Tube Amp for Devore O/96

I unfortunately haven't heard those amps but do love the Devore Fidelity 0/96! A few others to consider:

Atma-Sphere S-30
Audio Mirror Reflection Monoblocks
Margules I-240 Integrated

I have heard all three and owned both the Atma-Sphere and Margules and all would be lovely with the Devores. I am a Margules dealer as well and would say the I-240 is a magical creature despite it being only 25wpc. I prefer it over any other EL34 amp I've had. Lots of good press on it recently.

Thanks so much for the recs! I'll definitely include these in my amp research.

I have heard O96 in the same room with:

100w Jadis integrated, 50w Riviera Hybrids, 20w Silvercore 833c, a German 300b 20w, and New Audio Frontier 2a3. They were best with the NAF. 

In another room, with Airtight EL34 34 watts, and Airtight 300b integrated 10w. They were best with the 300b. 

I have also heard them sound good with Mastersound 845, and not sound good with Kondo overture (el34) and unison research. 

My take is that, especially if you are analog and like the recordings to show through, simple circuits and set ups are better with the O96, with some drive, hence the push pull 2a3/300b types work best

Has anyone here heard the O/96 with good KT88 pentode mono amps?

I haven't heard either amp.   Both are probably more amp that you need for your efficient speakers.  the Jadis is Class A which the CJ is ultralinear which is a compromise you don't need.  So between these I'd definitely opt for Jadis if I were buying from specs alone.  You could do fine with a pure SET such as a 300B.

Jerry

+1 New Audio Frontiers 2A3.

Heads up I'm a NAF dealer.

@flipturn That speaker is easy to drive so you have a wide range of amps to choose from. Its not efficient enough (unless you have a small room) for SETs (which should not be run past about 20% of full power in order to avoid excess distortion) unless you have a really powerful one. The problem with those is they audibly lack bandwidth.

If you are set on tubes look for a triode amp that is push-pull. That will get you the power you need; triodes have linearity that pentodes and tetrodes don't. They allow the designer to build a smoother and more detailed sounding amp due to lower distortion.

The Jadis was a KT150 but why would anyone use 88, 150 etc when 2a3 push pull out 300b work? Try some EL84 push pull or a 845 or 211

A nice Decware amp should drive those fairly well

@atmasphere Thanks so much! I'm pretty sure I'm set on tubes for the O/96s. According to Devore, the speaker was specifically designed for low-powered tube amplifiers, so tubes seem to me the best approach to get the most out of my system with these speakers. I'm fairly new to this hobby so I'm still figuring things out, but are there reasons to consider solid-state over tubes for these speakers? Also, do you have any particular triode amps that are push-pull you'd recommend?

@carlsbad Thanks! I forgot to add that my listening room is a very large open space,; with high ceilings and no walls, so I will need a decent bit of power. With that in mind, would the Jadis still be more amp than I need for my efficient speakers?

@bonzo75 Thanks! I'll definitely check out the NAF2A3, Airtight 300b, and Mastersound 845! Did you have a preference between the NAF2A3 and the Airtight 300b for the O/96 performance?

@atmasphere Ralph I’m surprised you didn’t explicitly support my mention of your S-30. I know the 0/96 may dip slightly below 8ohms in a few frequencies, but might you have any opinion on how the S-30 might perform with the O/96?

Ralph I’m surprised you didn’t explicitly support my mention of your S-30. I know the 0/96 may dip slightly below 8ohms in a few frequencies, but might you have any opinion on how the S-30 might perform with the O/96?

@blisshifi I appreciate the mention bit am also careful about the forum rules. I think the M-60s a better match in most rooms just because of the power; in this particular case @flipturn mentioned he has a larger room so the power will be appreciated.

@flipturn Hard to say.  I don't know those speakers either.  they are efficient but not huge.  I have huges speakers that can really fill a room without much energy expended.  

So it really comes down to "would a low power SET sound much better than the Jadis?"  Truthfully I'm listening to a Decware ZMA right now which is very similar in design to the Jadis.  It is more amp than i need but very well designed and sounds great.  

Good luck,Jerry

@flipturn

You have some very compelling choices and have received some strong suggestions. There is no dog in this group of amplifiers. The Conrad Johnson is an example of the traditional/popular class AB ultra linear push pull circuit using indirectly Pentode output tube with solid state rectification.

The Jadis is pure class A push pull using pentode tubes . Jadis has a reputation for utilizing exceptional quality output transformers. I think the 30 watt power rating is conservative given two KT 120 per channel. Jadis has the knack for consistently beautiful music reproduction.

New Audio Frontiers (NAF) is a very well regarded Italian audio manufacturer. They have a reputation for very high quality transformers wound in house. Given your large listening room they offer two potential pathways with them. 211 or 845 SET (DHT) and they are tube rectified. Or as mentioned previously the 2A3 or 300b (DHT push pull ). I do not doubt @bonzo75 reported listening impressions.

No doubt that there are other very viable amplifier options with the Devore Orangutan 96. I just happen to believe that Jadis or certainty the NAF amplifiers would sound particularly special paired with the O 96 speakers.

Charles

@flipturn i heard the airtight and NAF in different rooms my gut says NAF but didn’t hear them next to each other. In such cases even the tubes used can make a difference. Also keep in mind that Art Dudley used this speaker as a reference with Shindo. I personally don’t like the Shindo sound but you can try that out. 
 

@fsonicsmith

I do believe that DHT (Directly heated triode) is technically speaking a more “linear” tube than the pentode tube. However I do agree that the Orangutan-96 can sound fantastic with a good pentode tube amplifier. Thus my strong endorsement of the Jadis KT 120 integrated amplifier as an alternative to the NAF DHT models.

No question in my mind that the CJ,VTL or ARC etc pentode amplifiers are terrific options as well. Obviously I believe that we all appreciate it hinges on the implementation.
 

Beyond that, it depends on what one is seeking sonically. I have an attraction to good DHT amplifiers. However, no doubt much musical success is obtainable with indirectly heated pentode/tetrodes tubes driving the Devore O-96. As I said earlier, the OP has numerous really good choices available.

Charles

@bonzo75 

Mr. Dudley owned O93’s

Thanks so much! This is all very helpful information. I feel like I'm getting a crash course in tube amps although some material remains well beyond my purview at this point. I have some research to do I suppose as I don't know Class A from Class AB or what a pentode is. I feel like I'm slightly confused in the back of my Physics class again but I'll figure it out.

One question I have is, I've seen the term "linear" used in this thread and on various stereo review websites, but I'm not sure I know what it means exactly. Does that mean that the sound is more focused and direct and not as wide and broad? That's what I think I can gather from context but could be way off. 

@charles1dad 

Thank you for the very thorough response! I'm really drawn to your Jadis description of "consistently beautiful musical production." I've read that elsewhere about their amps, too, and ultimately that is my end goal above all else - to simply enjoy beautiful music. 

I’ve had two friends achieve great results with their O/96 using Jadis JA30MKII. I’m fairly certain optimal results were achieved with the internal straps set for high impedance delivery. 

@flipturn

You are welcome. Don’t worry, as you continue to read and explore your knowledge base will steadily expand and deepen. Curiosity and motivation will take you far. Vacuum tubes are actually pretty basic devices but there are so many variations and applications with regard to function and utilization.

They have stood the test of time for very good reasons. When used properly in audio components they’re capable of exquisite and authentic music reproduction.

I am not an electrical engineer and @atmasphere (Ralph) can provide a much better explanation. Essentially linearity refers to the degree of disruption/deviation/distortion of an applied audio or electrical signal. The closer the output signal resembles the input signal (Less deviation) the more linear or pure a device is said to be.

This in part explains why DHT type tubes can be used without the need for applied negative feedback (NFB) compared to indirectly heated tetrode/pentodes generally speaking. No doubt other factors are in play.
 

You will often see DHT SET amplifiers with zero NFB. There are pros and cons to everything. It all depends on what is sonically being sought.

Charles

With the bass characteristics of the O96, I’d do push pull 2a3 or something similar vs SET.

I own a pair of the 0/96s and have tried a number of tube amps with them. My favorite pairing is a custom built pair of 300b mono amps, outputting 8wpc, and built by Bottlehead tech/designer. It uses Magnaquest nickel transformers and some hefty and expensive Mundorf silver gold foil oil caps. It edged out my Leben CS600x (which also sounds wonderful), and also a Shindo amp and a Woo WA5 300b integrated. Tried 5 other amps ranging from 2A3, 811, 845, and other higher power 300b variants, but these custom amps were the best (and happily like 1/2 the cost). I partnered with a 300b preamp that also uses nice transformers and vcaps. My room is 19’x18’ with 8ft ceiling.

I personally think 300bs are the best pairing for this speaker. I don’t want for more power, bass is wonderful and controlled and defined, and everything else sounds better than push pull amps I tried.

The EL34 amps add a tad more dynamics and the height of the listening window seems taller. But the 300bs add so much texture, detail, tone, and palpability. Honestly it’s super fun to switch around so I kept the Leben as a second unit, and pair it with Chartwell LS3/5a speakers.

I’ve owned Airtight amps, but not the 300b which I did listen to and quite loved - I had the ATM3 mono amps using EL34 tubes. Of all the amps mentioned, I would start with the ATM300. Airtight is a bit picky about preamps, and I never quite loved their own offerings. I would highly recommend looking into the custom builds like I commissioned, with the only caveat that the resale will be harder. That said, the cost savings over the more of name brands let me invest in some expensive cables and upgrade my digital, plus they sound better IMHO.

@atmasphere

Classy as usual……..👍

@davehg 

You've had first hands experience with quite a number of good amplifiers driving the Orangutan 96 speakers. I lean more toward SET amplifiers generally if applicable by circumstances. In this scenario given the OP's large and open listening space I can appreciate the recommendation for a push -pull amplifier with typically additional power.​​​​

In addition with push- pull  you will usually have a lower output impedance and increased damping factor. Depending on the speaker's bass characteristics this may/may not be desirable.

Charles

I deleted my post. Ralph means well and I am just mean. 

I will restate though that the Devore O' series play well with a broad range of tube amps. The O/96's can easily overpower a room with excess bass. They are propulsive and lively, but can sound a bit loosey-goosey, the opposite of the buttoned-down analytic sound I attribute to the likes of Magico's and the top TAD standmounts. For that reason for some listeners and rooms a push-pull tube amp with nfb can ameliorate some of that tendency. 

I tried my O/93's with a very good SET no feedback amp, an Ampsandsound Nautilus with 8 watts and the sound is sweet but the firmness of the low end and the extension of the treble disappeared. 

As Charles1dad said, and it's a cliche' but a true cliche', there are always trade-offs. Your choice of loudspeaker cable will also make a huge difference with the O's. I really like what the Auditorium 23 do with the O's but after a while I think I prefer Cardas Clear Beyond. 

The O/96 is magical. It has something about it that the O/93 lacks despite the similar drivers. 

@davehg 

That's a serious looking300b SET amplifier. Thanks for the pictures.

Charles

@fsonicsmith

 I tried my O/93's with a very good SET no feedback amp, an Ampsandsound Nautilus with 8 watts and the sound is sweet but the firmness of the low end and the extension of the treble disappeared.

I can understand that outcome depending on the particular SET amplifier. Looking at Dave's pictures it's clear that his amplifier has very robust power supply and he mentioned custom quality output transformers. So for him, no problems controlling the bass .

Charles

The first build, we spec’d great transformers and Mundorf caps. I had the chance to compare 5 builds including some that were closer to the original Western Electric design, and a few with larger transformers that weren’t as boutique, but where the 300b was putting out over 10w. The Western Electric amp design was awesome but lacked low end, so we used the nickel transformers.

I think the transformers made a big difference for the bass but initially the bass felt like it was soft. We swapped in larger Mundorf caps and wham! It was like adding half an octave of bass, and brought the performance within spitting distance of the EL34 amp. The caps added $600 to the build, but well worth it. Total cost was about $4k including the Gold Lion tubes.

I will say the O/96 reveals every change, especially cables. It gets better the more you feed it high quality stuff. 

@davehg 

I think the transformers made a big difference for the bass but initially the bass felt like it was soft. We swapped in larger Mundorf caps and wham! It was like adding half an octave of bass, and brought the performance within spitting distance of the EL34 amp. The caps added $600 to the build, but well worth it. Total cost was about $4k including the Gold Lion tubes.

I'm 100% in agreement concerning the vital importance of output transformer quality and better quality capacitors. I'm surprised that a SET of your amplifier's build was only 4K, seems quite the bargain from what I see. This is an amplifier that you'll have and enjoy for years I bet.

I've owned my 300b SET mono blocks for more than13 years and quite frankly my appreciation and admiration of them continues to grow.

Charles

I've heard the 0/96 driven by a Shindo Montrachet, that's a UL amp using EL34 tubes to put out 30 watts, to good effect in a medium sized room. I've not heard any of the other amps the OP is considering but love the idea of a pushpull triode amp a pp 2a3 amp in particular.

Something to consider is that John DeVore personally uses an Icon Audio amp in his setup. If the designer of the speakers uses them probably worth considering - 

Also I watched a Steve Huff video last night you would probably enjoy, the valve amp looks like the kind of thing that would be ideal 

Some good recommendations in this thread however were I the OP I would take a serious look at the NAF Supreme 300B SE.

http://v2.stereotimes.com/post/new-audio-frontiers-supreme-300b-special-edition-integrated-amplifier/

I forgot to add that my listening room is a very large open space,; with high ceilings and no walls, so I will need a decent bit of power. With that in mind, would the Jadis still be more amp than I need for my efficient speakers?

@flipturn 

I have been thinking more about your description from an earlier post. You have a lot of cubic space in your listening environment and as a result power capability requires consideration (Even with the efficient O-96).  Certainly the safer more predictable choice is a push-pull amplifier.

I don’t know if you have a budget ceiling or not. The NAF amplifiers with DHT tubes running class A push-pull have been mentioned several times for good reason, but they are pricey. The Jadis DA 50S you originally inquired about are less expensive, yet still a highly regarded amplifier from a very established manufacturer.

You will get 30 watts of pure class A power from the KT  120 pentode tubes. Also very stout and good quality output transformers and probably a “bit” of NFB in the circuit (I could be wrong about the addition of NFB). As had been said previously, you have many really good options to contemplate over.

Charles

Thank you all so much for the thorough and thoughtful responses. I really appreciate it and am excited to explore the various amps you all recommended. I'm especially excited about the NAF 2A3 and Jadis. I can't to experience the O96s with one of these.

@tom23

Something to consider is that John DeVore personally uses an Icon Audio amp in his setup. If the designer of the speakers uses them probably worth considering -

Could you please share your source for the above statement? I’ve seen mention of John using Komura, Air Tight, Pass, Parasound, Shindo and the occasional Leben. Is it possible that you may have seen Icon use Devore speakers, however, I’ve seen no mention of Devore using Icon. I’m sure they are fine amps, just never seen them mentioned with Devore.

@ghasley - I went looking for the source and only found these videos

https://youtu.be/P_gJS_u6gWc

https://youtu.be/BDVfzCvqH8E

Maybe  over time my memory confused the icon amp with the emt amp? I had it in my head he used an icon amp. I even had a memory of the interviewer mentioning it and him saying something about it so I don't know, maybe it's in another location and I can't find the video, I might have to email them and ask.

here is the Denis Had amp that looked nice on Steve Huffs channel that uses 300b tubes https://youtu.be/l-lRvZVyZ0o

I have some research to do I suppose as I don’t know Class A from Class AB or what a pentode is.

Triodes get their name from having three elements- cathode, grid and plate. Pentodes have two more grids as a method of increasing efficiency, but they trade off the additional power they make for linearity. Triodes are about as linear as any amplifying device can get. That is why they can be used to make an amplifier with no feedback.

Class A is where the tube or transistor is conducting throughout the entire waveform. This is usually the most linear portion of the device’s operating curve. AB trades off greater efficiency for linearity. You will see this tradeoff a lot in audio. In class AB the device does not conduct thru the entire waveform; at some power level only one of the two devices (AB is not used in single-ended amplifiers) stops conducting and so the circuit draws less power. Usually class AB amplifiers will need some feedback to make up for the reduced linearity.

I really recommend that if you have a larger room to go with some kind of push pull amplifier. You’ll need the extra power! Its hard to make power and bandwidth at the same time- meaning that with single-ended amplifiers typically 7 Watts is the most power the amp can make and still have hifi frequency response. With push pull you can get amps that make 100 Watts before you start to run into this problem, which in both cases is caused by the output transformer.

There are class A triode amps that are push-pull and there are class AB pentode amps that are push-pull. So there can be a bit of variance in the sound as a result. Usually the pentode amps will have feedback while the triode amps often run none. Feedback can be really tricky because it can add distortion of its own while otherwise suppressing the innate distortion of the amp- leading to a harsher and brighter sound. Those that prefer the zero feedback amps usually do so on this basis- and often with the claim that zero feedback amps are more ’involving’. There is some scientific basis for such a claim, having to do with how the brain processes music. Its normally done in the limbic centers; otherwise transferred to the cerebral cortex if the brain detects an issue with the sound; if that happens the music can lose its emotional context.

@charles1dad 

I haven't yet figured out how to quote a post so forgive me for not including your message in my response. 

I'm hoping to remain under $12k for my amplifier but would be willing to extend my budget for an especially good amplifier if it's not that much more. I'm getting the impression, however, that you might think the Jadis gives me the most bang for my buck?

@flipturn

I have taken into consideration what you said you are sonically looking for and the size/volume of your listening space. As noted previously, you’ve received some really commendable recommendations. I admittedly lean toward DHT-SET options.

However given your stated budget and various factors discussed in this thread I believe that the Jadis DA 50S is a very compelling amplifier for your room and Orangutan-96 speakers.

Ample power in class A.

Push-pull topology with the KT 120.

Highly respected brand that’s very solidly established.

Their components just seem to consistently produce beautifully engaging sound quality.
I don’t believe that you could go wrong with them. Again, I really like the New Audio Frontier DHT push-pull amplifiers but these are quite outside of the stated budget range.

The Conrad Johnson amplifiers are an excellent alternative. Just my opinion but I think the Jadis class A amplifier will yield more of that elusive sonic/musical “magic” (Totally a gut feeling). And, they are so aesthetically elegant.😊

if your listening space weren’t so open and large, I’d push more aggressively toward SET such as what @davehg has.

Charles

Let's look at what John DeVore has as his top 5 amps