I have the xover network,
https://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/16061554/1024/Thiel-CS-2.4/CS-2.4%3ESE.png
Thanks for your input andy2, much appreciated :-) I have the xover network, https://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/16061554/1024/Thiel-CS-2.4/CS-2.4%3ESE.png |
Hi Thiel lover's, Sorry for my crooked English. I am a new proud owner of a set CS 2.4 loudspeakers, running them with Audio-GD pre/DAC/amp and a Mano Ultra streamer. Really love the CS 2.4 and in my experience the best sounding loudspeakers I ever had, but knowing the crossovers are always a compromise to keep loudspeakers affordable I upgraded the crossovers of the tweeter/mid unit with Jantzen caps, see also, https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/thiel-cs2-4-upgrade-to-cs-2-4-se Because off the great!! improvement I like tho do the whole crossover but I am not sure what to upgrade, only thing I can think of is to replace the woofer coil for a nice Jantzen wax coil, but what about the resistors in series on the tweeter/mid crossovers? They are not part of the 6db crossover but the signal is going true them, confused!!?? Greetings from Holland, Mario |
Photo of the upgraded crossover. https://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/16063416/1024/Thiel-CS-2.4/Thiel-CS-2.jpg |
Hi Tom, I changed the 13uf and 1uf for a Jantzen 10uf Superior Z-Cap + Jantzen 3.9uf Alumen Z-Cap and I changed the 27uf and the 1uf for a Jantzen 18uf Superior Z-Cap + Jantzen 10uf Alumen Z-Cap. The why is because I wanted to upgrade to the SE version capacitors but the Clarity SA caps are a lower grade than the now used Jantzen caps. Don't know what you specific mean with listening experience, but I am a audio lover for many years and have build up a nice audio setup. Br, Mario |
The idea, what do you guy's think? https://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/16067084/1024/Thiel-CS-2.4/CS-2.4%3ESE.png |
Thanks Tom & Beetlemania :-) For sure it's the PCB version, resistors are equal but there are no marks on the coil's, do you guy's know the value of the changed 0,72mH coil on the PCB version? I wil also look for the other parts that you reported. Can't find a Mills 4ohm resistor in Europe that's why I changed them to a parallel 4R7 and 27R resistor with a total result of 4R003 See photo, https://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/16063392/1024/Thiel-CS-2.4/20181101-192450.jpg |
Thanks again beetlemania Hope Tom Thiel can also shed some light on the bass coil. Br, Mario |
Read the reviews and make your conclusion, Bryston isn't the only one that can manage the power hungry Thiel's and make them sing ;-) Audio-GD Master 3 power amp, Audio-GD Master 10 is the Master 3 with an integrated preamp. Spec's, 250W @ 8ohm / 500W @ 4ohm / 1000W @2ohm http://www.audio-gd.com/Master/Master-32015/Master-32015EN_Specs.htm Reviews, https://6moons.com/audioreviews/magnepan2/1.html https://headmania.org/2017/07/16/audio-gd-master-10-speaker-amplifier-review/ http://www.modelpromo.nl/Audio-GD_Master10en.htm |
I have measured the woofer coil, seems to be the same as on the diagram, wire is 1.8mm in diameter, coil size is 55mm outer diameter with a height of 33mm. https://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/16070131/1024/Thiel-CS-2.4/Thiel-CS-2.jpg https://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/16070130/1024/Thiel-CS-2.4/Thiel-CS-2.jpg https://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/16070132/1024/Thiel-CS-2.4/Thiel-CS-2.jpg |
Wish I had the money to spend ;-) Thiel CS 3.7 € 7.190,00 http://link.marktplaats.nl/m1349466028?utm_source=android_social&utm_content=vip&utm_medium=... |
Did a video recording of my audio set, not the best recording in mono but just to get an idea ;) https://youtu.be/xVTKm7MoWSA Original song, https://youtu.be/iIh2y5O8vH8 |
Ordered the rest of the parts to upgrade the CS-2.4 crossovers to (hopefully) perfection ;-) 2x the 0.72mH Jantzen Wax Coil, Copper foil Inductor 30mm width, 14AWG 4x the Jantzen Universal PCB, FR4, 140mm x 190mm Jantzen Solder, 4% silver - 100g 4x the 100uF 100V Mundorf ECap AC RAW electrolytic capacitor 2x the 2R 12W MRA12 Mills Resistor 2x the 30R 12W MRA12 Mills Resistor 2x the 4R7 12W MRA12 Mills Resistor 2x the 27R 12W MRA12 Mills Resistor 2x the 3R 12W MRA12 Mills Resistor To make 4ohm and 16ohm resistors (can’t get them in Europe) I ordered the next following resitors, 2x the 4R7 12W MRA12 Mills Resistor 4x the 27R 12W MRA12 Mills Resistor 2x the 39R 12W MRA12 Mills Resistor 27R + 4R7 in paralel make’s 4R 27R + 39R in paralel make’s 15R95 Hifi Collective will pair them with higher measuring 27R and 39R resistors to get 16R resistors Because of the lead time for the coil’s it will take some time, keep you guys posted. |
In my eyes the best amp if you need real current (it's on my wish list) http://www.audio-gd.com/Master/Master-2H/Master-2HEN.htm |
The final components choice for the CS-2.4 crossover upgrade, it will be made on new larger Jantzen Universal PCB's and soldered with Jantzen Solder, 4% silver https://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/16092231/1024/Thiel-CS-2.4/CS-2.4-SE-final.png |
Changed my plans!! Resently I changed my van den Hul Magnum loudspeaker cable's for the Supra PLy 3.4/S cable's, this are screened loudspeaker cables and the screen needs to be connected to ground on the power-amp, although they are relativ cheap cable's they give a great improvement on SQ in my case, so the idea is to use them also for the internal wirering and pass thru the shielding to the outside with some kind of extra connector to the Supra PLy 3.4/S cable, there is also the option to connect the unit's so everything will be connected to ground. |
Jafant, My Audio-GD 40kg dual mono power-amp is super stable and drive's the CS-2.4 with verve, some specs, 2x 250W / 8ohm - 2x 500W / 4ohm - 2x 1000W / 2ohm and max 2x 1000W / 1ohm, higher loads than 1000W will tricker the protection, there was never a situation that I heard anything going wrong and I like playing loud some times, according to my wife most times ;) |
beetlemania, I'm aware of the do's and don'ts placing coil's, how to placing coil's near capacitors is new info for me, thanks for the link :) But like you said, there will be more space on the bigger PCB's, and if Jim Thiel didn't calculate the specific distances between the coil's I see no problem but rather an improvement. |
tomthiel, The coil's are completely waxed, don't know how hard the layers stick to each other, if I demolish them I lose the guarantee to get new one's. I suspect that the woofer is 4ohm, with a 6db crossover a 0.72mH coil cross at 880Hz, 0.75mH will cross at of 850Hz, so the loss will be about 30Hz. Yes iff I want I can measure it with REW, but I don't want to complete the crossovers with the 0.75mH coil's. |
Measured the received Jantzen Cross coil’s, the two 0.15mH measure both 0.152 but the two 0.72mH Jantzen wax coil’s measure 0.749mH and 0.750mH :( This will lower the crossover for the woofer about 30hz (880hz vs 850hz), my first thought is to send them back and wait another month for new one’s but maybe one of you guys have other thoughts about this? There is also the option that I unwind them to get 0.72mH, did that before in the past but never on a foil wax coil. |
Looking at my last Dirac Live measurement there seems to be a shoot over around 800hz > 1000hz, so the 30hz won't be a loss at that point. [URL=https://picturepush.com/public/16097034][IMG]https://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/16097034/1024/Thie...] |
Andy2, The measurement was taken from the listening spot with Dirac Live in my living room, there is no way to get perfect measurements without a treated dedicated audio room, that I don't have :( The device I use to compensate my room with great results. https://www.minidsp.com/products/dirac-series/ddrc-88a |
I have now finished the coax crossover of the right speaker and am listening to music with a big smile on my face, incredible how much such an upgrade brings!! And now also the CS2.4 shows its appreciation with the nicer parts :) Still a lot to do, but it's all worth it see link for the photos, https://holco.picturepush.com/album/1171389/p-Thiel-CS-2.4.html |
Btw, I found a date of my CS2.4 https://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/16097433/1024/Thiel-CS-2.4/20190119-164001.jpg |