What is the most dramatic way of increasing a speaker's Bass and Low mid?

You can see what the problems are with a computer, USB Mic, and Room EQ Wizard. I think your suspicions may be correct and you have room nodes. You’ll need a few subs and can use Multi Sub Optimizer to crank out some new crossovers that will correct the suckout. A Mini DSP can be your active crossover to add the filters. Much less effective is to move the subs around the room and try that way but filters add delay, gain, up to 12 biquads. I have added SVS isolation footers on all the subs so that their vibrations don’t excite the room. They work really well. You’ll be really surprised what a difference it will make. 

BTW, if doing testing be wary of relying on the mic built into your phone, as they are focused on picking up midrange and won't pick up low frequency with any accuracy. 

Any simple test tone cd and a decent mic will have you on your way to measure the impact of some of the changes suggested(e.g. moving towards the boundary). Cheers,
Spencer

Have you considered doing tests using room eq wizard first

The simplest way for bass boost is use your room boundaries.  Using the example of a flat response bookshelf on stand in the middle of a room away from all boundaries, move that stand mounted speaker fully against one wall- this adds +3dB in low end boost.  Then step 2 is move fully into the corner  (2 boundaries) = +6dB bass boost.  Then step 3 is of course 3 boundaries, or the corner on the floor or the ceiling= +9dB in bass boost.  Speaker will sound awful but that is the impact of a corner on a speaker.  

If you do not fully push the speaker against a boundaries, there is still increasing bass response as you get closer and closer.  A good flat speaker will sound very tubby in a corner "area" compared to the middle of the room far away from boundaries. 

Quite often boundaries are the biggest reason why a speaker does not sound good in space. Being aware of the impact boundaries cause on speakers can be helpful.  

(And we haven't even mentioned reflections from boundaries!)    

Brad
Lone Mountain Audio (consumer)
TransAudio Group Inc (pro)
Pro and Consumer Audio Importers

Thanks! BTW loving the sound now after upgrading Amps, Preamp, and cables!

Most dramatic way is replace speaker with one that has more frequincy extention while Garry Moore The Loner plays on a distant radio.

Second REW.  You can pick up a USB phantom mic for about $50 - $80, Dayton Audio comes to mind.  I don’t know if REW integrates with an app, now, but Dayton does make app capable measurement mics.  

My experience with REW is what led me down a long path to maximize my system.  Inclusive of what’s already been shared, getting your speakers positioned to where they sound the best to you is critical, prior to measuring.  Chasing placement to minimize spikes/curves/room anamolies will make you bonkers.  I’ve done it and it’s futile.  Once you’ve set them, then run REW.  What it will show you is what needs to be tamed.  Mids/lows, again, boosting them may not be what’s needed, possibly there’s too much low end and taming it will allow the midrange to punch thru.  

Once I had my measurements, I critically listened to all my favorites for a week or so.  Then sent my measurements off to an acoustic treatment company to build me a set-up, specific to my room and the measurements generated.  I used GLK Acoustics, but there are plenty out there to choose from.  It was night and day once I had them installed.  I had read numerous posts on here before, regarding room treatment and just didn’t really pay it much attention.  Now, it’s one the lowest cost applications I’ve used in my system.  I should note, I didn’t read thru the entire thread, so it may have been covered, that your room (aka significant other) is not open to panels being hung; which is completely understandable.

Post treatment I listened for another month, it did sound exponentially better with the treatment, but I still felt I could squeeze more out of it.  Enter DEQX.  It does EQ, but more from the perspective of minimizing frequencies that shouldn’t be there, due to the speaker interactions with the room.  And that’s the big difference, addressing the room and then addressing the characteristics of the speakers, in relationship to the room.  

I’ve used the McIntosh MEN-220, which is based on the Lyngdorf/Room Perfect algorithms/software.  It did make a difference, huge difference.  But, it had some funky glitches with REL subs and the amp I was using at the time.  Additionally, it’s very pedestrian; meaning there’s not too much user configuration involved.  If that’s what you’re after, it’s wise to go with a unit that is user friendly.  DEQX is not, to be frank.  It takes some heavy lifting to get it configured; which I was successful in getting it to about 95%, but ended up hiring a DEQXpert to set-it up.  Took about an hour and cost $400.  The DEQX combines the room and speaker measurement and makes corrections based off of that, which gets very complicated and confusing if you haven’t been thru it.  

Net-net, a room correction unit will bring focus and clarity to your music.  I’m not a big believer in EQ’ing, but am a staunch supporter of utilizing it in conjunction with phase adjustments to improve existing rooms and speakers.  

Moving your speakers closer to the corners will load the low frequencies and increase their volume. Too much and it will muddy vocals and destroy the stereo image. For a 36" tall speaker in a 12' X18' room with 8' ceilings, start with theses numbers to increase the bass: 14" from wall to speaker face, 22" from Woofer center to side wall. The next position, pull the speaker out to 22" and or pull it in to 27" from the side wall, or both. Each will reduce the bass a bit. These numbers aren't 'woo', they are basic room acoustics - physics. Pushing the speakers to the walls and corners increases the room 'loading' of the woofer, the ratios minimize standing wave (eigentone) reinforcement. You can also download a spectrum analyzer from Google Play like 'Spectroid' and run pink noise through your system to get a rough idea of the frequency response for a given mike location. But, by all means, listen. The tools and equations are there to inform your decision, not make it.

I'm still in the flip-phone era, but yes, this is a GREAT way to add measurements to ears.  (Google says there's one for the iPhone, too)

Srsly, this is cheap/free (the PC-based REW is free, dunno about the phone apps) and should be what you start with.

Moving your speakers closer to the corners will load the low frequencies and increase their volume.  Too much and it will muddy vocals and destroy the stereo image.  For a 36" tall speaker in a 12' X18' room with 8' ceilings, start with theses numbers to increase the bass: 14" from wall to speaker face, 22" from Woofer center to side wall. The next position, pull the speaker out to 22" and or pull it in to 27" from the side wall, or both. Each will reduce the bass a bit.  These numbers aren't 'woo', they are basic room acoustics - physics. Pushing the speakers to the walls and corners increases the room 'loading' of the woofer, the ratios minimize standing wave (eigentone) reinforcement. You can also download a spectrum analyzer from Google Play like 'Spectroid' and run pink noise through your system to get a rough idea of the frequency response for a given mike location.  But, by all means, listen.  The tools and equations are there to inform your decision, not make it.

I'm going to have room treatments done, that will most certainly require professional measuring equipment, and someone who knows how to use it.

I am  electronics engineer with big experience   to speakers building
and have currently selling speakers.   i say--  you have to use  the both--
you ears  because the ears is very precise and measuring tools.
measuring microphone also very important, see all stereophile  
revue , they make measuring test for all famous brand,  i dont think
you can recommend John dont do it   

I'm an electronics technician who is very accustomed to working with all kinds of measuring tools, but the only thing that can measure "high end" audio is a pair of keen ears.

The people who don't have them wouldn't understand that fact.

@Fraterperdurabo   you right for 100%  The majority interesting ideas
is placebo effect. Get measuring tools  is very helpful. 

There are tons of interesting ideas on this thread.

But I'm going to reiterate: you can't fix what you can't measure.

Get a USB measurement mic from Parts Express.  Use it, and post a FR plot.

Let's see exactly what we're dealing with.  Then you'll also see what your improvements do.  It's possible that relatively minor adjustments in speaker placement could yield the improvements you're looking for.

Ears are great and all, but the placebo effect is all too real - I worked in Pharma QA, and it is frankly terrifying.  It is only now, more than 20 years later, that studies suggest Prozac MIGHT work better than a placebo, for example.  The analogy to various audio tweaks is left as an exercise..

orpheus,  sorry ,crossover is yours, enjoy , but i dont  understand, is not clear what type capacitor you  install teflon or polypropylene? you first recommendation
that ------ Without a doubt, the very best way to get high quality bass from your speakers is to replace the electrolytic capacitors in the crossover of your woofer driver with teflon caps.----- Sorry Greg Bache

bache, polypropylene capacitors are better than teflon capacitors; no one let me do anything, I changed the capacitors because I wanted the best sound; they're my speakers, my crossover.

Here are the ratings in capacitors, and teflon comes in down the list from mine;


        https://www.gearslutz.com/board/geekslutz-forum/434325-what-best-musical-sounding-capacitors-use-rec...


 

My friend tell---- if so , why he install electrolytic capacitors  in crossovers and
let you change capacitors for teflon. i dont want to explain my degree, i  also design and selling  speakers. i just told you about you  wrong post----only 
very expensive  loudspeakers using teflon capacitors +

No my friend, you are wrong; this crossover was designed by a crossover engineer who was working for a company that sold speakers. It is a 3-way 4th order crossover, T-type.
92 DB efficient.

What I'm listening to has solid firm bass.


These are the capacitors that are in the bass leg of my crossover.


      https://www.parts-express.com/solen-100uf-400v-poylpropylene-capacitor--027-616

I think you wrong , woofer crossover 1st order use just the coil, no any capacitor, Crossover 2nd order, use capacitors , but 99.99% using teflon
capacitors. the teflons capacitors get different grade and low grade cost
50-100 mkf cost $5-10 , electrolitic cost around $1.  I did not  see electrolits
in mass bestbuy speakers. 

No I didn't check the schematic, but I know only the most expensive speakers use teflon capacitors. I don't even know if your speakers are among the most expensive speakers; maybe they are.

My speakers were custom built by me. A speaker design engineer designed the crossover, and I took it from there with some help from a place that sold raw drivers. In order not to go over budget, we used electrolytic capacitors; this gave us a general idea of what the speaker would sound like.

After listening for awhile, I decided they were worth much better and more expensive capacitors, such as Jantzen Silver Series Z Caps. The largest capacitor running my 12 inch woofer is a "Solen", 100uf, 400V.

     
          https://solen.ca/product-category/capacitors/ capacitor



These capacitors on the woofer section of the crossover will eliminate "tubbines"; you will have sharp bass lines.

@orpheus10 I just curios How you know  this particular speakers
using electrolytic capacitors ? did you see schematic  ?

Without a doubt, the very best way to get high quality bass from your speakers is to replace the electrolytic capacitors in the crossover of your woofer driver with teflon caps.


  https://solen.ca/product-category/capacitors/


You simply replace them using the same value and voltage rating (higher voltage is OK, but not lower). Since you won't have enough room in your speaker cabinet, that will be a problem you'll have to solve.

Being an audiophile ain't easy.

Get four subs and use Room EQ Wizard (free) but extremely powerful, put those measurements into Multi-Sub Optimizer (free) amazing you can see the graph improving as the program creates filters, which crunches the numbers and builds the filters I put into a Mini DSP. You can do up to 12 couplex biquad filters. . . It’s amazing the impact, accuracy, and power that the subs have when they work together. 

+1, about Loki performance???

How did the Loki do for you?

dumbeat@
 You can try use different cable ,  move you speakers back ,  but you 
never get not only dramatic changes , may be very very small changes.
you can listen my advise or not , but as speaker designer i suggest you 
first-most easy way , use  equalizer to boost 100-400 Hz, second more
kosher way, use you sub and change crossover in you loudspeakers
 apply baffle step crossover and high pass crossover for you 6.5 woofer.
http://diyaudioprojects.com/Technical/Baffle-Step-Correction-Circuit-Calculator/    and third , most efficiency dramatic way--- get 3 way good
Loudspeakers with 500 -700 Crossover frequency between woofer and midrange  

Dear @dumbeat: There is no perfect speakers or audio systems, nothing is in audio.

Maybe speakers is the more critical and delicated ling in audio system chain because it is not only from where the sound comes on but because its direct relationship with all the links in the overall audio system chain including room and each one of us music/sound priorities.

In those order of premises what for you is rigth maybe for me or other gentleman it's not.

I don't like two-way speakers because to many " compromises " but for other people are the Nirvana.

Yes, you have to make your home-work about and I hope with the success you are asking for.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.

@rauliruegas 
there is something about them that i really love very much. I will play around with my other components and room a bit more before changing them.

Dear @dumbeat: "  And thats a good thing and a bad thing. "    "  Half my library does not translate well at this time. "

I know and listened your Merlin speakers.

First time I heard the Dynaudio Esotar twetters was many years ago ( today Esotar 2 but from some years now Dynaudio is not any more a driver suplier for any one but its speakers. ) through a Sonus Faber monitor that till today was the deepest dimension of any two way speakers I never seen ( can't remember the model. ) and the hf range was to brigth/hars. This kind of characteristic I never listened in the own Dynaudio speakers designs maybe because they know exactly how to handle it. Esotar 2 is a little better but still brigth.

There is no reason for you can continue with that kind of quality level performance and if I was you what I will do is to change the Merlin's for something you already know very well ATC ones.

Merlin has that trouble no matter what. You need to change its design to achieve top level and maybe you can't get it.

ATC is one option about.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.

Thanks

The more i listen the more i realize that there is a specific volume and sweet spot of sitting where they sound just unbelievable, above that volume they begin to sound harsh to my ears. Same for leaving the sweet spot.

Also they just want to play great full sounding recordings, they make any recording that is not stellar seem naked and harsh... Listening to the last Bootsy Collins this past hour. WOW, sounds amazing! earlier Steely Dan sounded terrible and thin (go figure).. i guess you need music that respects bass on these...;)

Also classical sounds really good on these. Pop and rock for the most part sounds harsh.
What im thinking is that these speakers are probably so pure that all the added high end that is associated with pop/rock studio production is very unnatural and unrealistic(I know because i mix for a living...) just don't translate well on the Merlins, while Classical and Jazz and Funk which is really amazing players recorded really well and generating a very balanced frequency range translate great.

This is where these speakers shine. They are not for originally thin recordings, they just don’t "help" them as other speakers do. And thats a good thing and a bad thing...

Point is- i come from music, not form love of sound reinforcement necessarily, so i cant choose music for my speakers, i must choose speakers for my music. Its not like im going to listen to music that my speakers like. That would be quite sick. Half my library does not translate well at this time... And i plan on listening to my library.,

So we’ll see, because im in love with them on music that sounds good on them.
Might have to insert a good EQ probably and adjust by record... just like i do when i mix at the studio...

I've been all over the VSMs: LPS for BBAM, replacement of stock Hovland mylar caps in crossover with ClarityCap CMR, replacement of stock Caddock resistors with TX2575s and Dueland graphite resistors, bucking magnet on the 8545, silver wire inside, buffalo felt around the tweeter domes, Stillpoint footers, steel microbearing instead of sand in the cabinets.  You likely won't get to any of this, but each step is a meaningful refinement.   

Well they do according to Steteophile measurements but i have no issue with that area as i have a sub. My issue is low mids and higher bass. The “body”, not the “Floor”...

dumbeat@
you say that you speakers with 6.5" driver go down to 28Hz.
i just curious how you know his?  Did you take measurement ?
for my experiences only big boxes with drivers 12-15" can achieve
this down point with -3db.   

Hey Raul, tone is much much better. Overall warmth that i was after is much closer to the mark. At the same time the Merlins have their character which is still on the bright side. Still lacking bit if "Body" for lack of a better word.
At this time im running from DAC with variable gain directly to the Joule amps.
I should get the Joule preamp this weekend. Hopefully this takes me a step closer.

Im open to more ideas. Don't hold back...Its a journey...;)

Hey Raul, tone is much much better. Overall warmth that i was after is much closer to the mark. At the same time the Merlins have their character which is still on the bright side. Still lacking bit if "Body" for lack of a better word.
At this time im running from DAC with variable gain directly to the Joule amps.
I should get the Joule preamp this weekend. Hopefully this takes me a step closer.

Im open to more ideas. Don't hold back...Its a journey...;)

Dear @dumbeat: So, now you are ok with the bass/low mid you were asking for.

Btw, the comparison you did it between the ATC speakers vs the Merlin is not at all a good reference because the Merlin is in reality a two way speaker where the ATC is a 3-way and more important than that is that the ATC are active speakers with dedicated amps for each driver, amps that meets the specific drivers needs. Big difference vs Merlin's.

There are other alternatives to achieve even better quality performance levels from your Merlin's other than the change you made it with the amp but if rigth now problem was fixed the is useless to post about.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.

I highly doubt you're really going to make changes to the speaker themselves and get much of an impact.... improving the room and the surrounding equipment would be where I would start.

For example, what amp are you using? With my previous speakers, my Bel Canto REF500M sounded amazing and when switching speakers, although they never sounded bad, the change to Pass XA60.5 added lots of "flesh" and dimensionality. The lack of bass and mid bass might very well be a mismatch between amp and speakers.

And you're argument for cables... I understand, I work with engineers every single day, but fact is that there are things in life that are not measurable yet perceived as improvements. I think cables and digital transports both fall within this category.

How about a lower speaker stand, and then tilting the speakers back?  Lowering a speaker 3-4 inches can reinforce the bass, and also change drastically the frequency of the null you get from floor bounce.  You'll need to tilt them back though, to maintain proper driver alignment from your listening position.  

@rauliruegas:
The Joule amps totally changed the tonal balance and clarity in all freqs. So for now i am getting used to that. Its not to say the Merlins are not seemingly bright speakers, I say seemingly because i think it is a perception built on past experience, but they do not hurt me now as they may have before. Its a journey. I also realize that hearing so clearly can hurt you at first, just like what happens to your eyes when the light is up after a long time in darkness... let the eyes get used to all the detail...;)

Hi dumbeat,
Stage 3 Concepts. I was lucky and was able to get a free audition from a buddy who had already purchased it. When I knew I was ready to make that commitment, I bought Used for about 50% off MRSP.

From what I read you already have great components. Just need to maximize their operating potential.

I began with one Stage 3 Concepts Kraken from the wall outlet to a Passive Power Strip, back then it was Oyaide R-1.  From that power strip I ran Silver Oval 2 power cables from Analysis Plus to my components.

When I was able to find another Stage 3 Cable, in this case Minotaurs - a step down from Kraken,  I replaced the Analysis Plus Silver Oval 2s with them. I started from the source/ CD player, then the Pre amp, and finally the amps. 

It took several years to source these out and I am still trying to get into a pair of Stage 3 PC for my Subs. I am currently using the last two Analysis Plus Silver Oval 2 on those. Know that with each Upgrade there were remarkable differences.  It takes some patience for sure, but well worth it.

The way I look at it is the investment I have made over the years in Power Delivery has been able to maximize the performance of my components and speakers. This substantial investment has come in at a fraction of the price of what some of my rich friends have spent on full blown out 500K - 800K systems. In some cases twice over.

Naturally I have made comparisons, and I will say that Musically,  my system is just as good if not slightly better than the 500K systems.That assessment is mainly due to personal preferences and choices. When it gets up to the 800K systems - admittedly they are better, but certainly not  90% more $$$ better. Where all these systems really excel  is their commitment to ergonomic design / packaging - Really Sexy looking gear that blows away my stuff. I would give my system  a 6 out of 10 for looks and its probably a bit lower as no parent ever really wants to admit that they have an ugly kid - no matter how talented.

I hope this helps you out
Enjoy the ride, Its not a race..

Dear @dumbeat: your system specific " trouble " that you want to fix was already fixed through the Joule amp change?

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.

GGC, so what was that power cable that woke up your system?

Hi Dumbeat,

I know that it seems ridiculous, but it is absolutely true.
Power Power and more Power is the the way to clean articulate sound.

I was a skeptic for many years. Only because, I am not wealthy /rich and I did not want to spend more money on the least sexy, unseen items in my system. 

I came to a point where I felt that I had to change my speakers because I was not getting enough of - everything out of them. I chalked it up to  needing new speakers.

Lucky for me I do happen to have a few rich friends with disposable incomes who have become audiophiles over the years. One of them suggested that before I invest in new speakers that I try out one of his Power Cables. They have been very generous in letting me audition some of their equipment / cables in my own system so that I could make my own determination.

As much as I didn't want it to be true. The hard truth was that there was absolutely no comparison. I could tell in the first 6 seconds.  It was like I had added an entire new component or amp, rather than some Power Chord.

By introducing that Power Chord I had a completely new system. I realized that all those years my system was only operating at 50% at best. With the Power Chord it was a true 100%.

My speakers had real grip - the drivers working like pistons pushing air, the music had texture, detailing of cymbals, stops, broken guitar strings, the spit that formulates in ones mouth before Sound emanates from the depth of ones throatn - all the stuff that I had been missing!!!

Ultimately what I have come to understand is that in a home system for someone who is fanatical about sound quality - 25-35% investment from the total budget is typical for power delivery and cabling .

What I suspect is that you're  1%  assessment is made on the total investment on a Professional Facility. Equipment, Room Treatments, Lease Holds - average electric bills run from 2K  into the tens of thousands depending on the size.   

A Professional Facility also has an Unseen Foundation which would contain several Substations, Linear Filtration Breakers with Dedicated Lines to Specialized Outlets and then Professional Grade Power Strips.  Taking in all of that cost into account the actual Power Chord / Cables may end up being 1% of the total cost. 

The bottom line is that only you will know. You gotta make the time to check it out for yourself. Do you know what power delivery is used at the professional facilities you have been in? What are the cable used in the facilities etc.

I still have the same speakers, same amps. Added a Sub and a Super Tweeter. Admittedly its taken some time and investment but everything has been purchased off the used market. The juice was definitely worth the squeeze. 

The Cable Co. has a great audition policy you may want to check out ask for Jason. Least expensive way to check out some cables without purchase - unless you have rich audiophile friends....
www.thecableco.com

Stage 3 Concepts - The Kraken is the 6 second cable I referred to.
www.stage3concepts.com

Analysis Plus - Silver Oval 2 I also use
www.analysis-plus.com

HB Cable Design - fantastic Power Distributor 
http://www.hb-cable-design.com

Thales - Great Interconnect and Speaker Cables
www.tonarm.ch

Henry Rollins - has something to say...
www.stereophile.com/writer/26884

I

know you mentioned you didn't want to try equalization, but........if all else fails, maybe trying a Schitt Audio Loki equalizer might help. I have read it is transparent to the source whether it is in or out of the circuit. I think the frequencies it handles are 20hz, 400hz, 4k, and 8k. Fairly cheap at $150. IMO

II purchased one of these to boost the low end when listening at low volume levels at night. Basically, using it as a loudness switch. I ended up keeping it on most the time due to the dramatic bass increase. Since, I've added a sub and now only use it at very low volumes (my preamp has a tape loop, so its easy to turn the eq on an off)

Hi , I’ve had similar issues, but with a different type speaker . I am not able to buy a $4k item for tone , since I currently exist in a Mid-Fi price point . 3 kids with cars and college just ended , so maybe soon . So I purchased the Schiit Loki and have had good results . I’m currently running Zu’s on extremely thick carpet , but get decent Bass . So I tried different spikes and spent $400 on some really nice Timber Nation footers . Unfortunately they killed my sound ( I was really surprised ). I emailed Zu and Sean gave me some suggestions to try . In the end I removed the footers . But contact your speaker builder as they know the best tweaks for their products . I have tube amps and pre , so I was able to adjust my bass by running KT120’s over smaller power tubes . But it’s always give and take . For little or no money you could try digital correction programs on a laptop streaming Tidal . Amarro for example when used on a Mac , will do MQA unfolding and frequency curves prior to your DAC . You can trial it or buy for $100. So on the cheap , the Loki , footers, digital software. Hope this helps, Mike . 

dumbeat

My experience with 2 way speakers ( rear ported )  showed me that 
moving the speakers closer to the walls create bass bloat ,
so stay at least 2 feet from the front wall .
Spikes are good as others  have suggested , but the thing that
made the bass stand out the most was corner room treatment ,
for my room it was the corners behind the speakers that cleaned up ,
cleared up and tightened up bass response .
Cables do make a difference , try to find 10 gauge or larger .

Good Luck
Rob

Hello,
          Your request is not possible with the speaker you have, period. I have PMC speakers which are transmission line design and have great bass at lower levels but to get an increase at 28hz is unrealistic. I use a PMC twenty5.sub for foundation level bass below 60 hz. It blends in perfectly. Don't waist your good money on tweaks. 
Happy listening.