mr_bill
thosb, enjoys the CS 2.3 loudspeaker. Perhaps he will see this post and chime-in on its merits. Happy Listening!
thosb, enjoys the CS 2.3 loudspeaker. Perhaps he will see this post and chime-in on its merits. Happy Listening!
Thiel Owners
Guys-
I just scored a sweet pair of CS 2.4SE loudspeakers. Anyone else currently or previously owned this model?
Owners of the CS 2.4 or CS 2.7 are free to chime in as well. Thiel are excellent w/ both tubed or solid-state gear!
Keep me posted & Happy Listening!
I just scored a sweet pair of CS 2.4SE loudspeakers. Anyone else currently or previously owned this model?
Owners of the CS 2.4 or CS 2.7 are free to chime in as well. Thiel are excellent w/ both tubed or solid-state gear!
Keep me posted & Happy Listening!
13,533 responses Add your response
jafant -- "Which brand(s) of cabling are you using in your set-up?" Interconnects in Naim systems are pretty much limited to Naim cables due to the din connectors. I use their "standard" interconnects; there are higher-level Naim interconnects available (and custom Chord cables I think) but they're all very expensive individually and prohibitively expensive if I wanted to change all my interconnects. I've upgraded the standard Naim power cords and now use Shunyata Viper Zitrons and noticed significant improvement. My speaker cable is Naim NACA5; Naim specifies use of their speaker cable because Naim amps are designed to work with a specific load. I'd like to try different speaker cables and plan to give it a try, but only after I get my other system issues resolved. |
tomthiel -- Thank you. I'm happy to hear that you're working on the modifications for the 3.6s and then plan to offer completed crossover boards through CSS. That's great news for the many CS3.6 owners. Would you possibly be able to provide a rough estimate of when you think the crossovers would be available? |
thielrules PRAT is "pace-rhythm-and timing"; it refers to a system that is fast and detailed, with precise stop-start timing of notes. Naim (and other brands) believes PRAT is an essential element of a good system, and put more weight on those aspects rather than the qualities that most audiophiles generally strive for - such as imaging/depth/etc. IMO, Naim's better amps do a better job of providing PRAT than the Bryston 7B STs that I previously owned. I did try both parallel and series connections when connecting the Brystons to the Thiels; one did sound better - but don't remember which - but the better connection still was inferior to my current setup. |
I am gathering the parts to start the 2.4 upgrade in earnest, including most caps, coils, and board from Tom Thiel. I plan to post a journal of the process, including pics. I don’t see a way to include pics on Audiogon, though. I might use audioasylum to host those, if not the whole thing. Anyone here have a better idea of how to keep it on a’gon but include pics? |
I am using Kimber 8TC for Main, 4TC for rear and center. DH Labs Silver Sonic IC. I got a
Sony ES TA-P9000ES 1st but later run directly from OPPO to Amp. Amazing sound. I combined HT and SACD system into one. For 2 channel system, it is very hard to position a pair of speaker. For SACD multi-channel. Just draw a circle and use angle to measure the speaker position, super easy, esp if you have five identical speakers. |
mr_bill Welcome back. I can speak to the effect of the CS 1.6 , CS 2.4 , CS 2.7 and CS 3.7 models. The CS 1.6 is a nice 2-way speaker for the casual listener in a small to medium sized room. A subwoofer will compliment this model nicely if you want a little more low-end response. Great speaker for a near-field application as well. Next, the CS 2.4 is a sweet spot and honey of a loudspeaker to boot. There are several pairs now on eBay. An outstanding 3-way, IMO. Models CS 2.7 and CS 3.7 were Mr. Jim Thiel's last design which featured a modern coaxial and wavy - appearanced drivers. To date, I still wonder the number of pairs built for each loudspeaker. All models feature beautiful and well braced cabinets, sloped baffles, for optimum performance. And do they ever deliver the musical goods!I cannot speak to the CS 1.5 , 2.3 nor 3.6 models. I want to report that the CS 2.2 and CS 2.3 are represented somewhere within this thread. Check out Audio Asylum and AVS Forum, as there are a few owners across those sites. If you have not done so, read this thread starting with post #1 to the present. An incredible amount of information is available. Happy Listening! |
Rosami - the 3.6 is on my to-do hot-rod list. In fact, I have bought a pair and have created the upgrade schematic and layout. The timing issue summarizes as follows: I began work on this project Spring 2018 when 'New Thiel' closed down its business operations. Much research, preparations and preliminaries have been accomplished since that time. However, I am neither retired nor fully up-to-date in the audio world and considerable reading and interacting have been required. I am presently building my PowerPoint and CS2.2 upgrades and Beetlemania's 2.4 kit of parts is on its way to him. We will digest what we learn and then I will approach the 3.6 next. I intend to develop and offer through Coherent Source Service an array of products for each product. The least invasive will be fully assembled crossovers which you will install in your cabinets, with local technical help if required. Your situation illustrates our target customer: someone who loves his classic Thiels and hopes for a significant upgrade path which utilizes his extant, appreciated speakers. It is my considered hope that the upgraded 3.6 will please you very well. |
Yes I acquired a pair of Thiel CS.5 for $100, The owner is leaving for UK so I got this small cute. Will used it with my 2.2 to form a DSD 5.0 listening environment. I use a Lexicon 512 (aka Bryston 9B-ST) to drive them, using Oppo 205 as source player. Amazing sound and listening experience. For those only listening to 2 channel, you should try SACD multi-channel. Unmatched acoustic. |
rosami Thank You for sharing your listening experience with the Bryston, Thiel, combination. Naim is a very fine brand and it is good to learn that there is a synergy on Thiel loudspeakers. You are the first contributor to post owning both brands that I have read across multiple Audio forums to date. If you find that replacing the driver(s) in your 3.6 model, I feel that you may be pleasantly surprised owning the CS 2.4 or CS 2.7 speaker. Much Thanks for the compliments on this thread. On board are DIY guys, Experts and Fans of our beloved speakers. There are many of you vintage owners as well. All of these factors do indeed make for a go-to reference experience. I look forward in reading more about your Audio journey and musical preferences. Happy Listening! |
tomthiel & jafant: I'm a relative newbie to forums (so please excuse any forum etiquette faux pas) but a long-time audiophile and Thiel enthusiast (33 years), first with 03a's and now with 3.6's (owned for 21 years). I've read through many of the forum posts regarding the various Thiel crossover and component upgrades and am impressed with the technical knowledge and capabilities of many of the forum members. Unfortunately I'm not one of those members that possess the technical know-how to upgrade the crossovers in my 3.6s. (I have replaced the tweeters twice in 21 years and they're due again.) Since my 3.6s are in need of updating, I've been trying to decide what my next step should be -- whether l should audition other brands (which I'm reluctant to do) or figure out how to go about upgrading my 21-year-new CS 3.6s. My job would be a lot easier if I didn't think so highly of Thiel speakers! jafant - you mentioned the availability of several pairs of 2.4s that you spotted, but I value the deep, tight, low-end capability (among many other traits) of my 3.6s (when driven with my Naim NAP300) and think I'd loose some of the low-end if I switched to the smaller 2.4s. The 2.7s look like they'd fit the bill but they're rarely available and I question the logic behind spending $10K on previously-owned speakers.. I spoke to Rob at CCS (very nice gentleman) and he indicated that he could rebuild my tweeters but that there is currently no upgrade for the 3.6 crossovers. I'm surprised by this since I understood that the 3.6s were among the best-selling Thiel speakers, so there are still many of them out there. tomthiel - Is there a technical reason that there's no upgrade for the 3.6"s crossovers? How would one go about having 3.6 crossovers upgraded with out having to ship the speakers (which even Rob G. said was not a good idea) and not being able to do the work oneself? Is it worthwhile going through the effort and expense of this service and then just replacing parts rather than trying to upgrade the crossovers for better performance? Is replacing and updating the boards and components a job that a good local tech could do? On a more general note -- I appreciate the positive, constructive and collaborative nature of the Thiel owners thread. This is a great group! Although based on my admittedly limited experience in reading of other audiophile forums, this group seems to be rather unique in that it's a forum for expressions of ideas among members, rather than the apparent battle of wits and unending string of derogatory comments that seem to pervade so many other A'gon forums. I hope this forum continues to be the go-to for Thiel owners! |
Since there have been lots of posts about using Bryston amps with Thiel speakers, I wanted to relay my experience. I owned Bryston 7B ST monoblocks years ago and while I thought the Brystons did a good job driving my CS3.6s, I eventually became less satisfied with the match-up. IMO, there was a lack of PRAT using the Bryston amps, and I strongly value this criterion in a system. I eventually made the decision to purchase a Naim NAP300 and have never looked back. While the Naim amp is "only" rated at 90/w/ch into 8 ohms (150 into 4), this amp has no problem driving my 3.6s to levels louder than I want to listen, and in my opinion it exerts much better control than the Bryston 7B STs did. I know there have been several new series of Bryston amps since the ST version, and I understand that each generation had improved - however - I currently have no plans to upgrade my Naim components. Bottom line -- I just wanted to put in a good word for the Thiel-Naim match-up and throw it out there as a possibility for consideration if you're considering updating your amp. |
holco - your crossover seems to be a transitional form. (I am learning via reconstructing evidence.) Your coil values are those on the point to point Lex-built boards; and they are well-wound. Your caps are polypropylene which also points to Lex-built. It seems that Thiel-Lex must have transitioned to printed circuit boards, before eventually sending manufacture to China or otherwise diminishing parts quality. What are your serial numbers? So, you have original / good-quality parts. Your coils are likely to be best of form; don't swap them unless you go to ERSE foils in the same gauge (DC resistance equivalent). Beetlemania's previous advice sounds good to me. He / we will know more soon. I am sending his parts kit today for a fairly full-bore upgrade test-build. |
I have measured the woofer coil, seems to be the same as on the diagram, wire is 1.8mm in diameter, coil size is 55mm outer diameter with a height of 33mm. https://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/16070131/1024/Thiel-CS-2.4/Thiel-CS-2.jpg https://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/16070130/1024/Thiel-CS-2.4/Thiel-CS-2.jpg https://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/16070132/1024/Thiel-CS-2.4/Thiel-CS-2.jpg |
Thanks, Tom. I’ve never had an opportunity to listen to DR-series Classé amps. I think my first Classé amps were the first post-DR generation. They tilted to a warm sound. Maybe that agrees with your comments. My current-generation CT-2300 has a much more transparent and neutral sound to my ear. From what little I understand, its design is fairly distinct from previous Classé series, including the DRs. |
ish - I can only provide informal remembrances. I would say there was virtually no connection to the B&W / political change. Thiel didn't pay much attention to that stuff. The dealers variously aligned with various manufacturers, but Thiel / Kathy didn't get involved with those dealer decisions unless asked for product-performance / sales success advice. You're on the right track with product-performance drift. Dave Reich's DR-series amps were extraordinary in performance / price at their time. After he left, the amps kept the basic circuitry, but drifted into euphonic design territory, which didn't serve our needs as a manufacturer. We sought out very linear, neutral, high-performance gear. Bryston continually worked in that direction as well as being rugged and reliable. Jim used Bryston in the lab as his reality check against the big, expensive workhorses. I personally never felt the Bryston gear provided the nuance and detail that our products could deliver. We used it at shows to demonstrate high performance / affordably priced capability. Reviews and rumor suggest that their present cubed series steps up their performance quite a bit. Good people, good gear. |
Hope everyone had a fine Thanksgiving (for all those here who celebrated that day yesterday or at all). ... Here's another back story question: Early on, Thiel and Classé Audio seemed to have a close, if informal, relation in marketing and in-house systems (Classé and Thiel were marketed together mid-1990s at my local high-end salon, tomthiel still has legendary DR-era Classé amps). OTOH, the good fit between Thiel & Bryston has been well covered in recent posts. Over time, I heard fewer mentions from Thiel of pairings with Classé and more of pairings with Bryston (the two brands competed in roughly the same market niche). I speculated that this had something to do with Bowers & Wilkins purchase of Classé and their pairing at Abby Road Studios. Question: How much was this shift at Thiel due to the B&W acquisition vs. technical differences in the evolution of the Classé and Bryston lines. Side note: The Classé brand was eventually shut down by the conglomerate that purchased B&W. An attempt to resurrect Classé within the Sound United conglomerate is currently underway. In contrast to newThiel, new Classé is trying to retain most of its design team and culture. It will be interesting to see if the Classé reboot succeeds. |
No apologies required or sought. I am merely shedding light on the back-story because some of you guys are interested. No scab, really, just some story that usually gets politely ignored. Prof - yes, the CS6 and 1.5 were my last products before leaving in 1995. The machinery and manufacture processes all continued until the sale in 2012 when the factory was dismantled. That Macassar Ebony had no stain, that was the natural color of that South Seas species. Also, No. It's not that simple. |
tom, I remember way back when I had the CS6s at my place, they were the most luxurious speaker in terms of fit and finish I'd ever had. The wood finish was simply gorgeous, a fairly dark brown with strong grain - I forget the name of the finish (macassar ebony?) Did you do that work? Also: Weren't Jim and Kathy married at one point? |
unsound - there is always more than is obvious behind product development decisions. As I have alluded previously, the company supported Jim's design aspirations. Kathy, the marketing director, supported Jim's design aspirations. Drivers and electronics were Jim's primary interest. Cabinets played a supporting role as a necessity. Developing that baffle was a major undertaking. I made the mahogany patterns with late night CNC time stolen from day time production requirements. The convoluted baffle would have been a far larger undertaking, in design, pattern-making, casting and production finishing. The company did not have enough confidence in the product's projected sales to invest in that larger baffle cost. C'est la vie. Such dynamics are the stuff of small, self funded entrepreneurial companies. Given the luxury of capital to invest, including more staff, and the confidence that a market would emerge, I believe that flagship product(s) could have been developed which would have leap-frogged Thiel's market niche. The cabinets are indeed serious functional elegance. Thanks for that. |