thoft
I hope your 3.5 loudspeakers find the next good home soon.
This is a very popular model among the Panel.
Happy Listening!
I hope your 3.5 loudspeakers find the next good home soon.
This is a very popular model among the Panel.
Happy Listening!
Thiel Owners
Guys-
I just scored a sweet pair of CS 2.4SE loudspeakers. Anyone else currently or previously owned this model?
Owners of the CS 2.4 or CS 2.7 are free to chime in as well. Thiel are excellent w/ both tubed or solid-state gear!
Keep me posted & Happy Listening!
I just scored a sweet pair of CS 2.4SE loudspeakers. Anyone else currently or previously owned this model?
Owners of the CS 2.4 or CS 2.7 are free to chime in as well. Thiel are excellent w/ both tubed or solid-state gear!
Keep me posted & Happy Listening!
13,501 responses Add your response
tomthiel, I share your concerns about "pro" vs. "high-end" cable controversies. I've had a chance to compare Belden 1800F XLRs to several "mid-end" interconnects, and I much prefer other cables to the Beldens. In my system, the Beldens are a bit harsh sounding, with lack of fullness in the bass and an overall lack of refinement. I haven't listened to the Benchmark XLRs, but they apparently use Canare Star Quad L-4E6S wire with Neutrik connectors. In reading cable discussions by several pro audio folks on a pro gear forum, I've noticed that many of them prefer Grimm TPR to any of the Mogami, Canare, or Belden wire, and some seem to feel that star-quad XLRs don't sound as good as other geometries in situations where going all-out to reduce noise is not a major requirement. Lately, I've seen positive comments about Vovox unshielded wire and a new cable from GhostCables designed to sound better than Grimm while not costing as much as Vovox. As far as long XLRs go, I may try a Grimm TPR pair or possibly the new GhostCables XLRs to see how they perform compared to my current Cardas Clear Reflection XLRs. I'll post some comments if I decide to invest the $150 needed to buy an 18-foot pair of "pro" XLRs. I guess that's a pretty small investment in the interest of advancing my own personal home version of "cable science." |
ydjames, It's great to hear from someone who has heard the Qln Prestige 3 in several systems. I'm still very much committed to my Thiel 2.2s, especially when I think about how much it would cost to replace my Thiels with anything that would sound as good. However, I'm always on the lookout for great-sounding back-up options to consider if my 2.2s develop problems that can't be easily repaired. I'll have to look into the Tellurium Q cables as I explore ongoing cable options. |
sdecker Hahahaha! Well, I guess I could say that I played a huge part in the "near-identical" components. My friend and I are clear about the sound signature of our speakers, as he himself likes the Thiels. We came to an agreement that we can live with either. However, if I had to draw a line between the two... I'd say that Thiel CS2.7 has a "take no prisoners" policy going on while QLN Prestige 3 is striking a good balance between law and compassion. One thing to note - both speakers are extremely sensitive to the choice of the power amp. In my opinion, it could be said that they take the "flavour" from the upstream. |
These people like them! https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2020/05/15/qln-prestige-three-loudspeaker-review/ https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2021/07/25/qln-prestige-one-loudspeakers-review/ [with comments on the five] |
Sdl4 - pro / high-end contains very valid concerns. I find it fascinating how people limit their bandwidths when approaching complex subjects. Benchmark makes undeniably great products and John Siau is an obviously world-class designer. I broached the subject of wire with him and his response was that the star quad configuration cancels all relevant distortions and is therefore as good as it gets. (my simplification.) I brought up "teflon" vs polypropylene dielectrics, and metal purity, crystal structure and surface polish. He dismissed those elements as irrelevant. My personal history proved those elements to be relevant and audible. People admit what they can understand and effective people tend to reject what they can't cope with. You might be well served to get some Benchmark and Morrow (on sale) for direct comparison. Please report back. |
Hi sdl4, I have heard the QLN Prestige 3 and perhaps I can share my thoughts about it. At my local dealer's showroom, I find the QLN Prestige 3 is a wonderful pair of speakers. It is predominantly musical sound profile with the ability to throw the soundstage behind the speakers and (when needed) project forward. It is very three dimensional if you will. A close friend of mine owns a pair of QLN Prestige 3. His system configuration looks something like this: Source - Melco DAC - Mola Mola Tambaqui Preamp - Benchmark LA4 Power amp - Benchmark AHB2 (mono) x2 Cables - a mix of Tellurium Q Silver Diamond (USB & Speaker cable) and Acrolink Mexcel 3300 XLRs. When it is in my friend's system, I find the QLN Prestige 3 was another level above. Music had skin, body, flesh and bone. The coherency and imaging are palpable and firm. For what it is and the system, it is resolving, detailed, yet has a good balance between neutral sound and musical flow. The overall sonic performance can rock hard with its tremendous bass and transient snares, while it can also create a jazz bar ambience that is smooth and relaxing. The real takeaway for me with Prestige 3 and Tellurium Q is the overall "flow" of music. I find it hard to articulate but my experience tells me that I enjoyed the music so much more than I could imagine, and it sounded "just right". Even in my system (Benchmark LA4 and AHB2 monos), I am using Tellurium Q Ultra Silver XLRs and Speaker Cable with Thiel 2.7. |
jafant, Hope you find the perfect cables for your system soon. By the way, I noticed that the same dealers that carry SwissCables also often carry the Swedish Qln speakers, which appear to be getting lots of positive reviews. I saw that the Qln speakers are designed with time-aligned drivers, but I'm not sure they use the first-order crossovers used in Thiels. Have you ever heard any of the Qln models or know anything more about them? |
tomthiel, Thanks for your comments regarding pro audio cables (like Mogami and Benchmark) compared to your reference Straight Wire and Benchmark cables. I've been worried that pro audio cables may not sound quite as good in some ways compared to some more expensive options designed for for home audio, and your comments suggest that this may be a valid concern. |
sdl4 Good to see you again. Yes, back in May I had my 1st Swisscable audition. I say 1st, because the dealer/retailer had a technical difficulty with his Audio Hungary amp. A 2nd demo is slated for October due to my work schedule. By that time, any/all bugs will be worked out of the amp. No. I have not auditioned Pro-Level cables/cords. I am not opposed to any Cabling options (consumer nor pro). Thank You for sharing Cardas' ability to play well within a Thiel -based system. The experts report that this newest generation is not as warm (rolled off) as the older offerings. Happy Listening! |
@brettmcee Quality Ranking’ of all available Thiel speaker modelsI owned both CS3.6 and CS5i at the same time. The 3.6 is a good speaker but the 5i is at a whole higher level. More refined and cleaner. To my ears, its like a veil is removed when listening to the 5i after the 3.6. One thing I did enjoy with the the 3.6 was the bass. That ten inch woofer just produces bass differently than two or three smaller woofers and is very attractive... Just my two cents; have not owned any other Thiel. |
@thoft ...How was the levinson blah...I dug up this old thread regarding my amp search: "Parasound Halo JC-1 for Thiel CS 5i". Hopefully, it is not too boring and my ignorance not too laughable. I guess my memory must be going as I seemed to like the Levison more than I recall. The interesting thing is that I have updated my digital front end and I wonder how these amps might sound now. My DNA-500 can effortlessly drive the CS5i's to any volume level that I can bear to hear. My listening position is ten feet from the speakers and everything is sounding good to me at 85 decibels with no degradation of treble peaks or bass line. I typically listen at 65 to 70 decibels so a lot of the time its like I am bringing a shot gun to a balloon popping contest, except when I need the oomph for a dynamic peak. Thanks for listening, Dsper |
@sdl4 I use the Benchmark XLR cables from my CODA 07x preamp to the CODA #8 amp into my Thiel CS3.7. I need 15 feet of length and the quality to cost ratio is excellent. For this situation short XLR cable is not better. I do not think with pro gear, that likely are adhering to the AES48 XLR standard (like CODA and Benchmark) need fancy interconnects. I was using a Benchmark preamp and AHB2 monos to my Thiels prior to the yesterday and they also sounded great with the Benchmark XLR’s (just not big but that is a function of the amp). For my sources, I use Audience AU24 SE cables. The main reason is that I had a very old and 15 foot Audience AU24 and I recently got it chopped up and upgraded to AU24 SE level. It was a bit better from the sources to my Benchmark preamp versus some Benchmark XLR’s, except the Benchmark DAC3B to the preamp. I could not tell a difference with that source (again pro gear). The cable that made the biggest difference was the speaker cable. Another XLR I recently bought is the RED one from WyWire. Alex from WW seems to be very knowledgeable from his writing and his cables sound great. The one I have cost around $200. BTW - I moved the Benchmark stack downstairs to the big living room to pair with the KEF LS50’s. I will be replacing these speakers with a bigger speaker that does not go to 2 Ohms like the Thiel. The CODA #8 is much better suited for the Thiel CS3.7 though I do prefer the sound of the BM stack. I will likely get a KEF Reference 1 or Yamaha NS5000 to pair with the BM stack. I need to sell a KRELL K300i integrated to fund the speakers, which is great with the CS3.7, if anyone is interested. |
I just hooked up a pair of mono block Ampzilla 2000’s to my CS6. Boy it that a luscious sound! And with new shimmer that my system has been missing. Of the two monos one of their peak lights is coming on all the time. Gonna probably have them sent in for a good once over… I think now I need to find the proper speaker cabling. There’s still a little low-mid upper-low ‘bloat’ After coming from the Infinity Kappa 7’s and 8’s where the bass is perfectly taught, powerful and nimble, the CS6’s still sound a bit ‘stretched’ or ‘rubbery’. All the drivers in my CS6’s need repair, so… |
| Post removed |
I’m curious. How was the levinson blah since I was not able to get one. My model 25 classe has so been extremely nice to listen to I feel like it takes a little edge off but not too much. Just gives it the right amount of naturalness and timbre. The adcom would get stressed at louder volumes vs the classe which handles it with ease and extremely clean dynamics. |
@john_5912 I'm currently between amps and now am trying to find reasonably priced, high powered, and high performing amps that will last.The 3.7's, similar to my 5is, need an amp that can double down to 2 ohms. It took me a couple of years to find an amp. I have the good fortune to live near an audio store whose owner let me take used stuff home to try. Large Levison (blah to me), Krell (too shouty), Classe (too soft), among others, did not do it for me. I had a Coda at 300wpc into 8 ohms that sounded good until I cranked it up and then the sound became strained and harsh. I liked a Pass X350 but the more recent models were too much for my pocket book. I stumbled across a McCormack DNA-500 out of Pennsylvania and am very happy with it. To my hearing, the only thing it lacks compared to the Pass is that last bit of black, so silent background. Thanks for listening, Dsper |
sdl4 - not Grimm, but yes Mogami and Benchmark. The pro brands I have tried perform adequately, but always come up with less ultimate resolution and 'you are thereness' against my references, which include some upper end Straightwire and Morrow. My previous setup as shown in my virtual system put all the gear including speakers at the same end of the room. Next time I'll go for even shorter runs of both interconnects and speaker cable. As shorter is better. |
jafant, I'm glad you are still carefully considering a range of cable options for your system. I seem to remember that you were going to arrange another demo of SwissCables sometime soon. Is that still going to happen? I am very happy with the Cardas Clear Reflection XLRs I'm using between my DAC and preamp and between my preamp and monoblocks, which drive my Thiel 2.2 speakers. The Clear Reflection cables provide a good degree of detail without being hyper-resolving. They also allow a very natural fullness or richness to flow from my system. I'm no longer experiencing significant listening fatigue, even with older, poorly recorded music, and well-recorded music sounds fantastic. I'm still thinking, though, that I may be able to improve on my speaker cables a bit. I'm currently using Cardas Parsec speaker cables, which are decent for the price but are positioned in the middle of the current Cardas line. I'd like to try Clear Reflection speaker cables, but the cost for a 26-foot run is out of my price range. So now I'm looking at the possibility of reducing the length of my speaker cables to a more reasonable 8 feet by using longer (18 foot) XLRs between my preamp and amps. This change would allow me to try some higher end speaker wire without breaking the budget. A pair of 18-foot Clear Reflection interconnects would be quite expensive, though, so I've been considering trying some pro-audio XLR interconnects made with Grimm TPR wire if I were to move my amps closer to the 2.2s but farther away from the rest of my audio equipment. The cost would be less than $150 for a pair of Grimm XLRs. Have you or any other Thiel owners ever tried pro-audio interconnects like the Grimm with any success? |
I don't have a lot of experience with many different Thiels but my favorites are probably my 2 2s. My 3.7s are technically better but they're kind of a pain. I'm currently between amps and now am trying to find reasonably priced, high powered, and high performing amps that will last. What a hassle. The 2 2s sound great with moderate power. I can hook them up to a moderately priced receiver and enjoy the heck out of them. Their inherent qualities sort of encourage listening to music and ignoring audiophile foolishness. |
@jafant Which brand of Silver IC did you purchase?Stager Silver Solids. Quote from Marc Stager: "...it is not how a cable makes music sound great. It's about how it allows music to sound great by not hindering its transmission in any way>>>" I do not know much about interconnects and was taught "when in doubt, do not buy". I never used silver interconnects before so i thought I would give these a try as they are not thousands of dollars. My old interconnects were Synergistic Research Alphas - again, not much money. Another Audiogoner (C6 owner) had suggested SR interconnects might tame the Thiel tweeters and this person was correct but that was with my Theta ProBasic III DAC. My Mystique DAC is at a higher level and I thought now is the time to see if my ears could handle the silver in the context of a much better DAC. The Mystique has given me a more fleshed out soundstage and solidness and better images while the silver interconnects have allowed more presence. And the tweeters are liking it. Not sure what is next. Based on reviews, the Mystique Evo is a better DAC. Not sure what to do about interconnects. Thanks for listening, Dsper |
dsper Good to see you here again. Thank You for the follow up on model CS5i loudspeakers. I knew that a few Panel members are represented. Cable discussion(s) are never off-topic. In fact, Cabling, is not discussed enough, IMO. Which brand of Silver IC did you purchase? The Audio Journey is worth it! Happy Listening! |
The best sound I have now gotten out of my Thiel CS3.7 is with the new CODA #8. It is spec’d perfectly for the CS3.7. An excellent match for the CS3.7. I moved my Benchmark monos to my RAAL SR1a headphones. I am done. BTW - I am using the Benchmark speaker cable with SpeakON connection. I had the CODA #8 built with SpeakON termination. |
@Jefant ...Bass is certainly not bloated/flabby regarding Thiel Audio...I have CS5i's and certainly agree that their bass is tight and also nuanced...if you have a good source (and amp). My old thinking was that the source would impact the treble more than the bass. Not true. I run a PWT and recently acquired a Mystique V3 DAC, which improved sound across the board and things are fine at any volume - low and high. The bass is full without bloat and there is added detail that helps the sound seem more solid. The Mystique also helped expand the soundstage especially laterally. This has reaffirmed my faith in the Thiels and slowed down the new speaker search. Not to go off topic, but I also recently switched to silver interconnects, which brought more presence to the tweeters and improved the live sound. So far the CS5i's are not the weak link in my system. However, my experience is that I have had to spend some bucks and not try to go with the latest "giant killer" gear. Thanks for listening, Dsper |
gwgjr31 Good to see you here again. Thank You for the CS5 and CS 7.2 comparison. You are fortunate to own both models. I concur, in that, Bass is certainly not bloated/flabby regarding Thiel Audio. Better descriptors are accurate, taut, Bass. These definitions ring true in models CS 2.4, 2.4SE, 2.7 and 3.7 speakers. Happy Listening! |
| Post removed |
Unsound - the CS5's low impedance is restricted to the very low frequencies. It is about 2 ohms from 20 to 50 and drops to about 1.6 at 10Hz. But there is little power required down there- the low rolloff is to minimize phase shift at the deep fundamental musical foundation. John Siau (Benchmark designer) says no problem for the AHB-2 in stereo mode. |
Brett - your point is why Jim refused to endorse bi / multi-wiring. Indeed everything can be screwed up and he firmly believed in Murphy's Law. Indeed we would abide by reason, using identical amps and speaker cable runs, and actually keep phase integrity somewhat better because intermodulation and other cable propagation artifacts would be minimized via multiple sources. |
A thought proposal: Multi-amp CS5s. Over the years I’ve heard comments regarding CS5 performance that sound a lot like amplifier misbehavior than speaker limitations. My experience with the CS5, with the Krell FPB-600 and other big guns, doesn’t include flabby bass, anemic transients and brittle highs. (Note, I think the low impedance load is brutal and inexcusable . . . but) great sound can be achieved with great amps. CS5 owners please share your relevant experience. My thought proposal is to wire a pair of CS5s for multi-amp inputs. Configuration A: bi-amp. One channel on subs and upper woofers. Other channel on top 3 drivers.Configuration B: tri-amp. One channel on subs, other on upper woofer. Third amp (one stereo channel) on mids-tweeter.Three amps required. All run in stereo due to low impedance load.This idea is inspired by the excellent performance of the Benchmark AHB-2 and its relative affordability at $3K / each. The CS5 internal access is feasible because each driver circuit is routed independently to the binding posts, as are all Thiels. My interest springs from my love of sealed bass performance and a product which didn't meet its market potential; only 500 pairs were built. My homework is to learn more about the present bass limitations for developing replacement woofers with ScanSpeak. Any and all feedback is welcome. |