spend much more time and effort trying to convince everyone that they’re imagining things, where the opposite is generally not the case. Som you can actually teach someone that they can’t hear what they do hear? That would be an interesting proposition. Come to houston and do the same simple test I did, and if you are able to approach it with a fair and open mind, would like to see if you would still tell me that you don’t hear a difference. I have had actual nasa rocket scientists try to explain the laws of Physics, it’s a wonder we ever got to space as hard headed as some of them can be, lol,  

It’s immoral to buy cables now huh? Lol. Better start picketing the Ferrari’s, Lamborghini, Aston Martin, etc dealer’s, and we need to start doing something about those immoral multi million dollar homes too. Boats, another one we need to clean up. Robert, are you’re saying you’re one of the hearing impaired ones? I guess I can make that assumption about people who don’t have the ability to hear properly to hear significant difference in audible sound, as it would be the same as your assumptions about those who are not impaired. I see most stating as fact that they hear what they hear, and they are not trying to tell you that you don’t hear what you don’t hear as aopposed to those who can’t hear, continually trying to tell them that they’re hallucinating. That’s the difference. Based on your comment maybe we should say that you could use some training in critical listening, so you are able to identify obvious differences in audible sounds. Or maybe we can just say that we all have differences in perceptions of what we hear and everyone has their own idea of what works for them. If you ever come to houston, maybe we can both listen to the same test and see what we see. I went into this expecting not to hear any difference so I could put that behind me once and for all. But what I did not do is go in with a bias that I wasn’t going to hear anything no matter what happened. I was surprised at the result, but as always, my ears are the finale judge in any decision about equipment. No matter how impressive something looks on paper, no matter the positive reviews, or negative reviews. A lot of positive reviews of course will get a product more noticed for consideration. 

Wow, that last post was a response to a different thread I was on, yet it posted on this one

True joe, cost alone won’t tell you if it will sound better in your system, and I’ve heard expensive cables that ddI not sound good in one system, but have heard them sound good in another. It’s trial and error for the most part, and part of the journey we all make with this hobby. 

Thyname, I know I’m not changing anyone’s mind, when they’ve already made up their mind, that last post he said it all. He wants to see a change in the cable that he can measure, or apparently he won’t believe his own ears without that.  It’s like they believe if they hear it, it’s a magic act, and there’s an explanation why it’s not real. There are many things we can’t measure out there, or modify our definition of because we found out our past ways to measure sow thing wasn’t correct in some way. It’s a good thing that most scientists or creators of new products and ideas don’t get stuck in that loop, or we’d never advance beyond where we are now. Man can’t fly, until he could. Still people who think the moonwalk was faked. If that’s what they want to believe, so be it. I can certainly see the idea that for what cables can cost, it’s insane to many. And I’m sure the level of profit is extremely high the more expensive they get. Only you can determine if what you hear is worth what the cost is, but it for sure is no one else’s business if you decide it is. As it’s no one else’s business to tell you you’re wrong for not spending on cables. Your budget, and more so the value they represent to you can only be answered by you. Why are these concepts so hard to understand. 

Robert, what compelling evidence? We are talking about what we hear or do t hear, most of us are not engineers. I’m not asking for proof that someone does t hear something, nor do I believe proof needs to be shown that they do. Why can’t we take each other at their word about what we hear, either way. Why does offense have to be given or taken over the subject. Those who can hear, would like to have a discussion about that, why can’t they without the negativity. If someone I’d asking questions about their McIntosh amp and someone else shows up and starts trashing McIntosh as trash and inferior, is that right? The forum is here to try to learn something, hopefully. Open discussion. Tolerance of other people’s points of view.  Neither side of the discussion should be pointing fingers, calling names or demeaning the other. No one should be made to fell like a fool for what they hear, all these things destroy open conversations and the ability to learn anything. 

I have compelling evidence that I am me, at least I think I am. And that’s good enough for me

Haha Robert, sounds like I’m doing pretty well at it then, you seem to be “ stiffled” by my posts. Actually I think it’s pretty sad that anyone feels the need to proclaim and stiffle any thoughts that don’t agree. But your response I guess is what one should expect when they try to approach a subject with reason and logic when others intentions are anything but that. But hey, carry on with your “ stifling” and enjoy if that’s what you do for entertainment. 

Dan, for those that don’t hear a difference, or not enough to justify it, I agree, there is no sense in spending for them. But there are those who do, and the difference they hear is not insignificant. Assuming their budget allows it, then I agree it makes sense for them. Don’t see a reason why anyone should have a problem with either side of that. I spend on cables because I most definitely hear a worthwhile difference. But I understand why it makes no sense to also. Someone like warren buffet would never spend on a super car, just makes no sense to him, brings nothing to him that he feels gives value, even though he can afford anything he wants. I have no issue with that, and if I had his money, I’d probably have a jay Leno kind of garage, because. I feel it would bring some value to me. No reason why we can’t both be happy about our choices. 

Robert, if a tree falls in the forest, which came first, the chicken or the egg. As has been shown over and over, measurements are not always an indicator of good sound. Not that I don’t wish I wore the same blinders that you do, as having peripheral vision has cost me a lot of money. 

Interesting that you felt I was speaking about you Robert. I have the strength of conviction to believe in myself and what I can perceive, rather than bowing down to pseudo experts who yes arrogantly claim to know more than the rest of us and if our views don’t mesh with theirs, then it is us who are the ignorant. It’s ok if you don’t have the hearing skills or technical knowledge to understand your own bias. The world is full if people who truly believe they are the center of the world rather than being open to other ideas, points of views, and enjoy discovering these in other people rather than try to make them conform to theirs

I am so happy that I believe what I see and hear, rather than listen to others who try to say I should deny those things. That I must live by their rules because they define the rules for others, and doing otherwise is denying the truth, according to them. They must define what truth is for us, some of them seem very desperate to make us see thus truth, as if their truth will unravel if not. We should be the sheeple to their temple of truth. I’m happy with just being me, not sure why they’re so insistent we must be them

Correct boxer, the whole idea of this hobby is the listening. It’s not the read whichever measurements that some one seems necessary, as even the real experts will say that listening is still needed. In the end I want to hear something I enjoy, that’s what I, and others spend their money for. Not because Robert, David, or whatever his name is, decides what I should be listening to. Anyone trying that hard to convince people of something is highly suspect by nature of their desperation to convince. Robert sometimes when it seems the world is against you, maybe it really is you. If the world is trying to tell you the earth is not flat, maybe it’s for a reason. But really I don’t think any of us care either way what you believe. The problem is that you’re trying way too hard to make us believe what you want us to believe. Why can’t you just let us have our ideas, as I don’t disagree that you don’t hear, wether it’s because you don’t have the skill, you won’t hear because you are biased, or simply truly just don’t hear the differences. I suspect one of the first two because I believe most that simply don’t hear are fine with it for those of us who do, as we are with them not hearing a difference. I won’t be trying to get them to spend money on cables that would bring no value to them, and I’ll continue to discuss different cables with those who do see the value in them, and everyone can be happy. 

Cleeds, it wouldn’t matter what you say, he’s done it better. He’s obviously the only true expert. He’s another kenjit. In his world at least, his word is final. For the rest of us though, we could actually have a meaningful convo if he would stay away from a subject he’s made very clear about his bais towards and let stop trying to destroy ever thread on the subject as he has blatantly tried to do. No wonder an older account t he had was banned. Brings nothing of value to the discussion, only goal is to tear down others thoughts. 

cleeds, Robert doesn’t even realize when he’s been out scienced on his blind testing theories, he never will. He could and would never settle for a true blind test don’t by independent researchers who could care less about what the results show. No matter how it was done, even if he initially agreed the process was sound, he would find the faults in the methods if the results didn’t turn out as he wished. He’s mad that point abundantly clear. Robert, scientific testing isn’t done to prove a personal theory, it’s done to prove the facts, wherever that leads. I’m sure if such a test were ever conducted, you would be trying to get your hands into it, telling them the  “ proper” way to conduct it ( to hopefully get the results you want) me, I’d let real experts decide the most unbiased way to perform said tests. Because in the end, it wouldn’t bother me in the least whatever the result might be. I know what I did was not quite that level, but more then close enough for skeptic in me to be convinced.as I’ve said before, that’s not the idea I went in with, or the result that I expected. I am absolutely convinced that the testing method was such that hat I heard was not altered in any way, and if I did have a bias before the testing, it was towards expecting not being able to hear any differences. The difference is, I’m open to being shown something new. I’m not arrogant enough to to believe that I know everything, or that I’ve heard everything, or that I can pre determine a product completely by measurements. 

Lol Robert, as I have said, my major is in physics. I am not anti science, I am anti fake science

Many people have done something g similar David, I know the naysayers, and Robert in particular will try to tell you why your test was invalid and you are really just assuming attributes being associated with particular cables because of what you’ve read about them. trust your ears, and as you saw, different people prefer different sounds, so one is t always better than another, but more like one may be better to you, and in the end, that’s all that matters. We are the ones spending our money for our personal enjoyment. Not sure why some feel the need to try to convince us it’s bogus. You’re not spending their money, nor asking them to either. 

Robert if the description of your swampland is as accurate as your ideas on audio theory, I’m not intrested. I prefer a certain type of swamp land, and I have little faith in your ability or skil to properly identify or describe the type of swampland you have for sale. Now if I can have my own third party certified expert examine your swamp land and give a proper description, then it’s possible I might be interested. But it seems you’re never open to independent third party, actual experts in their fields, when it involves the possibility of the results conflicting with your own opinions. 

Thyname, I just researched some things you mentioned and the timing of Roberts supposed earlier alter ego, and the posts of his current one, and I have some to the same conclusions. The Robert account was started beginning of June. Since then you are correct, it’s been non stop attacking and belittling people. Claims to be the foremost audio/engineer expert on the forum apparently, as he doesn’t seem to have found anyone to be his equal, and most everyone have been shown as being deficient in their thinking and or hearing. Also a lot seem to be just generally poor human beings to boot along the way. The world must be a lonely place when you’re the only one who can see the real truth. Maybe it’s a good thing the rest of us are so much less enlightened . At least we have company

No, I’ll,let my and his statements all speak for themselves. 

Andy, let’s not demean used car salespeople, they do have a purpose. People do need used cars, so they have a real and useful function. Unlike certain trolls whose only purpose brings
 no value whatsoever to anyone. The fake science (maybe he has a primer he uses as his wealth of information) does more harm than good because it’s being misapplied, misquoted, and misunderstood.
he misses the Forest for the tress. It’s like seeing the Mona Lisa, and you’re trying to take in its beauty, and he’s trying to explain why the wrong painting technique was used in the painting. Coming from some one who can’t even appreciate the beauty of the art itself. The techniques are end games, they’re used to achieve a purpose. That purpose is to create something beautiful. If the technique works to help achieve that goal, that’s all that matters. 

His own words in one of these threads is that the goal is to stiffle discussion. Not to have meaningful discussion, not to use actual facts, not to be truthful or honest. 

Robert is not intrested Robert is not intrested in true scientific unbiased testing. If he can’t control the process to try to achieve the results he expects, it has no value for him. Also I don’t believe he has either the experience or ability to actually conduct such a test to begin with. Way too many discrepancies in his own statements on the subject. 

Well, not surprising if he had an earlier account that was banned, I saw a lot of attacks and name calling. 

Id have to agree Kenny. Shamus, try a SR SX power cable, the flavors that will tingle your tongue will amaze, lol. For the low epic of only 10k, you can own a little piece of heaven 

Here’s a perfect example of someone who is an expert in his field, knows and understands measurements, but in the end his ears told him the story, Paul McGowan

Synergy between components is not just a series of compromises made to elicit great results. Sometimes the mixing and matching of equipment has a magic to it that simply cannot be reproduced any other way.

Take for example Octave Record’s Studer 32 track analog mixing board. When we first bought this Neil Young-owned board, Gus and I were determined to rebuild it. The circuitry is all based on the venerable NE 5532 op-amps that I have written about before. This warhorse amplifier circuit has been around as long as I can remember. We first used it in the early 1980s when we launched our first CD player. In the meantime, many fine modern op-amps have been designed and released, some revered by audio aficionados as being light years better than the old 5532. Surely, it was time to refresh this beauty of a mixing board.

Since the Studer’s op-amps are socketed, it was an easy task to swap out the 5532s for newer op-amps with far better specs. Then the listening tests began. We had about five choices of op-amps installed in different channels and Gus played for me a series of great recordings we were both familiar with through each. The test was totally blind as I had no idea of what versions of amplification we were listening to, but one by one we went through all the choices.

In the end, the 5532 won, hands down. Clearly, it was the synergy between all the components in the chain the engineers at Studer had achieved that made the magic. If one were to have looked at specs alone, this amp would have been last on the list.

It can be difficult at times to accept what we hear, but it’s always best to trust our ears.

This is true thyname, it does seem strange. To me it seems that they’re not so much trying to convince us, but trying to convince themselves. It’s like they guy driving the Chevy posting in every rolls forum that there is no difference between a rolls and a Chevy, or pick any brand of car. There’s die hard Ford fans who would tell him there’s no comparison to the fords. There’s probably merit in them all, at their respective price points, and some people will never like certain ones. If you can’t afford a rolls, it’s a moot point, but I certainly do t begrudge those who can and do. I’m happy they’re happy. 

Nonsense because they use their ears instead of measurements that aren’t able to properly tell the differences? Science is great, when properly understood. If someone  believes we already know everything there is to know, better to keep them to the task of writing the history, so those who believe we still have much to discover can do the discovering. You won’t ever learn anything new with the first type.