How can you see where you're going with your nose so far up in the air?
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I recently posted a video comparing two loudspeakers. The difference is very clearly audible. If you can’t hear the difference on that video, its not because of YouTube.
Well, as they say, the proof is in the pudding. Even on my smartphone speakers I can hear a clear difference between the Piega and the KEF. Using headphones only made it more obvious. For better or worse the latter seems to have an elevated treble response. That is an excellent video and I’d hope that everyone here can hear the difference between these 2 speakers. I wish you the best of luck with your channel.
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Just too many variables to draw any real world conclusions. Microphones sound different at various price points and the preamps they are plugged into are just as important. And you have to wonder does the YouTuber even know how to properly operate the equipment. Were the speakers volume matched? How loud are they really playing them. Some speakers can sound great at 80 dB but be dreadful at 90 dB or vice versa. |
"Would you choose a wife based on how she looked on YouTube? I hope not." It would depend upon the quality of the video... I chose my wife based upon how she looked/acted/sounded in a grocery store with bright off-putting lighting and poor acoustics (this was 33 years ago and I made the right choice/decision).
DeKay
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Yup. Totally ridiculous. But many of these guys have already said they can hear stuff that doesn't exist.
"In such cases you might want to run down to your local dealer and check it out for real." @jakleiss You're the cognitive psychologist, but don't you think you have the same problem? Are the differences we perceived actual differences? |
+1 @ronboco Agree completely. I would say (and do believe) that DIFFERENCES can be heard, but to ascribe a value to those said differences is sheer folly. Happy New Year to whole the damn gang! Regards, barts |
It seems you are moving the goal post. You started with complaining about Youtube but now you claim it is the bad recordings. That can happen with loss less formats too. And some Youtube videos have excellent recordings.
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And these YouTube reviews are not "recorded"....When the reviewer is playing a Beatles cut, I doubt it is live!......:-) |
Let us not forget, we are not talking about listening to a YouTube music stream.....We are talking about a reviewer setting up a microphone or his cell phone Infront of his system, recording the music, changing a piece of equipment and recording again, then downloading it to YouTube, most likely through his router....and then it goes over the internet, through your router and your amplifier and your speakers/headphones/IEM.....And you really think none of this is influencing the sound quality. And you think you can differentiate what piece of equipment at the reviewers end sounds better?........... |
+++++1 @noromance I enjoy saving memorable quotes. Thanks for this one: “Every man takes the limits of his own field of vision for the limits of the world.” - -Arthur Schopenhauer
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The interesting discussion is of course how much worth you should attribute to it, but claiming that differences cannot be heard is just factually wrong.
Of course it is. To deny that there is an audible difference is disingenuous to say the least. Maybe just blatantly dishonest. As someone once said, the truth will set you free. Perhaps that's the problem here, perhaps some vested interests here might prefer others to not be free?
As for how much worth we should give to these sonic differences, well that's always going to be a matter of personal choice. However, it is generally accepted amongst most audiophiles that the evidence of your own senses is more valuable than that of someone else's hearsay. I had a good firsthand experience of this only yesterday when I took my highly regarded PSB M4U1 headphones to compare against a friend's Philips Fidelio, Sennheiser 599 and HifiMan HE400 headphones. The PSBs were close enough to the Philips and Sennheisers to be considered a matter of taste, but they were all no match for the HE400s. Somehow, all of the reviewers I had previously read had forgotten to mention just how good planar magnetic headphones could be when it came to transient response and resolution. |
Audible differences between two types of component platforms can easily be heard on the following You Tube video. Even on a cell phone even without earbuds. Listen again thru your real device your High Fi. This type of simple and easy comparison could be performed and reviewed repeatedly by the listener, who is unsure of what they are hearing or searching for in musical quality.
In this instance, it’s easy to hear the difference between these two products in the same category and close to the same price points.
Why hasn’t a magazine or reviewer taken this comparison style on since I started asking for this type of review 20 years ago? I asked several over the years
Everyone would have saved a lot of time, angst, and money if someone had the brains and balls to perform such a service to the audio community.
Doesn’t a designer manufacturer want to know how their products stand up to the competition before they go to market? It appears they create a storyboard as a tool for those to see and read about rather than using a simple recording and playback method.
These manufacturers present misconstrued and poorly designed products to an audience who trust their brains and eyes failing to use their ears. After all, being a music lover is primarily about what information we experience through our ear canals and body feel. OK so let’s hear the comparison rather than reading about someone else telling us about how they experienced the product. There are at least 2 other You Tube videos from the same reviewer that present more info on these 2 products and how they differ in operation. Tom
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I've been listening to the jaysaudiolab channel on YouTube exclusively through my Samsung 4k tv via toslink to my big rig since he started. He plays enjoyable and resolute music. I've also watched/listened to countless other audio channels maybe almost 500-800 videos I'm guessing. The 2 outstanding channels IMO are jays and alphaaudio (the Dutch guys) Yes I hear small differences between his many multitude of megabuck amps, preamps, speakers, dacs, cables, servers etc. But they were small and hard to decide which was really better, only different, EXCEPT on 2 occasions that was blind (not knowing what brand or price), until the reveal. Jay demonstrating these 2 items took his rig to the next level to my ears and musical connection in 2 series of demos and were the most memorable/enjoyable and I could instantly tell they both served the music as it should be. So yes you can tell outstanding gear via YouTube but you have to slog through countless videos to find the real gems to aspire to, that are truly next or 2 levels up in the service of music. OK I'll end the suspense and tell you the 2 *whoa, what?* series of videos they were. 1) His Magico S7s 2) His new line of relatively reasonably priced cable looms he just started representing but can't remember the brand, they're from a smaller European country if memory serves me right BOTH OUTSTANDING and worth looking into IMHO.
YMMV..
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Why hasn’t a magazine or reviewer taken this comparison style on since I started asking for this type of review 20 years ago? I asked several over the years
Everyone would have saved a lot of time, angst, and money if someone had the brains and balls to perform such a service to the audio community.
The audio press today is little more than a standing joke, a mere ongoing entertainment barely propped up by the odd scant technical data here and there. I'd personally love to read about a direct comparison between the Q Acoustic Concept 500s, the Wharfedale Elysian 4s and the rather enigmatic Pearl Acoustics Sibelius. Given the unwillingness of the audio press to upset potential advertisers, friends, dealers, manufacturers etc this is never going to happen. Frankly there's rather more chance of the JFK assassination files being finally released. The magazine writers themselves are not stupid, they must know that something needs to change but other than move to a YouTube/ online channel, they or their employers, seem to be frozen totally unable or unwilling to take a risk with the printed media. I would guess that decades of a near monopoly in the printed media has resulted in a shocking level of risk aversion complacency which might now take its toll. |
Imagine that I took a pic on my cellphone of two different shades of white color samples from a paint store. Even on the worst uncalibrated computer monitor, you would be able to tell that there is a difference, and maybe even say one is slightly lighter, or slightly more blue. But SO WHAT!! If I were to then ask, "which color is better?", there's NO way you could assess that, because the photo is tainted by the light in the room, the camera used, and finally the monitor you are looking at. The .JPG compression and transmission of the photo does relatively little to make the whole thing meaningless. It's pointless to blame YouTube's bitrate in any of this. Even if they provided 24/96k, it would still all be meaningless. I would agree that you could say Speakers A are slightly brighter than Speakers B. But SO WHAT!! |
If I were to then ask, "which color is better?", there's NO way you could assess that, because the photo is tainted by the light in the room, the camera used, and finally the monitor you are looking at.
That's a good point. Things can get very murky without a consistent sonic point of reference. This has been previously referred to by the likes of Toole and Olive who talk of audios circle of confusion. Their hope is that that the use of more consistent, better measured loudspeakers in recording studios will go a long way towards eliminating this circle of confusion. Otherwise, vintage recordings made and mastered on vastly different monitors are likely to sound substantially different when played back on loudspeakers built today. Thankfully when it comes to colour reproduction we already have a reference. International colour charts such as the British Standards Colour chart linked below. I became aware of such charts after reading that Morrissey used such a chart to instruct his record company on the exact shade of green he wanted for the Smiths brilliant 'The Queen is Dead' album.
Having such a familiar reference always helps us poor humans whenever we are comparing things as we ourselves seem to be rather more inconsistent than most electronic equipment.
I would agree that you could say Speakers A are slightly brighter than Speakers B. But SO WHAT!! That alone could be an enormous help to someone drawing up a shortlist for audition purposes.
https://seanolive.blogspot.com/2009/10/audios-circle-of-confusion.html?m=1
https://britishstandardcolour.com/
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Its not ideal but I think its useful to see if you can hear relative differences between two components in the same video. It’s not going to give you an absolute impression of how each component sounds but rather a relative comparison between the two. Someone above posted an example of taking a photo of two colors with a cellphone and then sending them to someone and asking them which one is better. I would say thats not the correct analogy. The proper analogy would be to take a picture with your cellphone of two different colors of white... lets take Benjamin Moore "White Dove" and then Benjamin Moore "Chantilly Lace" and then sending them to someone to ask which one they like better. Both of these colors are white. However, White dove has a tiny bit of black and yellow in it, and Chantilly Lace has a tiny bit of Black and Blue in it. Seeing them on their own they look like white... however in a cell phone picture side by side you can definitely see the difference. Now, can you tell from those pictures how each of those colors will look in a room, probably not. However if you know you want a "cool" white rather than a "warm" white and you want to know the relative difference between the two then the cellphone picture can do that. |
Whipsaw...Com'on Man!...You know the difference. The Photographer is "One on One".......Same as a musician mixing a recording on his computer with his monitors right there in front of him......The Photographer isn't using a Micky Mouse camera to send a photo over the internet through who knows what routers and who knows what receiving monitor , for a real time appraisal....
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You're missing the point. The poster made a very poor analogy. But I have also previously linked to a speaker video that is very well recorded, and does indeed give a good feel for the quality of the component. Of course a fair comparison would require that both components are equally well recorded, etc. But it absolutely is possible to glean valuable insights from such videos. Would I suggest buying on that basis alone? Of course not! But for that matter, it can even be treacherous to purchase on the basis of an in-person audition at a dealer, as the room and or associated components may produce a very different sound. |
Total nonsense.....You are not listening to what was recorded....You are listening to everything between what was recorded and your ears..... I can't believe you are continuing to defend this foolishness..... But its your right and I appreciate the feedback. |
You tell me. Responses have gotten overly heated over such a small matter that it begs the question that there's an underlying (latent) reason. Could it be that after listening to some of the better recorded YouTube videos, the difference between them and what some are streaming isn't that great? If so, that would hurt the ego as well as the pocketbook. Could it also be that some simply can't hear the obvious differences? Same result as above. Could it be that some just like to argue? Well, that's been established here a long time ago. So many teapots, so many tempests.....what's an audiophile to do? All the best,
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@rbertalotto Your argument seems to be that it either isn’t possible for someone to a) utilize a high-quality recording b) play it through high-quality, well-matched components c) record the results in a high-quality audio/video format and post it online or...even if the three above steps are taken, the audio quality of Youtube is insufficient to allow listeners to discern anything meaningful about individual components. I consider both positions to be indefensible, and have supported my position by linking to an example of the former.
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I couldn't have summed it up better......This is EXACTLY my position.....Now, this said, I'm done with this subject. On to other bigger and better topics...Be well my friend!
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Responses have gotten overly heated over such a small matter that it begs the question that there’s an underlying (latent) reason.
There is an underlying reason and you don’t have to have live at 221b Baker Street, London to discern it. It is certainly no small matter if you are an audio equipment dealer. Not small matter at all.
In any case, the gates of the dam have been blown wide open and most of us welcome these developments. There’s simply no going back now, and I believe canny dealers would do well to get on this particular bandwagon before it leaves town without them. Who knows, if the viewers like the sound of what they hear posted online by a particular local dealer, they might want to check it out in person for themselves. |
Great point, which is why some go to great lengths to ensure the best possible recording they can. There are even some reviewers who advise to wear a set of good headphones since they record and playback binaurally. Granted, it's not the same as streaming but it's not as low-fi as some would have you believe. All the best,
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Let's forget hifi Let's go back to the old time when we can only hear music through the radio. Tell me;can you make your comment of the sony you heard? It is good,It is not good,It is bad. I will,and most of people will make their judgement. It is that simple! Why the issue become complicated when we are in HiFi field?
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@nonoise https://begthequestion.info/ |
@noromance , i stand corrected, in good company. 😄 |
@nonoise 😀 |
