Thoughts on DAC option


Current DAC is the original Auralic Vega . This was a HUGE upgrade in sound quality from a Cambridge Audio DAC Magic.

And things are good right now. Well, mostly, it's not like we are generally blessed with freedom from the desire to upgrade!

And now I have an option of a Chord 2qute. My main issue with the current setup is the fatigue on some music. EDM is generally fantastic, however rock is often harsh. Voices are great.

So the question is whether the Chord could smooth off the sharper edges of things.

All feedback gratefully received.

System is:

Sources - PC and Auralic Aries Mini

Amp - Prima Luna Frank Hybrid Integrated

Speakers - Krix Harmonix 2

Interconnects and speaker cables are average but not the biggest factor here from what I can tell.

incoming

What’s your budget and are you looking for new or used?  Where are you located?

Changing DAC won’t fix that problem. Biggest culprits there are recording quality, room acoustics, speakers and inadequate bass. Top end harshness can be balanced out by adding a sub. 

I ran Auralic Vega some years ago, this not your issue, Vega exposing some other weakness in system.

Your DAC seems solid, I would not change it to try and solve this problem. Do you notice a difference when streaming from the PC vs. the Mini? In both cases, what type of connection are you using to connect to the DAC?

Speaker performance and interaction with room acoustics have by far the biggest impact on sound quality. You might want to consider getting a measurement microphone and putting the REW program on a laptop. Then run a frequency sweep and review the results. You may be surprised as to how uneven the response is. That can be addressed with acoustic room treatments, adjusting speaker placement, and/or adding room correction.  I added room correction to my system and got an improvement in SQ that was well beyond any equipment change I've made. 

There have been many good suggestions so far. In addition, I would experiment with the filter options on the Vega. When I owned one years ago, they definitely could impact the sound. This will not make huge changes, but it's free.

You might benefit from a EQ in the system to take down the top end of the Krix by 2-5 dB when you are playing rock. In looking at the graphs in Australian hi-fi, the response, though smoother and flatter than most, does rise by a few dB between 1 kHz and 10 kHz. This definitely could manifest as sounding "harsh" on many current recordings. 

 

If I were you, and, because your speakers and components seem quite satisfactory, I'd start with doing some experimenting with your cabling.  Cables can make or break any quality audio system.  Happy listening.       

Vega has a pretty decent DAC section and built-in analog preamp designed to minimize distortion and noise. So I agree with all the gentlemen suggesting you leave the Vega as is and focus on the cabling instead. Refining cables to tune the sound is a great approach—it works in my system, though it does cost money. Speaking from my own experience, if someone as frugal as I am doesn’t mind spending on cables, nothing should stop you.

When it comes to interconnect cables, DH Labs and Cardas are two affordable brands worth considering. In general, DH Labs’ silver-plated series offers more dynamics and punch in the low end, while Cardas’ pure copper provides a smoother presentation. Both feature gas injection to vacuum the line, reducing dielectric constant and capacitance that sort of good stuff.  The choice ultimately comes down to personal taste. Beyond their price point, the law of diminishing returns kicks in—and it’s up to you to decide whether you want to go further down that rabbit hole.

You might consider a network filter.  If placed before your streamer it can smooth thing out by reducing jitter.  It did for me.  Good luck.

Even if the DAC was your culprit (which I highly doubt), a Chord would be a poor choice of replacement. They are not remotely smooth or analog sounding IME. 

I wonder what the output impedance is of your hybrid amp. If it is relatively high like some other Prima Lunas, that could be your issue. 

Thank-you all for your insights, very much appreciated.  A few questions to address:

Budget is flexible but should be in line with the system as a whole.  I'm in New Zealand and the system as a whole is currently sitting around NZD 20k.

In terms of cabling / connections:
The PC is connected to the Vega via a Supra USB cable.  
The streamer is connected via a Kimber Illumin digital coax cable.
The interconnect from DAC to AMP is an Audioquest King Cobra.  I tried the AQ Water, but it just sounded odd in terms of imaging so went back to the King Cobra. Now wondering if the Cardas Pure Copper could improve on this.
Speaker Cables are Transparent Audio Laboratory Musicwave Plus 10AWG.  Currently bi-wired.

The mini sounds clearer to me, but has more of the issue.

The microphone suggestion is something I have been thinking for a while.  The room is a known big issue, large, tall ceilings, prone to echoes, odd shape, just about everything you don't want.  Measuring would be very revealing. There is a definite base bump at about double the listening distance, and this does smooth things out somewhat. I do wonder whether any changes made to accommodate the bad room could be detrimental to the system in a good room.

The Vega filters, interesting, I will try this again. When this was first added to the system I had a play, but couldn't hear any difference. That said, several upgrades have been made since that could reveal this.  Each time I feel like the sound is technically better, but somehow less engaging. 

EQ, I've not explored options for this.  Wouldn't know where to start.  I'd prefer to find a permanent balance if possible.

And a couple of comments that strongly indicate the Chord sound won't be helping things here. The 2Qute is currently sitting at NZD720 with a linear power supply. Tempted to secure it for a second system in the future.  The problem with New Zealand is the lack of ability to try before you buy. You either buy and sell again if it isn't a good fit or find someone willing to lend you their gear...

Network Filter could be an option for the PC, but the mini is connected via WiFi. Auralic recommend this approach.

Output impedance is an interesting question. I don't have answers, but an interesting question! I can only find information on the pre-amp section:
"The first tube boosts the input voltage by only 7dB (2.24 times) while the other two tubes, connected in parallel in repeater mode, are matched to a transistor termination. In such a set-up, the output impedance is radically reduced, allowing the MOSFETS to do their job with minimal distortion."

The other improvements previously mentioned are:

  • AMP power cable - Isotek Ultima
  • Pre-Amp tubes - military grade Brimar 12AU7
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Even though Auralic recommends WiFi over Ethernet, swapping to an Ethernet cable for my Auralic Aries g2.1 improved clarity and cleaned up tie end a bit. 
however I would not expect this to solve your problem. 

I don’t have better suggestions than what was already shared.

 

Network Filter could be an option for the PC, but the mini is connected via WiFi. Auralic recommend this approach.

You should get a Wi-Fi extender or Mesh system and run an Ethernet cable from that to your streamer as it bypasses the typically cheap Wi-Fi receiver in the streamer and usually results in better sound.  You could then also do a trial of something like a Stack SmoothLan filter that might help in your situation.  Best of luck. 

If you think changing the DAC will improve on that harsh frequency area, Chord will not help but we can try a R2R DAC. There are few that are not expensive and those DAC in general are a little more relaxed in that frequency area. Still keeping the details. 

I was in the same camp with a Pontus II and switched to an Audio Mirror Tubadour and the difference is remarkable. 

@glenmschneider  @soix the streamer is close enough to the router to give this a shot. I'll see where this takes me, along with the Vega filters. Google on the way for the smoothlan.

@miguelderivero an R2R has been on my mind. May have a route to try before I buy on this one. 

@fastricky the Tubadour is intriguing. Unfortunately looks like one of the many options i would struggle to see down here at the bottom of the World. Keeping my eyes open though as it sounds very promising for my tastes.

Great suggestsuggestia good variety of price points. I do love these forums and the people in them so willing to share their knowledge. Thank-you.

@incoming Used Tubadours are plentiful on USAudioMart.com, worth the plunge if you're looking for warm analog like tone. 

Much cleaner than a couple of Mullards I tried, that's for sure.  Also picked up some pretty well priced Jan Sylvania military spec tubes, but waiting until the Brimars have done their dash.  An Audiogon member rated those in his Prima Luna.

Which I now realise I put in the description as Frank frown

The amp is actually the EVO 300 Hybrid Integrated - Floyd

The Audio Mirror Tubadore V is 110v and would need to be modified to run on 240v.  Assume the rest of the Tubadore range is the same.

From Audio Mirror:

It can be converted, but need some soldering inside.
I can convert it if you send it to me.
Vlad 
 

Adding this detail here in case anyone searches for similar information.

Have you considered getting a Umic and take a measurement of your system AND room before you buy any new components instead of treatment 🤔??

The Audio Mirror Tubadore V is 110v and would need to be modified to run on 240v.  Assume the rest of the Tubadore range is the same.

From Audio Mirror:

It can be converted, but need some soldering inside.

I can convert it if you send it to me.

Vlad 

 

Adding this detail here in case anyone searches for similar information.

Good point!