Good morning . I am looking for suggestions, opinions, and recommendations for a turntable platform for my Transrotor ZET 1? I have been considering the Synergistic Research Tranquility base, HRS, and Symposium? Maybe some others? I would love to get some insight. Thank you.
That's some hella bling you got there. Would look good with a sweet Tranquility Base under it. Only problem, SR made that for EM control not vibration control. Not that it wouldn't work. Just that's not really its thing. Symposium and others pretend to do isolation. Really impossible, ultimately all anything can do is control vibration. Damp, tune. No such thing as isolation.
That table would look good on a BDR Source Shelf. Sound better too. Not sure if they still make em. Music Direct would know. I'd call them.
I agree with @millercarbon on this. Last year I bought a BDR Source Shelf and combined it with BDR cones that sit on BDR carbon fiber isolation pads. The combination works extremely well under my table and I couldn't be happier.
Symposium and others pretend to do isolation. Really impossible, ultimately all anything can do is control vibration. Damp, tune. No such thing as isolation.
>>>>Are you channeling Michael Green again? You don’t even know what isolation is, do you? Remember what the Little Train that Could says, “I think I can, I think I can...” Toot, toot! 🚂
Not sure of budget and size requirements, I have the German company Clearaudio MontBlanc which is no longer made, but it has been the last stand I will ever need for my Transrotor Apollon with three motors and two tonearms. The replacement looks nice and is available from several US retailers. http://https//clearaudio.de/en/_archive/accessories.php
Also, another one is the Copulare audio racks or tonebasen as known in Germany. I have the Aural and Sial series for components and amps. An audio buddy of mine had the top turntable stand called the Mozart, it is nice, but too much avant-garde for my tastes. http://http//www.copulare.de/sial.html
Did you get your Zet in the US? Is the dealer stocked with parts for Transrotor such as belts and spindle oil? Good luck.
If these links don’t work, do a search for the products I mentioned, fairly easy to find. The MontBlanc rack was updated to a newer version which has either a matt black or panzerholz look. Both look nice. I think overture audio has them in their web site. As far as Copulare, not sure who in the US is the distributor. I bought both while stationed in Germany so it was easier for me at the time.
jperry, Is there a reason you apparently believe Herzan platforms are superior to Minus K platforms? So far as I know, Herzan make Minus K, but other than that factoid, which could be erroneous, I'm curious.
The Herzan is active and the Minus K is spring loaded. I use a vibraplane, because I did not like the motion of the minus K. The Herzan takes it to a different level which you need to hear. I would buy one if it was in my price range.
You must be made out of money. $15,000? And those TS-150 stands only isolate one component. Ouch! Double ouch! I can isolate an entire system for about $150 - $200 with 2 Hz performance. Give me a break.
i have -5- Taiko Tana active systems in my system now.
for those too lazy to read that referenced thread, active devices only work when the gear has zero self noise. otherwise the active part will continually sense the self noise and try to attenuate it, which it can’t do and eventually it will burn itself out, as well as not sound very good. most turntables have self noise. zero self noise would be the exception.
the Minus K is not made by Herzan, but can be acquired through them. although it is very difficult to tune as it requires a balancing process. it’s a spring and floats and over-shoots like any passive.
the best all around passive device for turntables is the Stacore shelf. it uses three air bladders and has a solid slate top plate. that is the product most likely dependably right for turntables.
all this information and much more is in that thread.
I always appreciate testimonials for products someone sold
I still have two more NOS boxes and using one set right now myself. This is the best feet on the market, not easy to find. If i will see them i will buy more, but only after the financial situation will be better. Right now i think i will have to sell some stuff , because in my country the government decided not to compensate for recommended isolation after nearly all business is closed down in my town and local currency crashed because of the oil war. Too bad for my hobby.
Mike thanks for your comments and clarification. I followed your thread here as well as your comments on WBF. I can only imagine how great your system must sound with all of the resonance control work you have done.
One word. Springs! Springs for lightweight things, springs for heavy things. Spring is the thing! LIGO the project to observe gravity waves uses passive spring systems so trust me, they’re good enough for audiophiles, too. 🤗 With simple springs you can easily achieve 2 Hz performance.
You could also consider a passive isolation platform such as those made by eg Thor Labs. These can be tuned to have around 0.5 Hz resonant frequency, and cost around $2,000+.
They'd benefit from a solid floor but will still be sensitive to some degree to environmental ground noise, e.g. traffic.
I've seen very good results with one of these, may take a bit of work to get it right, and whether it works better than a pendulum will depend on your situation.
@geoffkait Springs, yes - but what design and how to damp?
Looks to me like Ligo is using coupled pendulums. Do those provide vertical isolation? Looks like that comes from the cables, and the intermediate masses?
The springs should not be damped. Damping hurts isolation effectiveness and it’s audible. You just place the springs under the component. Voila! 🤗 My springs provide vertical isolation, some rotational isolation. LIGO uses many types of isolation including dual-layer heavy mass-on-spring systems and sapphire thread suspension. LIGO pendulums provide isolation in many directions. My first design was a pendulum with very heavy suspended mass that isolated in 6 directions with Fr as low as 0.5 Hz (vertical 🔝).
I recently demoed my unsuspended, 70 lb turntable on an HRS S1 platform and really liked what it did. Better clarity, bass extension and micro detail retrieval. Just swapped it out for a vibraplane for similar good sonic result with a bonus of zero footfall transmission which makes me think it may be even more effective than the HRS shelf. System is on a suspended hardwood floor.
The Townshend Audio Seismic Pod is a spring inside a rubber sleeve, with a tiny hole that allows air to escape when the spring is compressed (somewhat reminiscent of a bellows). The spring provides isolation, the rubber sleeve and compressed air damping.
In one of his You Tube videos, Max Townshend demonstrates the difference between the bare spring from a Pod vs. the complete Pod. Easy to find on You Tube, just do a search for the company name.
That would certainly explain why my simple undamped springs sound better than Townshend Iso Pods. Any restraint of the micro motion of the springs, e.g., the rubber fabric or the force of air, interferes with the effectiveness of isolation. As I said damping degrades the sound.
My TT (Takai Final Audio VTT-1) rests flat on a Critical Mass System shelve with AT-616 footers under the shelve. The AT-616 footers also level the shelve and thus the TT. My set up works very well and I highly recommend.
I use a minus K under my Esoteric CD player to great effect. The minus K is VERY sensitive to weight distribution and MUCH care is required while setting it up.
Let’s talk about the Minus K for a second. Great performance, under 1.0 Hz in all of almost all directions of motion. I read you can drop a penny on the top plate of the Minus K and it will go into slow undulation, rocking and rolling and moving up and down. That’s what isolation, very good isolation looks like, small forces put it into motion with ease. The best isolation is when there is the greatest ease of motion. That’s also why it’s critical to square away all power cords, etc. that might constrain the motion of iso system for any spring type iso stand.
Minus K is center of gravity sensitive. If your component is heavier on one end, it cannot be rested/centered on top of the minus K platform. To do so, you might have to use a ballast on the lighter side. Also, the component cannot be slid while resting on the minus K, as this can damage the internals. Either way, it is great.
Here is everyone’s solution 4 curtain rings 4 racquetballs 2x3 slab of granite counter top 1)place rings down in a square 2) put balls in rings 3) place granite slab on racquetballs Done! No vibration
I can totally vouch for the Stacore Advanced platform. 95kg of slate mass loading/pneumatics/constrained layer damping/ball bearings isolation. Pricey, but has had a uniquely positive influence in my system. I've also added a 55kg solid slate stand under the Stacore.
Granite has the inherent advantage of mass and stiffness and sounds great if it is isolated on springs as the top plate of the iso device. Granite cannot ring if it is isolated since the granite cannot be excited by floorborne vibration due to filter effect of mass and springs. airborne vibration cannot excite the granite either since any vibration on the top plate is dissipated by the isolation system. Granite or bluestone of sufficient thickness 2-3” can sound excellent if simply placed in very hard cones. If you’re worried that granite rings don’t strike it while listening to music. There’s not enough energy at it’s Fn to make it ring. The inherent stiffness of granite and bluestone slabs makes them very resistant to bending forces comprised in seismic vibration. 🔄
You must have a verified phone number and physical address in order to post in the Audiogon Forums. Please return to Audiogon.com and complete this step. If you have any questions please contact Support.
