Tube amps under $7500


Ready to experiment with combinations never before (or not recently) tried. Step one requires a tube amp. Now looking at Prima Luna EVO 400 which sells for 5K. Any other tube amps I should consider in this price/feature range? Must come in silver with balanced input. For pairing experimentally with various tube and SS preamps. Efficient 4 ohm Legacy speakers (and the room/setup) are the constants.

 

hickamore

Showing 14 responses by larryi

A lot of difference in the house sound of CJ and ARC amps, so it is interesting that some have recommended both.  You need to at least sample dome of the brands recommended.  I particularly endorse the recommendation of Synthesis amps.  I cannot think of another brand that I like more for reasonably priced gear.  Most speakers can be driven by their A40 integrated (40 wpc), but, if you need more power, their A100 delivers that.

I understand the cosmetic requirement.  But, why insist on balanced connection?  If it is that important, you would be limited to truly balanced tube topology and I would bet that is pretty limited (like Balanced Audio Technology).  Otherwise, even if your sources are only balanced out (very doubtful), you can use an adaptor.

Also, you say you have limited the field to three choices.  If you tell us what the three are, you can get some opinions on them.  For my own personal taste, I hope they do not include Primaluna or modern McIntosh.

The ARC VT80SE is a fully balanced amp so it fits your specifications.  I don't consider it a warm sounding amp, but that is a very subjective judgment.  I have never heard the Lab 12 Suara, but, nothing in the description suggests that it is fully balanced.  Just because a component has balanced input jacks does not mean it is fully balanced (the jacks might be there as a convenience).

I like OTL amps—they tend to be very vivid and lively.  But, because of their high output impedance, they tend to work best with high impedance speakers and not ones rated at 4 ohms.  The M-60 is quite good, but it is also not on the warm side tonally speaking.

If the requirement for balanced design limits choices to much, I would ditch that criterion.  There are MUCH more important things at play than the relatively trivial advantage of balanced design.  You do need to somehow hear various amps and make a choice entirely on the sound, not on any specific design choice, topology, type of tube utilized, etc.  There are a number of suggestions made above that are based on sound and disregarding your balanced criterion that you should use to make your target list. 

Way back in this thread, a dealer who sells Legacy mentioned the Synthesis amps he also sells. If you can, you should get to hear their amps even if the black color is out of the question because their amps are great examples of warm sounding tube gear that is also punchy, alive, dynamic, and clear sounding all at the same time.  That will set a tough to beat mark, but, I think you will agree it is a worthy standard; I have not met anyone who has heard their amps that did not like the sound a lot.  I know someone who traded in two month old $60k amps for a pair of their $18k monoblocs.  I like the monoblocs, but they are really only slightly better than their $8500 integrated amp that includes a fantastic DAC.  Some pretty exotic DACs have been traded in for Synthesis DACs; they do know how to make those things well too.

I would add to audiotroy's list:

1. Dynamics--tube gear sounds more alive and dynamic, particular at low volume.  Solid state has to be cranked up much louder to come alive.

2.  Natural/realistic attack/transients--the initial attack of a note sounds more natural and not as artificially hard or brittle.

Many of the tube amps that have XLR input jacks have them for a convenience for people with balanced cables, but the circuitry is not fully balanced.  If you have balanced cables and a piece of gear does not have XLR inputs, you can buy adaptors so you can keep the balanced cables.  This really should not be a limiting factor because the vast majority of tube amplifiers are not fully balanced.  

Yes, as I mentioned above, OTLs may not work with a low impedance load.  Adding a transformer to lower the amp’s output impedance sort of defeats the purported advantage of being transformerless.  I personally don’t care about such theoretical problems and like the sound of iron anyway.  The M 60 and M 30 are very good sounding to me, although a touch lean (i.e., not warm).  The Joule Elecktra OTLs were warmer sounding, but some developed problems with their tube sockets over time so one must take care buying those amps.  The bigger Atmasphere amps sound very good and are a touch warmer, but even used they might be beyond your budget.  The bigger Atmasphere amps use more output tubes in parallel to increase output and this also lowers output impedance so they should be even more compatible with your speakers than the M 60 or M 30.  When they are compatible with your speakers, OTLs kick ass-they make the music so lively and dynamic without being harsh.

I hope it works out for you and Aric Audio.  I like small custom builders who know what they are doing and don’t greatly overcharge for their services and I like the fact that you will be auditioning the gear before buying.  You have been quite diligent in seeking advice here, but in the end, it should come down to hearing before buying.

I understood that you were looking for an amp on the warm side.  It is quite hard to guess what that means, as everyone has a different idea of just-the-right-amount of anything.  To me, Audio Research is decidedly on the cool, bright, and lean side of the spectrum of tube gear.  I respect the company for being consistent with its house sound, but, it is not the sound I personally favor.  I suggest that you listen to a few different amps and tell us which you liked or disliked, and why so, then perhaps it will help others make recommendations consistent with what you are looking for.

Unlike the old days when solid state amps sounded grainy or harsh, modern amps are quite smooth and not at all harsh.  There are brands, like Accuphase and Rowland that are also on the warmish side.  But, what good tube amps deliver (meaning not all tube amps) is great dynamics at low volume (micro dynamics) and lively sound when playing at modest volumes (one tends to want to crank up solid state systems to get the juices flowing), a sound that grabs your attention so you want to listen more carefully instead of allowing your attention to wander, a sound that seems to envelop you more than solid state, and a more relaxed (not as edgy) sound while still being lively. 

The downside to tubes has to do with compatibility with speakers, bass control and depth that is not in the same league with solid state gear, inability to peel  paint with high volume (unless one buys super power tube amps, many of which sound harsh and brittle), and putting up with some maintenance issues or problems with noise or channel imbalance.  

I know that the Synthesis Audio A40 does not meet your criteria, but, if you have a chance, audition that amp to hear what a good, medium-powered tube amp can do.  That would be, in my opinion, a very tough to beat benchmark.  If you can do without balance connection, listen to what Audio Note Oto or Soro can do.  Other brands with, to me, good sound include Allnic, Air Tight, and Weytech.  Certain old Cary amps were also good, but their warmer sounding models sound a touch murky and sluggish (still very good at reasonable, used prices).

As I stated above, I am suggesting that you hear these amps even though they don't match your criteria and tell us if that is the kind of sound you are after.  If you think they are too warm, for example, you might be a candidate for the Audio Research amps being suggested above.

Also, if you do find it to be as good as I think it is, you might change your plans.  It is an integrated amp, with a first rate DAC that might prompt someone to drop a whole lot of other gear in favor of this amp.  I know of a buyer trading in a Jadis amp, Jadis linestage and a DAC (don't recall what DAC) for the A100 model that costs a small fraction of the gear being traded in.  I had to agree that the A100 sounded better than the Jadis, and Jadis is really nice sounding gear (also spectacularly well built).

With a lot of tube gear, the difference between an integrated amp and a power amp is surprisingly minimal--if you take the power amp and add input jacks, a source selector and a volume pot, you have an integrated amp.(you probably don't need additional gain of a preamp or the buffering of the preamp).  One is often better off going with a manufacturer's integrated model because it is cheaper, will sound at least as good and will not require a pair of interconnects.

If bass response, and specifically how the amp handles low impedance (i.e., damping factor) is a high priority, then solid state is the way to go.  Some powerful tube amps with many pairs of output tubes may also have respectable damping factors, but to me, most such amps sound hard and edgy (I prefer solid state to many high powered tube amps).  It comes down to priorities and picking your own set of compromises; nothing is perfect.  My own priorities do place deep, tight bass way down the list.  Getting a rich, saturated sound with good midrange and lively sound at lower volume levels are high on my list which is why I like low to medium powered tube amps.  I sacrifice extreme volume capability, and deep tight bass.

For me, it is not just that extremely deep and impactful bass is a low priority, I don't like the results I often hear with attempts to achieve such bass.  Often the bottom end sounds "dry" and toneless when that kind of bass is achieved.  I think it is quite hard to do proper active crossovers and bi-amplification and even adding subwoofers properly is tricky.  The bass quality of your speaker system is mostly a property of the speaker, not the amplification.  While it is possible to get some improvement by proper choice of amplifier, and perhaps by expert bi-amplification, I think it would be hard to avoid compromises in other aspects of performance or ease of use of the system.  I know people who constantly fiddle with subwoofer settings, bi-amplification level setting, etc., and that sort of attention to the system is not for me.  Some people enjoy that kind of tweaking, so it is a personal choice.