The Boston Mat 2.
Removed. Sent it back. Relief.
Removed. Sent it back. Relief.
Tweaks you got rid of because they were not effective (enough)?
There are some audiophiles for whom cost is no object; they buy what they wish and every single tweak and gadget which promises to improve the sound. And the industry is all too happy to produce such tweaks -- often made of expensive materials with elaborate engineering explanations. Those who question the value of these tweaks are frequently accused of being "naysayers" who are either too ignorant or insensate to realize that "everything matters."
Of course, money spent one place cannot be spent elsewhere; expenditures on tweaks take the place of other more central factors affecting the sound. In some cases, those tweaks are worth it; you can hear the difference, and that $400 (or whatever) really could not have improved your speakers or sub or amp, etc.
So, the question here is simple: Which tweak have you tried which, after some experience and reflection, you realized was either *not* effective or not the most effective way to improve your system?
Of course, money spent one place cannot be spent elsewhere; expenditures on tweaks take the place of other more central factors affecting the sound. In some cases, those tweaks are worth it; you can hear the difference, and that $400 (or whatever) really could not have improved your speakers or sub or amp, etc.
So, the question here is simple: Which tweak have you tried which, after some experience and reflection, you realized was either *not* effective or not the most effective way to improve your system?
123 responses Add your response
Probably mass loading components, but I may have gone a tad overboard... Here’s a pic of the previous system (since replaced due to tweaking it). https://www.culture24.org.uk/asset_arena/8/71/06/360178/v0_master.jpg Sorry, but this pic (in context to mass loading) never get’s old to me. DeKay |
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I have many tweaks that worked but these ones that did not: - expensive feet under amps, CD players and DACs (Unlike under speakers where they have had a big effect, and under the Hi-Fi rack, again a positive effect). - external clocks - crystals, anywhere - raising cables above floor - gutwire grounding cable (other grounding systems have worked) - Bass traps - power conditioners |
hilde45: Yes, sad but true... We've been without Internet, much of the past 3 days, due to AT&T's incompetence so... Aside from dealing with AT&T "help" who have admitted that they did not even know what a "land line" is we have been otherwise shielded from daily news. TV-wise we limit ourselves (and rightly so) to reruns of MacGyver, Stargate SG1 and Kolchak the Night Stalker. DeKay |
I LOVE the question from the original OP! Frankly, experience over years has taught me that auditory hallucinations abound, undergirded by shameful, greedy marketing. To wit - "I know what I heard - and I promise you the $20K, 3-foot speaker cable on cryogenically frozen risers sounds better!" Smart, sophisticated people become infantile science deniers spouting absolute alchemic bunk as if it's fact and then go on the attack towards the physics-educated "non-believers" among us who don't sign on. Their typical narrative - our systems are substandard, our hearing is flawed, etc., etc. Now that my rant is out of the way, I agree that the right, complementary components are key. Upgraded components generally upgrade the sound. Different combinations of different components (Tube, SS, etc.) offer different "flavors" and that's all about individual tastes and preferences. Paying attention to equipment specs and that which can be objectively measured is certainly worthwhile. Room conditions, sound dampening etc. - all sound physics and worth paying attention to. Cleaning up some power supplies (or combinations thereof) to eliminate extraneous noise has also helped in my experience. I have always loved this hobby for the MUSIC. Unfortunately, so many of my audiophile (audiofool) brethren have been totally distracted from that essence by dressed up lies designed to separate one from their cash. |
@tbakin It’s always good to have a reality check with one’s self about whether one hears a difference or not. I’m glad you enjoyed the question I posed; there are so many debates over these products and phenomena that I wanted to try just to elicit a list from people of what they decided, for themselves, were just not helping. It’s likely that none of the answers here can add up to anything like an objective answer, given the range of different equipment, rooms, ears, and tastes involved. But some patterns will probably emerge, patterns which may provide at least a pretext for some of us to try something, avoid something, or do some interesting experiments for ourselves. |
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Good post! I have tried and owned many of the “best” Cables on the market, done blind tests with friends. Seriously, if we’re all being honest. I have friends that have some of the best stuff on the planet, and they literally picked the 100 dollar cables, power cords, etc. at least 50% of the time. Even if the stuff specs out better on measuring equipment, you just really can’t tell the difference!. 15,000 for a pair of cables? Come on man! |
@mijostyn, ’cd318, surely you jest. I’ve heard some amazing looking systems at Hi Fi shows.’ Yes, I have too. The most memorable being the Avantgarde Trio based one, but you must have heard some real bad ones too! The ones where you’re compelled to embarrassingly leave the demo room after a few minutes, if not seconds. Hmm, there’s an idea, maybe demonstrators might want to consider leaving some feedback sheets. It must be demoralising to have to watch folks keep on hurriedly leaving your uber expensive decked out room all day. @mahgister, ’Any system at any price must be put in a controlled mechanical dimension, in a controlled electrical field, and in a controlled acoustical environment... This is what i call an embedding...’ I don’t think anyone is arguing with that in principle. Surely it’s only a question of degree. |
@mahgister,You are right nobody can argue against this.... I put together these 3 dimensions and called that "embeddings"... To my surprise in all audio threads in all forums, no one has a concept about that, they speak about "tweaks" yes....But a "tweak" is a partial solution and sometimes a trade-off with negative effects, and above all a tweak is vulnerable to placebo effect the day of their evaluation .... But a trail of listenings experiments, with incremental improvement in the 3 embedding dimensions each weeks for 2 years like mine, i would not call that "Tweaks", i called that embeddings controls installation....Embeddings controls are NOT secondary addition to the system, like "tweaks", they are the MAIN object of an audiophile pursuit... Choosing an electronic component is important, but embedding it rightly is at least at the same level of priority.... My point is any relatively good basic audio system sound at his utmost potential S.Q. ONLY if rightly embedded... My other point is UPGRADING anything before listening first to the truest potential of what we already own is most of the times illusion and deception programmed... My last point is the embedding process is NOT a secondary tweaking, but is the fundamental course to take in audio experience, most important than ANY upgrade of an electronic component....If you want to know what you are doing without throwing money to the universal hyped advertisement campaings in all forums.... Audio is not about the "taste" for a product among the millions there are, it is about how to learn to listen music and sounds..... My regards to all.... « It is not enough to see what we hears, we must listen with our eyes»- Groucho Marx |
Audio Sensibility grounding devices. Didn't hear a whit of difference. https://audiosensibility.com/blog/products-2/grounding-devices-2/ |
-1, for Vibrapods. Bought the ones that were recommended for my components, by weight. Within a week; half had flattened to nothing, Contacted Vibrapod, via email (twice), politely describing the problem and never heard back. That was over 15 years ago, so: no chi-com virus excuse, for the lack of response. Really; no excuse, except they know they're junk. |
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For example unused wall plugs in your audio room are part of the electrical grid of your house.... Putting some device on them ( some sell their devices and i create mine) is only a step in controlling the electrical grid noise floor of the house...."a controlled electrical field". "embedding" I would had better wrote " electrical grid noise floor controls".... But anyway what i speak about is clear.... The word "embedding" is for describing the way any audio part is immersed and connected to all the electrical grid of the house and more.... Thanks for the correction.... |
Audio is not about the "taste" for a product among the millions there are, it is about how to learn to listen music and sounds.....
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>. Well I'll say this, you have YOUR ideas about, what it is to be an audiofiler. I like model railroading to, that hobby goes from "taking pictures" to electrical, to "SOUND", to paint and finish, landscape, mini, MAXY, copper, silver, nickel/silver, brass, plastic, cast, portable, fixed, ect,ect,ect. A LOT of the model railroader I know, don't even have a layout, or a single, PART. Maybe just pics... Sometime the audiofile journey is MORE than just HIGH QUALITY sound, it is the very small parts, that make up our VERY diverse community. Someday I'll go deaf, blind, whatever, will I still be an audiofiler? TO THE GRAVE.. I think? My cousins can't hear a thing... They love to dance, and be around music. Can't hear a thing... Pure feel.... They won't wear rubber sole shoes to the dance, LOL messes with the music, my cousin says...LOL Tweaks..... The next door neighbor finally moved.. "Tweaker, away" Long live the hearing aid...I wish batteries were included.. Eye glasses aren't far behind..."Tweaks that QUIT working".. Glasses broke, yesterday... :-) Definite chicken feedin' time... Regards |
oldhvymec I had try to be clear about my way to see this hobby.... But you are right, the world is more vast than the way we see it each one of us.... My best regards to you.... |
To my surprise in all audio threads in all forums, no one has a concept about that, they speak about "tweaks" yes....But a "tweak" is a partial solution and sometimes a trade-off with negative effects, and above all a tweak is vulnerable to placebo effect the day of their evaluation Yes, well, of course. The word tweak already implies it's not the whole solution. I mean, who'd think *that*? No disrespect meant to your theories and conclusions, it's just that you're correcting a mistake that no one is making, and then going into a lot of detail about ALL the things that are involved. It feels a bit patronizing. |
No disrespect meant to your theories and conclusions, it’s just that you’re correcting a mistake that no one is making, and then going into a lot of detail about ALL the things that are involved. It feels a bit patronizing.I understand what you say....But it is difficult for me to think you are completely right, because that mistake you say nobody is doing is pervasive in all audio threads... Who amongst all here , how many knowns by experience, that there is NO comparison at all between an audio system before and after a rightful embeddings installation controls in the 3 dimensions? I apologize if i seems to patronize, but my reading of audio forums in the last 7 or 8 years to create my audio system, persuade me that the majority of people really think that buying a new piece of electronic equipment is the main way to create audio heaven..... Nevermind what i just said, i understand that my posts can annoy some and i apologize for that....But the truth is my rant adress a real problem also....It is my only excuse for ranting.... My best regards to you OP.... |
Well, upon urging from some on this thread, I just lifted my speaker cables off the floor (tile and carpet) using wooden blocks about an inch across and two inches high, four blocks per side. I listened, put the blocks under the cables, listened again, took the blocks out, and listened again. I did not hear any difference. |
I have tried a number of tweaks over the years but few have remained in my system. They might sound good one day and sound worse the next. The ones that have survived are based on sound Engineering concepts like resonance and vibration control. Also, sometimes a tweak to address problem A introduces problem B. A good example of this is the use of ferrite cores on power cords. They do reduce the amount of RF coming in on the AC supply but, unfortunately, increase the AC source impedance as seen by the device. Power amps (and integrated amps) are susceptible and may become current-starved during dynamic conditions with a negative effect on sound quality. |
No comment on Vibrapods’ efficacy, but the nasty residue can be prevented by placing a piece of plastic sandwich baggie between the Vibrapod and surface. Same with sorbothane. Perhaps Vibrapods are made of sorbothane?I'm pretty sure that's exactly what they are. I put some construction paper between them and components, but only after they left stains on one of my components. I stopped using them. I've had better luck using hockey pucks. |
A word about the "alleged" or "disproved" effect of a tweak... The audible effect of "tweak" will vary greatly if the tweak is implemented in an already controlled environment or not... I will not discuss here the relative hability in each of us relative to our listening experience and possibility that may impact also the alleged absence or presence of audibles effects... I will only speak about the big difference the addition of a device control or of a tweak in a controlled environment OR in a non controlled one... I will give an example about the acoustic room embedding.... A single piece of aluminum paper 1 feet 1/2 feet by 3 feet long, placed at the right spot in a controlled acoustical embedding may change drastically the S.Q. of a specific room, I know because i just do that today for the better in my room.... But if someone glued the same piece of aluminum paper in a non controlled acoustical environment, a nude room, the perceived positive or negative effect audible effect will probably be negligible...It will be the samething if the sheet is glued to a different treated room or to a different spot....I*n these cases the effect can be negative or negligible also... The same thing is true if the audio system three embeddings are controlled in some way, the addition of some new device or tweak or materials will be more easily audible negatively or positively.... Then before formulating definitive judgment about a product, ask yourself why the product produce this or that effect in YOUR audio system first, before condemning it at all and definitively.... Another example: i bought springs boxes (chinese version of Nobsound one) At first it seems a very good improvement from my own multi-layered sandwich platform and it was....But it is a positive improvement only if you adjust the compressing force on the springs very precisely... I do it... But after few days i realized that this isolation device dont adress the problem of internal resonance of the speaker and that the springs boxes also imply a kind of trade off... I decide to make something new with these springs...I put another set of springs on top of my speakers under the load (75 pounds) that damp the speakers...That create an asymmetry in the compressing force of the 2 set of boxes, those under the speakers and those on top... The compressing force is greater on the springs boxes directly under the speaker because the speaker weight is added to them.... Then this asymmetry help to decrease the powerful negative unsuspected effect of internal resonance of the speaker.... The results were astounding, it was not only the bass frequencies and high frequencies that were better now, it was the naturalness of the timbre and the 3-d imaging power.... Then any addition of a device or of a "tweak" is perceived differently in different controlled or non controlled environment, and judge differently.... And most tweaks are not a perfect solution but give us a trade-off, then to increase the positive effect, it is necessary to create a better controlled environment making us able to DETECT first the positive or negative nature of any change and make us able to MANAGE the trade-off....And tweak are there to be modified and improved also.... This is my experience... My best to all.... |
One thing that has always worked in improving the sound has been buying more expensive equipment. I have not tried as many things as some here, but aside from changing the room (furniture placement and numbers, rugs, etc.) nothing else made a difference. Cables (power, USB, speaker) did nothing for sound, but surely made it neater, once appropriate lengths were chosen. |
No comment on Vibrapods’ efficacy, but the nasty residue can be prevented by placing a piece of plastic sandwich baggie between the Vibrapod and surface. Same with sorbothane. Perhaps Vibrapods are made of sorbothane? I have sorbothane hemisphere rubber bumpers under my speakers. They are sticky and would leave a residue. Just wrap them in clear plastic food wrap! |
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@hilde45...
Spikes were OK but the big improvement happened by placing cheap granite kitchen chopping boards under the speakers and then Isoacoustic Gaia feet under the speakers, resting on the granite. This made a massive improvement to bass and the overall sound image. |
Plane and simple. Better equipment will give you better sound quality. BETTER, MORE GOOD. Has nothing to do with cost.. BUT GREAT equipment will cost you more.. Unless you have a rich uncle, that gives it to you.. First rule... The best equipment you can afford. Don't start at the bottom and work up. Start at the top and work down. This includes cabling. Everything I use in my systems require NO cable upgrades, factory will work fine.. Speaker IC, XLR, RCA, good will work. Nothing too fancy.. First rule... As much room treatment as you can afford, or tolerate (if your gonna use a room) First rule...Protect your expensive equipment, maintain 120 VAC and a FAST acting surge suppressor. (Clean the AC source...Maintain the source) First rule...place you equipment and measure with a tape measure, then make MINOR adjustments. TWEAKS, what's left? Most of it sounds good one day and not the next to me... WHY? Well, the ol mechanic comes out in me... "That was BS", Cable risers work though.... Easy to clean under, and they do actually work, just takes a couple hours for me to hear the difference.. I knock a block over and don't see it, then stand up the riser. After a settling time. I hear the difference.. ANY vibration control is good. Over dampen a room.. A problem in a LOT of rooms... Regards |
Almost all tweaks have been abandoned. What has worked for me: Funk Firm turntable mat. OCC single crystal cable, van den Hul carbon is just as good, also no crystal structure. I have had a very positive result from a better than cheap power cord on one and only one piece of equipment. I use it on everything now but it only made a difference, but it was immediately obvious, on my preamp. I use no other tweaks now. |
As for cable lifters, there are some who've taken measurements and reported it. Roger Skoff explains it here: https://positive-feedback.com/audio-discourse/bunking-cable-lifters/ He noted that the measured capacitance changed every time a speaker cable was lifted, foot by foot, until the entire cable was off the floor. He goes onto explaining why a floor becomes part of the capacitance equation and needs to be addressed. All the best, Nonoise |
From the article: "Given the magnitude of the difference in capacitance between a cable fully suspended and one flat on the ground, it’s unlikely that the frequency response change will be great (or possibly even audible), but there will certainly be some change." Roger Skoff seems to be making more of an academic argument than a practical one. I think that the layers of dielectric and shielding in my speaker cables are sufficient to make any current dumping from my carpet insignificant, to me. I would not say that people don’t hear improvements in sound by using cable lifters, I’m sure some people do hear real improvements. I didn’t though. |
I just want to touch upon tweaks that did nothing or were bad, not equipment or cabling which I do not consider tweaks Green pens for CDs (did nothing?)/Use Walker Talisman instead Ferrite cores on speaker cables and power cords-sometimes worse Magico Q-Pod isolation devices, out of 11 different vibration devices, these would have been the most expensive and just made the sound like molasses-super yuk under every piece of equipment. Advertised to blacken the sound. It certainly does that, and slooooows it down. Auditioned only. I use lots of Stillpoints, Townsend and a Buckwheat pillow instead. Synergistic Research Black Box-no matter where in the room I placed it with 32 HFTs, it cut the highs above 8K (not just "cleaned up" the sound but cut off it's head). Gave it back. Sorbothane like vibrapod circles used positively (sorry) for speaker cable lifters above 90 oz. nylon carpet. 5% improvement for bupkis. PPT anywhere there are magnets. I still use the Omega E Mats and a few A/C caps where there are no magnets (power panels, isolation transformer and crossover area at rear of speaker). PPT works great otherwise in moderation for my system. Easy to overdue though in my system, works great in my friends system (no magnets). That's what I remember for now. |
Great thread, great subject! I’ve tried numerous tweaks over the past 35 years.. there seems to be a tweak “epiphany” every several years.. and have I’ve found, to ME, in my systems, nothing that has made a difference in sound that has compared to the level of difference I’ve heard/experienced with: changing speakers, changing speaker positioning, treating the room, changing amplifiers, or changing phono cartridges (roughly in that order). Things I’ve tried and abandoned include: CD green marker and stabilizing rings, various platforms and feet under components/speakers, expensive cables of all types, expensive fuses, contact enhancers on cables/tube pins, weights, brass screws, little doo dads placed around the room/on windows/on shelves, trying different component locations on the rack shelf, lifting cables off the floor, power conditioners/AC purifiers, and likely many more I can’t remember at the moment. To be clear; some of the things mentioned did make an audible “difference”, but the difference I heard was deemed (by Me) to be more work, or more money, than the perceived improvement was worth... if the difference was even an improvement at all, and not a detriment. I typically have several systems set up around the house, and I try the things I try on most of them to see if the tweak is system dependent. It sometimes is. BUT... Speaker placement makes it easy to hear differences, speaker selection is very easy to hear differences, trying different amps on the same speakers in the same system is almost as easy to hear as trying different speakers. Tweaks that DO work are noticeable, and enhance the sound a bit, but I haven’t tried one that made me think; “Wow! I can’t listen to my music without this!” Just my experience, and I’m blissfully content to not spend a lot of money on gizmos. I’ll try anything though.. just in case! |
