Thiel Owners

Reuben, for historical prices of Thiel speakers you can use hifishark.com

Andy, I did a lot of work with rephase last summer, compared linear and min phase xo and equalized individual drivers and room effects. Used my 2 sets of cs3 to compare the results. The software is excellent. Give it a try. Can offer some help if you have questions as the manual is a long thread on diyaudio.

Software is great once you figure out how to set the parameters. Don't know if a better and cheaper way to explore the variables of audio reproduction.

I have been lurking for a few years now, but willing to be more visible now. I live in Lexington, KY just around the corner from Rob G. Started my audiophile interest with Kef 104 Reference speakers, purchased in 1974 from my first summer job. Believed that I had great speakers, until I met my girl friend, who had the Thiel 02 bookshelf speakers, that had less bass but better and clearer upper range sound. Since being together, we have had the cs 3.5 for about 15 years, and recently I purchased another set, since I have become so attached to them. Easy to drive, I have Bryston 3B-ST for a large listening space, 30 by 30 with sloped ceiling up to 18 ft. My source is now primarily streaming through Bluesound Node 2, listening to Tidal. So convenient and nothing beats the selection. Skipped a pre-amp and directly connected to the power amp. My second set of Thiel speakers are located at a smaller space, primarily listening at night. Amp is Transcendent Sound, single ended OTR, only 4 Watt, but perfectly adequate. As I value my hearing, never listen louder than 80 db, often 60-70 db. Lost my ability to hear higher tones, above 12K Hz, but still can easily discern lower tones, down to 20 Hz. My musical interest ranges and includes blues, folk, bluegrass, classic, jazz and some rock. The Thiel cs 3.5 are well suited for my taste. Had to have both equalizers repaired and that made a big difference to have the equalizers back in the chain. Got to know Rob better, and had many temptations to upgrade, seeing all his museum pieces. Figured I would wait to find out what his update plans involved, but now understand from Tom's response, that may not be the case? Anyway, this can serve as my intro. Great threat.

I'm wondering if replacing the equalizer of the 3.5 with a mini-dsp or a more professional equalizer such as DBX 1231 STEREO GRAPHIC EQUALIZER (have one sitting unused) could be an improvement, especially if calibrated for the listening space. Any experience with that?

Prof. just read a review of those 223K speakers tonight. Glad to know the 3.7 can compete. Afraid that any upgrade from my 3.5 will  only signify a difference and a major adjustment. Tom, just ordered a calibration mic and will do some testing with my Bryston in the large room next week. Stay tuned.

oops. mixed up the A3 with the Magico Q7 Mk II. They are $223 K.Harrylavo, if your equalizers have problems, get them fixed by Rob. I had mine damage the low voltage circuit of my power amp.

First for prof, I wasted a perfectly good day reviewing your thread involving your speaker journey. Fantastic, and I greatly admire your ability to discern and articulate what you hear. Wonder if you could do the same for some of the Thiel speakers, in particular comparing the 3.5, 3.6 and 3.7 in this thread. I believe that you may be able to clarify what the differences are and help me justify keeping my speakers or upgrade. Tried to create a playlist on Tidal with some of your reference material, but need to trim it down a little. Helped me better appreciate what you were pointing out.
I did some testing with Room Equalizer Wizard and the Thiel and DBX equalizers. Only just scratched the surface, not really understanding all the variables at play. Made my meaurements from the listening position and not in close proximity to the speakers, so room factors were present, although constant for all measurements. Used pink noise track as source and did RTA checks on different settings. Discovered that the Thiel equalizer is not working properly in the 20 HZ setting, even though Rob fixed it last year. It may be the switch as the next day I was able to determine that the 40 HZ setting had less bass in comparison. The more I read, the more complex it all is and an equalizer can only do a small contribution. The comparison with DBX did not reveal any clear improvement. The DBX has a balanced output (as well as unbalanced) and needed more gain to match the unbalanced output from the Thiel equalizer to sound equally loud on the bryston amp. Here were some conclusion that I hate to draw:Maybe it is the age of my speaker showing but they certainly were not able to reproduce anything within 3db from 20-20K. Below 40 HZ there was more than 10 db drop and likewise on the 14K side. Ignorance is bliss.

Thanks Prof, really appreciated. I checked with Rob today and he has sold a lot of his inventory and all his 3.7 were reserved. He could not account for my measurements but indicated that he could rebuild all the drivers, XO and they would be good to go for about 1K each.
I have not heard any evidence of any drivers malfunctioning so I'll first double check my measurements and let him to do troubleshooting.
Unsound, did you notice a notable difference after the rebuilding?
Well, will take it one step at the time.

Unsound, were you the person who changed from the 3.5 to the 3.6 but ended up having regrets because the speakers were mostly different, not clearly better?

I talked to him in person yesterday. Alive and well. Double check his phone number and email address it has changed recently.
I had both of my equalizers repaired this past year and it made a big difference. With every penny but it made me start looking at alternatives in case he could not repair it. Fortunately, he still had some donor parts

Oblngy, that is exactly how I feel and afraid to make the same "mistake". I'll first see if I can identify the problem with the frequency spectrum.
Unsound, did you notice an improvement after you rebuild the mid way drivers.

I was in a similar situation when Rob was able to find some parts. An alternative that I found equally if not more effective is a dbx 1231 equalizer from eBay probably less than$100 as there is no market for these. Use the graphic profile from stereophile to approximate the factory settings or make your own profile making adjustments for your amp or room acoustics, of course within limits. Advantage is that there have  balanced as well as unbalanced input and output. Contact me if you have any questions.

I have been wondering if it would be possible to increase the impedence with 4 to 6 ohm if I were to refurbish the xo of my 3.5? My single ended otl amp would be more efficient at higher impedence.

Thanks Tom, not the answer I hoped for, but consistent with my preliminary research.

After some thorough checking trying to explain the major drop off on both the high and bottom end of the spectrum, I discovered that my test sound was the cause. Replacing the pink noise with a sweep test, revealed no major drop off. The pink noise test sound did not have the full spectrum.

Here are some of my current favorites:
Paul Simon-stranger to stranger
Doors- l.a.woman
Johnny Cash - American recordings
Katoh,Stagg- masters of shakuhachi
Arne Domnerus- Antiphone blues

Guys (and galls?) I could use your help in "diagnosing" my speaker problems. I have 2 sets of Thiel 3.5's and the newer set shows an acceptable measurement curve using REW and the build-in sweep measurement. My older speakers that I power with a Bryston 3B-STin a large 30x30ft room, show problematic measurements for each speaker, taken about 5 ft from each speaker, especially in the lower ranger 20-100 hz. I have links to the REW datafiles so you can examine them if you have REW, a free program. I have tentatively concluded that one woofer may need replacement but I'm curious about your opinions. Are these speakers reaching their end of life? Speaker are 12 ft apart.
Right speaker, from 4- 5 ft
https://drive.google.com/file/d/14xdQvRFk24kUBehj1WXhETCNU0vb7nV3/view?usp=sharingBoth speaker, listening position 16-18 ft
https://drive.google.com/file/d/14xdQvRFk24kUBehj1WXhETCNU0vb7nV3/view?usp=sharingLeft speaker, from 4- 5 ft
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1UIeddDfRzRsdXjSXPdG3HSyFsCs39kkd/view?usp=sharing

Thanks Tom, the data files are used in REW to chart the values of frequency responses. After downloading the files, just open them in REW (room equalizer wizard). Rob, who is just around the corner from me is pretty busy and I hate to miss my speakers for weeks but I'm prepared to do it, if it can be fixed.

Here is just a link to the graph of left speaker (5ft), right speaker (5 ft) and both speakers (16 ft) Same signal sweep for each measurement.https://drive.google.com/file/d/17Ft6xYyKt7vg--wdn5KplLU0Y5hZ7b4s/view?usp=sharing
More detailed info if you download data file for REW.

Tom, your response is greatly appreciated. I have an extra woofer but it sounds like there may be more wrong. The equalizer was just serviced a few months ago and that was what started me to examine this more closely. Thanks

Brayeagle, since you came from the 3.5 how would you describe the differences with the 3.7 and 2.7. I'm telling myself that with my low max volume of 70 DB, it would be hard to improve on the 3.5 but I have never put it to the test.

Thanks brayeagle, sounds like you more or less confirm my suspicion. Have others noticed more significant differences after an "upgrade". Remember, I don't play music any louder than 70 DB and very happily employ a 4 watt set amp.

Thanks Tom, I also have a set of series 2 still in use. Helps to have a historical perspective and appreciate all the work that went into it. If somebody wrote a book about thiel history it might make a fascinating movie.

Curious how these improvements in passive, analogue  xo would compare to active, digital xo. Anyone made this comparison?

I need to comment that the 3.5 are so easily included with all the other models in the 2 and 3 series even though the design and specs are considerably different. The min. Impedance of the 3.5 is 5 ohm, not the 2 or 3 ohm range. All the need for high current is only relevant when the loudness increases above 100 dB near field. As I rarely listen at levels above 75 dB, I can power my 3.5 in a medium room of 14 by 16 with a 4 watt amplifier with deep extended bass.

Just wanted to make the point that the 3.5 is much easier to drive then all the other thiel speakers if not too loud.

If you like deep bass, can be happy with moderate loudness, and don't want to worry about having a high power amp, the 3.5 Will Serve you well. Replacing the thiel equalizer  with a 31 1/3 Oct. With a dbx 1231 or a Rane mx60 is a good option.

I have used a 31 ch. Equalizer, dbx1231, and been able to make some room corrections, of course within reason. These EQ have a balanced out, is that what you are wondering about using 2 EQ? By the way, in my experience, the mid range or higher did not suffer from using an under powered amp, at moderate loudness. 88 dB at 2 watts is plenty for a small room listening to instrumental music.

Thanks for sharing. Hope this condition will improve soon. No reason to withhold your astute observations and sharing. Certainly reminded me not to take my hearing for granted and protect them from overexposure.

Well, Tom, you have given me some ideas how to explore the difference between the active digital xo and the original passive xo of the 3.5. I'll keep the original xo external and begin with comparing the woofer only, with and without the eq, and compare it to the various digital active xo and eq settings. Thanks

I'll be happy to consider supporting an affinity group that might obtain the property and other rights of Thiel llc. Anyone else?

Great to hear that you are reconsidering creating an upgrade for the 3.5 I'll be curious.

I think the Bryston 7b St with the serial and parallel setting represents a solid neutral amp that allows for regular and low impedance speaker comparison and identify issues due to impedance.

Please keep exploring options to improve the 3.5 including sourcing a durable mid range driver. As Tom reported before, it's only time before we run out of replacement kits. Several options have been indicated in the past but the specs of the 13m1852 are unknown for comparison to my knowledge. Anyone tried an substitute driver?

I looked into the Thiel subwoofer and was reminded by Rob that he can't service them if there ever is a problem. Fyi

Noticed that the 3.5 has no internal braces like many of the newer models. Is that an issue?

Tom, glad to hear you have thought of a way to continue to service the mid drivers for the 3.5. I hope that Rob will find new cones and coils when his current supply runs out
These ideas about possible new developments with Thiel become more realistic if we can obtain the rights.

Hi guys (and gals) I'm happy to announce that I'm now the proud owner of a new set 3.7 nos. It was the last set that Rob Gilliam had and I'm breaking them in with about 50 hours on them. I have to take back my earlier opinion stating that the 3.5 are good enough for low volume listening. The 3.7 are clearly a major step forward in all areas of listening experience even driving them with my modest amp a Bryston 3b st. I can't wait for a set of 7b St to arrive so I can provide the current that these speakers deserve.

Yes, brand new, old stock. Low volume sounds great with my amp, better then high volume when it starts to be a little bright. All the reviews about the quality of these speakers are raving and I can only agree.

I picked my bryston 3b st to drive my 3.5 and with a impedance of 5, and worked out really well. For my 3.7 I have decided on the 7b St monoblocks that I will run in parallel bridged mode, resulting in 500 Watts at 3 ohm and all the current that can could be needed. I also looked at the 14bsst but was told that it could not be converted to parallel mode so the 7b St were the last ones that could be switched parallel or serial.

The 7.2 as it has all Thiel designed and made in house speakers. The balancing act for the bass speakers was a challenge on the 5 and never fully mastered though better then many other speakers.

there was a lack of PRAT using the Bryston amp
Can you elaborate what this means, thanks.

Also, did you notice a difference between parallel and serial bridged functioning?

I have used a link to my Google drive to display any documents or pictures

On this and other fora, it has been repeatedly stated that Thiel speakers need big amps, specifically big currents, in order to "sing" and sound their best. I plan to find a way to test this common reported experience as I got these new 3.7 and have now in addition to the bryston 3b St, a set of 7b St. These amps are very similar except for output  and provide a way to compare a regular 125 watt amp with limited current, to a high output 800 watt with limited current (serial bridged), to a 500 watt with abundent current (parallel bridged). I'll do a comparison of sweep with rem software. Please suggest any other measurements that may capture a difference. What is a good piece of music that would reveal any differences? I'll record the music through the different amps at a 90dB loudness with a high resolution recording and do a blind test where you can vote to identify the recording. Any volunteers to help out with this? Thanks

I checked and it has no serial no.

Heart warming. Great way to go. Thanks

So I did my comparison today, the bryston 3bst and 7bst in parallel and serial on my Thiel 3.7. As both amps are off the same generation, they sound sonically identically. I used some jazz music, with organ and sax (domnerus, antiphone blues) and Brubeck, take five. First observation: the spl of the 3bst and 7bst in parallel were the same so comparing both in mono was very easy. Second observation: at 80 dB, what I consider at live loudness, both Amps were easily able to reproduce the music as I was seated 12 feet away. The only difference I could consistently detect was in the low bass where the 7bst was fuller. Any differences in the upper range, was undetectable by me, no signs of any distortion. 3. But then I played some female vocals, brendi carlille, and there it was, her voice was deeper on the 7bst and sharper on the 3bst. Enough of a difference to keep the 7bst.

The serials for my nos Thiel 3.7 are 6001 and 6002.