What is the most dramatic way of increasing a speaker's Bass and Low mid?

If i were you id go read Dawkins for evidence of lack of god therefor...;) but your taking us to a whole different topic here my good man;) beliefe is not something i need to share with anyone and it is as personal as personal can be- non transferable. Its evidence i need when it comes to frequency response...

I want to see an eq curve of several cables done by the same test on the same equipment in the same session done by a third party non affiliated, I do not care for what a manufacturer publishes, as much as i don’t believe Enron...;)

dumbeat, check out Shunyata cables for starters. They put their data up for the world to see. 

If you want to read about evidence for God, start with Michael Behe's classic Darwin's Black Box. 

Ordered the Schiit Loki 4 band EQ.
Maybe -1 or -2 db at 2k and +1 or +2 db boost at 400 or 20hz(which actually starts at 300hz) would correct the system to sound more to my liking... Ill report back...

Trying to eq with several $5,000 cables sounds a bit far from my definition of sanity...

Schiit Loki

Looks cheap enough to give it a try!

Just to add to this:
Some Speaker and Amp companies charge thousands more than their designs should cost because the wire harness inside is made with thousands of dollars in wire. That is a selling point and an opportunity to pocket a lot of extra dough.
They should offer the same product made with simple wire as an option that costs the same minus the wire price tag. See what people buy when they compare the 2 options...;)

Hoever, for the same money you could buy a much better design, with better "Important" components, handmade point to point, much better sounding that uses standard high quality that costs a fraction of the boutique wire.

Now for the consumer who, during the day, is a doctor or lawyer or accountant, and knows no better than reading forums, he’ll go and spend the top dollar for the lesser design, lesser sounding product because of the "Wire" while he could get the same if not better sound from a simply better designed and made product with less expensive wire.

Now you tell me which product you would buy?

Schiit Loki,

Finally, a word about cables. Studio use of cables has little relevance to domestic systems and cables.

Beg to differ.

The job of the audio cable is the same in either case: Transmit the signal with as little signal loss and interference/distortion as possible. The same electrical theory applies wherever you are using audio cables.

Though pro applications can become even more critical (due to often longer cable lengths,  and other in the field issues). And when it comes to the claims that boutique audiophile cables are required to pass truly high fidelity signals, the facts about the cables actually used to make the recordings are exceptionally relevant: Every time you put in your new Ultra Amazing New Cable and ooh and ah at the clarity, detail, nuance and sonic information, you are in fact hearing the the quality of sound that was passed through good old, standard grade cables pros use. In fact, you are also hearing whatever cables were the weakest link in the chain.

This in of itself should give an audiophile pause when he thinks it requires high end cabling to pass extremely high quality sound. The most expensive systems in the world, producing the best sound in the world, are essentially "using" basic cables to achieve their sound, insofar as they are playing mostly recordings made using basic cables.

I work in post production sound, and have had my work mixed in many fantastic mixing theaters, many of which sound simply amazing. And I know what cables have been generally used in many of them (I even knew the company making the cables to order for the studios, basically versions of Canare, Belden....). The idea that non-boutique cabling is required for amazing sound is just ludicrous on so many examples in the pro world.

An exceptional way to mediocre sound is to ignore aftermarket cables, and or stay with "affordable" cables to avoid comparisons and advancement.

Sorry, but I believe this needs to be called out for what it is: B.S.

I use "affordable" belden speaker cable. A long run of it at that.
And a rag tag collection of interconnects (much of it the old Kimber PBJ, which I bought many years ago, though some others as well).


I’m quite familiar with aftermarket cables - have owned them, borrowed, them, have heard my speakers on up to $45,000 and more worth of cabling (Nordost and others). I’ve had a range of Shunyata power cables to try out, etc. (Blind tested against a standard $15 power cable, no discernible difference). Did my speakers sound great with the expensive cabling? Yes! Did they sound great with the not-expensive cabling? Yes!

I have a long thread detailing my most recent "speaker journey" looking to see if I want to add another pair of speakers to my system - heard many of the latest from Magico, Focal, Raidho, Devore and tons of others. Inevitably all were hooked up to expensive aftermarket cables, amps, sources using aftermarket power cables, yadda yadda....

I never heard sound substantially better than what I get at home with my affordable cabling, no revelations of detail, tone, soundstaging, smoothnes, clarity. When I’d get home and spin the same tracks, I heard all those goodies, and preferred my home set up.

I played some vinyl for a friend who is a musician/producer last night, and he was simply astonished by the utter clarity and realism of the system "like I was on the floor where it was recorded, experiencing the real sound."
Another friend is a reviewer of high end gear who has had tons of expensive cables, speakers, amps etc through his place, declared after hearing some vocal tracks on my system that it was so realistic it was almost unsettling.How in the world did my system with "mediocre" cabling impress someone so used to listening through ultra high end cabling??? Maybe the influence of cables isn’t quite what it’s cracked up to be, in the hierarchy of relevance.


Now, is this simply to brag about my system? No. Because most of us hear have fantastic sounding systems. I only bring all these details up to rebuff this false idea, repeated too often in posts like yours, that one has to move beyond "affordable" cables or suffer "mediocre" sound.

It’s simply false, and I think it’s a disservice to promote this idea to people who may not know better and will enter this hobby having absorbed this idea they have to spend more money on cables than they really need to.
It’s one thing to perhaps claim that the properties of an aftermarket cable may be impressive in some respect, and even may alter the sound of a system (and then we’d have to go in to how it is doing that). It’s another to claim that aftermarket boutique audiophile cables are *necessary* for realizing truly high fidelity sound.

An exceptional way to mediocre sound is to ignore aftermarket cables, and or stay with "affordable" cables to avoid comparisons and advancement. Having worked with dozens of brands of cables over decades not only are cables responsible for far, far more than 1% of a home system’s sound, but the selection of cables can literally make or break the components and speaker’s performance.
YMMV

thanks Douglas.
Well, whatever huge differences in cables ot should be measurable.
Would you provide a chart of different wire and the Measured difference they made?
Otherwise its like asking someone why he believes in god. Belief has nothing to do with this topic- Its not a serious argument. I need data.

There are more golfen ear people claim its a marketing scam(to get tons of money out of rich people who think there is a real differemce) than people who actually use it.. so the jury is more than out on this one.

i hear claims like “oh i got so
much more bass with cardass this or that”. Which frequency? By how much? Bell? Shelf?

and the claims of larger stereo field... do they mean more phase issues...?

Doug, the elegance of the Merlin VSM/BBAM design was that a Scanspeak 8545 driver has sufficient excursion to be EQ’d into a full-range midrange/bass driver, provided that the EQ fully attenuates frequencies below 30hz. Its admittedly constrained dynamics at high volumes for large rooms is the price that one pays for the coherence of a crossoverless point-source from 30hz to 2Khz.  As digital crossovers and equalizers were mediocre in those days, the analog BBAM was the ticket.

Doing a bit of armchair research is helpful; the speaker specs at 33 Hz
 +/- 2dB, tight specs. So, 28 Hz +/- 3 dB is not inconceivable. 

Then, there shouldn't be any "hole". So, I see the frustration of dumbeat, as it seems there should be enough low end presence. However, this is your classic tiny tower, and you simply are not going to get prodigious bass with smallish drivers in such  cabinet, regardless of the fine quality of a Merlin speaker. If you try to push such a speaker in an attempt to jack up the presence you are now flirting with distortion. Not an easy balancing act. 

It is telling that recommendation was to put a "BAM" unit with the speaker. I found this in an old Stereophile review, "BAM Bass Augmentation Module: Supplies 5.2dB of boost at 35Hz and infrasonic rolloff below 27Hz." 

It seems to me the BAM was a concession of the weakness of this speaker in regards to the bass presence region. Nice design in many respects, but problematic in the region dumbeat has pinpointed. To avoid such things one typically has to move away from skinny, smallish towers toward larger cabinets and bass drivers.

Note also that the ATC has a bass adjustment from -2 to +3 dB; again, such things are necessary when speakers struggle to produce "natural" presence in the mid-bass.  

As usual, size matters in both cabinets and drivers.  

Finally, a word about cables. Studio use of cables has little relevance to domestic systems and cables. The applications are vastly different, and the beneficial nature of working with cables in the home becomes apparent quickly (If one bothers to try).  An exceptional way to mediocre sound is to ignore aftermarket cables, and or stay with "affordable" cables to avoid comparisons and advancement. Having worked with dozens of brands of cables over decades not only are cables responsible for far, far more than 1% of a home system's sound, but the selection of cables can literally make or break the components and speaker's performance.
  YMMV 

The ATC 25ASL PRO has a 7” woofer  And The low mids to liws are very very full. Easy for a 7” woofer, should be easy for a6.5”.  I have no issues with the very low area. It just aounds empty and hollow in the low mids. Its not the size, its the voicing. 

It seems you're expecting a  lot from 6.5" drivers. A Vandersteen Sub-3 with it's complete bass equalization controls might give you what you need.

Translation: cables are the last 1% in the pro audio world. 🤠

Equivalent statement: sound quality is the last 1% in the pro audio world. 😛

it's common for a speaker rated at -3db at 28hz to be down much more 10-15 feet away at normal volume...measurements are often taken at very close range at very low volume...

What are you trying to achieve? Are you after natural or un-natural levels of bass? There is almost no material under 28 hz unless you are listening to organ music?

dumbeat OP
Yes? isn’t the direct connection to the floor, full on, amplifying somewhat the lows?

>>>>But not much more than an inch or two above the floor with cones, or so it would appear.


Would isolation not kill that acoustic amplification?

>>>>Isolation (decoupling) would prevent mechanical feedback, if that is an issue.

Does the speaker have loose specifications?

When you indicate that you want to boost the level of the bass drivers, that suggests you don't consider there to be enough punch, dynamic impact. What makes you think you will get worthwhile macrodynamics from 6.5" drivers? 

Purist Dominus cord on power amp works great, bass sounds right.
But before that - real no BS power amps, then power cords.
Most recordings suck, by the way, maybe "1% cables" is one of the reasons. Another, clean record head, another - use good electronics and microphones, and finally - don’t do lousy job.

+1 jperry

Tone controls and loudness switch.

What about a DBX 120 or similar? It is made for this type of application. Pro sound guys deal with this issue daily  because their job is tunning to different acoustical environments. Maybe post on a pro site and get some suggestions.

Some Tube Rolling today also helped. Old Mullards in the 12ax7 preamp and Old Amperex Britain EL34’s in place of the JJ KT77’s in the Power output section.
More pleasant and less harsh sounding overall. a bit more balanced.

Yes? isn’t the direct connection to the floor, full on, amplifying somewhat the lows? Would isolation not kill that acoustic amplification?

Next stop, speaker isolation. 🚂 Toot, toot!

OK- So I took off the footing altogether, no spikes or any type of feet, just speakers on my wood floor bare and flush.
Already big improvement. The spiking is good for fat sounding speakers, not for lean sounding ones, in my case.

That is your mistake to think that cables are the last 1%.
You will never know until you try ., but i am done trying to convince you
100% no glare with Purist Audio Dominus
100% musicality

With the risk of sounding patronizing(im not- i promise) after 30+ years of making Records at some of the best studios ever i can tell you that :
A. Cables are 1% as long as they are decent quality and not super cheap stuff that really degrades the integrity of the electric signal.
B. The best recordings you listen to through your $5,000 per interconnect were made on a $20 Mogami Mic cable... so....

Of course, I forgot my usual advice: Better room acoustics.

Smoother bass, more controlled mid/treble can greatly improve the tonal balance.

My experience with 2-way systems is that properly used, bass traps can make them sound much larger and deeper.

That is your mistake to think that cables are the last 1%.
You will never know until you try ., but i am done trying to convince you
100% no glare with Purist Audio Dominus 
100% musicality

I have always run my mains full range and augmented the low freq with a sub

I do not think the issue is in the Sub Bass area, but rather in the low mids and bass, from around 200hz to 50hz. Its like a hole.

I would have thought its my room that has standing waves there, but it is not since other speakers easily reproduce this area with authority... sometimes even too much...

Spikes = better imaging and clarity, "tighter" bass, but not
necessarily "more" bass. Ime best to experiment with positioning
BEFORE you install the spikes.

Audiokinesis. You say that on spikes better image and clarity, bit you don't say of full contact with floor, with no footing at all enhances bass. Any experience to share there?
Thanks

Cables are the last 1%, as we say in the studio world. Im way more concerned with the other 99%

As for cables with Merlins, I found they only made a subtle difference, if at all. I tried many expensive ones - Cardas, JPS, Virtual Dynamics, Coincident, just to name a few. I ended up using el-cheapo Anti-Cables and putting my money elsewhere in my system. Once I got my system sorted out, I did buy Audience AU24e cables and felt they were just right for my room and associated gear. I "thought" they had a little less glare and were more natural, but it did nothing for bass. Try playing around with placement first.

I owned Merlins for several years. Bobby recommended setting the speakers 6 feet apart and then listen and widen them if needed. I ended up at 6.5 feet wide. I sat 7 feet, 3 inches from the tweeters. The speakers were 3.5 feet from the wall behind the speakers, and about 3 feet from the side walls. With this placement, I felt the sound was quite good, very coherent, with no problems with bass or midrange. This was in a small-ish room, 14 x 13.

I tried the speakers in my 20 x 18 living room that opens up into a similar sized dining room. If you can picture it, there are only 3 walls in my living room. The VSM’s did not sound good in this room, hard as I tried. The sound was quite thin.

@Dumbeat
Try one or more from the cable co or by used . You will be shocked .
I have sold my Dominus power cord and the XLR interconnects , but only because i needed the money . I will own them again .
To me they are my favorite cables that have ever tried .or owned .
They are that good IMO
They have awesome Bass and very good clarity and PRAT

Spikes = better imaging and clarity, "tighter" bass, but not necessarily "more" bass.  Ime best to experiment with positioning BEFORE you install the spikes. 

I have always run my mains full range and augmented the low freq with a sub.   I know a lot of people hate subs but if you set the crossover low you will avoid the boomy sound subs get a bad rap for .

I use a Velodyne SMS 1 as my lpw pass filter and experimented with the low pass crossover and slope .  The slope is very helpful in tuning the sub to blend seamlessly with the mains.  

A lot of new subs auto eq also which also helps eliminate the boom caused by the room mode...  

the speakers in case are VSM's but the question is general about Acoustics and coupling.

Why would a cable EQ So much and how? Are there resistors? an eq network in there... The most a cable can do is degrade not enhance...

@dumbmeat
Well , obviously you have never tried Purist Audio Dominus.
Do not be so sure about your assumptions. 

Why don’t you mention these mystery speakers?

I know you mentioned you didn't want to try equalization, but........if all else fails, maybe trying a Schitt Audio Loki equalizer might help. I have read it is transparent to the source whether it is in or out of the circuit. I think the frequencies it handles are 20hz, 400hz, 4k, and 8k. Fairly cheap at $150. IMO.

Thanks!

Appreciate all the Acoustic ideas and concepts. Thats where im trying to get here.

Not buying more cables. No cable is going to give you bass. maybe .5 of a db at some frequency is all it might do... even that would be miracle.

Coupling and placement, which is for free (sorry Audiophiles that it don’t cost thousands to move a speaker... how boring ;-)

So spikes or Feet or Flat speaker on the floor with nothing ?

Push the speakers closer to the wall. Also, try moving your seating closer/further away from the rear wall.

Purist Audio Dominus cables

28 Hz from single 6.5 " woofer ? What speakers do you have ? 
But if they are that good - better source and amp and cables and power cords, yeah. Which ones ? I have no idea.
Putting them against the wall or in corners would probably be the wrong move unless they were designed to be placed there. But at least that's easy to try.

28Hz at sufficiently high SPL from a single 6.5" woofer per speaker? Good luck! No spike, footer, or any other accessory is going to increase the speaker's LF output. To do that, you need to move more air. Spikes and footers can't, don't, and won't do that. A pair (at least) of subs are required.

Seriously: sit in the floor and listen to music you
like and know well.  Change positions: closer, farther from speakers.

Part two: If you are not happy because "too much bass,"
experiment by raising your seating position six inches at a time
until you have the sound "right."

You can use Lyngdorf 2170 as Dac and Room correction.

It’s dac is pretty good which will be better than any Dac under 4K$.

If you want to use turntable, you shall have optional analogue input to connect from phono amplifier.

I got good result using line out of Lyngdorf to Rogue Audio Magnum II to drive my Lansche 4.1 speakers.