Who says cables don't make a difference?


Funny, after all these years, people still say things like "you wasted all that money on cables". 
There are still those who believe cables don't make a difference.
I once did marketing for a cable line I consider to be about the best-Stealth Audio Cables. 
One CES, I walked the rooms with the designer/owner, Serguei Timachev. He carried a pair of his then new Indra interconnects. Going from room to room he asked the room runners to replace their source to preamp IC with the Indra. There was not one that was not completely flabbergasted and said that the Indras blew away what they were using. That was the skyrocketing of Indra and Stealth. The Indra became one of the best reviewed cables ever.
Serguei now makes the Sakra-an IC that blows away the Indra!
I don't understand why some still do not value cables as much as I.
mglik

Showing 40 responses by glupson

jmeyers,

"I had been using 35 feet long Blue Jeans/Belden interconnects between my preamp and the power amp..."


35 feet? That is very long for an interconnect. How come you had to leave components that far?
thyname,

I am much better than you would think.

What is a Bingo hour?
thyname,

"Back then when he was posting under @atdavid fake account."

Why exactly are you calling someone’s account fake? Did she/he impersonate you?

"...he is probably busy fighting his holy war somewhere else, in other Audio forums and Facebook. I am 100% sure."

"Which again, I will easily spot..."

Do you also walk on water?

Aside from that, is he probably (<100%) fighting or he is certainly (100%) fighting?
"...those who believe we still have much to discover can do the discovering."


Well, some are sure they have discovered a money-making scam.
Every now and then, I imagine that engineers at Texas Instruments or other serious businesses shrug their shoulders reading expert opinions on Audiogon and similar fora.
"...in the old days 80s'/90's"
You may not want to call 80s/90s "the old days" in front of the crowd here. For most, it was "just the other day". "The old days" were 60s, maybe 70s.

"Electrons, copper molecules ... to name a few. And they move because of heat and friction … "

If your interconnects get hot, you have a bigger problem than you thought.

"And they move because of heat and friction …"

Was I misguided thinking that things may get hot because of movement and friction and not the other way around (like in the post I am quoting)?






What is it today? Statements in all the threads became bizarre. I though full moon was last night.
mitch2,

"I am a little disappointed nobody ever has answered my question about the Finns. "
So it was not Nokia? With their "Connecting people" slogan?
It is possible to make an error, especially when multiple threads follow very similar ideas.

I would say that roberttdid's mistake was a silly mistake, but still just a mistake. It happens.
"Until one day I come home after having been to Definitive, put on a CD, and its Michael Ruff Poor Boy which is a superb Sheffield tube recording and it suddenly hits me THIS IS IT! "

Yes, good recordings may sound better than bad ones. Who would have known?





mahgister,


"Which customer will not ask for his money back for a cable he dont like, after 200 hours of listening , if he was paid many hundred dollars, even thousand dollars ?"

Not exactly cables (I do not put much value on them), but I have not returned some things I did not like, regardless of cost. It would not have been worth my time, effort, energy, whatever, at that time.



mahgister,

I am not sure why he does it, but delaying the possibility of return does make it less convenient and less likely to happen.


Any manufacturer has to find something to make her/his products stand out from the crowd. Cable burn-in may be one of those things. It may be a trouble to do it, but it is a part of the business.


It takes a lots of people at Coca-Cola to arrange for billboards, TV ads, etc. to make you feel connected to those smiling people drinking their Coca-Cola. It is a trouble, but they have been doing it for decades with one goal. To sell Coca-Cola.


It does help if manufacturer believes in what she/he sells so she/he may be more honestly enthusiastic about the product. If it were not about burn-in, what else would we be talking when mentioning Morrow cables? You see, even in these few posts, the hype and talk is about the burn-in. The story. The selling point.

mahgister,


I do not know anything about value of those cables, but do propose that one of the reasons for that approach is simply business.

Mr. Morrow is in the business of earning money from cable sales. If not, he would have been giving them for free. In this very competitive cable market, just like any other manufacturer, he needs to distance his products from others'. Emphasis on cable burn-in may be that approach.


Not having money-back return policy would make many potential customers skip his offerings so it would not be a good idea. Understandingly, he would be better off with less returns. Offering return policy, but making sure that it is discouraged under the explanation "you need time to settle" or whatever else, could yield multiple benefits.

"Story" (burn-in) with the cable, return policy (not to alienate potential customers), and a few hurdles to skip over while trying to exercise one's right to return, and you may get good sales with less returns. It is not an unusual business/marketing approach even without starting to talk about any real/perceived functionality. In fact, why would he do it any other way?

"Now suppose you are Mr. Morrow himself , why in the hell ! would you give to yourself this trouble and to yours customers too, advising them to burn the cables they sold to you or burning them for them... Why ?"
There may be a few reasons and one may be marketing. You have 60 days to return cables, but you are not allowed to return them before day #30. It makes it less likely that you will return it at all even for sheer inconvenience, missing deadlines, forgetfulness, and whatever else. Once you decide to skip though those hoops and return some of the cables there is a 10% restocking fee. That may set you back $700 for speaker cables (up to 3 meter length).

geoffkait,

"Too bad you went to public school. Otherwise you could ask for your money back."
Still using my wisecracks? Good boy.

"All the lonely trolls, where do they all come from? 😃"
They jump out of the pebble bag.
"...anti cable propaganda is associated with a group of people...'
Not just any group. It is a Special Interest Group.

https://www.bluetooth.com/about-us/vision/


"Actually, a few specimens  here may support that theory 😂"
I would argue that monkeys have not de-evolved to humans yet. They still mind their own business.
I pick the sources who do not have the agenda, except to make a vaccine.
"Learn the truth regarding the vaccine."
On it. Learning facts. They may differ from "truth", though.
"They won’t find a vaccine any time soon."
Vaccines are usually not found. They arrive to the market via different method.
"...Harman Kardon or whatever their name is and their stuff is probably junk, anyway."
Many satisfied customers would recommend you quit guessing in bad faith.
isochronism,

Yes, he accused me of stealing material that he stole from me.

On the other hand, I do find inspiration in some of the posts I read. I could have never worded it better than you. You made only two small mistakes.
When someone convinces themself that cables make big difference, I would think that they'd be silently content in their superior knowledge base. Alas NO ..... they continue on for literal years beating that drum. Perhaps they are wrestling with an inner self-uncertainty?
"After reading Iconoclast cables white papers describing what goes into the design of audio cables, I have a much better understand why some cables are expensive:"


Everybody does. Why that apples and oranges mix would matter still remains harder to understand.
kennyc,

You somehow forgot to list those who have tried, can afford, and then concluded it is not worth it at all.
thyname,

"This sophist’s blindtest experiments are meant to test the listener, not the gear."


With careful design, you could aim much better. With all this back-and-forth about blind testing, not much was said in terms of methods. Remember the last time you were designing a study? What did you spend most energy on and what did reviewers scrutinize probably the most? Exactly. Not the results.

speedbump6,

 "...scientific testing isn’t done to prove a personal theory, it’s done to prove the facts"


"Hypothesis" is the word you were looking for. At the same time, "testing", not "proving" would seem much more dignified in the press.
speedbump6,

"He could and would never settle for a true blind test don’t by independent researchers who could care less about what the results show. No matter how it was done, even if he initially agreed the process was sound, he would find the faults in the methods if the results didn’t turn out as he wished. He’s mad that point abundantly clear."


Not to take sides, but it seems that you are very familiar with roberttdid's inner workings. Could it be that you are slightly biased and incorrect in your strong affirmative statements? No matter how provoked you may feel, do not fall into a trap of disregarding your own statement...

"I’m not arrogant enough to to believe that I know everything..."




"Please understand that many (most?) audiophiles use there ears as a guide to what sounds best in there system(s)."

Could it be that designers of those products do use measurements to some extent?

mitch2,

geoffkait does not have that particular Discman I linked to, but his also does have ESP.

At the same time, I do have that yellow one with ESP which may explain why I understand geoffkait so well. Both of us have ESP. I just do not use mine that much.

mitch2,

"You’re close. It’s by ESP."
Surprisingly, but geoffkait is not making this one up. Many SONY Discmen, later also branded as CD Walkmen and including geoffkait's, have ESP.

Like, for example, this one...

https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/sony_discman_esp_sports_d_421sp.html