When to change a cartridge?
I currently own an EMT HD006 cartridge that cost about $1900. That's as much as I've ever paid for a cartridge. Previously I was in thousand-dollar territory. I can't imagine spending $5K for something that's assured to wear out. I play my turntable (VPI Prime Signature 21) every day for at least a few hourse. I guage that I put about a thousand hours a year on my cartridge, which is now at about 1500 hours.
I have read forums in which people talk about putting their cartridge under a microscope every few months. I don't own a microscope and I wouldn't know what to look for if I did. After reading forums in which people talk about cartridges wearing out before the manufacturer's recommended hours, I began to hear my cartridge slowly declining. I thought perhaps the attacks weren't as crisp.
I called my online dealer to discuss replacing mine, telling him that I thought I heard deterioration in the cartridge's sound. He said it doesn't work that way. I will know when my cartridge is ready to be changed. It will not be subtle. Often the suspension collapses.
My reaction was that a dealer wouldn't talk me out of spending about $2K unless that expense was foolish. So, I am still playing my EMT HD006 and not worrying about subtle changes as it wears down. The dealer said it might be fine for up to 3,000 hours.
I'm curious to know what other people do about their cartridges. Wait for the suspension to collapse and the thing sounds terrible, or monitor it more closely and perhaps even change the cartridge before the manufacturer's recommendation?
I think 3,000 hours is optimistic. If you keep track of the hours, I would think 2,000 would be the limit, assuming you have clean records and you clean your stylus. But when you get there, you don't have to buy a new cartridge! There are several places you can send it for a new stylus, and have the suspension refurbished if needed. I have used VAS and have been very happy with the results. |
IMHO, once you hear an issue you have already damaged your records. 800 hours seems to be the maximum life for a fine line stylus, and likely much less, but it’s pretty easy to send it off to Joseph Long or Steve at VAS for an inspection. And barring an incident that causes the diamond to cleave, a properly aligned stylus, with the correct anti-skate setting, will wear more, or less, linearly, much like a set of tires on an automobile. This is a scholarly work that looks at much of the available information, and it’s implications: https://thevinylpress.com/the-finish-line-for-your-phonograph-stylus/ The folks over at Hoffman are doing some interesting stylus wear studies as well, though they seem to be hitting some bumps in the road. |
I bought a Soundsmith Zephyr III and it’s a great sounding cartridge. I bought it partly because the stylus could be replaced for a fraction of the total price of $1500. BTW I bought this recently on Amazon to examine my needle. It works well. Digital Microscope Wireless Pocket Handheld USB Microscopes, 50x-1000x Zoom Fixed Focus HD Magnifier with LEDs, Inspection Camera Compatible with iPhone, Android Phone, MacBook, Windows PC (Black) |
It helps if you know what stylus type you have first. The original shape. I look for dirt and debris build up first. After that I look for a crack, a bend of the tip in any direction, and flat spots. It’s a little challenging because you have to look at a few angles. https://www.audio-technica.com/en-gb/press/understanding-turntable-stylus-types?srsltid=AfmBOort30fXkKv2p0z03zaxlnb87ItGTqV2yD8SnIRiH9tFdC7OTADt |
Soundsmith - retipping is around 20% or less of retail cost. Phono stage requirements here under PHONO PREAMPS section. |
@viridian...thank you for that link! I had not seen/read that before. Very informative! |
mofimadness, Bill Hart who owns that site is a contributor here. If you poke around the site, he has also published Neil Antin’s scientific deep dive into how to clean records. Antin was a Navy scientist whose expertise is quite extensive. https://thevinylpress.com/precision-aqueous-cleaning-of-vinyl-records-3rd-edition/ Apologies for taking the thread a bit off topic. |
wear is inevitable and so gradual it is best to make an estimate of hours played, and mail it to a professional for evaluation prior to the potential of groove damage. I bought a usb digital microscope, figured out how to 'see' with it, but I have no confidence in making decisions with it. answer for OP: now, 1st you need confidence your overhang/2 null points/azimuth/vta alignments and tracking force/anti-skate settings have been correct, periodically checked, properly maintained. note: re-builders and re-tippers say this is not typical, the majority they inspect have uneven wear (likely due to incorrect anti-skate forces). Those are sent in by US! 2nd, you need some record or guesstimate of hours played 3. you have been keeping the LP, stylus tip, cantilever shaft/suspension clean (vital to achieve long life). 4. what you heard/remember/still hear or don't hear with very familiar content. Predictions of average life depend on the stylus shape's, advanced shapes far exceed elliptical and are well worth the higher cost I check any advanced stylus that hasn't revealed wear at 1,000 hours, expecting to find it's ok, not causing damage, but smart to get a new stylus tip. AudioTechnica; Soundsmith; others _______????? (tell us your experiences) have rebuild/exchange programs, I got a half price exchange from AT VAS can retip, or new cantilever with tip, or complete re-build CERTAIN models, not all. I send Steve links to used cartridges I am considering, he gives me pre-purchase advice He put an advanced cantilever/tip on a MC AT33PTG/II Mono Body I bought He put an advanced cantilever/tip on a MM Shure 97xe, keeping the OEM damped brush. Happily it also fits my MM V15Vxmr body, JICO sells replacement parts for MM cartridges, I bought their SAS on Boron for my V15Vxmr body, and if I ever wear out the NOS OEM Beryllium/MR I just bought in a V15V-P, they have an SAS/Boron that fits that body. (I'll use that advanced P mount via a 1/2" adapter) //////////////////////////// IF you are not inclined to mount/align your own cartridges, I encourage buying a high end MM Cartridge, with advanced cantilever material and stylus shape that is simply replaceable (shure's pull out the front/AT's pull off the bottom), they auto-position. Thus you get the cartridge setup once, then you renew the auto-positioning stylus yourself, every 1,000 hrs is my advice.
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ps, the dealer's comment about going bad suddenly, i.e. suspension failure is just wrong IME. Accidents, bend it, break it, too much chemical on rubber ... yes, but that's uncommon failure, not wear. Their tips commonly wear out, need to be replaced. They age well: I have half a dozen used or NOS cartridges with suspensions that are 40 years old that are still well under 1,000 hours play, they all sound as good as I experienced other new/good cartridges along the way and compared to my 4 new purchased within the past 5 years. |
In regards to cleaning a cartridge, I once sent a Grado Reference into Grado because the cantilever had been bent by an errant hand. I am pretty sure Mr. Grado himself fixed the cartridge. One thing he told me was to stop using that gunk to clean my cartridge. (I was using Last cleaner.) He said diamond stylus's are so hard that dust brushes off them without the use of cleaners which build up on the stylus. Opinions? |
Assuming your cart is properly set-up, you may want to consider a empirical solution.... I have a few orchestral LPs that I know quite well and use them as references - each has LOTS violins at the end of the side, where the circumference is the smallest. As my stylus wears, the violins gradually sound less 'natural', becoming harsh, muddled, and fragile sounding. For me. this is the easiest and best way to HEAR when my stylus needs to be replaced. (yes, a test record could also work, but I prefer well recorded music). My fine-line styli have lasted much longer than my spherical styli. My records are, generally, very clean. Yes, I have a microscope and am comfortable looking for damage, flat spots, etc., but I would rather listen to my system! Good luck... |
inagroove, thanks for the suggestion. My system sounds great. I play all kinds of classical music, string quartets or bombastic pieces like Scheherazade that also has a very musical violin. I have pieces with fat-sounding violins and thin-sounding violins, and they all seem natural. Part of the challenge is I recently purchased new Sonus Faber Olympica Nova 5 speakers which portray a much more lifelike sound than my last speakers. I guess I am worried about a slow diminution that I have just gotten used to. But what I am taking out of this forum is that at least by 2,000 hours I should have the cartridge rebuilt. If I were feeling rich (which I'm not right now) I would have wanted to jump up in pricee to perhaps the low-end Koetsu, but I am very happy with the EMT. I think it's very good for its price range. Well, maybe just plain very good. I've never experimented with cartridges over $2K. |
Audio memory is notoriously short. For those that want an empirical (sonic) solution, which is actually quite subjective, it is best to just make a recording of the stylus after it has broken in, and then record another sample, with the same record, at 400 and 700 hours. That way you can compare them directly, back to back without relying on memory. Since stylii wear like tires, the decline is gradual and, in some respect, the finish line is somewhat arbitrary. Some set it at 3% IM distortion, which should be measurable, and this typically comes at 500-800 hours with a fine line stylus. Not sure where the forum has recommended 2000 hours as I do not see a consensus. Dogberry suggested 2000 hours at a max, Mr. Newcomb suggested 1000 hours, I suggested 500-800 and the paper that I linked puts it around 400 hours, but if you averaged it out, it would come to under 1000 hours. Another way to look at it is, if you have a $2500 cartridge, and retire it 20% too soon, which really shouldn’t happen, as it should be professionally inspected, you throw away $500, and if you waited too long you have compromised every record that you have played. It’s a lot easier for one to replace a cartridge than replace 2000, or 3000 records, probably cheaper, as well. |
This is a great post & thread! Another big thank you to viridian for that vinyl press link on stylus wear! I was under the impression that 1000 hours was about right for a Micro-Line diamond stylus like the MoFi Ultra Tracker MM. However, seems like 500 is probably more realistic. Now, I've got something else to worry about! While I don't mind sending the cartridge off to MoFi for re-tipping, I don't trust myself anymore to deal with remounting a new cartridge and dealing with the tracking calibration issue, which I think is Baerwald for my TT. Anyone care to weigh in on just how difficult this would be to do accurately and properly? Years ago, I changed out a bunch of cartridges with my old Phillips TT but that wasn't a very sophisticated TT. It had a detachable head, which made the process relatively easy, and I used a paper template or protractor in those days. Nowadays, there are much more sophisticated tools, which I don't have. Anybody know what I should expect to pay for a real expert with the proper tools to mount/install a new cartridge? Depending upon all the costs involved, I'm wondering if it might not be more cost-effective, in my case, to maybe just buy a new cartridge. |
P.S. FWIW, this is what I use to keep track of stylus/cartridge play hours: StylusTimer (Stylus Timer) | LP GEAR All you have to do is get into the habit of remembering when to turn it on and off. Even so, a few seconds or minutes missed, here & there, isn't going to be a big deal. |
Viridian, thank you for the in-depth article on stylus wear. There are a lot of variables involved, but one that is important to me is $ per hour a stylus costs, and also what my ear is hearing. The article mentioned female vocalists and how sibilance can be heard from a worn stylus. I played Joni Mitchell's live album "Miles of Ailes" this morning and my God her voice just hung in the air clear and pure. This is on a super fine line stylus with about 1500 hours on it. Am I damaging records? I can't really hear it. So, does it kind of become a tree falling in the forest thing? I have put an awful lot of money into my system lately, and a very big variable is a grouchy wife. She very much wants to believe the salesperson who told me the change wouldn't be subtle when I needed to replace my stylus. I started this forum to try to understand better when I would need to change my stylus with all variables considered. I have forty-year-old records and older. I have played them on pretty cheap cartridges I never changed. I have only begun to pay attention to that in the last ten years or so. Do I hear wear on my old records. Yes. Do I hear wear on all my old records? No. I really don't hear the wear on some of them. I do get pops and clicks that I hear, but I find that cleaning records in my Degritter gets rid of a lot of them. The grooves are picking up gunk the Degritter cleans out. Back to the money, which is an important variable. If I can't hear change, does it matter? I'll give you an example. When I buy a new cartridge do my newer records sound better? In other words, could I hear the damage on my old cartridge? The last cartridge I changed was a Sumiko Starling which I would have bought again but it's too difficult to mount. The pins are small and the wire leads slip off. It began to sound distorted like it had dust on it at around 2,000 hours. And it could have damaged records, but when I put the new EMT on those records, they didn't sound damaged to me. Judging subjectively, the variables are ridiculous. I have old records that never seem to wear. The newer 180gram records seem to wear quickly. I think the vinyl is softer on those records. They sound worn after maybe even five plays with a new cartridge. I know it sounds stupid or ignorant to put my subjective judgement up against in-depth studies, but from a money-per-hour perspective, I wouldn't want to buy a $2,000 cartridge and have to change the stylus after 500 hours. I'd probably stop playing records. So, I need to take that into consideration. And I'm looking for a kind of middle ground that also sounds reasonable to my pocket book. So, as far as the record wear variable, does it matterr if I can't hear it? Again, I'm thinking in dollars. If I had the money and an audiophile wife, I would happily change my stylus after 500 hours, but that's not my real world. |
I can’t say for certain but Soundsmith may be able to retip your cartridge and it’s worth a call or email. That’s if, of course, you think it’s needed. That would be considerably cheaper than a new cartridge. I am not sure I would replace a cartridge after 500 hours but I might repair/replace the stylus. |
Audio-B-dog, I take no issue with any decisions that folks make and apologies if I gave the impression that I felt differently. As I said what many consider the end of life is a somewhat arbitrary demarcation. And I was quick to point to the disparity of information given by participants in this thread. And that’s kind of it. Opinions are often repeated without a firm grasp of the very minimal scientific data available on the topic. And it really is perplexing how little data is available considering the billions of records that have been pressed. I am only participating because I have studied the topic at length and some may find the information of value. But we all pay our money, and make our decisions. Exactly as it should be. Knowledge is, however, power. Old audiophile, I think that the Microline and it’s analogs, Microridge, etc. are a very special case. Because the groove wall is contacted by two wings, it really does not flat spot, and retains it’s shape more, or less, throughout it’s life. Which probably ends when it starts contacting the bottom of the groove, rather than when the contact surfaces are no longer usable. IMHO, this shape is going to last quite a bit longer than others, and the data in the article that I linked was collected mostly before the invention of this shape. Oh, and I have the Stylus Timer and am such a dunce that I forget to use it. I ended up switching to numerical clickers off Amazon. I have one for each of my cartridges. Hey ya gotta find out what works for you.
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I am ignorant, so don't listen to me. Question is if you don't hear the difference can you still be damaging your records ? Of course, you damage the records each and every time you play them ! This is not a very sophisticated system. It's a matter of degree. Do you hear more noise? Having said that, I would think that 1500 hours is about time to change the stylus. I would. |
I think Michael Fremer said in one of his articles that groove wear is something of a myth, especially if you clean your records well and have your cartridge properly set up. I'm amazed how good some of my 50+ year old LPs sound even though they were played on some awful record players early in their life and were not cleaned then. I think I got about 1500 hrs. on my Monster Cable Alpha Genesis 1000--I counted each LP side I played on a nearby digital counter; I just don't recall the exact readout before I switched cartridges. I used LAST StyLAST stylus preservative before each play. I heard no obvious deterioration in sound quality, and that cartridge was still tracking better than the Lyra that replaced it. (But when it isn't mistracking, the Lyra sounds great.) |
Viridian, I think the salespeople at my online retailer told me that my stylus might even last up to 3,000 hours because of what you've said about its shape. Anyway, now that I know I can send it in and have a new stylus put on for about $400 to $500?, I'll have it retipped. If it gets up toward $1,000, I might reconsider. My online dealer will give me a 20% discount on a trade in. I have a Clearaudio Maestro (1200 hours?) sitting around that I could use in the meantime. It sounded great, too. A bit more bloom than the EMT. I must admit that being an audiophile is not easy because most people look at me as if I'm crazy, spending $2K on cartridges and $18K on speakers. I have a Hovland Radia amp that is 20 years old and I was worried about its deterioration. I was lucky enough to have access to Bob Hovland, the designer and manufacturer. He looked it over and said it was to spec. Less than $500. My wife still thought that was too much because it wasn't broken. But it is one hell of an amp. |
@viridian - great article, thanks. Guess I will retip 500-700 hours, Soundsmith carts looking economically better. |
The real credit for that work is due to Mike Bodell, who wrote the piece and did all the research. I just served as editor/publisher. I learned a few things in the process. I now keep track of stylus usage with a simple click counter (of course, Mike turned me onto a very well made vintage unit). Clean records go a long way. Incremental degradation is not apparent. I liken it to sneakers (or British "trainers"). You don’t realize they have lost their "bounce" until you put a fresh pair on. (Maybe it’s a dumb analogy). I think Mike mentions a reader who said his stylus was well past the normal conservative threshold and thought it still sounded fine, but then decided to send it out for a retip, and was pleasantly surprised by how much better it sounded after it was refreshed. I keep an eye on the stylus just for basic cleanliness and straightness of the cantilever-using relatively low magnification. I’m not really qualified to examine stylus wear under a microscope, so have used various retipping services, including those of the manufacturer (who will often replace, or rebuilt entirely rather than just replace the diamond and clean up the cartridge innards). I gather that the micro ridge type has a pretty hard limit at around 1,000 hours-- and that it should not be used after that. I had an Airtight Supreme done with that stylus shape, keeping the original cantilever. I had one Koetsu rebuilt by the factory before they went defunct. And have had a few others over the years- trade ups with Lyra, a rebuild by Van den Hul, etc. I thought Mike did a great job in addressing the issue and called for more transparency within the industry about realistic wear/life, rather than quoting the absolute outer limit for a cartridge to function. Kudos to him! |
whart, thank you for your clear write-up. I hate to be the "real-world guy," but looking into VAS for retipping they quote four to eight weeks, with shipping probably more like six to ten weeks. I would not be able to tell if the retipped stylus sounded better after that amount of time, especially since my ear would have gotten used to my Clearaudio Maestro over that waiting time. I'm not at all denying that you are correct. In fact, I believe you are correct. In my mind as an audiophile with a budget, the question would be how much better. For example I use Audioquest cables. Not their most expensive. In the middle of their line. I have no doubt that if I replaced my cables with high-end Nordost my system would sound better. But how much better at what cost? Of course, retipping my stylus would only be about $500, so we're not in Nordost territory. Just an example. Anyway, you and others have convinced me to have my EMT retipped. Thank you for the well thought out explanation. |
@audio-b-dog... you might want to give Andy Kim at The Needle Clinic a call. He is REALLY good and really fast. https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/andy-kim-needle-clinic |
@audio-b-dog - sonic memory is extremely tricky- I have to have the specific components or cable to hand and the ability to swap out to compare. It is a relatively rare thing to be able to tell immediately if a given piece is an improvement (rather than just a change). I’ll give you one example- I was running a very highly regarded line stage, and a dealer I trust brought over another unit. We plugged it in, let it warm up and I could tell immediately that it didn’t have the sonic qualities that made my system sing. Fast forward 6 months or so, the second line stage underwent a substantial revision. Did the same comparison in my system. I wanted to buy the "test mule" of it on the spot! Cables are even trickier. I started comparing them back in the ’80s. The dealer (a different dealer) lent me 4 different sets. I played with them for about a week, and chose the set that sounded the best. It wasn’t the most expensive of the bunch. Cables are also one of the last things I tend to do. There are some synergies, and some known matches with certain components, but a lot has to do with the overall voicing of the system and what you are after. I have very good cables in my main system and have had little need to upgrade- I did upgrade within the same brand the "earliest" cable in that system- from phono stage to line stage (the cable from the tonearm is captive) , but the core system has relied on the same cable since around 2007-8. On my vintage system, I deliberately chose to use less vaunted wire-- I use Canare 4S11 and Analysis Plus--the system emulates what I was running in 1975, when audiophile cable was barely in existence. That system, having had all the components sympathetically restored--some of them owned by me for more than 50 years--sounds to my ears the best it ever has. Much has to do with the glass- I use a lot of NIB NOS tubes, including GEC KT66s. The only thing I can suggest is that you work with someone who will allow you to try the cables and be able to return them without penalty. I have yet to come up with a "holistic" approach to system building beyond the obvious in terms of impedance, power, room size, relationship between speaker and amp, and tonearm and cartridge (compliance). On the main system, if I change a rectifier in the phono stage power supply, the voicing of the system changes, sometimes dramatically. I’ve gone through quite a few to get everything just so. I do hear differences when I compare in my room, with my system, under controlled circumstances. When I did the cables for the current main system, the manufacturer visited to swap out and demonstrate. I did not hear any difference on the power cable to my motor controller for the turntable, so passed on buying the high priced cable for that link in the chain. Other random thoughts- when I was comparing different types of isolation devices for the tube power supply to my phono stage, I tried 1/2 dozen. Some lent more clarity, but at a price- greater stridency. I found a compromise that gave me the best of both worlds. Ditto on the record clamp/weight for the turntable. I have on occasion swapped out the aftermarket device for the factory one and still prefer the aftermarket unit. Last thought (and much of this may be obvious)- the longer you can listen to evaluate, try a variety of different program material. It will be more telling. Some things impress initially but it’s longer haul evaluations that are more informing. You can often isolate what a given component (or wire) is doing, but that does mean you have to be familiar with all the rest-- evaluations in dealer’s show roooms- different system/room make it much harder. Sometimes I have to remind myself- this is supposed to be fun! Best, Bill Hart PS: @viridian's suggestion about making a recording if you have an A-D device is still a good suggestion even with a cartridge/stylus that has miles on it. You should be able to discern the difference, not relying just on sonic memory. |
whart, yes there are so many variables in improving a system. I inherited my Hovland Radia amp from an audiophile friend of mine who passed away. I was using a McCormack DNA-1 upgraded to the top level by Steve McCormack just a few years before I got the 20-year-old Hovland Radia (the only non-tube amp Hovland ever made). When I first compared the amps switching them out quickly, I liked my McCormack. It seemed more musical, throwing a wall of sound that was wide and deep. I was just about ready to sell the Hovland but something nagged at me. I listened to the amps for a good three weeks, leaving one in for a day or two and then putting the other in my system. Slowly I realized that the Hovland was providing a lot more inner detail and air between the instruments. The McCormack's wall of sound was comforting and pleasing, but as I became used to the Hovland's "sound I liked the air in its soundstage. Once I was able to hear that--in other words, my ear was a limiting factor--there was no question that the Hovland which was much more expensive than the McCormack was a much better amp. If I get a windfall, like a work bonus or an inheritance, I might decide to look into upgrading my system. Otherwise I don't buy equipment until something seems wrong. My ear has developed so that I can hear a lack in my system. I am a big fan of ARC's phono preamp and for years I owned the PH-3. One day it dawned on me that something was missing. I listened to a few solid state preamps that were well reviewed, but I like the ARC sound. I could not afford $9K for a new Ph-9, so I began looking in the used marked and found a PH-7 at a dealer in Canada. (I called every ARC dealer in the U.S. and Ph-7s were impossible to find.) I bought it and I think it's a terrific phono preamp. I guess my point is that upgrading a system is not only a question of money (although it definitely is) but also of how educated one's ear has become. I avoid listening to very expensive equipment I can't afford. The only reason I was able to purchase $18K Sonus Fabers was that I received a large inheritance, so my wife agreed to my splurge. I love the speakers. |
BTW, with this new amp change I am beginning to understand the difference between overly "analytical" systems in which the instruments are well separated, but they lack air. With my Hovland Radia, there is a definite separation between instruments both in width and depth, but the instruments sound as it they are enveloped in air, not just coming out of a black background. My new speakers were demoed to me against Vienna Acoustics in the same price range. The Vienna Acoustics were extremely accurate, but they were not "musical" like the Sonus Fabers. Again, that had to do with the air. Some people like a system where instruments come out of a black background. They see that as accuracy. I go to the symphony and hear music live a lot. The instruments do not come from a black background. They are in a kind of musical soup, but when I listen carefully, I can distinguish were the sound of each instrument is coming from. It's not always easy, though. |
As others have likely already pointed out, change the needle! No need to get a new cartridge. Needle life varies wildly: from 500 to 3,000 hours. Imho, keeping track of hours only tells you when you are getting to the point where needle inspection is wise. But without a microscope, that means sending it away to someone who has a vested interest in saying OMG this needle is worn. Contrary to what someone else here has said, I keep track of hours, compare it to the backup (I have three quality cartridges) from time to time) and rely on my ears. I find that the detail is the first thing to go, then the soundstage, but that’s me, others may find differently. Once there, it’s time for a replacement. |
unreceivedogma, I think air versus analytical instrument placement against a black background is one of the major breaks in the audiophile community. I go to live jazz and classical concerts and air is everything. A sax hovering in air, drums pounding out air. Like you, this is what I like. And I will be sending my cartridge in for analysis and probable retipping. Thanks. |
Having an EMT TSD15n, (the predecessor to the HD006) for the last 10 years I’ve been through this process a number of times. Having very clean records and stylus, I’ve found anywhere between 1500/1800 hours is easily achieved without major loss in sound quality. I’ve never let degradation get to the point of audible distortion. With regard’s retip, send it back to EMT. They don’t just put a new diamond on and call it a job, the cart gets a full strip down and rebuild, making sure the suspension and wire tensions are up to EMT spec. You’re essentially getting a new cartridge back. It’s not cheap, but you are ensuring you’re getting the same cartridge and the same sound you bought in the first place, something not guaranteed if you send it elsewhere. |
