Tube amps under $7500

@passthedutchie Thanks for correction. I was comparing the $5,715 "sale price" at Upscale against what is apparently their "regular" price of $6,178 with KT150s. You are correct that the price with EL34s is $4,995. And of course I agree that if one is going to buy PL, one should do it at Upscale.

@hickamore 

Like you I would naturally incline to KT150s and wonder why the unit costs $400 less with these vs. stock EL34. 

Are you in the U.S.? If so, I'm not sure where you're getting those prices. At Upscale Audio — the natural place to buy PrimaLuna because Upscale's Kevin Deal is the brand's U.S. importer — the EVO 400 is on sale for $4,995. That's with 8 EL34s. With a set of KT150s, the price is $5,715.

The Odysseys are sold state.

Rogers High Fidelity used

Ayon Scorpion II

$5,500

www.usatubeaudio.com

I had a Rogue ST-100 for a minute. It sounded terrible on my speakers, which are extremely accurate. I understand that Rogue overdrives the power tubes so you must constantly replace them at about six months.

I have two Prima Luna Dialogue Premium HP, the non-balanced pre-cursor to the EVO's. I loaded the HPs (I run them as mono-blocks) with KT150's. That gave me just below 200 watts for UL and nearly 100 for TR mode The PL is easier to work with as all the controls are accessible while playing. The auto adjust bias is a godsend as I don't worry about having the tubes adjusted properly.

I've had the PL HPs for six years now and I'm still running the same tubes. They must have lost something, but I still can play anything very loud with no fatigue. That's the best test I know for an amps usability. I had to stop listening to the Rogue after it was in use for an hour. I didn't keep it a month. Don't buy a Rogue.

Yes, as I mentioned above, OTLs may not work with a low impedance load.  Adding a transformer to lower the amp’s output impedance sort of defeats the purported advantage of being transformerless.  I personally don’t care about such theoretical problems and like the sound of iron anyway.  The M 60 and M 30 are very good sounding to me, although a touch lean (i.e., not warm).  The Joule Elecktra OTLs were warmer sounding, but some developed problems with their tube sockets over time so one must take care buying those amps.  The bigger Atmasphere amps sound very good and are a touch warmer, but even used they might be beyond your budget.  The bigger Atmasphere amps use more output tubes in parallel to increase output and this also lowers output impedance so they should be even more compatible with your speakers than the M 60 or M 30.  When they are compatible with your speakers, OTLs kick ass-they make the music so lively and dynamic without being harsh.

Always a BIG fan of RM’s Music Reference work…including the power amps…but they are super neutral ….hardly overly tubey but very very musical… get fantastic RAM tubes for them !  9 mk2 or the 200. IF you have fairly efficient speakers or don’t listen loud, try to find the RM-10 version w hand wound by RM transformers…. a grail amplifier…imo….

@bdp24 Appreciate the warning. At this stage I should focus on amps with dedicated 4 ohm tap.

@passthedutchie Like you I would naturally incline to KT150s and wonder why the unit costs $400 less with these vs. stock EL34. 

Ayon Spirit. You can use it as a power or preamp or integrated 

If you go with a pair of Atma-Sphere M-60's (a great amp, which I have owned) or S-30, for use with a 4 ohm loudspeaker you will need the Z-Music Transformer, which raises the impedance the amp sees. OTL amps don't like low impedences.

For $7,500 you can get a PrimaLuna EVO 400 integrated and swap the EL34s for KT150s. I did, and hear added body and slam, and a wider soundstage.

I would recommend an older Conrad Johnson such as a premier 140 used, Also, Manley Snappers, I’ve had great luck using both. They both will fall within your budget. Both of these amplify sound glorious. Good luck with your search. 
 

Michael. 

Look into AtmaSphere OTL.  Excellent amps with great customer service.

For the money, it would be difficult to do better than a Don Sachs Kootenai KT88-based amp.  A few are available at the moment. 

For the money, it would be difficult to do better than a Don Sachs Kootenai KT88-based amp.  A few are available at the moment. 

@hickamore I own Primaluna monoblocks. Pay no mind to the bias against PL products displayed on this forum. The bias is because they’re built in China. A segment of these people believe that anything built in China is junk. But another fact is the majority of these people have never owned the product. So how would they know anything about the products? Exactly. My amps are over 15 years old, self biasing, and operate as if they’re knew. Go figure. 

I would add to audiotroy's list:

1. Dynamics--tube gear sounds more alive and dynamic, particular at low volume.  Solid state has to be cranked up much louder to come alive.

2.  Natural/realistic attack/transients--the initial attack of a note sounds more natural and not as artificially hard or brittle.

Many of the tube amps that have XLR input jacks have them for a convenience for people with balanced cables, but the circuitry is not fully balanced.  If you have balanced cables and a piece of gear does not have XLR inputs, you can buy adaptors so you can keep the balanced cables.  This really should not be a limiting factor because the vast majority of tube amplifiers are not fully balanced.  

@ditusa +1 Also, mfr of my SS amp recommends balanced, so those are the cables I have and there are enough tube amps in that category that check my boxes.

@akgwhiz Power amp, not integrated; 70+WPC; silver preferred although wood will do. Down to a short list now thanks to many helpful advisors.

audphile here are reasons for purchasing a tube amplifier:

1 longevity: as the tubes are replaceable you can easily renew your amplifier.

2; easier to service then solid state a tube amplifier is a simple design and are easier to work on.

3: the sound is customizable by tube rolling

4: in general tube amplifiers produce a wider deeper soundstage then most solid state designs.

5: midrange liquidity most tube amplifiers produce a lusher more fleshed out midrange then most solid state designs.

Dave and Troy

Audio Intellect NJ

tube dealer

I didn't see in OP integrated vs amp or wattage requirements.  FWIW, I've got my Raven Blackhawk integrated with NOS tubes I've settled on and it's way better than stock and expectations.   No XLR.  OK, I'll throw in for Don Sachs Valhalla integrated.  34 watts with the larger pre tubes like 6SN7 etc.    Has XLR but I think you'll only get the (beautiful) wooden chassis.  I've looked hard at Aric and Qualiton too for next amp.  

@crawfishdaddi Wrote:

Unless you are dealing with a long cable run (say 15ft or more), you will spend a lot more money and never hear the benefit of balanced inputs.

Why balanced operation? See article here!

Mike

@bimmerlover LOL, Prima Luna was my OP question and NO ONE before now has even remotely endorsed it. 

Ayon Spirit PA. I have my eyes on that one.

Look at the hybrid Musical Fidelity NuVista 600 or ideally 800.  

I think it’s hard to beat PrimaLuna tube amps for value. Point to point wiring, tube rectified, solidly built, compellingly priced. 
 

I currently using PL Dialogue Premium preamp going into a McIntosh MC312 solid state power amp. It’s a nice combo, and the Mac can handle most any speakers thrown at it (GoldenEar Triton One.R for me). 
 

Good luck!

+1 @larryi 

Unless you are dealing with a long cable run (say 15ft or more), you will spend a lot more money and never hear the benefit of balanced inputs. It's easy to get obsessed with specs, but how the amp is voiced matters WAY MORE than its specifications on paper.

Don't sleep on Raven Audio ;)

Good luck!

@bdp24 Very interesting. A product that came out during my years away from hi-fi. Seems to check all the boxes and I see a MkII on Shark for $3250. Sounds almost too good. Will inquire further and thanks for the tip.

Music Reference products, though never trendy and/or fashionable, are (were) very well designed and built by tube expert Roger Modjeski. Roger passed away in 2019, but his amps are well known to run trouble free for years. At one seminar I attended, Bill Johnson of ARC said he built his amps for an expected lifespan of 20 years. Modjeski said his target was 100 years!

Roger designed his RM-200 amp for low impedance loudspeakers, and the amp puts out a little over 100w/ch, with taps for 8, 4, and 1 ohm (!) loads. Both KT88 and 6550 tubes may be used (only 2 per channel), and the amp’s low output impedance for a tube amp results in very little change in frequency response in reaction to loudspeaker impedance characteristics. The amp features balanced-only XLR input jacks.

Michael Fremer reviewed the original version of the RM-200 in Stereophile, after which he kept it and used it as his reference "affordable" tube power amp, and placed it in the Class A/Tube category in the mag’s Recommended Components list. He subsequently reviewed the Mk.2 iteration of the amp, and John Atkinson’s test bench results of the amp were unusually excellent. In his Stereophile review of the earlier RM-9 power amp (single ended/RCA jacks only, 4 EL34 or KT88 tubes per channel, producing 100wpc, 125 in the MK.2 version), Dick Olsher (one of my favorite reviewers) heaped praise on the amp, asking the rhetorical question "Who needs the McIntosh MC75 when we have the Music Reference RM-9 Mk.2?"

The RM-9 Mk.2 typically sells for around $2000 on the used market, the RM-200 Mk.2 around a grand more. Legendary high end retailer Brooks Berdan (alas, like Bill Johnson and Roger Modjeski also deceased) sold Jadis and VTL amps to his well-heeled customers, Music Reference to working class stiffs.

@mike4597 Equivalent bass response has been my primary concern with the low-mid-level tube amps I am exploring. The behemoth tube monoblocks can definitely go low with realism, but I will never be in the market for those.

I recently replaced my ST100 “Dark,” which is an excellent amplifier, with a pair of monobloc Odyssey Kismet amps, and I am exceptionally pleased.  Used with my Rogue RP-7 preamp, I think the solid state amps give me better bass response, especially at lower volume levels, better tonal qualities, and better soundstage and imaging. At least with my Fyne F702 speakers.

If the requirement for balanced design limits choices to much, I would ditch that criterion.  There are MUCH more important things at play than the relatively trivial advantage of balanced design.  You do need to somehow hear various amps and make a choice entirely on the sound, not on any specific design choice, topology, type of tube utilized, etc.  There are a number of suggestions made above that are based on sound and disregarding your balanced criterion that you should use to make your target list. 

Way back in this thread, a dealer who sells Legacy mentioned the Synthesis amps he also sells. If you can, you should get to hear their amps even if the black color is out of the question because their amps are great examples of warm sounding tube gear that is also punchy, alive, dynamic, and clear sounding all at the same time.  That will set a tough to beat mark, but, I think you will agree it is a worthy standard; I have not met anyone who has heard their amps that did not like the sound a lot.  I know someone who traded in two month old $60k amps for a pair of their $18k monoblocs.  I like the monoblocs, but they are really only slightly better than their $8500 integrated amp that includes a fantastic DAC.  Some pretty exotic DACs have been traded in for Synthesis DACs; they do know how to make those things well too.

+++1 I own the Aric Audio Super preamp and Transcend amplifier. I encourage you to talk to Aric Kimball. 

hickamore

++1 for Aric Audio, and funny I just asked Aric about XLR inputs for a friend that is going to buy one of his amps.

Aric makes 2 300B amps, a 2A3 amp, a Transcend EL34 "Push Pull" (What I own) a EL34/KT88/120/150 single ended, and Super KT EL34/KT88/KT120/KT150 monoblocks. All of them come standard with RCA single ended, but can be upgraded to XLR for a $300 upgrade.

All of Aric's stuff is hand wired, can be customized, and uses ridiculously high quality components. Give him a call, he's a great guy to talk to, and makes amazing equipment. I also own his Motherlode XL preamp, and will be buying one of his 300B amps in the fall

@maxdukecapone Thank you for the mention! I wanted to add that any of my amplifiers can be fitted with fully balanced differential inputs at a modest upcharge (the cost of the Jensen input transformers and Neutrik XLR jacks). Additionally, I can also finish the chassis in a thin hardwood painted silver to mimic a silver metal chassis at no additional cost. Best regards, Aric

@hickamore I have an Aric Audio amp and is highly recommended by members.

@aricaudio 

https://aricaudio.com

Balanced narrows the field. Audio Research I/50 meets your criteria. McIntosh [whispers] MA252 and MA352 also meet your criteria.

I like OTL amps—they tend to be very vivid and lively.  But, because of their high output impedance, they tend to work best with high impedance speakers and not ones rated at 4 ohms.  The M-60 is quite good, but it is also not on the warm side tonally speaking.

@mdalton Agreed, Suara would be a super-cool piece to look at and play with. Just  not sure it's the prudent one for me.

@ditusa Atma-Sphere definitely in contention. All now comes down to where I find the best deal on a piece that checks the boxes. Appreciate all the thoughtful advice from a forum of experienced contributors.

Check out Transcendent Sound OTL tube amps.  They are sold only as kits but there are pros on the Transcendent forum that will assemble and test for a reasonable fee.

@hickamore,

See Atma-Sphere M-60 mono amps, automatic bias - no adjustment needed and true balanced differential design! Colors: black brushed anodized, silver brushed anodized, gold brushed anodized. Have fun 😎

Mike

1961 MC240….. mostly black n chrome…no biasing but no XLR…..

Have fun Hickamore

@mdalton I would use the word 'vivid' to describe my Lab12 and also Jadis. They give a bold first row live music experience type that demands your listening attention. I agree that more niche brands tend to give incredible value of money. I still think my Lab12 is as good or better than anything in the market below $20000. 

@larryi You are correct that Lab12 Suara (and Integre 4 MKII2) do not have balanced input, despite having XLR input. 

There are a couple more options that OP can consider. An used Air-Tight ATM-1 would be exactly what he is looking, minus the balanced input. I've heard good things about Luxman MQ-88UC as well. 

@auroravengeance 

Yeah, not sure myself.  Have only heard Lab12 at audio shows, so really hard to tell.  I did see a Part-Time Audiophile review that suggested the integrated was somewhat “warm” and “tubey”, but definitely YMMV.  I’m a big fan of some of the European and Japanese niche companies out there that provide alot of value for $ (e.g., Synthesis, Triode Corp., Lab12, Audio Hungary, Fezz Audio, etc.) Hard to go with ARC, VAC, BAT or CJ and meet the OP’s budget.  Me? I have 3 tube integrateds: Synthesis, Leben, and Triode Corp.  

The ARC VT80SE is a fully balanced amp so it fits your specifications.  I don't consider it a warm sounding amp, but that is a very subjective judgment.  I have never heard the Lab 12 Suara, but, nothing in the description suggests that it is fully balanced.  Just because a component has balanced input jacks does not mean it is fully balanced (the jacks might be there as a convenience).

@mdalton 

OP wanted romantic sound. As much as I adore my Lab12 Integre 4 MKII (and by extension Suara) they are definitely not romantic and tubey. 

Lab12 Suara.  $5400 (new).  60w.  4 ohm taps. Balanced.  Cool factor.  

@larryi I realize true balanced, end-to-end, is a tough ticket. But I believe DAC & pre both fully satisfy. Phono stage does not, but vinyl use is down to "on request only" at this point. This forum very quickly talked me out of Prima Luna, and I was already inclining against Mac for other reasons. Top choice at the moment is ARC VT80SE but seller may be getting cold feet on that one.