@ghdprentice , awesome pics in your profile. Your headphone setup looks incredible with those big tube amps. I see you went with a tasteful Persian rug that doubles as room treatments, nice. Of the systems you have posted which one gets the most use? If you could only keep one component of all your systems which one would you keep?
What is Your End Game System?
How do you "measure" your end game system? Is it by budget, how much it cost? Is it by the luxuriousness of your build and room?
Is it by your components being either state of the art or unobtanium? Is it by the satisfaction you get when you are sitting in your listening chair?
What is your end game system and how do you know when you have reached it?
104 responses Add your response
@overthemoon , your system looks awesome, love the attention to the power cables and conditioner . What is that white panel on the left wall, a room treatment? |
@kota1 thanks! I admit I needed to test and experiment to be convinced speaker cables, power cables and audio stands can make a difference. The white panel is a TV antennae... My rug with a 3/4" wool pad along with cellular blinds are highly impactful in my room. |
@overthemoon , as long as you have a 30 day return with your investment it is fun to try. If I were starting over I would do the room treatments before anything else, then the power conditioners, and then the IC's. When I did my build I did those in reverse order and that was a learning experience. |
@pvmike , I like it, might as well set the bar high right?
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I am almost at my endgame system. I have been into Hi-Fi speaker systems for about 4 years now. I started with headphones and went to the top of that summit before getting into speakers. I started with a pair of KEF LS50 and an Arcam A-38. They lasted about 1.5 years. Then it was on to Dynaudio Confidence C1 Platinums and a Hegel H360 with a Chord Hugo2 and M-Scaler. Changed out the Hugo for a Metrum Onyx and the system stayed like that for 6 months. I upgraded the Dynaudio to Magico S1MKII and the Dac moved on to the dCS Bartok. Added 2 JL Audio Fathom F110v2 subs. I though that was it this is my endgame. Fast forward about 18 months. I was looking at new speakers and ended up with the Rockport Atria II. Now I needed to upgrade the amp. I got into a pair of Octave MRE220 monos used. They were going eat amps but did not have the super black boxes and the output impedance was higher and caused some chaos with the mods paired with the Atria. Luckily they were used so I did not loose money on them and moved on to the Krell duo300xd. Now the rockports were coming into their own more bass and clarity. I am happy with the sound right?
My dealer friend then had been carrying MSB and I avoided a home trial but gave in. I ended up selling the dCS and getting a fully loaded MSB Discrete. At the same time I decided to sell the Krell and move on to the new Classe Delta separates. At this point I was done the system sounded great. I had a pre that was incredible for use with movie watching. It has built in peq and bass management. So now I focused on room treatments and I could be at the end. Last month I was at my friends shop. He had just gotten in Dan D’Agostino momentum gear. The HD pre and a pair of M400 monos. I was offer a deal that was too good to pass on. I auditioned them at home and needless to say they are now in my system and they are the endgame for pre and amps. I have no need to look at higher level amps as I don’t have the space of electrical system to support the relentless anyway. Plus my bank account is no where near large enough. I can stop here and be happy for now. I am sure I will upgrade my speakers and Dac in the future. |
@creditingkarma , thanks for posting your journey (so far :) I think most members here can relate that each time you move up on the adio ladder the next rung takes a combination of budget and experience. A journey that takes some people decades you seemed to accomplish in a sprint. If someone were just starting out what would you share you would do differently if you knew then what you know now? Personally, I focused on components first, IC;s second, power conditioning/cords third, room correction software fourth, and room treatments last. If I were starting over I would do the room treatments first. I got the process to really dial in the room watching a video by Anthony Grimani and he was even nice enough to exchange e-mails to help implement.
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Wow, that is the fast track. You have a couple beautiful systems. When your component search ends, you have tremendous opportunities in detailed adjustments… wire, room treatments, vibration control… etc. I finished my last upgrade about two years ago and after acquainting myself with what my system sounded like (a good solid 500 hours after breakin) I slowly started optimizing one thing at a time. Although I have nearly fifty years of experience at this, I still surprised myself. Absolutely every parameter I adjusted resulted in an improvement. While the system does not have a vastly different character, virtually every aspect of the sound has improved. I really spent my time very carefully choosing or adjusting each. Here is a list of stuff that contributed: Speaker location Speaker toe in Moved equipment from between speakers Wall treatments Bolsters at the wall floor Interconnects Added another direct line for the amp power cords ethernet connections Vibration control careful cable and wire routing So, I’m guessing you have tremendous opportunities for achieving even greater sound. Great equipment like yours is capable of amazing feats. |
my t-fusors on the side walls and ceiling are empty. my intention was to get the diffusion but not to absorb any energy or change the tonal balance. thank you for the kind words. i love my vinyl collection and play them often. yes; having clean power with plenty of headroom is the foundation of any good system. the Equi=tech did make a significant positive difference.
.there were lots of decision points along the way, where i might have made alternate choices. but mostly my steps forward have been linear. my system building has been more about my learning curve, than buying particular pieces. my biggest single commitment was to build a great room. and it’s still the dominant issue in what i hear. not everyone has that choice, so i feel lucky about being able to do that.
so my advice is to keep your mind open and follow your ears. develop your own references so you can stay true to what sort of sound you want. don’t buy with your eyes. yet don’t be afraid of going with your gut sometimes. it’s a fun hobby after all and so have fun.
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exactly!. i am really looking forward to that part.....😂
thank you for the kind words. |
The closest I have gotten to a custom built room was moving from a condo where you can never "unleash the beast" to a house where noise complaints aren't an issue. In the back of my room I have too much open space but found moveable acoustic panels and other work arounds that were the best compromise I could find. That will be a great goal though, to move up to a custom built theater/room. |
I like the race car analogy. To make it faster and better there are hundreds or thousands of elements. As with a stereo system. Can a destination system be attainable? Or will “audiophilia” prevent this? In retirement, my system has become central. 4 hours of vinyl and 4 hours of 2 channel HT. Cool “job”. Recently “coming home” to Quad 57s, there is a search for the “right” amp. This also brought up upgrading my analog front end. The end is not quite in sight, but maybe close? p |
FWIW, I just added the before and after calibration measurements of my system in my profile/virtual system if anyone is interested. The calibration software was the paid upgrade for Audyssey Pro license and the necessary calibrated mic which is on a totally different level than the software and mic that comes with the unit when you buy it.
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@mglik the race car analogy is good. @kota1 mentioned measuremen@ghdprentice mentioned speaker placement. These are the overlaps with race car analogy.
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@mglik , are you considering monoblocks for the Quad 57’s? I am not an amp expert but the reviews on the Van Alstine DVA M225 monoblocks seem to say that it hits way above its price. It has a preamp that is designed for it, the DVA Digital preamp. "Gentleman, start your engines": :)
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I’m new to the game but I did a ton of research and I ended up with a tube amp and a streaming dac plus my Klipsch Cornwall IV’s. I’ve been loving it. As long as the original recording doesn’t suck this system delivers. Great recordings sound amazing. As good or close enough to anything that I have heard at audio shows. And the reaction of people when they come over and listen. Friends and family jamming until the wee hours with smiles on their faces. And with a clean recording such as Child in Time from the Made in Japan album, I can literally play the music so loud that it will annoy my neighbors. All of that checks a lot boxes. And I an finishing a room upstairs just for listening. The space where I am setup now is far from optimal so things should get better. There will always be something new or different or intriguing. But I don’t intend to endlessly pour money into this hobby. I’m pretty close to endgame. I wanted a massive, room dominating sound that was clean and clear and nuanced when needed. I’m there. |
@chiadrum , first, welcome to the forum and thanks for sharing your story in this thread. Man, it must be great to get what you want jumping right into the hobby. There are many members that have a lot of experience with tubes (not me though) :). Klipsch are typically very efficient speakers and that is a good formula for some of those tube amps with lower power. Do those Cornwall's need a lot of space? I have a Klipsch Gate streamer that I use in the kitchen paired with an active speaker and a great Klispch integrated amp called the Powergate. Both are part of my DTS Play-Fi whole house audio setup. They are more entry level products and still sound great. Congrats!! |
I am rapidly approaching my end game system. The only significant upgrades left are replacing linear power supplies, and some fuses. My desired end system is definitely measured by budget, number 1. Second is the space I have available. These constraints are concrete, but most important in any purchase is its sound. Does it suit my listening preferences. I’m happy with my amp, streamer and master clock in present form, but these could and may be upgraded if sufficient funds fall my way. Have sorted speakers, DDC, Dac, network switch, speaker cables (just recently), USB cable, clock cable, footers, power cables, digital cable, interconnects; all as final purchases.
Having been in this hobby for 46 years, I unable to fully describe the pleasure I get from my system as it stands. Unbelievable, from where it started.
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@jerrybj , congratulations! I am noticing in this thread that attention to the details is important. May I ask which network switch you chose? That is something I am currently shopping for. Can you please post your system and some pics in your profile? Thanks |
I like doing things a little outside the norm. Was initially looking at a Fidelizer Etherstream, as I began researching things. I took the Cisco SG110D-08 they used, bought one on Ebay UK, and sent it to Fidelity Audio for them to put in their C4Mk2 clock. Small footprint, 12v input, and no tax/import duty! Loving what does in my system. |
@kota1 --
As a way of approaching my setup development and current status, the latter only - the rest follows by necessity from that in whatever form it might take or is allowed to. That is, imposed budget constraints (that most must abide by to varying degrees) in some measure dictates the eventual expenditure, yes, but I have assembled my setup over years with an open mind and more with regard to implementation/sense of context/forest for the trees than a slavish "what’s more expensive is necessarily better"-stance, and with a product "bandwidth" spanning from high-end segment gear to pro ditto and DIY. Part of my gear (DAC/preamp and Belles amp) is remnants in a sense from earlier systems with a different approach that has now branched into a more physically all-out, fully active and subs-augmented system. Some of what I have now could’ve been even more "all-out" if budget had permitted at the time (like 21" beast B&C driver-loaded tapped horns and Vitavox midbass + multicell horns), but the essentials of it would’ve been more or less comparable to what I currently have.
What comes from hereon (pretty much what’s outlined in parenthesis above, or certainly a variety thereof) in its essential nature will mimic what I have now, which is to (crudely) say a fully active-as-separates approach, dynamically uninhibited/headroom galore, fully or hybrid horn-loaded and therefore high efficiency, prodigious displacement and digital source only. It’s not that I don’t care for an analogue source, on the contrary, but simply that it’s a prioritization with digital only and the efforts invested here, which is also a better suit with my overall design philosophy. It would be a further refinement of what I have now, if only with certain aspects of the sound, but very much in the same "spirit" or ballpark. Actually knowing one’s heading to get there by already being there in a sense, is a relief; the framework is in place, now awaits the final touches. |
@rvpiano , can you post your system in your profile? Like to check it out, Thanjs |
@rvpiano , my bad, it didn't load properly first time I looked. Those speakers look like they must throw a huge soundstage. I have seen those Tritons in a lot of reference systems in the by lines of reviewers. Same with the Cambridge streamer and Benchmark DAC. How long did it take to assemble everything and dial it in? Looks like every component is at the top of Stereophiles recommended list. Nice job |
I honestly never consulted Stereophile’s list. It took me about 2-3 years once I decided to begin a major upgrade. |
@rvpiano , it might seem like luck but at some level your gut must known that amp would be a sleeper. Nice job! |
@phusis ,wow, that is an end game. I knew those were theater speakers the second I saw the pic and I have seen pics before where members put them behind a screen, built into a wall. Your setup doesn't hide them but has them stand up and salute, nice. I know how it goes with "final" touches as there is always room for something to squeeze a little more. Do you take measurements? Thanks for posting. |
@kota1 wrote:
Thanks. To my mind there’s something to be said of the "aesthetics" of functionality as a very clear reflection of ’form follows function,’ and not the other way ’round as something that more predominantly caters to interior decoration and (anti-)size demands. Pro cinema speakers are meant to be placed and hidden behind perforated screens, and thus any design considerations as it pertains to their looks are zilch (I guess this can be said of most pro designs). If anything there’s an honesty to their appearance, not least with regard to the design efforts invested towards functionality; what you see is what you get, and yet to many an audiophile this may be misconstrued as sonically crude and unfit for a domestic environment.
Indeed. Pragmatically speaking "final touches" can very well be, maybe even mostly so about that endless tinkering within a given setup context that may involve the occasional and local hardware replacement, yet as something that wouldn’t affect the overall approach and path chosen. "Final touches as a refinement work-in-progress within a specific setup context" may be the more appropriate way to go about it.
Yes, near-field measurements have been taken of the horn section on top to assist digital filter adjustments and finding the precise frequencies to place notches and a mild peak suppression (these measurements fairly closely mirrored those found via EV’s own measurements, which initially served as an outset). From hereon the specific gain and Q-values of these minor corrections have been found by ear. The remainder of the driver section, i.e.: the EV bass bin + tapped horn subs, use no PEQ’s within their frequency span, other than of course cut-off frequencies, slope type and gain structure. |
My end game setup, including the room would be centered around top of the line MBL speakers. If I can't afford those, then one notch down in MBL lineup - 101 E vs. 101 xtreme in current lineup. A good tube preamp would be next, and 101 Es have very poor sensitivity of 81 db, so a good strong set of solid state amps would be in order. I doubt I would be able to afford x-tremes, and even if I had $200K to spend on something awesome made in Germany, a Porsche would be much higher on the priority list. |
A Porsche, while fun do drive plus being a great sports car, and it has that "look at me" factor, they are not really all that dependable. If you do buy one, be sure to have Geico Auto Insurance, and include in your policy, the Mechanical Breakdown Insurance. THAT will save your bacon, unless that is, the sound of Benjamins flying out of your wallet. :P
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That Porsche shock tower looks like buildings I saw after an earthquake here in Christchurch NZ - the concrete pilings were driven straight up through the concrete floors. Not as bad though as a Mitsubishi Evo driver at our Audi club meet where some wag turned the active yaw control off and went straight off the track on the first lap. Car was a write-off. Never saw him again.
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@jerrybj I have the etherstream2. It’s very good and worth every penny. I think he underpriced it actually. It’s outperformed other switches that cost way more. I love it’s small footprint and that I can run it off a linear power supply. |
I have been thinking about an "endgame" headphone system and considered trying to match cans with an amp. I have always liked Sony so they made it easy by building what they are calling their own end game system, "Sony Signature Series": The culmination of a lifetime’s pursuit of audio excellence, Signature Series products transcend the limits of high resolution sound, achieving an unparalleled listening experience. I bought the headphone amp/dac/pre and will see how it performs as a DAC and a 2 CH preamp in my home theater before getting the matching cans.
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