@crlambert, turn off the news channel, you'll be a much happier man.
What happened to all the highend stereo shops
What happened to high end stereo shops I mean real high-end stereo shops. I am 78, my father bought me my first stereo when I was 12, I have been hooked ever since. I remember the days when you can go to a nice audio store and not just audition what they had in the store but if you saw a couple of tuners, preamps or some cables that you liked, you could give them a blank check and take the equipment home to audition on your system. Bring one or both back Pay for what you want to keep or get your check back. I don’t understand how someone can buy an expensive piece of audio equipment and not audition it in their system first. Many places today, you buy it and your stuck with it. OH yes you can sell it on Audiogon or eBay. Reviewers are nice and give good reviews but the problem I have is the equipment they are auditioning is on their system in their treated music room which is going to be different than what you have.
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It often isn’t just the young who don’t have a stereo system prominently and proudly displayed in the living room any more. People in their 40s and beyond are content to have a tiny Bose radio or Bluetooth type speaker in a large room for their main listening. I know people in their 60s who have downsized from a decent stereo system to this. It’s like they have given up on having a good sounding system.
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I am not a bigot. I am not prejudiced against the poor. I am the poor. I am disabled and retired. I am a veteran. I have to live on a fixed income. I am only stating what is right and what is wrong ! I'm only stating what is God's law ! And yet some on here are defending that disparaged group! That group is rebellious against God! And yes, I am concerned about it ! I fear no one. I fear for our youth whom are misled and groomed for this culture. Yes perhaps it has nothing to do with Hi-Fi. I'm just pointing out the obvious with our younger generation ! On a brighter note, unfortunately I had to sell a really awesome boxed set of Bill Evans Trio CDs awhile back. If I have offended someone, then maybe they need to step back and rethink their position? What's worse, is those here that agree with my position, will not speak up for fear of ridicule and retribution! That's what we call the silent MAJORITY! |
I haven’t either but as I haven’t been involved in audio very long (+/- 15 years) I’ve attributed my lack of understanding in this regard to lack of experience/expertise. I find it encouraging to read your post even though it describes a frustrating scenario.
What other conclusion can be drawn except that there must be enough people who are sufficiently wealthy to support such a business model? I'd be interested in knowing.
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You seem like a sincere person but this isn't the place to discuss interpretations of religion. You seem like a decent guy, just trying to live your life...consider this: relieve some of the burdens you believe have been placed upon you because I don't believe its your calling to save the audiophile community from some imagined, threatening horde. |
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High end stereo shops are dinosaurs because: — Brick and mortar shops have other high end expenses, pardon the pun — young people don't care about audio nor music anymore, they want convenience and wallpaper |
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I believe the offensive (and subsequently removed) post was penned by @crlambert and NOT by @grislybutter
@grislybutter was responding to the post
To your original post, I believe alot of audio folks miss the almost clubhouse kindof feel so many great audio stores once evoked. The kind where you could hang out and not feel pressure to buy.
I do think people need to recognize that people consume and purchase music and audio gear differently today. I see the random posting, predicting the impending doom of high end audio. 2021 was the best year in the history of high end audio, eclipsed only by 2022. There are more high end companies today making better gear than ever before. Innovation is happening at warp speed which is why it may be hard to observe by those merely watching their own particular brick and mortar dealer. Businesses come and businesses go, nothing remains the same....thank goodness. |
It would seem that the moderators and administration on this forum, have taken it upon themselves to censor our comments? No one has the authority or the power to infringe upon someone else's Freedom of Speech ! That is a direct infringement upon my 1st Amendment Rights ! You can delete all of my statements that you want, but that doesn't erase the evidence ! Once something is on the Internet, it's there forever and can be pulled up at a later date ! I didn't get foul. I didn't lie. I merely stated the TRUTH and the facts are out there to back them up ! I merely defended God and my religion. I was defending what is moral, what is just, and what is proper ! Apparently the moderators of the forum, don't agree with what is just and moral? Apparently they have no problem defending things that are immoral and rebellious to God and Christianity. That's a shame, because there is so much information to be gleaned here. It would appear, that I have actually learned a lot more than I was looking for...
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1) Its a private audio forum. 2) The first ammendment only protects you from governmental censorship. A private enterprise, person or entity may tune you out and censor your words at will. 3) Just because someone doesn’t give a hoot what you think about religion on an audio forum doesn’t make them any less spiritual than you think you are. 4) You are coming off as a zealot. No one wants to listen to a zealot. 5) Stop whining. Discuss audio, share your audio thoughts or your thoughts about the topic of this thread. That would be cool. 6) I believe in God, I believe she is all knowing, she enjoys tube gear, she hates solid state gear and she also believes that cables make a significant contribution to sound quality…not that anyone on an audio forum should be subjected to my beliefs…or your beliefs. |
I've not had great experiences going into high end shops in the past few years: - When I was upping my game I wanted to hear the upper line of Martin logan speakers, largely bc I've love them since I was a kid but also because those models 15a 13a 11a were designed to self correct in an asymmetrical room such as ours. And I wanted to hear a variety of top grade amps. The first place in nyc basically told me i was an idiot if i bought anything other than B&W driven by Mcintosh. Left without listening to them. They had the ML but didn't want to play them for me. - The other NYC place was pretty great, I'll give them (always liked d and respected them) that but didn't have the gear i thought we wanted. We did like the guys but didn't like the top B&Ws at all. Rockports sounded good but still wanted to hear those MLs. - Went to a place upstate on the way to our country place and at first one guy seemed pretty cool and I bought a piece of two but then they insulted me and my wife as we were leaving without realizing we could totally hear them behind the fake wall. I don't think they raise everyone can hear their snide/condescending comments, but they blew a pretty good sale since i liked some of their gear and it was in the running for the pricier gear we bought. - And lyric shut down before i could get back there, seriously, i nearly cried. Maybe i did. Loved them since i was a teenager. - started looking for other showrooms and gave up, just started picking up on good deals I found on gear I knew I Cid make my money back on:
Pass 350.8, vac sig II, holo may kte, aurendar n200, rel 812's, and my favorite: martin Logan CLX Art speakers. Ppl weep when they hear their favorite songs on them. But man, I do wish there was a great store that I could've bonded with someone over the cultivating of this remarkable system. |
#1 You need to go read your Bible ! God created Adam in his own image. Wo-man came later from one of man's ribs ! Woman was created to be subservient and to aid or assist man. Who are you worshipping? Ashtar ? Lilith ? #2 Go read Psalms 82:1 Obviously you've chosen the wrong god, with a little g ! #3 You need to go read your 1st Amendment Rights too, you got it all wrong ! #4 My censorship incident with this website will not be forgotten nor taken lightly when the time comes,,, |
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Yawn…ok then, did you get kicked out of another forum on the internet and somehow found Audiogon? Are you just killing time here until you are sentenced for your role on Jan 6? When you were reading the first ammendment, did your lips get tired?
When the time comes? Just remember, 100% of those who have predicted the end of the world have been incorrect.
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This is a great topic. I’m 48 and I think I missed the era of borrowing new equipment. However, I have a friend who is a sort of concierge for used audio equipment. I’ve been able to demo products and learn a great deal about audio. It has helped me immensely in finding a system - both new and used - that fits my many constraints. |
I was in college in the 1970s. I was using photography for income shooting sports for the local newspaper so that I could eat. We had a few camera shops in town but I found that I could mail order gear at a 30% discount at the time. As I developed a rapport with these shop owners- buying film, paper and chemicals from them I could sometimes get a good discount on gear from them- but not always. My best over the counter purchase was an electronic flash with a one year replacement warranty. It was not professional grade- ie not for everyday use. I would wear the flash out in about 6 months. The shop owner replaced it for me over the counter, no problem for about two years. I miss those relationships. A few years later I walked into a camera store and offered the owner cash at a discounted price for a lens. He kicked me out of his store. Gotta take the bad with the good. I miss all the stereo shops and camera shops but we all got what we deserved. We chose discounts over personalized service. My biggest frustration is it takes me an extra 20 minutes to search through the big box store looking for a schedule 40 elbow when back in the day all I had to do was walk into the hardware store, show the proprietor what I needed and he would get it for me. Plus he would offer helpful advice on how to best complete my little project. Looking back, all that helpful advice was priceless. |
In Bloomington MN we have a high end audio store. I auditioned in a private room for an hour, treated like a king. He asked what system I had, about the room and speakers, my expectations for sound. About what I liked to hear, type of music. There sat 50k a pair speakers. I asked for something else more like my rather bright speakers. He connected paradyme $4500 / pair. I took home an integrated and on my system it sounded great. Nothing but a wonderful experience and top notch customer service. |
I attended Axpona 2023 in April, and the Renaissance Schaumburg Hotel & Convention Center where Axpona was being held had so many people at the show that the hotel had to constantly run a fleet of shuttle buses between the Convention Center and several outlying parking lots because their main parking area was overflowing. Although there were plenty of middle-aged and older people there, I also saw quite a few younger people. Once people who’ve grown up accustomed to hearing their music over smartphones and BlueTooth earbuds get a chance to hear what really good sound is like, they may find themselves, like anyone who’s blessed with good hearing, WANTING to explore and learn more about this new-to-them world of quality audio. Furthermore, with a little research anyone can now put together a decent audio setup and stay within their budget, even if today’s reality with brick-and-mortar audio dealers requires that most of us must now shop for our gear, unseen and unheard, over the Internet. There are trustable reviewers out there covering most if not all of today’s better-known brands such as Denafrips, Schiit Audio, Holo Audio, Gustard, plus numerous other brands in every category from streamers and DACs to amplifiers and headphones/speakers, not to mention all their interconnects. There is enough decent audio gear to satisfy nearly everyone’s income bracket. I think it was no accident that there were so many people in every age group attending this year’s Axpona event. Quality audio seems to me to be alive and well. |
It's a rough time for all brick and mortar retail. Small boutique shops that specialize/focus on the best stuff available in any area of interest have all but disappeared. Fine butcher shops, delis, bakeries, lumber yards, woodworking shops, electronic supplies...you can't even buy a nice suit in most towns these days. I think it has much to do with the reduced size and relative lack of wealth of the middle class compared to the 70's and 80's...when many of us got our audio start. It was easier to splurge once in awhile. You could pay for your car in 24 to 36mos, your phone bill was $20, and student debt was minimal. (Tuition at the best public universities was $500/semester!) The wealthy are much better off today and many more can afford a $100k system. I'd guess the total dollars being spent on high end may be a record...but the total units have declined. It takes fewer dealers to sell fewer units. The wealthy always had the finest things delivered or by appointment. Twas the the splurges of the middle class that paid the store rent. That said, I can sit in my chair and watch Miles Davis play full concerts from just about every year he performed on YouTube. Or listen to every recording he ever made. On demand. If it's about the music, there's never been a better time to be a fan. And IPods sound betta than the average all in one record changer in 1972. |
The marketing of products is horrible. No good explanation of what the products do and why. Most of the salesman, and there are exceptions, don’t understand the products they are selling. If you’re able to read product descriptions and understand all they’re saying, you are a rare breed indeed. Further, many of the higher end products are just not available in the store to see. And it’s very geographically dependent. AB testing is not done very effectively aside from the lack of availability of many products. Which makes sense as each Store is pretty much required to buy anything they show you. It’s an awful business to be in, and requires someone who truly is dedicated to the craft and not necessarily interested in making a lot of money. The true craftsman who sell hi-fi products, if you're lucky to live near one, are really really nice people and you can learn a lot from them.
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Discussion about religion really doesn't belong here but given that it's being tolerated now, I'll ask @crlambert: When you say I need to read my Bible, what you really mean is that you insist I read your Bible, right? |
You’re missing out if you choose not to read it. The book contains sex, romance, love, sword fights, epic battles, mysteries, miracles, fantastic creatures from other worlds, fantastic beasts, fantastic tales, hope, heartbreak, vengeance, and promise for all mankind. It also answers the questions why are we here and how we got here. Now regarding audio: In order to build an audio system either modest or grand the first question is, “What do you want the system to do?” Having brick and mortar stores in the past helped guide buyers to make those decisions. These days it seems people get the cart in front of the horse. |
Sadly most of them are going away. This younger generation only cares if they can hear it, on their phone, Bluetooth speaker. They really don't want to experience it. Luckily for me there is a good shop that does new and used equipment and will let you take home stuff and audition it for 14 days if it's used more if it's new. And if you don't like it bring it back and get your money back. Worked out great for me, I went through three sets of speakers before I found the ones I liked. |
I feel like it's a management and communication problem. People, old and young, male, female, black, white, any and all minorities love music. Manufacturer's web sites are horrible, listening to systems is nearly impossible, how would someone with limited time and budget put together a satisfying system? Most of us have good hearing and at least one in 10 is head over heels for listening to music in high, mesmerizing quality. We used to have local shops, Circuit City, Tweeter, Lechmere, etc. now the last one: BestBuy is downsizing, all we got left is online. There has got to be a better way.... |
I believe any music lover might be open to hearing about how their music might sound better. The problem begins and ends with the prices. The stores that seem to do well have made a huge investment to stock the ultra high end. Bottom line if I can't listen in your store you have offered me nothing more than an online seller. |
Honestly now that I have thought about it I was mostly misled and ripped off and taken advantage of by "brick and Mortar"- I would rather research and order online and take my chances- I also love streaming- I don't much miss record stores either and I'm 70; And I saw 400 Dead shows in analog for starters. You can order anything half way decent out of the box for daily use noe unless you're a Russian oligarch and require that kind of high end service and and pay for that kind of respect. And I know we have a few here... |
If you want the honest truth instead of circling around the existence and reason for their downfall, learn to except all customers who walk in their store without prejudice and stereotypes. Now some of you may claim that this doesn’t happen but it does. The sad part is that my daughter witnessed the whole thing in front of her eyes. Here is what happened a few weeks ago at an high end audio store in Las Vegas by the name of AV Luxury Group. We walked in looked to hear some equipment, potentially wanting to make a purchase for my daughter and getting the young adults into HiFi and the first words that comes out of the salesman’s mouth is, “sorry, we don’t carry anything Best Buy carries. There’s a Best Buy near by.” I said, “that’s funny because I didn’t know that Best Buy carries Boulder Amplifier.” Not that it matters that I do own Boulder gear but wow, there’s your reason. I along with others especially young adults would not support a store like this one. Now some may want to defend the store and so forth but until you walk in our shoes, you have no leg to stand on and are part of the problem, not the solution hence the reason why Best Buy are putting these small mom and pops stores out of business because the way they treat potential customers walking in their store that doesn’t look like them or the type that can afford what they are selling. |
Hopefully the troubled stores will get a clue and clean up their act before they too become extinct! I have a few stores I deal with across the country and have remained loyal to them because of their exceptional customer service. I don’t mind spending or referring future customers to them. My motto is this, I don’t care how far I have to go and get something. If the local companies have terrible attitude towards me as a customer, I will go to great lengths to buy from another state and pay the shipping because they treat me well. Audio Element, 3M Audio, Moon Audio and Audio Advise are some examples of a great attitude towards customers. They will continue to receive my money for their products. Also, I can’t forget Cary Audio, Wilson Audio, YG Acoustics, Boulder, JL Audio, and Jeff Rowland for great service and response to issues, big or small. Thanks for your support! |
60 year old audio/music lover here. issue one is listening style. Sitting down and listening to music was normal for our generation. Black and white tv with 7 channels and horribly unreliable tubes, was the only competing media. Phone calls actually cost money per use. Our parents had time as there were no play dates, we walked or cycled to little league or music lessons. My younger colleagues have no time to listen to music other than in the car issue two. Cd audio introduced before the technology was ready. Turntables competition from BIC, Dual, Garrard, Sansui, was increasing reliability and speed. The early cd players all sounded the same, and were uninvolving, making a rack system from circuit city all you needed. Cost. Very friendly dealer is 25 miles from me in a major market city. Most merchandise is priced to the Uber high end, with speaker cables and power cords priced higher than my speakers. When I started practicing 30 years ago, most of my colleagues had high end systems. I know if only one now, and the dealer said his customers are ceos cto or cio types that listen to the products, put together a great system and pay with an Amex black card without regard to pricing |
