This is an excellent line up, and very similar to the lineup I have in mind for a potential upgrade. I'm curious why something further up the Clearaudio line isn't on the list. A Signature or Performance DC Air with Tracer arm would be in budget.
Either way, at this price point you are entering the area where a road trip is solid insurance that you'll be happy with the investment. If you need to buy blindly, I would likely go 1200G. Easy to setup, potentially best resale.
But also I'd imagine no true wrong answers here.
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" no true wrong answers here. "
Agreed.
If anything, the OP might learn of a particular choices' strength/weakness and make the choice on what brand/model will fit the bill.
If VPI is chosen, I'd look at used-there's always good deals in the listings.
Longtime Classic user. VPI ISN'T without its share of shortcomings(in reference to "next level table") but when setup properly it will give a decent slice of SOTA for not too much cash outlay.
VPI Classic 3 TurnTable & 10.5" JMW Memori... For Sale | Audiogon
VPI Industries Classic 2 For Sale | Audiogon
If you were looking for an endgame with a wider wallet, this negotiated for a lower price is what I would go for
VPI Industries HW-40 Limited Edition For Sale | Audiogon
Put a $3-5K cart on an be done with turntable insanity!
The "problem" with something like this, you could get used to performance, and be curious about the "next level"(there ALWAYS is) and now you're too far gone...
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I think VTA on-the-fly is overrated. I had that on my Clearaudio Ovation and found I never used it if I wanted to listen to music. When I upgraded to a Clearaudio Innovation I didn't bother getting the arm board that supports fitting the Clearaudio VTALifter2 (i.e. on-the-fly adjustment) I still have.
The thing is lathes that cut lacquers for LPs aren't even consistent enough to make dynamic VTA useful, unless you plan to set it by ear for every record before playing the record (yeah, that's as painful as it sounds).
The Clearaudio Concept supports adjusting VTA statically when changing cartridges. It's a matter of loosening the bolt that locks the tonearm in the armboard.
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I had a VPI Prime with the 3D Unipivot are and HATED it. I hated it so much that for a year I never used it or played vinyl. I traded it in on a Technics SL 1200G turntable and never looked back. I now play more vinyl than CD’s. The VTA on the fly was a PIA to use as if I did it while the record was playing, the crappy VPI unipivot arm would move or tilt towards one side. Was no fun at all.
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If it's between VIP and Technics, I'd choose VIP 150 times out of 100.
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Thanks all. Yeah, I've heard about the Unipivot tonearm causing some frustration. I'd do the gimballed that should help with that wobbling. Used TTs are tempting but I think I'll stick with new and have a trial period. I'd want to hear how it sounds with my equipment in my room. I don't imagine I'll use the VTA on the fly other than a couple of times, at setup. So maybe that feature isn't so important. That said, I've been leaning VPI, haven't heard anything compelling to push me elsewhere, Unipivot aside.
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One of the main things I had found out when searching for an analog rig was that there are many avenues to explore to get great sound. I am not anti direct drive nor am I anti belt drive (as these systems seem to be the main ones) Also I am not light TT is better than heavy. Floating suspension is better than…. ? There are many very good designs and it’s really up to the individual. For instance I just bought a belt drive with Unipivot tonearm and like the on the fly VTA. I have never liked motors built into the plinth nor light turntables…. but that’s me. Technics makes a great TT and so does VPI and so does Rega and Well Tempered and Denon and Pro-ject and Thorens and Nottingham, Audio Technica, Fluance and many others. For some maybe “set and forget” is an easier solution. Let’s not forget that whatever you spend on a TT you must ALSO get the best cartridge and phono preamplifier as well. Those two additional pieces can make or break your TT choice.
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I currently have a VPI Signature 21 (w/FatBoy Gimbal), ADS, and the VPI Peripheral Ring. Really great combo (currently used with a Lyra Kleos SL).
In three years of use, I’ve never used the VTA on the fly. I suppose it’s good to have if one is so inclined.
Just got a new table myself (awaiting arm), but really have enjoyed the VPI quite a bit. If you were to go with a VPI Classic, you may want to look into the Sota Eclipse/VPI setup as a future upgrade. Also would highly recommend the Peripheral ring...pricey but worth it (to me).
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I love my VPI ....have a Superscoutmaster/upgraded VPI arm/Super platter, 2nd pivot on arm, Winfield cart. SDS, spikes under feet, peripheral ring / spindle weight.....never had any problem with it....sounds great.
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I’m very content with my Dohmann Helix One Mk2
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Technics 1200G is a safe choice, but if you can stretch your budget, I'd certainly look at Luxman PD-151. I have the PD-171 which is the predecessor of PD-191, and it's really a lifetime TT for me. Buy once and save money and energy instead of incremental upgrades that never end.
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Agree with tablejockey on the VPI. I currently own VPI Classic 3 Sig SE. It can sound really good with a lot of attention. That's why I wouldn't recommend it among your options.
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Dear @drbond : Yes , your Dohmann Helix is an excellent TT that outperforms any of the other TTs named here but is at the same time a lot more expensive.
Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.
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who will set up your new TT? verify pivot distance and overhang is done right? check/verify all is well periodically? change optional headshell/cartridges or future MC stylus re-build? set tracking weight, azimuth, vta, anti-skate?
I strongly encourage you (everyone) to get the few tools and practice NOW until confident doing it yourself. Read your manual, the ability to adjust is there, they just assign the responsibility to the dealer.
arm height ’on the fly’, is very nice, but not needed, and you might find you are not comfortable with your steadiness in any case, I find features are one thing, but implementation varies, and that mixes with my unique physical steadiness. you can always raise the arm, adjust height a spec, check with mirror and perhaps a pair of mini-levels, ears
tool free arm height adjustment is a definite plus
I verify the tonearm is level when playing, to my ears, that's good enough, I don't seek perfection, I don't hear obvious differences nearly as much as I do when I refine azimuth, and I use the blank side LP method to see the actual force on the arm while listening to content with specific l/c/r imaging. Clearaudio's anti-skating, MM one turn, MC two turn of a screw is blind, I find no providing user adjustments insulting actually.
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don't forget: dust cover!!!!!
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I am not sure why you can not adjust the VTA by yourself. The screw holding the tonearm base is easily accessible.
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As the owner of both VPI and Technics TTs perhaps I can lend some perspective. Right up front you can't make a bad decision here, you are considering great turntables. I have a VPI HW40 sitting next to an SL1200GAE. Generally the former is set up for stereo and the latter for mono, but I switch up depending on cartridges, SUT and mood. The VPI does sound better, there should be no surprise there, you get what you pay for, but it is no where near as easy to set up. The GAE is much easier to set up, change cartridges, that sort of thing. It is a record collector first choice TT because you don't ever have to futz with it. They are both rock steady in terms of speed, wow, flutter etc. as in no difference at all. So my advice to you is to know yourself first. Once set up, both TT are stable, they don't go out of adjustment, but if you like to change things up, like switch cartridges often, go for the Technics. If you are really after the maximum sound quality chances are good you will be happier with the VPI.
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Thank for all the responses. I plan to have the vendor, probably upscale audio, do the majority of the setup. They have a guy who mounts cartridges five days a week. @billstevenson I really do appreciate your perspective. I am more interested in better sound quality and don't foresee a need to switch up cartridges. More or less set it and forget it. The only possible setting change is VTA when going from thicker to thinner vinyl. And this is TBD. I'll set the VTA once for each thickness, record the settings and see if it makes a difference.
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@gickcf Re VTA, I bought a VPI super prime scout with SoundSmith Zephyr cart for exactly that reason from Upscale. I could not hear an iota of difference even with massive changes. Before spending money on VTA, check whether you can hear it. If you can go to upscale, ask them to demonstrate it; however, be advised, when I asked them for a demo (whether or not different plinth make a difference), they flat out refused. Maybe a single TT is easier to deal with.
I ditched the VPI and bought a Rega Naia with your same set-and-forget approach. It does sound better, particularly with tighter bass (no idea whether that is plinth or cartridge), and is MUCH less sensitive to vibrations, which I find surprising given that it has basically no isolation feet. Have fun with your new TT.
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I second SOTA as well as Oracle. Oracle makes a mean machine and can be had at reasonable prices used. Easily upgradeable.
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