The big days of maximum separation was the hard pans used back in the mid sixties. Try Rubber Soul.
What tracks offer the best left right separation?
Separation is a big part of a live performance. Name your medium streaming, turntable you name it but the key. Is the track you listen to and the separation you get.
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Proper imaging is one of the biggest goals and best aspects of my system, especially small groups. My best track for listening for proper balance and final anti-skate adjustment is this LP, all 3 guitarists play on side two, tracks 2 and 3, thus strong separation and strong center information is there. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friday_Night_in_San_Francisco get both CD and LP versions to help get it right. Live crowd noise can help also, IF the stage is centered, crowd big enough to give 'equal applause, cheers', as this one is. .................................. After research of many reviews, one example https://www.audioappraisal.com/audio-technica-at33ptgii-review/ I selected my cartridge based on it's superior channel separation (30 db) and tight channel balance (1 db). https://www.audio-technica.com/en-gb/at33ptg-ii ................................ Toe In for Imaging I have 3 wheels on my speakers (more weight per wheel than 4, no leveling refinement issues). I can adjust the toe-in (luckily I have a symmetrical wood grid floor with paper dots I squished down in the joints for reference). Myself, centered, IF separation is over-done, I toe-in more than normal. Two of us, little table between us, to maintain nice imaging: I aim the left speaker at the right chair; aim right speaker at the left chair. That gives a wider center, and maintains very nice l/r separation. It's the same method my DBX 100 Video speakers use by design. You are dimensionally closer to the speaker on your side, thus more volume (as usual), but you get more direct thus more volume from the opposite one aimed directly at you. Works. http://www.hifi-classic.net/review/dbx-soundfield-100-135.html .......................................... The reason I like to have remote balance from my listening chair is because some tracks benefit a Surprising Amount from a Very Small balance tweak. Some recordings, the singer is off center, i.e. Hot Sardines (she leaves room for the tap dancer), some the vocalist wanders about, you don't know, so use the test tracks to refine balance; then the CD to know what the engineers intended, then refine your anti-skate knowing that. ................................ I saw the Hot Sardines live in NJ, awesome. Bought this terrific album: https://www.amazon.com/Welcome-Home-Bon-Voyage-Sardines/dp/B07NBD1QDF What the heck, trombone/horns supposed to be left, piano far right, did the engineers screw up? Did I leave my McIntosh Mode Switch in Stereo Reverse (nope)? Turns out, the 2nd LP, live at Joe's Pub, NYC, Donna was there that night. Small slightly off center stage, the Piano was left, horns right. And the separation is not as wide as when I saw them live on a centered wide stage. So, I used my Stereo Reverse to ease my mind's search for 'correct'. After a few listenings, I now can accept both the Toronto and NYC recordings as presented. Eurythmics, Blue Nile come to mind for very purposeful l/r effects https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweet_Dreams_(Are_Made_of_This) https://www.discogs.com/The-Blue-Nile-A-Walk-Across-The-Rooftops/master/35779 Cassandra Wilson, dead center vocals, terrific musicians very distinctly located https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Light_%27til_Dawn |
When you get really good imaging, then as I keep yapping, BASS can be directional, in my case front facing 37 lb 15" woofers, monster magnets that I luckily inherited. Consider them a stereo pair of subs. I learned here, it’s not always the fundamentals, but the bass overtones that give directional cues, thus Ray Brown, Ron Carter, Charles Mingus is ...... over there, a great part of enjoyment of small groups. That’s why I recommend a stereo pair of subs (not swarms); self-powered; front firing; no ports, or front ports. Huge systems, sub swarms, for true bass fundamentals, very low crossover, are usually combined with mains that can make directional bass on their own, that’s for the big boys, I’ve never heard a swarm, except bees. btw, those woofers were originally in a console on 8" legs, facing downward. My first separate enclosures were identical box shape/volume on 8" legs, just transferred the front panel with 2 horns (wrapped in new linen). Woofer still downward facing. Current enclosures are taller to get the woofers front facing/directional, more box volume for a bit more extension, horns higher, tweeters aimed at seated ear height. Electrovoice engineers helped me design the enclosure, with optional rear port. Big room, far from walls, I opened the rear ports. Now, here, smaller space, I covered the ports inside. In each case, bass became more directional. ................... Tilted Back helps imaging I think (wood block above two front wheels within the skirt), to change the angle of reflections off the floor and ceiling), and for time alignment of highs/lows. |
From the 1950's: any Phase 4. Total left, right back and forth. Music snobs almost universally hated the effects. A new medium, stereophonic sound, was being experimented with, for good and bad. Ever since Phase 4, the industry has steered away from such "gimmicks." Soundstage almost becomes defined as a requiring a center performer, but not with Phase 4. It will challenge systems because performers are often 100% left or right. a good album, lots of stereo fun: Los Machucanbos |
ET phone home. Was talking with Rick about this just the other day, coincidentally enough. Low bass (below 80) is all mono. There is no such thing as stereo bass. This is easily proven, which is how I know, I tend not to take anyone's word for anything. Ran the subs stereo, ran them mono. No difference. It is all mono. However while the bass signal itself is most assuredly all mono the way we hear it most definitely is not. Everyone who has heard my system notices the superbly seamless bass imaging. It sure seems to be stereo! But again, for sure it is not. Sounds exactly the same when run mono. So what is going on here then? Well for one thing every note regardless of frequency is chock full of harmonic overtones. One octave up from 80 is 160, and we for sure can localize that. So all that has to happen is our hearing centers use that to form a mental image and localize the lower frequency fundamentals. That's all it is. This also explains why more subs such as with a DBA produces even more articulate and dimensional bass than just one or two. No matter where you put the one - or two. Another one of those things people have a hard time understanding- but recognize immediately when they hear it. Which they definitely do when they hear a DBA. |
lots of spatial info in bass notes including fundamentals and harmonics. You can always tell the multitrack electric bass “ experts from those who have a bass capable of high a, or something acoustic recorded in reverberant space . There is a LOT more to excellent bass than a forest of subs…… Where is Duke anyway ? For a master class in L R C separation few if any have duplicated Rudy Van Gelder and his work w Blue Note. |
Separation is not a part of live music as, unless you're lying face up on the stage, blend is what live music is about. Even in situations with minimal or zero sound reinforcement you're not erecting a wall between instruments (except the plexiglass barriers here and there). I've mixed decades of live shows for money (yes, I'm a mix slut) and the only thing I put in stereo is sometimes a tiny bit of stereo reverb which fools the audience into thinking they're having more fun. Otherwise the art of panning things together in recordings is what gets the mojo happening. |
I guess it depends on whether you are looking for studio ’tricks’ for L R separation, things like Dark Side of the Moon are always highly thought of, as is Wish You Were Here. Yellow as previously mentioned contains a lot of the same sort of studio pans, etc. But if you are looking for realistic recordings, with natural sounding LR separation, where the instruments are well separated from left to right, as well as front to back, nothing can beat well recorded classical recordings. They don’t even have to be ’audiophile’ recordings, most standard, major label, classical recordings have this natural sounding LR spatial separation. Classical recording engineers tend to use what is known as the Decca tree type of microphone setup, which is known to capture much of the ambient cues of the venue where the recording is taking place, usually a concert hall. A good classical recording, if the system is capable, will reproduce the violin section, which is on the far (audience) left of the orchestra, beyond the outer edges of the speakers, and the double basses, which are on the far (audience) right, beyond the outer edges of the speakers. Percussion should sound as if it is coming from behind all other instruments, and off to the right. |
