Under my tower speakers -- Isoacoustics Gaia, other options?

I watched the video, well I jumped through it.  Their comments about the Isoacoustics Gaia feet were that it improved the sound but the mid range became harsh sounding.  They seem to attribute this problem to the Gaia feet but I'm thinking the Gaias just uncovered another problem.  Think about when the speakers are on their spikes some smearing or smoothing of the sound covers up their mid range harshness problem.  Perhaps it is a cabling issue or their DAC.  That's the fun of this hobby- one change leads to another.  And so it goes...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cXRYay0Mbc

I cut wax paper into squares and placed them under the Gaia’s on my speakers until I got them into their final position.  I probably could have left the wax paper under them but I could not rest knowing the wax paper was there.  Did the sound change when I removed the wax paper?  Not at all.   

I've used GAIA IIs, spikes and springs under Spatial Audio X3s and much preferred the springs. Isoacoustics GAIA are a pain with heavy speakers on hardwood floors as they stick to the floor and you can't slide them easily.

The springs I used were modified Nobosound. The mods are easy, just drill a clearance hole then use a nut and bolt like this:

I recently switched speakers to Piega C40s and couldn't use the spring system so went back to the GAIA feet. Pain in the rear to get the speakers to move on my hardwood flooring. Then I tried Herbies gliders and they work great.

Thanks Robert (audiopoint) for the in depth discussion on the science of vibrational energy. Very long but because of recent experiences I read every word.

I am just someone who loves music and like most here have had a lifelong passion to get the most out of what gear we aquire. I have had my speakers on Townshend Podiums for almost a year and extremely pleased. So much so that I now have their Platform under my CD player. 

In your discussion you talked about coupling and transferring of vibration via metal contact surface. I understand that to mean a larger “contact patch” being beneficial. 
At some point in my research before purchasing my Podiums someone had commented that it was optimum for the loudspeaker cabinet to sit directly on the surface of Podium. When I initially setup the Platform under my Simaudio cdp, because I had already been using Symposium Rollerblock 2+ for years with excellent results, I placed them between it and the Platform. Nearly unlistenable and metallic sounding and very strange cancellations of some frequencies. All of this a new experience for me. Tried other soft footers and they all helped to rid the metallic aspect but it was obvious threre was still a resonance issue with disappearing solos or cymbal crashes. 
My last resort were a set of three stainless steel metal plates that I had been using in conjunction with the Rollerblocks. These were the answer! Kind of expected it all along but could never get confirmation from Townshend regarding the “contact patch”.

Someone upthread mentioned they were acquiring a couple Platforms and I would be interested to hear how they end up interfacing to the Platform. Because of my excellent experience with the Podiums my initial plan for the CD player was to placed “naked” on the Platform but because of a dozen or more button head screws (of different size) on the bottom I needed something at least 1/8” thick. 
 

The Podiums were such a revelation to me. I’m 63 and since the early 80’s have always used spikes under speakers. Game changer, personally. Really what started this journey was a Symposium Segue Iso under rigid Xerxes turntable to help alleviate footfall disturbances and it did this very well which led to more research on my part. Where I am at this point is that I believe acquiring a set of Precision Couplers or Super Couplers might be the cat’s meow….

 

I have the Gaia 1's under my Focal Sopra II's, they made a huge difference and improved the sound tremendously which surprised me because the Sopra's sounds so good to start with.

@dmk_hifi  The carpet spikes under Gaia footers should not be feared.  Two person job, or a really smart dog helping.  After footers are set, simply tilt back some and have the other person or dog place under the center of the footer.  Repeat.

Fair enough. Correlation doesn’t mean causation  

 

I’ve never heard of stands "settling in."

 

Audiophiles can imagine anything ;-)

Our perception is very plastic, but many audiophiles tend to attribute changes in their perception (for instance getting used to the sound of a new speaker or whatever) to "changes in the thing I’m listening to."

 

 

 

The basic design of the Sistrum and newer Rhythm stands is a steel platform with downward facing brass Audiopoints connecting the platform to the floor and upward facing Audiopoints connecting the platform to the equipment. The position of the points can be adjusted by sliding along slots in the platform. Each Audiopoint sits on brass coupling discs. It looks like newer versions have beefed up the coupling discs and there are options for different sizes discs. 

Took a look at the SP-101s and seems like a very different technology and because of all those small balls or whatever, I understand the settling comment now. Interesting to understand and hear comments about because of the difference. They do take up real estate but I think they have a clean look.

There are several substantial brass and steel parts to these stands, which we can be adjusted to fit your equipment. We had to loosen and move them to fit the new speakers then tighten. So that combined with the 100 lb weight of the speakers results in some settling. 

They are now at livevibeaudio.com. I will be trading in my Sistrums for the Rhythm-jr platforms, which should fit nicely under my speakers. The Sistrums take up a lot of real estate. 

@hchilcoat

This concerned dissipated over the next day as the stands and began to settle in.

I’ve never heard of stands "settling in." Interesting. Thanks for your narrative. Very detailed and clear. Also, the website for "starsoundtechnologies" appears to be no longer operative. Is the company still alive? 

I have been using Starsound Sistrum SP-101 stands on wooden floors for the past 10 years. These use the technology that @audiopoint describes above.  I originally had them beneath my Audiokinesis Jazz Modules in three different rooms with great success and just put them under my recently purchased Wolf Von Langa SONs.Colin King from Gestalt Audio Designs came to set them up for me. We first positioned them on the floor and carpet to start figuring out placement. Colin started zeroing in on a good placement and they sound very good. Then we started to try putting something under the speakers. I  also had decided to purchase some Gaia II footers so we could have them on hand to try. First we tried some rubber pucks that Colin brought. They offered little to no improvement over the SONs on wood floor or carpet. Then we put the SONs on the Sistrums. Right away there was a remarkable improvement in sound. Bass was tighter and more accurate without any of the slight boom we had been hearing. Highs were crystal clear and precise. Soundstage was wider and deeper. On some well recorded acoustic tracks that we had been using to test the set up, singers sounded very much like the were in the room. We didn’t even bother with the Gaia footers. One possible criticism was that the sound was now slightly on the analytical and lean side. This concerned dissipated over the next day as the stands and began to settle in. Since then I have been fine-tuning the placement of the SONs in the room and they sound wonderful on the Sistrum stands.

@dmk_hifi Regarding your question about recommendations for speakers on carpet, I previously had used the Sistrums with one or two of the downward facing spikes through the carpet and sitting on a coupling disc on the floor beneath the carpet.This worked great. However, after Colin positioned the SONs in their final spot in the room we decided to pull the rug back partially under the speakers so that the  front spike on the Sistrum was under the carpet. This rug was fairly thick and had a pad, which we couldn’t get the front spike through to make contact with the floor. This killed some of the magic we heard before. So we pulled the rug back in front of the Sistrums and the magic was back. I talked to Robert, who I purchased the Sistrums from,and he said the the latest version of LiveVibe stands are available with much more substantial coupling discs and the platforms sound incredible on carpet on these discs.I will be trading in the Sistrums for the new generation stands and will soon see how good they sound.

Although I can’t quite follow Robert’s (Audiopoint) description of their technology, it really seems to work incredibly well. I was tempted by the positive comments about the Townshend products and perhaps will try them sometime but for now I am sticking with a product that has worked incredibly well for me.

What isolation device do you recommend for speakers on carpet over suspended floor that allow for easy repositioning? I’ve looked at GAIA feet but am not crazy about prospect of having to stack them on top of the required carpet disks. 

I have used hockey pucks between spikes and carpet, not so much for vibration but to elevate the speaker height.

Now hockey puck with furniture pads (hardware store) underneath= poor man's gaya.

 

@audiopoint Thanks for weighing in. I am not sure I followed everything there. If you were to make your main point in a single clear paragraph, I'd be interested to read it. It might help me understand what you wrote, at length. I blame my own lack of knowledge for not following your points. 

Lemonhaze and OP:

I recently saw an Illusory test posted here on 1-21-23 at 11:23 AM using an aluminum cone. Is anyone using aluminum cones for audio? That is not a metal we would ever use for musical designs. Aluminum cones are lightweight, sounds terrible, and the frequency range is nuts.

Next, I viewed a list of statements and found them fictional, posted on 1-21-23 at 4:59 PM. Since there are two sides to every story, here is some food for thought. I may offend some who believe they understand vibration management products but do they?

Spikes came about in the early days of wall to wall carpeting to prevent the cabinets from dancing around by anchoring it to the underlying wood. Beyond that, the audiophile world has been misled as to their purpose. Rigid coupling feet will operate and perform the same function as the bridge does in coupling the strings to the soundboard of any string instrument.

Misled is a dangerous word, especially for someone who has worked in this field for over thirty years. Listings of generic statements and believing one theorem is better than another does not work for me. Home team testing and results also register a big zero.

We manufacture acoustic bass, cello, and violin parts. Attaching a string to a soundboard requires tension and tuning of some nature. This statement does not provide an appropriate analogy for whatever point you are attempting to make. 

The balance of these briefs appears as one man’s theory.

Vibration is a two-way street    

Vibration is sound. In sound reproduction, vibrations are infinite. Believing vibration is a two-way street describes an old-school approach to thinking and limits growth in understanding.

Spikes cannot drain energy to a heavier mass     

Metals are resonance conductive. The basic laws of physics dictate that all energy seeks Earth’s ground. When a resonance conductor meets the planet, does the energy force move upward to mars? Many here would like to see the testing methodologies that went into backing out this statement.

Our Company Founding Fathers, all well-written and published engineers, grew this business. The technical model based on the fact that resonance is in constant motion and is attracted to metallic conductive pathways is proven science. Resonance is formed by vibrations and travels on all surfaces regardless of size. From transistors to wall surfaces in music, energy is in constant motion.

Drain energy chosen by an audio marketing company seems so slow in motion. High-speed resonance transfer is more the norm when musical instruments, vocals, and sound reproduction are evident. Everything musical involves high speed and a timeline.

A small contact point actually amplifies vibrations    

Is this amplification effect audible? It has never affected our products or listening quality. What was the tip of your testing model resting on or into what contraption? What material does the test cone consist of, and what did the geometric design look like? Can we see those results? 

The bottom line is if humans cannot hear it, what is your point?

Spikes cannot reduce internally generated cabinet vibrations     

The speaker designer uses and relies on vibrations to create the tone we listen for in our speakers of choice. Why would the designer choose spikes to reduce internal vibrations? Damping materials make more sense.

On the flip side: The Audio Points™ reduce the vibrational resonance generated by electricity. Temperature is the control factor used in these experiments. How does decoupling a chassis take care of that vibrating transistor without a mechanical ground (coupling)?

Question one-size-fits-all and no lab report devices

Please rephrase your question.

Isolation will offer clarity that cannot be experienced with coupling because with coupling comes additional, unwanted vibrations     

Bullcookies. Coupling produces leading-edge dynamics and harmonic structures that are missing from many isolation and decoupling products. Salesmanship is the agenda without third-party testing and documentation to prove otherwise. We would prefer everyone use equal costing parts with appropriate testing labs to formulate comparisons.  

Stop using low-budget nail head spikes, handheld aluminum cones, little music boxes, and tuning forks in meaningless experiments. They prove nothing related to real-time musical performance. 

I grow weary of watching everyone test their dollar spikes against products costing more. It makes zero cents to me how a two-bit 1960s nail-spike design drives the conversation. Is this High End Audio, or is it high-end marketing? 

There is more to vibration than the tall tales presented for eliminating it. Why are some listeners so afraid of vibrations? Electricity has vibrational properties, so vibration patterns begin at the initial source we use to function as an industry. Electricity is a constant factor in understanding vibration.

Why do people attempt to eliminate vibration in a constantly vibrating environment? Like bailing water from a sinking ship using a teacup. You have become a victim of marketing if you believe this methodology.

Isolation means the mechanical path is either broken, or the form of energy is converted to another form

Explain how energy changes into heat and that form of energy become a gas. What percentage becomes heat, and where does the balance of resonance end up? Does the heat (ballistic resonance) return to the original conductive object of greater mass that generates it? Just because the energy changes form, it still seeks the greater mass of the closest ground plane. Energy always seeks the pathway of least resistance to Earth’s ground.

What happens to the energy when you “break a mechanical path”? It has to go somewhere other than the favorite scapegoat known as “turns into heat” and disappears like magic. 

We use coupling discs between the Audio Point tip on the carpet, tile, concrete, or hardwood flooring. For thirty years, we informed the public to put the pointed tip through the carpet and touch the flooring.  WE WERE WRONG. For more information, call us.

Isolation is easy to perceive

Do you mean easy to hear? 

Springs, discs, pucks, balls, pads, and all the materials have been in audio since the late 1980s. 

All these devices are coupling products according to the empirical laws. 

Two names have taken the modern-day helm leaving many methods of vibration management behind. Coupling and decoupling are the most popular marketing strategies used today. The only significant difference between the two theorems is coupling is based on the laws of vibration, motion, and gravity and is a science with history.

Anyone can argue that absolute isolation and decoupling cannot exist in the presence of gravity.

Decoupling carves new roads in the advertising gambit for repackaging and selling old stuff. The product designs and the packaging looks fancier today and still use coupling as their function regardless of storyboarding. The products sold long before the word de-coupling hit the market. The word decoupling has yet to gain any scientific meaning, despite the Sound Industry’s love for marketing.

Thank you for your time. 

Robert Maicks

Sound Engineer

Vibration Management Consultant

 

 

 

I put the Gaia 2’s under my Aerial 7t speakers about two weeks ago. My speakers are on carpet on a suspended floor, plywood over floor joists and were spiked.  The  first song I played there was a very noticeable difference or should I say improvement. The first thing I noticed was the improvement in bass. Less boomy, tighter and more focused. There was more separation between instruments and more clarity. The same with vocals. All the sounds were clearer and less smeared. I’m using the carpet spikes with the Gaias and it cost me around $800 with taxes. By far this is the best tweak I’ve done.

The Townshend podiums are fantastic. I'm posting a reaction/description of what I heard and why I am keeping them in a separate thread.

My second listening room's Legacy Signature IIIs have a down firing woofer.  I use a very heavy 2" thick Mapleshade block under them.  They previously sounded best on spiked carpet/slab.  They did not sound good with a 1" thick granite shelf under them. The CD player and small tube pre-amp sit on large buckwheat pillows (the EAR 324 also sat on a pillow for best sound).  The tube amp sits on a marble deck.  

I listened to nearly the entirety of the video, skipping some of the Isoacoustics sound examples (I already knew what they did to the sound and didn't have to hear the entire music to affirm that).  

@fleschler so you got through the video, lol?I have an old seismic sink also which is under an equally old Audiolab integrated that is used for TV duties. In my listening/living room the equipment is all on sand platforms, IsoAcoustics feet,and a walnut cutting board(CD player). My speakers are down ported like the sub in the video so I was very interested in what the different results would be if any. They definitely were not subtle. So I have two Primacoustic platforms ordered to try under the speakers and they'll also fit under my subs and I will see what happens for better or worse.Another tactic I was considering was fashioning something with a maple board along with EVA foam and neoprene which is a lot of fussing with correct ratios and heavy lifting. I'd really rather not.

 

@jtcf Thank you for positing this.  The video confirms what I heard with my first set of Pods under my CD transport.  I am pending receipt of Platforms for my pre-amp and amp.  (I have a 17 year old seismic sink which is essential for my VPI TNT VI-otherwise, I would replace it with a Platform).  

The podium prices are reasonable for most speakers.  The use for the subwoofer could be enhanced with a plate covering the cut-out logo in the middle of the podium.  As is, it's obvious that downfiring woofers or ports could react negatively to the cut-out.

It's tedious,yes.The men aren't exactly dynamic personalities. But I could definitely hear the differences in the tracks they played with the different products installed and was surprised by which combination I preferred by the end.I'm actually beginning to start the process of trying different footers and platforms. My floor is wood over a basement though so not applicable to your setup.

I watched as much of it as I could. 

Have you seen this video where three guys try the Townshends, Gaias,and Prime Acoustic platforms? It's very long but informative as they try different configurations. The floor is concrete with wood overlay.

 

I am considering the Podiums for my 185lb speakers. I live in an semi-active seismic area (San Fernando Valley). I currently use Legacy spikes on a very thick carpet/pad over a 12" poured concrete 3000psi steel reinforced slab. The podium could add greater stability and probably more defined sound (it’s already quite good).  However, the C type podium at $1800 price is 75% of the price of my speakers.  Probably worth it.

I tried Gaias (borrowed from a neighbor) under equipment. I prefer Ultra SS Stillpoints and Synergistic Research MigSx. I have ordered Pods for my CD transport and Platforms for both pre-amp and amp. It’s possible to upgrade my vibration isolation with Townshend products. I’ve been using the wonderful Seismic Sink under my terrible non-isolating VPI TNT VI for 17 years (pump it 5 pumps every six weeks-no big deal).

 

I finally figured out how to post a picture.  This picture shows my spring platforms that I made for my speakers which I now use on my HT subwoofers.  Trickle down.

Late as usual, but a great discussion. 

@tonywinga, to take your great advice and experience (all around) a step further, I was dissatisfied with the high constant rate of the Nobsound springs. I went and found matching springs with about half constant rate (9.3lbs/inch I think) and bought a hundred. On very lightweight items I use one spring per Nobsound unit, and only three units (tripod) for only 3 total springs.

I was unconsciously trying to keep the gaps as small as possible like you recommend at .1", just so the thing can flex up and down a tiny bit only. Today I read up more and now 'get it'. I wanted 'soft and floating' for it all, slow to settle.

Now my Nobsound springs are used for three subs and I still don't need that many in each. I only used the lighter after-market and as few springs per component as possible for that tiny gap. I have eight components gently floating now.

I loved your description of speaker platforms and have been semi-engineering the springs I'd need for 110lb speakers and home-built platform. Just a bit scared of the speakers going down if not planned exactly right. It is the final frontier for finishing off my gear, and will probably yield the single most benefit if done correctly.

 

 

@constantin1970, I have them under my big Tannoys. I think sticking to the floor (creating a suction) is how they are supposed to work. 

Oh yeah. Thanks for the correction.  I was listening to The Who just the other day. 

@tonywinga

A couple of years ago I watched a Peter Townsend video demonstrating his speaker platforms

That would be surprising. Pete Townshend is the guitarist for the Who. The gentleman who made the Podiums was Max. No relation. https://hifiplus.com/articles/max-townshend-a-personal-tribute/

Hilde:

Added Gaia Ii to my Dynaudio C60s and the difference in midrange and bass was remarkable. I use the spikey pads on carpet over concrete. Do it!

I have the Oreas under my Turntable platform.  They do some isolating but mostly dampen vibrations.  Works good for my Sota turntable.  (Putting a second set of spring footers under a Sota is not a good idea.  The double spring system would be unstable.)  I tried the Nobsound footers both directly under my preamps and DAC and on platforms that the preamps and DAC sit on.  I found that better because the feet on my equipment are designed to dampen vibrations.  You can see them on my system page.

Remember to tune the footers to your equipment by using as few springs as possible for each footer.  If you are in-between- ie one less spring is too little and one more spring is too much, don't be afraid to add a mass to your component to increase the load.  The lower the spring rate, the lower the natural frequency of the system.  Fewer springs gives a lower system spring rate.  Lower is better.  And the higher the mass, the lower the natural frequency.

Have you heard of or tried Herbies Isolation Pods/Pucks? 
I did some testing with them and without: nothing incredible but they did at least affect and improve a few specific Frequencies from my loudspeakers when I used them underneath.  Also noticed they helped kill about 1/2 of a noise/distortion issue I have with a couple very micro-phonic pre-amp tubes.  I don't think they are 'better than' Gaia (which I think also have actual solid real world room speaker and turntable measurements), but they are really affordable, and the owner of the company is VERY communicative.  
 

 

@hilde45,  if you do get the Towshend units please share your findings here.

@tonywinga, I ordered a set of nobsound  to compare with IsoAcoustics Oreas I have had in place under my Wadia DAC and an Oppo for a year, so am now familiar with the effect they are having on the sound of some components. Should  be interesting.

Ok, my last sentence is not a comment about open baffle speakers; but it could be...

What I have noticed is that my old Thiel speakers which had the mineral front baffles were totally inert on that face but vibrations could be felt on the sides and back of the speaker cabinets. That tells me the speakers were transmitting vibrations from the cabinet bottom through the spikes to the floor and some amount of vibration reflecting back into the cabinets. So the Gaias which both dampen and isolate seem to me to improve the sound of the speakers by both isolating the speakers from the floor and damping reflections that would otherwise go back into the cabinets. The Wilson speakers are remarkably inert on every surface. Totally dead no matter the loudness they are playing. And yet they still transmit vibrations to the floor through their spikes as well. Perhaps the energy must go out of the cabinets somewhere. I find the Gaia Titans remarkably effective on my Wilson speakers. I would like to hear them with the new Wilson isolation spikes but my curiosity has limits. I have no doubt the Wilson isolation spikes would be an improvement. Their material development knowledge is remarkable when considering they can build an entirely inert speaker cabinet.

I think any speaker will benefit by isolation from the floor but the tonal qualities of the speaker might be altered, as I found with my Thiels and so some amount of dampening (damping) might be needed to go along with the isolation. That’s likely something to be solved on a case by case basis. Some of us engineer types are able to come up with some good homemade solutions, but I have to give credit to the entrepreneurs who develop a product for the market that has to work 90% of the time on a wide range of applications- sometimes great and sometimes not. Some people like hang gliding. Some of us like the security of an enclosed cabin.

 

Ok, so this is the post where I eat some of my words. I’ve been reading your posts, and others, and watching videos about the Townshend podium. I really like my speakers enough to try to bring out their best qualities. From what I am reading and seeing. -- e.g., here: https://youtu.be/IvTrtMmrfE4?t=1088 there’s a lot that could be gained by a profoundly isolated speaker. If it all does nothing, well, shipping is a small price to pay to really know that.

The other thing I am thinking is that I’m not really going to be ready to go to a "next" level speaker for a while, in part because I really think these speakers are quite a great value and match very very well even with my lower powered tubes and subs. My next speakers are going to be at least 2x or 3x my current pair, and I’m not ready to go there, yet.

With the Townshends, I can try do a real comparison with the spikes or even some Gaia.

The other thing a podium could do -- if it works well -- is know that I can move my speaker into my next (new) room (which has a wood floor on some cork over concrete) without worrying about how the speakers will sound in there. Or to a room upstairs (over suspended wood).

I’m almost over my reluctance to try the Townshends.

I'll add that when you use the Nobsound spring footers on your components, they need to be tuned to maximize the isolation.  Do that by using only enough springs in each footer to have about a 0.100" gap when under load.  So the footers are still floating- don't let them be grounded under load but provide the lowest Fn possible. My preamps, for example are heaviest in the front where the transformers sit, so I have one more spring in those front footers vs the footers in the back.

Thank you.  Unfortunately, I have not found $1 solutions but the spring platforms for my Thiel speakers were pretty reasonable.  The price of 8 springs and two butcher blocks was not too costly.  I designed the springs for the load of my speakers and the spring rate to achieve a Fn= 3 Hz and ordered them from McMasterCarr..  I counter drilled the butcher blocks to a depth to leave just a small amount of travel when loaded and to support the springs so they remain vertical.  I also stuffed some foam inside the springs for damping and added rubber feet.  I used the same springs on my amp stands to isolate the amps from the floor.  My amps are beasts but not quite as heavy as the Thiels so the Fn (resonance point) is about 3.5 Hz.  I bought the Nobsound spring footers online.  These are clever little devices that are perfect for stereo components.  These footers hold up to 7 small springs which allows you to tune them for the weight of the component that you are isolating.  These are inexpensive but very effective.   

Now, like I said before, out of curiosity I bought the Gaia footers for my Thiel speakers to try them out.  While they did not perfectly isolate the speakers from the floor like my tuned spring platforms, they did improve the sound of the speakers.  Enough so that I kept them and put my spring platforms on my HT subwoofers.  Wow, did that make quite a difference.  Life begins when you isolate your subwoofers.  

So last summer I bought me a pair of Wilson Sasha DAW speakers.  They sound good.  They come with the Wilson spikes which I used.  Wilson now offers their version isolation spikes made from their X material.  I have no doubt that they are effective but they are an additional 10% cost of the Sasha DAW speakers.  Therefore, I bit the bullet and bought a set of Gaia Titans.  If you think buying the Gaias hurts- try getting a set of their Titans.  The Wilsons will give you all the bass you want.  I could feel it in the floor even after set up per the Wilson method.  I found the Gaia Titans improved clarity and imaging.  The floor doesn't vibrate like before with the spikes but the furniture, pictures and windows still shake and rattle. I had to put sticky tack on all of my pictures to keep them from rattling.  

@tonywinga, good post. May I ask what you use under your components and speakers. I'm hoping you'll say rubber pads that cost $1 each on amazon 😀 

Spikes affect the sound. I have heard it firsthand. I used spikes on my Thiel speakers for years. I could hear the difference between the speakers sitting on the floor vs on spikes. Imaging improved. But when I put my speakers on tuned spring platforms it took them to another level. The same thing happened when I put my amps and preamps on tuned spring platforms. In fact, the increase in detail and resolution was so great that at first it was distracting me from the music. I could hear hum in mic cables, talking, footfalls- things I had not heard before in recordings. I almost put things back to the way they were before, but I finally adjusted to the new level of resolution and transparency. I can’t go back now that I have heard what tuned isolation can do. I no longer have anything resting on spikes.

Spikes do not isolate. They might sink vibrations or whatever the claim is but using an accelerometer I do not see any real change in vibration levels myself. Springs isolate and rubber dampens. Just look at a car suspension. It is a combination of springs and dampers- rubber and viscous dampers.

Funny thing is being an engineer I still went along with the prevailing winds. Since I could hear a difference with my speakers on spikes I assumed spikes were a good thing for all of my stereo gear. Why did I check my engineer brain at the door for so long, I wonder. For example, back in 1979 I was shopping for my first turntable. I remember looking at a Philips belt drive and a Garrard DD turntable. The Philips had a suspended table while the Garrard was fixed. But the bouncy Phillips looked so 1960s to me while the Garrard looked nice and modern. It wasn’t until 1992 when I brought home my first Sota Turntable that I realized how important isolation was to the sound. Even then I did not think to apply that principle to my other gear using mainly Sorbothane pucks for damping.

It is not a simple solution. Spikes impact the sound of components, isolation and damping are effective but like room dampening- too much of a good thing is bad. I learned that first hand too. Even my Sota Turntable can be sensitive to the type of platform it rests on regardless of its remarkable isolation. I learned that as well. One thing about the audio hobby- anyone who assumes to be an expert and scoffs at the various tweaks and setup configurations be it mechanical or electrical will almost certainly be humbled at some point.

@hilde45,  Hey  OP:    "Beyond that, the audiophile world has been misled as to their purpose"    Yes because as in most areas of commerce where there is a buck to be made it's climb on the bandwagon. 

I understand your reluctance to spend on something that does not appear to make sense when comparing it to the price of your speakers. How about: buy once, cry once.  I am trying to convince myself of this very quote. I bought Gaias after some poster convinced me by stating they were a poor man's Townshend device 😉

Anyone with a mild interest in audio and an awareness of the market could not help notice that easy to manufacture and with little to no understanding of the principle involved can produce a HIFI stand, complete with obligatory spikes. Witness the plethora of stands with spikes on offer.

Some of these amplifier stands/platforms on spikes are beautifully made and very attractive. I have seen photos of racks that I think most enthusiasts would love to have their gear on. With everyone and their uncle who owns a milling machine and lathe able to produce spikes from basic to exquisite it comes as no surprise that spike-momentum endures. A search on amazon shows what is available in the more budget market.

I am not saying that some of these component stands do not help, just that there are better ways of addressing the problem. I have long been dissatisfied with Gaias and the title of this thread attracted me, hoping to find positive results with something other than the annoyingly ubiquitous spikes.

The search continues  🙄

 

My system is on a concrete slab floor with a fairly thick carpet/pad. My components are in a massive salamander cabinet with source components on IsoAcoustic pucks and my preamp and monoblocks on maple plinths. My speakers, Dali Mentor 6s, were on spikes. Still, when I put them on GAIA IIIs I heard a significant improvement in resolution and sound staging. It may have been that the Dali spikes weren’t really long enough to penetrate the pad and carpet, but the improvemt with GAIAs is real.

In our former house, the system was on wooden floors—the speakers were on spikes there, but the speakers sound better with the GAIAs on carpet, if my memory serves me. 

Also interesting, making some case for spikes (suitably tested on a particular setup): 

"By having spikes on the base of the stand (as illustrated in diagram 1) we allow the speaker stand to ‘grip’ the floor under the carpet. As a result, we can expect the spikes to reduce how much the speaker and stand wobble around, particularly at low frequencies. Unwanted vibrations or shaking of the speaker box and stand at low frequencies could then be reduced. By holding the speaker more firmly we may alter or assist its ability to radiate low frequencies. In addition, the floor may now act as a secondary radiator or medium to convey sound vibrations to the listener. Hence spikes under a stand may well have an effect we can sense, not because they “isolate” vibrations, but for precisely the opposite reason! To do so, however, they need to effectively penetrate through the carpet so the stand can grip the floor underneath.

What the above can’t tell us, of course, is whether any changes produced by such spikes will be judged to make the resulting sound “better” or “worse” – or even if the changes will be noticeable. That will be a matter of individual circumstances and the personal preferences of the listener. There are various reasons for this. One example is that, in some cases, the movement on the springy carpet might help damp out higher-frequency resonances in the stand more effectively than being gripped by the floor. Matter of circumstances which might be judged ‘best’ for changing the performance in the way the individual user might prefer."
https://www.audiomisc.co.uk/cones/speak.html

@lemonhaze Some very helpful conclusions from your article. I quote:

 

Spikes came about in the early days of wall to wall carpeting to prevent the cabinets from dancing around by anchoring it to the underlying wood. Beyond that, the audiophile world has been misled as to their purpose. Rigid coupling feet will operate and perform the same function as the bridge does in coupling the strings to the soundboard of any string instrument.

In summary

• Rigid feet couple vibrations
• Vibration is a two-way street
• Spikes cannot drain energy to a heavier mass
• A small contact point actually amplifies vibrations
• Spikes cannot reduce internally generated cabinet vibrations
• Question one-size-fits-all and no lab report devices
• Isolation means the mechanical path is either broken, or the form of energy is converted to another form
• Properly designed isolation is predictable, repeatable, and neutral in performance
• Isolation will offer clarity that cannot be experienced with coupling, because with coupling comes additional, unwanted vibrations
• Isolation is easy to perceive
• Vibration transmissibility is easily measured

Ginko Audio has some budget friendly speaker vibration control. They cost less than $400 for my speakers….the Isoacoustics for my speakers would cost me over $1500

@whiznant 

 isolation platforms not only help eliminate the floor form adding to the sound but also vibration getting back to the speaker, especially with concrete floors. The vibrations have no where to go but back into the speaker.

That comment, especially the bold part, has really helped me see why the "concrete floor" factor is not the end of the story. Thank you! I suppose I figured that the floor was so inert, it wouldn't resonate in sympathy with the speakers -- and indeed it would not. But the vibrations coming from the speaker is the key, and thank you for pointing that out in a way that made sense to me.

@sokogear Thank you for your recommendation. It's hard to believe a platform that inexpensive is out there as a solution. I appreciate it.

@lemonhaze I deeply respect your opinion and experience. I will read the link you provided and seriously consider the platforms. It defies my economic common sense to spend that much but you're making a salient pitch, here.