Upgraded McCormack DNA-1 or Dennis Had Inspire SEP?

Keep and use the DNA-1 amp! Don't worry about upgrading - it is already excellent!

It’s good, no doubt. And there’s that whole "not tearing my hair out trying to find the perfect tube combo."

But...I need...more.

I had a DNA-1 Deluxe for 20 years, loved it, and it finally died a few years ago (caps failed, and the main board reached its life expectancy). I made the mistake of not getting it rebuilt, and instead sold the dead box to SMc for $400 (iirc). MISTAKE! Now I want a new DNA-1 done with Steve’s top level Gravity Base upgrade and I can’t find a dead DNA to buy and don’t want to pay $1200-1500 or more for an old one that has no upgrades and then put another $3-5K into it. Any DNA that is 20 years old or more is going to need a rebuild in the near future.

Give SMc Audio a call and get the scoop from Patrick, and he’ll give you options and send you an upgrade price sheet. The new Gravity Base version is said to be really excellent sounding. For $3-4K you will have an amp that is really special. IMHO

Already had several chats with Patrick, Patrick.😁

He’s been really helpful. Thing is, I just don’t know what the amp will sound like. I just dropped $1200 on it, and it sounds good, but not "the performer is in the room with me" good (because 25 year old amplifier). I was approaching that with my tube amp.

But, according to Patrick (the one at SMc), what I have now is about "20%" of what it could be...which, if true, is mindblowing. But...we’re talking about another $2k minimum (and I understand the value I’m getting for that money). Something I’d have to save for.

Or...stick with tubes, and for $2k (which I can swing if I sell the DNA-1) pick up one of Dennis Had’s Inspire SEP amps...which keep showing up in my consciousness, triggered by multiple sources.

So tube sound...but damnit...tube rolling again.

Ahhhh...the paralysis of analysis.

But--high quality problems to have.

Maybe I just need new speakers.

Anyone have a pair of La Scala IIs, they want to sell?

I had the DNA rev A modded mono blocks 15 or so years ago with some Joseph Audio’s. I don’t know the mods SMC are doing now. The amps were very very nice. I don’t know how to describe it but they were a little thick or warm in the mids and detail wasn’t as airy as I wanted but the were very musical and I really enjoyed them for around 5 years. I know McCormack mates well with Vandersteen.

Send the pictures of your boards to SMC from what I was told the older version boards will fail. I was considering getting a DNA-1 few months ago because even though I complained about it I still miss those amp. They definitely play with authority 

The guy I bought my Don Sachs amps from bought all Dennis Had gear. I drove to pick up amps in person and listened to his Had gear and thought it sounded very nice. He was an older gentleman and the Don Sachs gear was to heavy for him and had to let it go. 

@jsbw 

Thing is, I just don’t know what the amp will sound like. I just dropped $1200 on it, and it sounds good, but not "the performer is in the room with me" good (because 25 year old amplifier). I was approaching that with my tube amp.

It your main priority is to achieve "performer is in the room with me" presentation I’d choose the SEP from the very talented Dennis Had. This recommendation assumes you have factored in your room size and desired/listening levels.

No amplifier does "everything " ideally so you have to know what you really want with clear and realistic acceptance. Given your apparent strong desire for convincing tactile presence, SEP without hesitation. The transistor DNA-1 may do certain other things better but not the reach out and touch flesh and blood tactile experience. My humble opinion.

Charles

Tube rolling shouldn't be much of an issue as there  would just be a single output  and driver tube per channel. Simplicity of design and signal path is a strength of SEP/SET amplifiers. 

Charles 

Just thought I would through this in if you keep the McCormack, it sounded to me very good with 6sn7 preamps. I ran the Rouge 99 magnum and Cary 98. The Rouge helped clean things up and Cary mad things more organic. I ran combination of Ken Rads with RCA’s. Good luck on your search.

cornwalls with a 150 wpc mccormack solid state amp... hmmmmmmmm

glad op can read and type, he might be deaf soon

I own the KT88 Fierebottle amp by Dennis Had. I have had a blast with it but I am a bit of an odd fish to say the least. My system sounds amazing with it but for me being able to try different tubes is a big draw. I love the tubes themselves and I enjoy hearing how they sound. Output tubes I've used so far include KT88, 7189A, KT66, El38, 6ar6, 807, and 6v6. I've used 6bx7, 6sn7, and 6sl7 in the input plus loctal versions of this and the 6v6. Lots of fun. But I do understand how that could be frustrating for some people. 

In my system (Topping D90, Supratek Cabernet, KT88 Firebottle, Phase Technology PC 3.5 speakers) I can get a variety of different sounds depending on what tubes I use. I'm currently using a pair of 7c5 tubes in the output and a tall 7n7 for the input. It's a. big, warmish sound. I can go very hi-fi if I put in the new KT66 with a Raytheon 6f8g. I love being able to change the sound of the system. It isn't a purist approach but a SEP will never appeal to the 100% accuracy crowd. 

I am wrestling with the same question— keep the McCormack DNA-1 Deluxe that I’ve had for 25 years and get it upgraded or change up and try something new.  I’ve only used tubes in my headphone rig ( Bottlehead Crack) but might be ready to try them for speakers.  Or maybe I just need to do both.  I’ve read on this forum that people who’ve worked with SMC loved the results.

 

@jsbw "But...I need...more."

 

@jsbw, before jumping ship altogether, which [if any] of the optional Jolida upgrades did you have installed for your Fusion 3502P tube amp?

https://www.jolida.com/upgrades/upgrading-your-equipment

• Upgrade I: Resistor, diode, capacitor and tube upgrade.
• Upgrade II: WBT Speaker Post, Cardas Input Jacks
• Upgrade III: Addition of bybee rails. Please note that not all units can have the bybee rail installed.
• Upgrade IV: Changing internal wire to ultra high grade signal wire.
• Upgrade V: Use of Hi End Capacitors eiither in the output stage or the coupling cap stage or both. Regarding the placement of hi grade capacitors, we primarily use Rike oil and paper capacitors, Audyn True Copper Capacitors. Call for pricing if the capacitors are not either Rike or Audyn.

I’ve heard upgrades II, V on the Jolida and I’m a former DH SEP Hot Rod amp owner, fwiw. Upgrades I through V on the Jolida is worth the price of admission. Add PSVANE KT88 output tubes and good matched NOS small signal tubes, and it sounds nice!

I have a Dennis Had Universal SET amp with a bunch of different tubes that I'm not using.  If you decide you want one you might PM me.  I've been too lazy to list in on US Audio Mart.

I own the KT88 Fierebottle amp by Dennis Had. I have had a blast with it but I am a bit of an odd fish to say the least. My system sounds amazing with it but for me being able to try different tubes is a big draw. I love the tubes themselves and I enjoy hearing how they sound. Output tubes I’ve used so far include KT88, 7189A, KT66, El38, 6ar6, 807, and 6v6. I’ve used 6bx7, 6sn7, and 6sl7 in the input plus loctal versions of this and the 6v6. Lots of fun. But I do understand how that could be frustrating for some people.

@isaacc7 I’ve loved tube rolling on the Jolida. Purchasing and selling all the tubes, not so much (see WAF). But it was only to get the best possible sound out of it, not to get different sounds.

If you are going to keep the Cornwalls, then  the DH low wattage tube amp is the route. Highly efficient speakers like yours @ 102 db sensitivity like low power. Its not about which amp is best. They both have their place. The DH tubes belong in your system as long as you have the cornwalls.

 I’ve heard upgrades II, V on the Jolida and I’m a former DH SEP Hot Rod amp owner, fwiw. Upgrades I through V on the Jolida is worth the price of admission. Add PSVANE KT88 output tubes and good matched NOS small signal tubes, and it sounds nice!

@decooney I'd maybe do upgrades I and V. The rest of it is snake oil, as far as I'm concerned. And shipping to Maryland from San Diego and back makes it somewhat cost prohibitive (but not as expensive as the money I just dropped on this McCormack, pre-upgrades). So...maybe.

If you are going to keep the Cornwalls, then the DH low wattage tube amp is the route. Highly efficient speakers like yours @ 102 db sensitivity like low power. Its not about which amp is best. They both have their place. The DH tubes belong in your system as long as you have the cornwalls.

@artemus_5 Yep. It’s Dennis Had or Steve Deckert. Or maybe the Jolida upgrade. I’ll give Jerred a call.

I will always have Klipsch Heritage speakers, full stop. And that, gentlemen, means I will always have tubes.

At least I’ve eliminated one option.

Taking the McCormack to UPS after this post. 

I vote Inspire.  Mine was wonderful. Should have kept it but changed to less sensitive speakers and sold it to get SS.  Mistake!

@ddd1

 I vote Inspire.  Mine was wonderful. Should have kept it but changed to less sensitive speakers and sold it to get SS.  Mistake

Live and learn.😊

Charles 

It's probably safe to say more than a few of us have sold amps we later regretted. And, not trying others would be a miss too, so it all works out in the end.  🤜  🤛

I’m pretty much in the same sitch.  I have a dead 0.5 Rev A that I loved and not sure if it’s worth the $$$ doing the upgrades or going with one of the newer GaN amps.  I’m leaning toward going with Steve’s upgrades cause I know it’ll sound awesome.  But here we are. 

@jsbw I do enjoy hearing how different tubes sound but I also think that an amp like the Inspire also allows you to find the tubes that will sound best with your speakers. As it turns out, the KT88 tubes just don’t work well with mine. After trying many different tubes, I think I have settled on two-ish combos. The tall bottle 7n7, RCA metal 6f6, and RCA 5y3 are an amazing all-around combo. Just on the warm side on neutral and I get the best lower mids and accurate bass too. I also love using an RCA 6bx7, GEC e3375, and RCA 5u4g for a more neutral built somehow different kind of lovely (sorry I’m awful at describing sounds). I also have the option of popping in the the new Gold Lion KT66 if I want a more traditional HiFi sound. It’s like having three different systems! With a regular amp you just have to hope it sounds good in your system  With the Inspire KT88 Firebottle you can change the amp until the system sounds the way you like it  

I will be able to sell off a lot of the tubes I’ve tried and decided they weren’t for me. I will be hanging on to a lot of them in anticipation of another amp. I want to add a push pull amp to my stable. 

Mmm. Dennis Had FireBottle. I enjoyed my time with one for over 6 years. I also had an LP-27 preamp and still enjoy his CJ5 pre, even though it's now out of fashion. There's newer from Dennis in the mix.

If your speakers are efficient enough, it's definitely fun to try different tubes in the low power SEP amp. But there's also something to be said for generous headroom for any speaker, let alone the most efficient. Having more than one flavor of amp handy can be very enjoyable.

soix, they might buy your 0.5 at the SMC shop. No promises, but it might be worth a conversation.

Well it’s been a minute. I’ve since upgraded speakers to a pair of ‘85 La Scalas (Dean Westcott modified AAs are on the way). Cornwalls are now being powered by a Harman Kardon 430 fed by an old MacBook Pro and Topping D10s in my office.

I like the Jolida, but I have the disease of Audiophilia, and I’ve never owned a single-ended amp, so I broke out the plastic and bought an amp from Mr. Had this morning. @pinwa, wish I’d seen your post before then, but it is what it is.

@jsbw  Actually, my Dennis Had Universal SET amp has got a new lease on life. I had never really paired it with a preamp with gain but recently I got an old Cary SLP-70 preamp that had been heavily modded and I liked it so much I decided to try it with the Had and it sounded pretty good. Then I saw a post somewhere about the Tung-Sol 7581A tubes sounding good with the Had and I bought a couple of those and it really brought the Had to life. Next I bought a pair of Tung-Sol EL34B’s and they really sounded good with the Had. So now I’m playing the Had all the time and I’m glad I never sold it. I’ve been having tons of fun rolling tubes. I think adding a good preamp with gain really changed how the Had sounded.  And the 7581A and EL34B tubes add a level of dynamics I hadn't heard before.

Which version did you just buy?

@pinwa his latest single-ended pentode with a pair of KT88s, a 6sn7 and a 5u4g.

I hope the combo is magic, because I’ve spent the last year (and many hundreds of dollars) rolling tubes into my Jolida.

I sold the DNA-1, bought some Klipsch LaScalas, and suddenly realized that the McCormack’s thick low end combined with the anemic low end (compared to the Cornwalls’) of the LaScalas would have likely been a lovely combination.

Oh well. 
 

Dennis’ amp arrives next week. New Dean Westcott crossovers soon thereafter.

I hope your opts are good performers.

@jsbw Congrats on the amp! Should be great with the Klipsch. I've done a lot of tube rolling with mine. If you're not afraid of using adapters you can get sublime sound for not too much cash. You can use soooooooo many different tubes, you can go crazy. I might resemble that comment lol. I've used 6aq5,6f6, 6v6, 807, 6ar6, el34, kt88, el38, 7c5, and probably more for output tubes. So many good sounding combs out there. 

Not trying to interfere in your quest but I have a Line Magnetic tube amp I luv and if I were looking into another integrated tube amp that had awesome bang for the buck and gave me the ability to get warranty work in the USA I would look hard at the Willsenton R800i. A beast of an amp and at a great price. Although it may run hot??

What is the minimum efficiency rating of speakers that one could get away with (with that amp)?

@immatthewj it's going to depend on how loud you listen and how far away your speakers are from you. I typically listen around 75db and max out in the mid 80s. My speakers are about 7 feet from me. My speakers (Phase Technology PC 3.5) are around 90db sensitive and I have no trouble hitting my limits even with my lowest power combo. Of course I'm probably rarely going over a watt at a time. 

@isaacc7   thanks.

My new Dennis Had Inspire arrived today.

Holy SH!T this was the absolute right choice!

@jsbw Woo! Glad it's meeting expectations. For some reason I have been blocked from signing in over at AudioAficionado and can't figure out how to get a hold of an admin. Let me know if you have any questions, I've been pretty active over there and had a big long thread about my adventures with tube rolling. Still experimenting with different tubes, including some exotic ones. 

@jsbw

 My new Dennis Had Inspire arrived today.Holy SH!T this was the absolute right choice

Congratulations and welcome to the wonderful sounding genre of low power tube amplifiers.

Charles

@isaacc7 i've been banned as well.  i'm guessing its because i haven't renewed my membership.  ivan the multi millionaire who only seems to have the site to brag and show off his equipment must really need my $20.....what a joke

@jsbw

 My new Dennis Had Inspire arrived today.Holy SH!T this was the absolute right choice

@charles1dad 

Congratulations and welcome to the wonderful sounding genre of low power tube amplifiers.

Fasten your seatbelt, or prepare to watch for different routes ahead.  Amazingly, the circuit design will change again for yet a whole new-better-wow version of "slinging solder" coming out soon,  out with the old and in with the new. Nope!  

It's unreal how many new circuits and variations can be discovered and different rectifier tubes to try with a small simple SEP tube amp :) Hopefully not to get on that rotating treadmill and just enjoy it. It takes a good preamp to make that amp sound its best. My inspire went to a new happy owner, enjoy!   

@gwng8 Sorry, just noticed you replied here. He was super passive aggressive about me getting back on. I went ahead and paid the fee because Dennis actively monitors the thread and answers questions sometimes via one of the posters. Hope you're enjoying the amp! I continue to be amazed and have made some more tube discoveries at the expense of my budget lol. 

Update: 

after a bit of tube rolling, I’ve settled on two sets of tubes, and left it at that. When I feel the itch to switch, I simply change one for the other.

haven’t missed the McCormack at all.

But now I’m developing an obsession with low-powered Nelson Pass designs… :)

@jsbw "after a bit of tube rolling"...

Nah, really? 🤣 That was my only frustration with my prior Inspire and a pile of sets of different tubes leftover. i.e. With my tube dac, along came a list of tubes and rankings with helpful listening reviews of each to decide which ocean to go fish. DH and his loyal followers could help a little more with a similar list to save folks some money and mystery. It's all speaker-dependent with that amp with little margin for error. An upgraded McCormick would be nice to have around and rotate in once in a while, imo. Enjoy, happy listening!