Wise advice !
A little thought and creativity with the acoustical treatments and the colors of the covering will make the installation visually either unnoticeable, or very attractive and will do far more for the sound quality of your system than any equipment upgrade.
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One of the most overlooked considerations, from my chair, is the amp to driver interfacing, starting with getting rid of the passive crossover between the amp and speaker/its drivers. That naturally necessitates doing the crossover duties prior to amplification on signal level (i.e.: active configuration) and having a dedicated amp channel for each driver section, which in turn means amp load independency between each of these sections. This way (i.e.: both getting rid of the passive crossover on the output side of the amp and having each amp channel drive a limited frequency span) the individual amp channels will see a significantly easier load presented to them, thereby making more effective use of their power envelope and quality potential; finally control the drivers better with direct driver connection and harnessing more of their potential as well.
Next is higher speaker efficiency, or ideally no less than ~95dB sensitivity across the board to lessen thermally induced compression issues (not least as a dynamic phenomena with dulled transient response), and to aid overall ease and fluidity of reproduction. (Then there's the importance of matching directivity patterns, especially at crossovers between different driver sections for good, smooth power response).
When combining above two (or three) aspects in speaker design, a significant bottleneck in audio reproduction has been addressed. Active configuration isn't just about removing the passive crossover as the perhaps most "visible" measure, but as well - by the same token - to make way for amp load independency in each of their sections, which in turn affects driver performance and accuracy.
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I’m always amused when audiophiles push their version of ‘musicality’ as the ultimate truth.
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This way (i.e.: both getting rid of the passive crossover on the output side of the amp and having each amp channel drive a limited frequency span) the individual amp channels will see a significantly easier load presented to them, thereby making more effective use of their power envelope and quality potential; finally control the drivers better with direct driver connection and harnessing more of their potential as well.
@phusis
I do agree with this approach. In addition to the benefits you cited, you can match amplification with frequency range; for instance, those old Bryston monoblocks you have laying around will do great on bass duty, leaving you free to spec SS Class A amps on mids, etc. or as your heart desires.
Active crossover implementation is far from trivial, though, especially if you wish to avoid the AD - DA conversions a digital crossover entails.
You could put together relatively inexpensively active speakers with onboard modular amplification and a USB-programmable DSP module or even a SBC running Linux. Thermal management is going to be tricky if electronics are integrated onboard the speakers. I've been kind of mulling over something like that.
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@devinplombier wrote:
I do agree with this approach. In addition to the benefits you cited, you can match amplification with frequency range; for instance, those old Bryston monoblocks you have laying around will do great on bass duty, leaving you free to spec SS Class A amps on mids, etc. or as your heart desires.
The possibilities of amp permutations with outboard active configuration are many, and they’re tempting for an audiophile in an effort to "flavor" or power differentiate between the different driver sections as one sees fit. An engineering approach will likely have a different set of criteria for more technically founded amp matching choices that takes into consideration many factors of both amps and drivers, while also including budget constraints, heat dissipation issues and other that are not strictly linked to optimizing sound quality per se, but rather aims at working around design limitations of a bundled, a smaller sized form factor within a given price range.
The audiophile who chooses outboard active configuration and thereby mostly a "DIY"-approach to both component choices and filter settings will have carte blanche in most areas here, and essentially is only limited to achieving a particular sonic goal that falls back on his/her own abilities into implementing everything entailed and whatever time and effort is invested with that. While being inspired by pre-manufactured, bundled active speakers with built-in plateamps, DSP and even DAC’s would seem obvious, it’s also a potentially restrictive outset we shouldn’t impose on ourselves. Going outboard active, while intimidating at first, gives one a wider palette of choices that aren’t restricted by size, price, design principles or other, and while most don’t have the R&D insights of companies dedicated to making bundled active speakers we must remember that they’re also and mostly working around restrictions that we don’t have to do. Why put the amps inside the speakers when they can be outside, and typically in much better quality? To save cable length? Well, seeing the forest for the trees should put that argument to rest. Same with DAC and DSP; we can choose whatever we want outboard actively, and have better quality.
Going back to the choice of amps with outboard active config., my experience has gone from what you suggest and may even advocate; lower powered class A solid state amp for the higher frequencies and class D variant power beasts for the lower dittos that necessitate more juice, to currently using essentially the same high quality and high powered class A/B studio amps top to bottom. Using the same amp topology and preferably brand/design over the entire frequency range, including subs, isn’t trivial, and aids overall coherency and tonality (which is very much co-founded in the sub octaves). Consensus (or dogma?) points to using less power in the upper octaves and from amps that differ topologically from what’re used for the lower octaves, but if more wattage sounds equally well or even better with the highs and lends the opportunity to use similar amps from subs to highs, then I’ll dare anyone to explore the benefits provided with this approach.
Active crossover implementation is far from trivial, though, especially if you wish to avoid the AD - DA conversions a digital crossover entails.
An additional A/D to D/A conversion step with a high quality DSP unit is the least of your worries (and with a digital input you can avoid this conversion step, but I wouldn’t look for a DSP solely with the intention of eyeing one out with a digital input - there’s much more to it than that as a qualitative measure, if it even is). What is important is how you go about filter settings and all that requires within a given acoustical framework. This is the real beast and where you can really unlock the potential of your active setup, apart from using quality outboard components through and through, and not letting yourself be restricted by a small size factor of speakers.
You could put together relatively inexpensively active speakers with onboard modular amplification and a USB-programmable DSP module or even a SBC running Linux. Thermal management is going to be tricky if electronics are integrated onboard the speakers. I’ve been kind of mulling over something like that.
Indeed, but how I wish more would venture into those deeper waters for a more all-out approach with an outboard active setup. Give it a shot - you may be amazed.
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@phusis
I'm actually of two minds. I believe the "external" route is actually easier to implement, gives better flexibility, and is likely to yield better sound quality.
On the other hand, I think there is a certain elegance to a high-end system that consists of nothing more than two speakers, especially when those are pleasing to the eye.
Dutch & Dutch, Burckhardt, KEF, a French company whose name I forget right now, and others have produced examples of the latter. If only Dutch & Dutch could manage to get out of its own way, the 8c could be the best system 98% of people will ever own. Instead it's an unmanageable walled-garden mess, albeit a fantastic-sounding one.
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It's the room. It has a greater influence on what you hear than any source, amplifier, speaker, or processor. And if you argue it doesn't apply because you don't plug it in, realize the end result is akin to a DSP, only better.
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IMO Serviceability. Can it be repaired if needed? Either by a company or technician that specializes in that particular product, or by relatively easy access to the factory, preferably in my own county. Also certain gear in today’s world cannot be repaired, but needs to be replaced, so that’s a consideration as well.
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@aewarren 100%
Is this fun? If buying a piece of gear (new or used) from shopping to buying to opening the box to setting it up to listening to it isn’t fun for you, something is amiss.
Also, will the new piece of gear allow you to enjoy listening to “Exile on Main St.” all the way through from Rocks Off to Soul Survivor.
YMMV
kn
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Quality stands for equipment and speakers. What components and speakers are placed on dramatically influences everything from noise floor to sound stage and dynamics. Few years ago I placed a very respectable system initially on an IKEA bench, (yes I know better), then finally placed everything on a proper Quadrasprie SVT stand, beyond shocking. I knew better, but wow! Everything radically fell into place.
Many items outside components and speakers are overlooked, I find that particular item the most frequently dismissed, misunderstood and oft poorly executed.
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I have to wonder why so many contributors here are assuming that something as basic as room acoustics is being overlooked. Are they merely misunderstanding the question and confusing "overlooked" with "most important", two completely different things? I have no way of knowing but I really doubt that many people on this forum have overlooked the importance of their room as it applies to sound quality. Or maybe the assumption is that listeners outside of this forum are overlooking their rooms?
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Where you position your speakers and good cables,but you don't need cables that cost hundreds of dollars....
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Many people building a system often underappreciate the Preamplifier. Be very careful and audition in your system without compromise.
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imho, people underestimate importance of clean power. I put in a new dedicated 20amp service for my "rig". I also spent 500 on a high end Furutech plug in the wall. These two actions made a Huge difference in sound.
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imho, people underestimate importance of clean power. I put in a new dedicated 20amp service for my "rig". I also spent 500 on a high end Furutech plug in the wall. These two actions made a Huge difference in sound.
That's two separate actions. The 20A home run to the panel may very well have made a difference for the better, depending on the state of your home wiring and the specifics of your system.
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@mlapenta Correct. That Furutech combo is nuts. I've not engaged in the dedicated 20A line, but do not doubt. I've approached that part with a Puritan 156 conditioner, but you make a salient point attacking the source first.
Cumulative is the point here. Improvement in all things has a cumulative affect in outcome.
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This is a fascinating diversity of viewpoints. Many valid ideas and perspectives have been raised so far. It strikes me, though, that the fundamental question posed by the OP has not really been hit in the bullseye. Perhaps the answer is so obvious that it goes without saying for most of us: The first and most important consideration to be addressed every time we are going to buy anything related to our systems should be to decide from whom to buy it. Or to state this as a first principle: Pick your dealer first.
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Synergy, through the entire audio chain. This will also include treating the room and having your ears professionally cleaned and detailed.
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@devinplombier wrote:
I’m actually of two minds. I believe the "external" route is actually easier to implement, gives better flexibility, and is likely to yield better sound quality.
Good to know some people feel this way about it.
On the other hand, I think there is a certain elegance to a high-end system that consists of nothing more than two speakers, especially when those are pleasing to the eye.
Definitely. Save perhaps a single streamer/DAC/preamp sitting solitarily on a shelf, it makes for a simple, clean looking system.
Dutch & Dutch, Burckhardt, KEF, a French company whose name I forget right now, and others have produced examples of the latter. If only Dutch & Dutch could manage to get out of its own way, the 8c could be the best system 98% of people will ever own. Instead it’s an unmanageable walled-garden mess, albeit a fantastic-sounding one.
Never heard the Dutch & Dutch 8c’s, but they are very well reviewed. Another Dutch-based manufacturer, Grimm Audio’s LS1c active speakers on the other hand I do know, and fed by their MU1 streamer are a great sounding package. Not cheap, but when you think of the dough that can be spend on a separates, passively configured setup that would seek to achieve a comparable-ish performance, one realizes the Grimm system will turn out to be the less costly option, and - depending on preferences - most likely better sounding at that.
@aewarren wrote:
I have to wonder why so many contributors here are assuming that something as basic as room acoustics is being overlooked. Are they merely misunderstanding the question and confusing "overlooked" with "most important", two completely different things?
+1
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I have to wonder why so many contributors here are assuming that something as basic as room acoustics is being overlooked. Are they merely misunderstanding the question and confusing "overlooked" with "most important", two completely different things?
Grounding is overlooked and powerful...
Vibrations control is overlook too but less so than proper grounding...
Acoustics controls of the system /room is the most important factor by far...
The most important lesson is that no factor can replace another factor or even compensate for its lacks... This is why all working dimensions parameters matter...
A bad dac, or a non synergetical piece of gear, cannot be cured or compensated really by any other mechanical,electrical or acoustical controls...
But a simple tweak can give something sometimes no easy to buy gear upgrade will do ... (Schumann generators for example)
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OP: What is the most overlooked consideration? Don't believe quality components and room acoustics are the most overlooked. Most here drilled down to exactly that, most overlooked. Overlooked not the same as most important.
We've all been caught, confirmation bias leading us down a road only to discover "wrong thing". Thought my DAC or preamp were experiencing a 60Hz ground loop. It was the ceiling fan downstairs humming away. Overlooked that effect. Doh!
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Synergy is by far most important , the dac or front end most important why ?
for the incoming signal comes through and this dictates how it is going to sound down stream , once information is lost then it cannot be fixed down stream
a quality dac very important , then maybe loudspeakers .
cables too are much more important then many think necessary
I have had several , the Cardas clear are possibly my next cables
gidital absolutely nexeccary , good Ethernet cables especially at the end point
usb for sure .I just bought a Upper tier Tubulus audio and Stealth Tunable usb cable , worth every penny extracting more detail, for my audio system.
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And, you know, always put the cart before the ox.
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How is your room “the most overlooked consideration when buying a piece of audio gear”? Because if your room is all lath and plaster walls, or super modern with large pane glass windows and concrete floors and walls, and is overly bright requiring gear that has significantly rolled off treble? Or because your room has shag carpeting with Elvis and tiger fabric wall hangings everywhere and acoustic tile ceilings that suck up treble? In those cases I see the room weighing on your purchasing considerations.
And while super important, purpose building a space for audio, or purchasing substantial room treatments for an existing space seems like a separate topic for a separate thread. When I think of purchasing gear, I think of stuff downstream of the electrical outlet and is available for purchase on Audiogon. Based on the OP’s original post, I think that is what they were asking about as well.
kn
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System and room correction combined with solid quality amplifiers and speakers.
Dirac Live room correction can be a "game changer" in achieving optimal sound. Check out our videos and tech blogs and resources on utilizing tools like Room EQ Wizard (REW) for system setup and Dirac for true time domain correction. Deer Creek Audio emphasizes the importance of a system simplicity, single digital-to-analog conversions and purity in the audio chain.
Deer Creek Audio - Digital Signal Processing Products
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I consider many things when buying a component. I live in the south so it gets very hot in the summer. So one of my issues is can I live with this item? Will it put out too much heat? How much will it cost me to own this item? Will my electricity bill go up? Will I have to re tube the unit in a year? I am not a reviewer, so musicality plays a big role in my choice. I listen to quite a bit of music that is not recorded very well. So I do not need something Hyper revealing.. I want good resell value. I may want to sell it if I upgrade my system.
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Synergy is of course important but room acoustics can be definitive.
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