I did a quick comparison of the first few minutes of Scheherazade, between the SACD and the reissue Vinyl.
I adjusted the volume so that the opening (bass heavy) chords were within a dB or so. The levels of the violin entry were subsequently somewhat different. Roughly 4dB difference, the vinyl louder. The opening is bass heavy, do that would suggest that the bass levels are depressed in the LP.
Part of this is probably that loud passages tend to have higher bass content and LPs, were (are?) dynamically compressed owing to limitations of the medium. (NO judgement of sound quality but the dynamic range of an LP is 70dB at most, SACD or high res PCM at least 96dB).
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alright, so I did some testing last night on 2 songs.
Daft Punk album. With the LP version it was very similar in bass vs tidal. one song had more pronounced bass on the LP version and another on the streaming version, but very very slight. Seems like maybe the last few albums I spun on record caused me to think there was a lack of bass.
When I said older it was 80s rock. So I know one Skid Row I had listened to a few months ago and the one from 2 nights ago lacked some bass, but it seems like this must be the recording and not an issue with the LP itself.
Also, like most are mentioning, I will need to wait for the cartridge to fully break in. I just wish I could fast track it. 100 hours is probably something like 133 records. I am keeping track as I mark the ones Ive listened to. I guess I need to be a bit more patient. Will probably put some Black Sabbath on tonight.
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@tomrk I love Styx and I think that might be the only LP I don't have of theirs. lol I'm going to check it out though. Not to get too far off topic but have you listened to Crash of the Crown. It took me a minute but some of the tunes are really good imo. Def a dif kind of Styx but pretty interesting.
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@lewm
I haven’t “confused” anything. I was referencing early production cdp’s. I thought I said that. Also, of course the term “brick wall” is a metaphor for very steep slope. I probably was remiss in not acknowledging that SACD and DSD ameliorated the problem. But I still hear an unnatural abrupt cutoff of extreme low bass with physical discrete CDs. For whatever reason.
Research doesn’t support me. I was wrong apparently about the low frequency limit built into RBCDs, but I still hear a less natural extreme low frequency response with RBCDs. I have to re-read some 1970s literature to remember why.
No, you simply said digital!
To me this is the perfect example of confirmation bias. You read something in Stereophile decades ago and now authoritatively state that digital has a low frequency cut-off at 22-Hz, which is completely untrue. You only have to understand how digital is formatted to understand this. Or to check out a specification. To the best of my knowledge, there simply is no low frequency limit built into RBCDs, yet you repeat "the low frequency limit built into RBCDs".
You claim you hear this when you go to a concert, so it must be true, but it simply does not exist!
Now it may well be that your digital playback system incorporates a high pass filter somewhere in the chain. DC offsets are not good for speakers, after all.
This is in no way an attack on you personally, because I have high regard for your analogue contributions, it is just an illustration of how audiophile myths can easily become lore.
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@vair68robert
Im going to open it up and check. Here is where Im confused and because of my bad memory, I dont remember, but I know Ive had this discussion possibly with moon directly. Resistance loading : J12 and J30 is 1k but in Ω .
Capacitance Loading options : 0pF, 100pF and 470pF
From the Rega site in regards to the Ania:
Impedance 100 Ω
Capacitance 1000 pF
So Im assuming the Impedance = Resistance loading since its measured in Ω
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@vair68robert just to add, i just found info that I had asked in the past. So Im pretty sure i have Capacitance Loading set to 0pF as per the recommendation in the manual from Moon. they also re-confirmed this with me. And Impedance/Resistance Loading set to 100 Ω
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187
per Rega MC cartridges manual capacitance should be set to 1k , check it out and see if you hear the difference .
also what about your gain setting ?
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@vair68robert that is the issue sadly.
Capacitance Loading options are only 0pF, 100pF and 470pF and i was told to use 0pF and was told its not supposed to be that high for an MC cartridge, they were confused. the max i could try is 470pF, but not sure how much that will change. Also, I looked at the pass labs xp15 and that one also doesnt go to 1000pF either. I was told this setting is mostly for MM cartridges and not for MC. Can someone confirm this?
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187
please accept my apology , I am 100% wrong in my hazy thinking , you are correct using 100 ohm loading .
the 1,000pf input capacitance loading is one of the jumper settings on a Rega phono preamp for MC cartridges .
you should also be using the 66db gain setting on the Moon , the Rega phono pre's high is 69db .
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187
The Rega phono preamp is the first time I've seen capacitance loading on or for an MC cartridge as well as the resistance loading .
For you reference I have a Tavish Designs Adagio phono preamp .
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@vair68robert yes , correct, which I used to have the Aria before. Hence the confusion it caused me when i moved over. I do indeed have 66dB setting on balanced connection.
Wow, that Tavish looks nice! I never heard of them before.
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I scanned through the first 15 responses or so but didn't see this mentioned.
It is possible the cartridge is slightly out of tune by that I mean VTA may be a bit too high. You could try lowering the back of the tonearm slightly to see if it makes a difference (either positive or negative). The ability to fine tune the cartridge is one of the things I like best about vinyl.
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I went from Exact to Ania and there was a noticeable less bass with Ania.
MM to MC? Maybe. Same Phono pre but different setting = different gain? Maybe.
I had some boominess with some recordings on Exact. I miss some punch sometimes with Ania.
$0.02
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Rega is at the cutting edge of lightweight technology and is known for its quickness and are known to NOT have a prestigious bass, unlike mass loaded turntables which are known for ample bass.
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@kennyc
Interesting that Pro-Ject followed Rega down the lightweight turntable path, but Pro-Ject's Signature 12.2 table weighs in at 37-kgs, versus the Rega Planar 6's very lightweight 5-kgs!
My reading is that, for ultimate performance, high mass rules. There is simply more stuff to absorb unwanted vibrations. But this means higher costs for materials, finishing, supports and shipping.
I guess Linn is a bit beefier than Rega, but is not really in the heavyweight class.
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for ultimate performance, high mass rules…
Not necessarily, vibration control in top TTs may sometimes be better. I like both.
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@stevencason I think everything should be setup properly, the technician from the store I bought it from set it all up for me.
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There is one high-pass filter that I forgot about - the loudspeakers.
I have a Velodyne 18" subwoofer with 1250-Watts RMS power. It only goes down to about 15-Hz +-3db.
Although my CD player may go down to 2-Hz, even a big subwoofer cannot get close to producing much useful output at anything close to those frequencies. Velodyne suggest useful output down to 8-Hz.
There are a couple of pipe-organs with 64' pipes which resonate at 8-Hz. One is down the road from me, in the Sydney Town Hall. As luck would have it, my partner has just bought a 3-set CD collection including two CDs made with this organ.
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Too many variables to suggest your hypothesis. It’s suggesting digital has more bass, but vs. what turntable, cartridge, recording? You can’t make such a blanket statement unless you’re simply attempting to stir the pot with another digital is superior to analog narrative. Such threads here get old. Besides, those of us who prefer vinyl aren’t convinced that what you’re suggesting is true. So, you haven’t convinced anyone. Least of all a dyed in the wool vinyl enthusiast.
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I have a Rega Planar 10 with the Apheta 3 cartridge and Moon 810LP phono preamp and my bass on most vinyl is generally a little fuller than the digital counterpart played through the Moon 891 fed through Roon Nucleus via an AudioQuest Diamond USB cable. The digital has perfect bass and sounds best through this set up and not at all bass deficient, but the vinyl is a little more full and reviews of the Rega Planar 10 confirm that.
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skads_187. A high mass turntable will give you more bass. With that said, you may want to try a different power cord on your phono stage and preamp.
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@merland100 oh yeah, the 810lp is 2 jumps higher than mine and of course the TT as well. I might look into the P8 or P10 or go another route entirely. Im not sure yet. 891 must also sound really nice!
@grk I have to check, I believe I still need to upgrade my phono stage power cord, let me know if you have any suggestions, I was thinking of going with a BIS audio cable. For my preamp, I have a Shunyata Venom if I recall correctly.
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Well, I have been quite impressed with the Veritas Praesto power cords. I have them on a preamp and phono stage.Definitely a bump up on the upper and lower registers, plus made my system even quieter, which I thought was already very quiet. They have a 30-day return policy, so little to lose.
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@grk Thanks, I will check them out. Looking at their site, I have some similar local companies that might compare to that one.
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I recently went from a VPI with 20 lb platter to a Rega Naia package. The first thing I noticed was much tighter bass with the Naia. So TT mass and bass are independent. Additionally, consider the difference between quality and quantity of bass. I prefer less clean bass over lots of muddy bass, but that is just my preference.
Adding a SUT added more volume (in sense of space, not loudness) to the sound.
Bottom line, you can shape TT sound at lots of places.
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Could be a VTA adjustment?
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Vinyl can produce at least as good a bass as digital if you compare same recordings and you invest a lot. Conclusion it is your analog rig that falls short. Rega has a good price/value relationship bit is not known for producing powerfull bass.
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@jorgjean I think Ill need to make a new post. One thing that I did realize very recently was that I upgraded my amp, speakers and preamp in the past 1-1.5 years, but now my source components need upgrading as well to get its full potential. Let me know which turntable suggestions you have? I would probably looking in the price range equivalent to the rega p8, as that might have been my next step.
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