GIK Acoustics by far offer the most effective and best value.
Also great advice.
Also great advice.
What are the best Room Accustic Treaments members have found?
I am looking into adding some room acoustic treatments to my room. I am just looking for advice on some simple room treatments that fellow members found worthy of purchase.
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GIK Acoustics is a good company offering the traditional approach to room acoustic treatment. This approach to me, makes the room look like a listening room or recording studio. As my room functions primarily as a family - living room I use the Synergistic Research approach of using a group of resonators attached to the walls. These are small and do not distract from the décor of the room. In addition to being highly effective, they are easily moved to work with a change in room layout or music equipment. Being removable they can also be used in future listening rooms. Maximum flexibility, excellent acoustic effect and minimum visual distraction. David Pritchard |
GIK provides the lowest-cost treatments that are attractive and are developed and tested in accordance with known acoustic theory (unlike some of the gongs, pucks, tuning-fork like devices, etc.). They will send a treatment plan for a low fee, refundable with the first order. Their treatment plan will not skimp on devices, so you may not need all of what they suggest to meet your needs. ASC and Vicoustic are also very good. The detail of workmanship tends to be a little better, but the cost is higher. Vicoustic stuff can be very stylish. Vicoustic offers an innovative tuned bass trap that can be adjusted to address any particular bass frequency that is problematic. I would advise you to do some basic reading on room acoustics first, so you know what you are trying to accomplish (bass trapping, first-reflection attenuation, removal of slap echo...). Most acoustics manufacturers use Guilford of Maine fabrics to cover the panels or traps. Guilford offers thousands of fabrics; by choosing one to go with your decor, you can improve appearance tremendously at relatively little incremental expense. |
One of my favorite GIK products is the soffit traps. In particular, for corner traps, really wide coverage in small footprint, and for an apartment dweller, easy to stack a pair in each corner. If you are attempting deep bass, or have 2 way speakers you want to make sound bigger, highly recommend them. |
Asc is the company I have used . They don’t charge you anything upfront for their recommendations. They even sent me equipment, free of charge, to record tones played back through my sound system, recorded from my listening chair so that they could assess articulation and the problem frequencies that needed taming. They then sent me blue prints on what they recommend to be done in phases, based on videos , pics of my room and the results from the above sound recordings. Jordan is the sound engineer i work with and he bounces all ideas through Art. They are always available to answer your questions and they were and still are a pleasure to work with. |
GIK service and products are very good and competitive. Keep in mind, they carry NO inventory; everything is made to order. It’s how they keep their prices down. My salesman told me today, an order placed today would deliver 2nd week of January, at best. The suggestion to read up on the subject is a good idea. GIK has some good You Tube videos. So does Acoustic Geometry but they’re very expensive. Lastly, GIK list their suggestions in the order of importance. If you have the patience, purchase one solution at a time. I think you will make more cost effective decisions (if you can be patient). Best investment you can make to maximize your investment. Cheers |
If you’re looking for simplistic old school acoustic treatment you can do every bit as good as GIK only faster and for a tiny fraction of the cost stretching whatever fabric you like over Owens Corning acoustic panel. In fact if you look at their website they have the exact same OC panels. If paying $1k for $50 worth of room treatment is worth it to avoid having to learn how to use a sheetrock knife, go for it. GIK is simplistic old school treatment. Next generation and so much more effective you can hardly believe it are Synergistic Research HFT. They make these in different versions designed to go on walls, ceiling, and speakers. Unlike the panels that do very little really, and nothing that like someone already said can be done with furniture (carpet, etc) these things are insanely effective in improving imaging, extension, detail, dynamics, essentially making your speakers, and walls even, disappear. I’ve done panels, traps, corner tunes, you name it, going back to the 90’s. Actually my 1973 teenage bedroom had egg cartons, functionally identical to GIK just not as pretty. Compared to HFT that stuff is stone age. People I guess are slow to catch on. So you get a lot of advice from people stuck in the 1950’s. Go figure. Free 30 day trial. Which don’t worry, you will not be sending them back. |
You got your Skyline diffusers. You got your Echo Tunes from Michael Green. You got your Acoustic Discs from Golden Sound. You got your tiny little bowl resonators from Franck Tchang and others. You got your crystals and you got your Mpingo disc from Shun Mook. Don’t shun the Mook! You also got your hand built Helmholtz resonators. |
davidrolson, forgive me if you already know this. Room treatments generally address damping (absorbing) or redirecting sonic reflections. if you do some research, you'll have a good handle on what your room "needs" Many of us have made absorption panels with OwensCorning foam insulation installed in frames with nice fabric covers. It sounds like you've made the first step to realize you want to treat your listening room; many never do that and IMO that's the primary building block to a good listening experience. Good luck. |
Before I invested in GIK panels I rolled up a thick foam mattress cover (cut in half) and propped/tied them up in various spots to get an idea of the effects.The same could be done with a rock wool panel.Straddling the corners had the most effect,especially close to the ceiling.If that works for you they absolutely won't be noticeable at all. If you decide on diffusion or panels on the walls both are easily made to become part of the decor.The panels can be ordered with art prints of your choice. GIK did not charge me for consultation and the panels are returnable.Look around their site and of course other companies.You can send pictures,diagrams,and frequency measurements to help the people at the companys give an informed opinion.Best of luck! |
As you add treatments, be careful not to add too much absorption without some diffusion as well. Combination products, such as the GIK Alpha series or RPG's BAD panels or any ASC product, will give a more pleasing acoustic result, in my experience, than simply adding panels made with fiberglass, rockwool, or foam and without any reflective elements. |
Has anyone tried Stillpoint Apertures?? they seem super interesting as a smaller scale intervention... From: "Official Site of Stillpoints - Stillpoints Aperture" / stillpoints ❝When using conventional acoustic panels made of typical absorbing materials, there will be only one volume level at which the absorbing material will control the acoustic energy within the room adequately. (This is a static system.) At volumes above that level, you would need more absorption. At volumes below that level you will have too much absorption and the room will sound lifeless, dark, and dull. The Stillpoints Aperture utilizes a blend of absorption materials, and a unique design of internal chambers to trap acoustic energy.❞ https://hivelighter.com/published/b462195c-c5be-4a28-976d-73406e1e15f3/index.html |
A tip of the hat 🎩 to Acoustic Revive’s QR-8 Quartz Crystals. From the Acoustic Revive web page, Principle & Structure Quartz Resonator QR-8 is not magic or occult. Reason why the sound improves by using QR-8 is that because, by placing QR-8 onto an agenda which causes resonance, the resonance frequency of agenda changes and it stops any resonation. Agenda such as plug, connector, parts, equipment switch, equipment housing, and door in the room, windows, wall, floor and ceiling resonates by its particular resonance frequency and by placing QR-8 will change the frequency and stops the resonance. But placing QR-8 to an agenda which does not resonate, adversely QR-8 may cause it to resonate or to over dump. So you have to be careful where you place the QR-8. You can check if QR-8 is causing the agenda to resonate or over dumping by listening to the sound. |
+1 on GIK. Jim Smith's "Getting Better Sound" is a handy reference for room optimization. I've been working on The Room for the last year or so, I found a set of eight Aurelex 2' x 2' foam studio panels on line, made some cheap stands/frames to hold them up, got four concrete forming tubes, and moved these around the room to figure out what should go where, before buying from GIK. One problem I am not yet sure how best to solve is my front wall has a 6' x 6' window. Initially I put up huge heavy drapes, which made for a nice dark background (both acoustically and visually), but as time went on I realized I missed the light, and also when I opened the drapes but left the blinds closed, it seemed to make for bigger sound stage. And after 1.5 years, I realized that the drapes are fugly. So I plan to buy some cellular shades plus a textured wood blind that will raise/lower over the blinds, hopefully have the choice and best of both worlds. Might be TMI, but that's my room story so far. Oh, and I dumped the rack in the front of the room, that was an instant improvement, probs bc it was Ikea. |
If aesthetics are not a priority and you can live with the look of unfinished foam this is an inexpensive possibility: http://www.nextacoustics.com/ |
I will add to the list of supporters for GIK products. I have found the products attractive with a good selection of fabric colors, fairly priced, great customer support and quick delivery. Some of the pieces are large and appear that they would be heavy, but in reality are very light for their size. I suggest going with bass traps in the front corners and two side panels for mounting on both side walls slightly in front of each speaker (first reflection point) as a first starting point. If you sit very close to the rear wall then you probably should add another wall panel right behind your head centered on that wall assuming you are sitting centered to the wall. The wall panels in my opinion should be the thicker ones to cover a fuller frequency range. The thin ones are mainly for the higher frequencies. This should get you started with a quality product. |
I have one of the newer Stillpoints Apertures placed on the floor between and slightly behind my speakers. Helps to focus the image and enhances coherency of the whole presentation. I enthusiastically recommend giving it a listen. Domestically, I appreciate being able to easily slide it away next to my equipment rack when not listening. |
I have both GIK bass panels and corner traps and ASC Tube Traps. The ASC Tube Traps, though more expensive, are by far and away the more effective of the two. So much so that the GIK corner traps and some of their bass absorber/diffuser panels are now out of the stereo room and are in the family room with the AV system. The workmanship is also much higher with the ASC products. I was disappointed in the overall workmanship of the GIK products, which came from the factory with exposed staples on some panels, wrinkled seams, and front decorative diffuser panels improperly fastened and bowed. Eight 3' Tube Traps (two stacked in each front corner, with their diffuser side turned toward the sweet spot; two stacked to the outside of each speaker in the plane of the speaker fronts) made more improvement in the overall sound from top to bottom of my stereo than any component-level upgrade I've done. Though not cheap, ASC products sometimes go on discount for show samples and clearance. Good luck, Steve Z |
My suggestion would be to find out what your room is doing before seeking solutions to issues you may or may not have. If you live near a local B&M store that installs home theatres, or an AV installer, chances are they have a program that will analyze your room. They should do this for a reasonable price - you are basically asking them for a quote to treat your room with whatever is needed and they will make suggestions about what sonic measures should be taken. Whether you accept their bid to do the job or not, you have to be prepared to pay a reasonable fee for their time and expertise to analyze your issues. If you still want to do it yourself, come back here and ask specific questions about what you need to do to rectify specific issues. |
Wall placement as required by speaker setup reccomendation, reasonable amount of furniture and wave breakups, such as bookcases filled with books, and damping material placed strategically on walls, ceiling if hot spots (excessive refections) found. Do this, and you will have a decent setup. After that, it is all refinement and experimentation. |
WOW, after I read what @joshfilm posted I went to the Stillpoints site, not believing that this patent drivel and misinformation was up for all to see. I no longer have any interest in their products. This insult is the worst kind of advertising. I was appalled to read this : ❝When using conventional acoustic panels made of typical absorbing materials, there will be only one volume level at which the absorbing material will control the acoustic energy within the room adequately. (This is a static system.) At volumes above that level, you would need more absorption. At volumes below that level you will have too much absorption and the room will sound lifeless, dark, and dull. The Stillpoints Aperture utilizes a blend of absorption materials, and a unique design of internal chambers to trap acoustic energy.❞ The amount sound is affected by an absorber is directly due to its coefficient of absorption and the amount/ thickness of material used. The absorption is NOT dependent on how loud you listen! I recommend you educate yourself on room treatment. There is much on the net, some good and some not so good. Ethan Winer has some you-tube videos worth watching. @millercarbon states that absorber panels are 'old school' and do very little and that carpet will do the same. This is not correct. The acoustic phenomenon does not care about old school and measurement will bear this out. Consider buying a measurement mic. like Behringer for about $80 and using either Holm Impulse or REW. Both are free downloads. I use Omnimic which is on sale from Parts Express for $250. All these will allow you to measure what your room is doing and by looking at the csd plots you will be able to see which are the most troublesome frequencies. The average listening room requires a T60 of about 400ms. This is the time it takes for the sound to decay by 60dB. This takes all the guesswork out of the equation. If not interested in measuring, though I find it so informative and a lot of fun, then by mounting bass traps in the corners, broadband absorbers (the ones millercarbon scoffs at) and diffusers if you have the space, you will be well on your way to being sorted. Just these will make a huge difference to your sound and I mean HUGE, more than a component upgrade. You will no longer have the sound taking too long to die away confusing and smearing everything. It is difficult to conceptualise the way in which strong early reflections ruin the sound. I again urge you to learn about this so you are not misled and can make informed decisions. For example many companies advertise bass traps but just looking at these things it can be seen that they are far too small to be effective. If you can DIY look up superchunk bass traps. Not difficult to build but they are large and this is what is needed to for them to work down to low frequencies. A basic formula needed in this game is wavelength (lambda) = V/f V= velocity of sound 343m/sec f=frequency I mention this to show you why it is folly to expect carpet to do anything useful, in fact wall to wall carpet is deleterious. Take a carpet 1/2" thick, from above formula, frequency=V/lambda= approx 2700hz. This is the freq. that will be absorbed. Because carpet is thin this will present a narrow band of absorption and because there is carpet everywhere that freq. will be missing in action. It is gone, absorbed and no EQ can bring it back. This also explains why bass traps are LARGE. Dear OP I wish you luck and feel free to PM me if you like. |
Active eq after room analysis with that device, with said space having the furnishings you care to have within it. Then you can fine tune the 'details'.... Even if you have a dedicated space (most of us don't), this IMHO is the only logical approach to something you can live in....and not merely 'visit'..;) |
I have just been through finding the right treatments. I've been in touch with Jim Smith (GetBetterSound.com) and I have been following his lead on the issue. He's got nearly 40 years experience in voicing systems of all sizes and types for people like us, manufacturers and dealers. I've used HFTs. They do what has been said. But they are High Frequency Transducers. What about low frequency, nodes and booming? HFTs won't touch the low frequency. In my small room(11'X12'X8') the HFTs worked very well but I still had booming bass and nodes. I had to use absorption for that. As my research began the consulting from GiK I received was way off base and I live in Atlanta and went to their plant. One guy sold me 2" panels when I needed 4", the next guy wanted me to buy about $2000 worth of additional panels after I already purchased six. He had them hanging from the ceiling and everywhere else. If I'd have done what he recommended my room would be dead! And he didn't address the trihedral corners! ,GIK is much more pricey than say ATS. Same stuff, way better prices but no consulting. I always agree with what @millercarbon says, but in this case I take exception to his statements about the HFTs. They are not a be all, end all. I checked out ASC on Jim Smiths recommendation. Truly phenomenal products. In my room I need two 16" tube traps. No problem, $2500 plus $250 shipping, great consulting though. I did put a 4" panel in the front corners and some huge foam traps in the front upper trihedral corners. That tamed things down quite a bit. I have 2" panels at the early reflection point on the sides and directly behind the listening position. It sounds right. My speakers are at near field (64" away and 54" apart) The sound stage is stable, wide and deep. I'm still dealing with a node that occurs only occasionally now. The sum of all this. If your room is too bright the HFTs will tame it nicely. If you have booming bass you'll have to absorb it. Rollin (formerly Rollintubes) |
“I know HFTs are high frequency transducers but what about transducers for low frequencies?” - That’s gold, Jerry, gold! High frequency transducers affect low frequencies of the acoustic waves as well as higher up the frequency range. That’s because - as first reported by Stereo Times for the Franck Tchang tiny little bowl acoustic resonators - small aperture bowls act to “equalize” sound pressure in the room, so all acoustic frequencies are affected. In fact everyone was quite surprised to hear the bass improved so much. |
Sometimes simple is amazingly effective. When I placed a pair of ficus trees (artificial) behind my 6 ft Maggies, the change from the diffusion was a huge improvement at a minimal cost. Nothing against all the other suggestions, just that one need not spend the earth to achieve significant improvement. |
Primacoustic out of Canada is the real deal. As a division of Radial Engineering it's the same product that is used in professional recording studios. They have also standardized on colors, shapes, sizes and thicknesses so they can mass produce keeping prices low and product available for immediate delivery. I believe also unique to Primacoustic is a paintable or printable panel. You can match or accent room color or have images reproduced by commercial printers using a big flatbed inkjet printer. I agree with the other poster about panel thickness and the laws of physics. A 2" thick engineered fiberglass panel is going to absorb effectivly down to about 100 Hz. The absorption of a 1" thick panel will not... A 1" thick panel works best as a scatter block on the live wall of a listening room (in an Abbey Roads style recording studio.) In a live wall - dead wall panel arrangement the speakers are on the dead wall. The scatter blocks on the live wall are a way to absorb excessive tweeter energy. In the live wall - dead wall arrangement the 2" thick panels are concentrated in the front half or 2/3 forward end of the room. For control of standing waves typical to most rooms you'll need bass traps. Primacoustic has these as well and reccomended corner placement of the traps for best effect. The surface are of the traps should be calculated as part of the total treatment as discussed below. There is such a thing as perfect placement. But the single biggest factor is having enough treatment to achieve your acoustic goals. This means having somewhere between 12% and 25% of the total surface area of the walls treated (not ceiling or floor surface area but walls only though paneling can be mounted on the ceiling if wall placement is not possible) depending on how "hard" or reflective your room is. Again, perfect placement is great but having enough treatment is the key and will get you 90% of the way to your goal. And that is good news because sometimes windows, doors and partner acceptance factors get in the way of perfect placement. The nice thing about Primacoustic is that it's scaleable so that you can dial in your room. For instance, 15% not enough? Take it to 20%... Primacoustic reccomends changing treatment in 5% increments as you'll unlikey hear smaller increments. (The tipping point is 5% with the big tipping point at 10%.) This way you can dial in your room the way you dial in your equipment rig with cables and amps. Good luck with your acoustic goals. |
David, It all depends on your room and the type of speakers you have. For primary reflections over 200 Hz acoustic tiles work great and are dirt cheap. https://www.parts-express.com/sonic-barrier-fwp122-studio-acoustic-foam-wedge-panel-12-x-12-x-2-black-12-pack--260-547 You can find your primary reflection points using the mirror method then place these tiles at those points. Your image will solidify. Dealing with bass is far more complicated. The best way is to use multiple subwoofers. |
It depends what you want... I worked with vicoustic and submitted a project to them, they came back with 3d renderings and room modes analysis and treatment suggestions. I believe other companies offer similar services. I used diffusers and absobers, mainly on reflective points and it brought a sense of ease to the music. I didn't go all the way because I didn't want to turn my living room into a mastering studio. If you want something even more aesthetic, I would look at artnovion. They have some good looking products. Others mentionned GIK, it's also good. |
ieales516 posts12-05-2019 2:04am" Books, shelves, art & carpets. But then, I spent a few decades in sound studios, so I'm probably odd man out here. " This must be basic. No audiophile should ever put up big pictures with reflecting glass-fronts. We need to be aware of the impact a leather sofa has in the room versus a velour sofa or chair. Know that real paintings made on canvas are wery efficient diffractors and will eat flutter-echo. Decorative wooden blinds are actually adjustable diffractors and will calm down big windows or mybe a wall. Avoid naked corners, try to brake them up with something. I have a big plastic tree in one of mine, next to a classic painting with a matching motive. Females looks at this and give me an appreciative look. If they only knew.. |
One thing I can say without fear of contradiction that does not (rpt not) work is SONEX foam panels. You know what I’m talking about, those sculpted dark gray open cell foam 2x2 panels that are ubiquitous in control rooms and recording studios. SONEX foam and similar products, even foam filled chairs like the IKEA POANG chair, have to be one of the worst sounding materials ever foisted on naive and gullible audiophiles. Even a little bit in the room makes the sound unnatural, phasey and wooly. |
+1 for Primacoustic panels. Purchased mine from Sweetwater Sound. Placed them on all four walls plus the ceiling at all first reflection points. Enormous improvement in SQ. More than any gear change. Remember, the room and the setup determines at least half of what you'll hear. Also +1 for Jim Smith's book Get Better Sound. |
+1 for avoiding a foam solution. It does not work evenly over all frequencies and is also a fire hazard. The best engineered panels are made of 6lb per cubic foot fiberglass. The way they work is that the acoustic energy hits the fiberglass causing the fibers to vibrate. The fibers vibrating against the air causes friction with the air turning the acoustic energy into heat... Something like a millionth of a degree or less... Fiberglass panels typically keep their shape with an acoustically transparent covering and a resin frame. Acoustic diffusers work great for diffusing the sound but do little to absorb excessive acoustic energy in a room. Furniture, rugs and carpeting can help absorb excessive acoustic energy in a room. But the problem is how much and what frequencies. Well engineered acoustic panels can help control a room in equal increments. Have a softDr room? Try 15% treatment. Have a hard room? Try more treatment but keep it to a max of 30% or risk making the room dead or dark... Unless, of course, dead or dark is your purpose or pleasure. Forensic labs might use a 50% treatment of 2" panels. |
Because rooms vary so much in construction it is difficult to predict acoustic behavior by guessing. There is no need to guess, for less than the price of a pair of modest interconnects or isolation product which may or may not have an effect, a suitable microphone and free download will allow you to determine the problem frequencies and then treat them with absorption. This will have a profound effect which will elevate your system's performance to the point where perhaps a component upgrade that was being considered is now no longer necessary. It is, if done correctly, The suggestion of crowded bookshelves, curtains, carpets and clutter is no more than guesswork. Adding any or all of these will have an audible effect, unfortunately it probably isn't an improvement. The books will just collect dust and the drapes and carpet are only narrow- band absorbers. @gaffekait You scoff at my mention of E. Winer. Why is that? He is certainly more on track than Acoustic Fields. Forget the guy's name, Foley or Folly. I could have mentioned the famous acoustician Leo L Beranek but it is very technical and does not make for easy reading. As the OP is clearly not knowledgeable on acoustics, steering him towards Beranek probably would not help. The OP may have no interest in any reading anything so I felt an easy intro into the subject could be to watch a short video. |
