The sound quality from DACs - is it all the same?

I have had a number of DACs in my system over the last few years: Cambridge Audio DacMagic 100, Cambridge Audio CXN V2, Ayre EX8 (with the digital card), Chord Dave.  There is definitely a difference: e.g., compared to the CXN V2, the Chord Dave has a lot more texture in its bass, better soundstage/separation of instruments, and wonderful detail and air in the higher frequencies.  These are smaller differences in comparison to e.g., moving from a $1000 pair of speakers to a $14000 pair or a similar upgrade in integrated amplifiers. I would upgrade DACs beyond $1000 once you have already reached a high level for Speakers (I find significant improvements at least till the $10K level) and Amplifiers (I find significant improvements at least till the $6K level).

I have owned several different Dacs with different setups, but I often wonder about the question at least at a theoretical level. I currently have Holo May Kte which is very good sounding Dac. It is non over sampled R2R DAC which also has impressive measurements. I can definitely hear sound quality differences between DACs. However, these differences may not come off as obvious, meaning if you play a song with those DACs, you’d still hear that same song. If the music is very well recorded, it would be more challenging to decern any differences. However, DAC that sounds good to my ears has little or no listening fatigue so that I can listen to it for hours. I had Chord Hugo 2 and Mojo 1 & 2 previously. Imo, Rob Watts designs some fantastic dacs and these chord dacs produced really good PRAT. But, there were some unnatural characteristics with the sound that made me to stop listening after an hour or so. After Chord dacs, I had Moon 390 DAC / streaming preamp. It was an all in one unit that performed well, I thought. It had tad less detail than Hugo 2 but it definitely threw a bigger stage and deeper depth. The Moon sounded more natural to me so I had much onger listening sessions. Once I got May DAC, I could tell how inferior the sound of Moon was. From naturalness, tone / timber, and imaging perspective, the Moon DAC could not match.

Having said all that, I think about a perfectly converted analog signal which is in an absolute form. Any deviation from the perfect signal is an imperfect one. Knowing this, and DACs have compromises in their design and implementation, so I expect some variations of sound differences. However, these differences can narrow as they get closer to that perfect signal.

“ … Do DACs make a difference? - I Bought a $10,000 DAC…”

"What is the difference between troll and man?”

Cousins.

😊I think exactly the same as you... You said it well...

My two different main dac are relatively low cost but i optimized everything around them and especially put them where the synergy is good and upgrading is meaningless for me , it will be marginal and very costly... I do0nt even dream it because it appear meaningless acoustically ...

I own a Nos TDA 1543 dac , and an Hidizs dac ; each one with battery internal...The NOS one with my active speakers, the most analytical one with my headphone...All is perfect...

@mahgister , A lower cost dac will benefit a lot from certain types of tweaks, vibe isolation, usb filters (IFI, audioquest, etc), ethernet filters, better power supply, power filters, cables, dedicated power lines and so on....If your overall system infrastructure tweaks are up to a certain certain standard, you can narrow the gap a lot between lower priced dacs and higher priced dacs. The higher priced dacs don’t benefit that much from above such tweaks perceptibly. If you understand circuit design/and are handy, you could tinker with some components in the output stage and so on...

Reviewers exaggerate differences they heard between dacs at different price brackets. It is a lot more subtle than what these guys claim. Guys in untreated spaces with poor or restricted setups (no distance between speakers/frontwalls, listener/backwall, etc) have already nullified most benefits of higher end dacs...might as well work with the room, i.e., get other fundamentals right before coming to the dac.

I spoke for people like me with very limited budget...

@mahgister , A lower cost dac will benefit a lot from certain types of tweaks, vibe isolation, usb filters (IFI, audioquest, etc), ethernet filters, better power supply, power filters, cables, dedicated power lines and so on....If your overall system infrastructure tweaks are up to a certain certain standard, you can narrow the gap a lot between lower priced dacs and higher priced dacs. The higher priced dacs don’t benefit that much from above such tweaks perceptibly. If you understand circuit design/and are handy, you could tinker with some components in the output stage and so on...

Reviewers exaggerate differences they heard between dacs at different price brackets. It is a lot more subtle than what these guys claim. Guys in untreated spaces with poor or restricted setups (no distance between speakers/frontwalls, listener/backwall, etc) have already nullified most benefits of higher end dacs...might as well work with the room, i.e., get other fundamentals right before coming to the dac.

+1. A DAC designer I know said implementation is everything 

This is a strange thread as there are plenty of reviews, testimonials, and technical descriptions of differences between DACs.  Even units using the same model DAC chips sound different after implementation.  

Basic dac technology is mature ...

This dont means that there is no higher quality dac offerings, there is plenty...

this means that the ratio S.Q. / price has improved in an extraordinary way compared to  what it was more than 10 years ago...

And BACCH filters can be associated with a dac , it is a DSP technology but not a dac even if Choueiri offer to put it in his own dac concept...

Then my point is if you are happy with a basic good dac , upgrading it is not necessarily the best option , buying another piece of gear can be the better road or improving your acoustic , electrical and mechanical system embeddings controls... ...

I spoke for people like me with very limited budget...

I like your last post and i am OK with it by the way...

@mahgister , IMO, any DAC, i.e. digital/analog conversion --> filter deployment, etc is DSP. There is no such thing as a purist DAC really. Any DAC that uses FPGA is certainly not a purist DAC and is very much in the DSP domain. Even the common R2R dacs rely heavily on FPGA. Manufacturers don’t openly use the word DSP in their product lest they scare off the "purist" audiophiles. Low info audiophiles seem to be a bit too confused and/or conflicted when it comes to their understanding of what constitutes DSP or not.

BACCH, HRTFs and all other proprietary FPGA intervention, etc is an attempt to evolve/enhance a DAC’s function such that it begins to realistically portray the presentation of a 3D soundfield, layering, spatial cues, detail, etc to the ears (as would be respresentative of live great acoustic spaces with unplugged instruments playing and no PA equipment involved)

Lower cost DACs can easily match core SINAD measurements, noise floor, etc of any 10k, 20k, 40k, 80k whatever "high end" DAC. The real enhancement of the listening experience comes from the implementation of different types of DSP mentioned above. The latter comes down to the knowledge base/competence level of the individual manufacturer. In that respect, i have more faith in some of the bigger dogs (Sony, Yamaha, Sound United, Technics, etc) to come up with something worthwhile over the years. For example, Yamaha just invested ~100 million USD in audio R&D. I don’t care to waste my time (not a chance) with the fluff manufacturers a.k.a 1 guy tinkering in his garage and coming up with a price tag of 20k somehow! (he must think he’s that much of a genius!).

For now, i have a Denafrips Venus (~3k), Technics SL-G700 SACD player/DAC/Streamer combo unit (~3k) and a TAD D1000TX SACD player/DAC (~15k msrp, you could get it for 8 to 10k, if you are tactical 😏). I can justify a higher cost for CD/SACD player/DAC/streamer type of combo units when they are built like a mac truck and last for life. If the DACs become outdated in 10 years, they could still serve as top notch quality transports. But, i couldn’t justify that level of cost for stand-alone DACs, a constantly evolving tech.

For sure you are right ... 😊

BACCH Filters coupled to a dac or integrated with one is the next level technology...

Classical dac technology is mature in the perspective of the ratio sound quality versus price...

Thats all my remark meaning...

There is less difference between low cost dac and higher costly one than a decade ago...

Then upgrading a relatively good dac to another relatively good dac, if you like your acutal synergy experience with the other components, makes less sense than upgrading immediately to BACCH system the next level where two technology are integrated to another type of general DSP level...

I own 4 basic low cost dac and the differences between them is immediately perceptible but each one has his own function and synergy potential but throwing many, many thousand dollars to upgrade any of them make less sense now than investing in BACCH filters or way better other investing in other components or investing in embeddings mechanical and electrical or acoustical controls which will be more impactful together than any classical dac of any type upgrades... Better to buy BACCH or transform your room acoustic...If with your actual dac the synergy please you already for sure..

@mahgister , IMO, any DAC, i.e. digital/analog conversion --> filter deployment, etc is DSP. There is no such thing as a purist DAC really. Any DAC that uses FPGA is certainly not a purist DAC and is very much in the DSP domain. Even the common R2R dacs rely heavily on FPGA. Manufacturers don’t openly use the word DSP in their product lest they scare off the "purist" audiophiles. Low info audiophiles seem to be a bit too confused and/or conflicted when it comes to their understanding of what constitutes DSP or not.

BACCH, HRTFs and all other proprietary FPGA intervention, etc is an attempt to evolve/enhance a DAC’s function such that it begins to realistically portray the presentation of a 3D soundfield, layering, spatial cues, detail, etc to the ears (as would be respresentative of live great acoustic spaces with unplugged instruments playing and no PA equipment involved)

Lower cost DACs can easily match core SINAD measurements, noise floor, etc of any 10k, 20k, 40k, 80k whatever "high end" DAC. The real enhancement of the listening experience comes from the implementation of different types of DSP mentioned above. The latter comes down to the knowledge base/competence level of the individual manufacturer. In that respect, i have more faith in some of the bigger dogs (Sony, Yamaha, Sound United, Technics, etc) to come up with something worthwhile over the years. For example, Yamaha just invested ~100 million USD in audio R&D. I don’t care to waste my time (not a chance) with the fluff manufacturers a.k.a 1 guy tinkering in his garage and coming up with a price tag of 20k somehow! (he must think he’s that much of a genius!).

For now, i have a Denafrips Venus (~3k), Technics SL-G700 SACD player/DAC/Streamer combo unit (~3k) and a TAD D1000TX SACD player/DAC (~15k msrp, you could get it for 8 to 10k, if you are tactical 😏). I can justify a higher cost for CD/SACD player/DAC/streamer type of combo units when they are built like a mac truck and last for life. If the DACs become outdated in 10 years, they could still serve as top notch quality transports. But, i couldn’t justify that level of cost for stand-alone DACs, a constantly evolving tech.

gasoline powered automobiles are a most mature product technologically, presently

yet some of them perform much much better than others, differences aren’t subtle

technology (and its ’maturity’) are but one aspect of many that impact performance

A generalization like this is bollocks (..a suitable UK term that I will borrow herein , but you get the picture ,.).

(1) the audio performance differences in cheap versus high-end DAC audio performance are clear and unambiguous when you ascend into the high end audio systems pricepoint strata, with their resolution capabilities worthy of the added not insignificant cash outlay. Simply put , it is entirely system dependent ,

(2) Go test drive it for yourself instead of being mired in a lot of forum hyperbole. . Toddle down to your fave dealer bricks and mortar store with a suitable fine high-end system to personally audition the DAC options; ranging from the cheap build to high-end build (and price) alternatives. The objective is to differentiate the DAC contenders audio performance from the many pretenders .

For sure you are right ... 😊

BACCH Filters coupled to a dac or integrated with one is the next level technology...

Classical dac technology is mature in the perspective of the ratio sound quality versus price...

Thats all my remark meaning...

There is less difference between low cost dac and higher costly one than a decade ago...

Then upgrading a relatively good dac to another relatively good dac, if you like your acutal synergy experience with the other components, makes less sense than upgrading  immediately to BACCH system the next level where two technology are integrated to  another type of general DSP level...

I own 4 basic low cost dac and the differences between them is immediately perceptible but each one has his own function and synergy potential  but throwing many, many thousand dollars to upgrade any of them make less sense now than investing in BACCH filters  or way better other  investing in other components or investing in  embeddings mechanical and electrical or acoustical controls which will be more impactful together than any classical dac of any type upgrades... Better to buy BACCH or transform your room acoustic...If with your actual dac the synergy please you already for sure...

Dac is a mature technology now...

@mahgister , not necessarily.....I don’t wanna mention any specific brand names here.... But, some of the "higher end" DACs, i.e. if a manufacturer gets into the FPGA enigma, for example, he can do many things depending on his level of knowledge/competence. Perception of an enormous, immersive ’virtual surround like’ soundstage coming from 2 speakers can be attributed to proprietary algorithms, HRTFs and so on (that’s atleast one case i know of). I assume you are familiar with the BACCH cross talk filters, which is a different strategy than the former.

It is the 3D sound field that eventually gets to your ears and a lot of things can be done in the digital domain to modulate it. If you think of it along those lines, it is not necessarily a mature technology and has much room for improvement.

Wait for big boys like Sony to put something like their 360 reality audio inside a 2 channel hifi dac. You may get something for a 1000 bucks or 2000 bucks that took your listening experience a few notches higher than a 80k donkey dac.

ASR seems to assert that only specs and measurements matter.  Some specs are worthless, such as speaker specs generally.  

Measurements are a starting point. Magazine reviews are interesting, although consistently positive.  Consumer shows present equipment under difficult and demanding circumstances such as the tiny rooms.  Listening to equipment at AXPONA is revealing.  
 

Listening to the equipment properly set up in your own room  is the only real test.  The specs, the measurements and the self-anointed experts (with the attendant Dunning- Kruger effect) will no longer matter when you judge it yourself, in your own home, without the unnecessary distractions.

Dac is a mature technology now...

@mahgister , not necessarily.....I don’t wanna mention any specific brand names here.... But, some of the "higher end" DACs, i.e. if a manufacturer gets into the FPGA enigma, for example, he can do many things depending on his level of knowledge/competence. Perception of an enormous, immersive ’virtual surround like’ soundstage coming from 2 speakers can be attributed to proprietary algorithms, HRTFs and so on (that’s atleast one case i know of). I assume you are familiar with the BACCH cross talk filters, which is a different strategy than the former.

It is the 3D sound field that eventually gets to your ears and a lot of things can be done in the digital domain to modulate it. If you think of it along those lines, it is not necessarily a mature technology and has much room for improvement.

Wait for big boys like Sony to put something like their 360 reality audio inside a 2 channel hifi dac. You may get something for a 1000 bucks or 2000 bucks that took your listening experience a few notches higher than a 80k donkey dac.

You might find the latest episode of the John Darko podcast interesting. Peter Comeau is a guest, discussing audio myths.

Dac is a mature technology now...

I bought 4 basic very different low cost dac... Each one serve in my 2 system now at the right place for the right job...Each one is different not only in sound but in possibilities...

I dont need any COSTLY dac upgrade ...

There is a marketing scam here by OMISSION : the rightful electrical, mechanical and especially acoustical embeddings controls are the key to audio once a synergetical choices of relatively good basic components is done...

The rest is hype conditioned by ignorance and marketing strategy on reviewers ....

There is a difference in dac this is evident but so slight compared to the embeddings controls i just described that people buying a dac after another are simply deluded... They confuse a hobby based on acoustics with a compulsive obsessive disorder...

Buy a low cost or a costlier dac after studying users and specs review and call it a job done... Dont go on a buying spree...buy books about acoustics and search articles on acoustics on google scholar...

Nothing else will help so much...

Try to understand the acoustic definition of all music, audio and acoustic terms and concepts and their specific differences in these three fields......

Set a few experiments for yourself in your room or in your system  it is costless and fun ...

This is the hobby. the hobby is  not purchasing as a joyful widow with a full wallet in the lucky event of his husband death ... I suppose you had a family to serve with your money... 😊

And dont conclude that i miss anything in sound quality with my audio systems, there exist a minimaql qualitative threshold that any acoustician can DEFINE ...

Dont look for beyond this threshold by buying upgrades you will fool yourself... Upgrades cannot replace acoustics no more than acoustics can replace the absence of synergy between components..

To understand and recognize this minimal acoustic threshold uyou must learn how to identify aspects of your sound experience with controls over acoustic concepts... There is many ways to degrade or improve these  acoustic controls...

Buying a dac to control your acoustic experience is preposterous and illusory...

This topic has cost me a ton of money over the years.

When the upgrade bug sets in I always seem to change out my DAC thinking there will be some magical moment.  This opinion is worsened by the many reviews who proclaim one DAC is so much better than the next.  Steve Huff on youtube is one of my favorites.  Great videos and he's so passionate....   The Wiess DAC is so warm, the Dave is holographic, omg... the May and Terminator... on it goes.

I've owned almost off of them....  most recently the DAVE.  When compared to my Benchmark DAC3, the differences are so amazingly slight I'm left disappointed.  There is a difference, but you almost need instantaneous ABing to tell and even then I'm trying to convince myself it's really there.

Best to get a good DAC and keep it.  Even my Topping DAC is almost identical to the Benchmark.  I've sold all those expensive DACs and put the money toward the amp and transducer.   

Hope this wasn't useless

steve

I have 2 DACs and my Vault connected to my pre and they all sound different 

Thanks very interesting article indeed ...

It is very true and i experienced it when tuning my room ....

Timbre of voice and instrument is determined by a time envelope and a spectral envelope...But by amplitude of certain frequencies range too...

Then a Dac is one thing ... Acoustic magnification of any good dac power is another thing...

@mahgister

I think this would help to explain:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33873218/

@mahgister 

I think this would help to explain: 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33873218/

@kcleveland 

My headphones have distortion <<0.01%.  I am not sure there is any speaker made with distortion that low. My DAC and headphone amplifier have far lower distortion than that.  No speaker and amp you have is going to be more revealing.

I am not amazed when there are no difference between DACs, interconnects, or what is streaming the digital signal. There is no reason for the difference to be there.

One major factor that may have been covered somewhere in this thread is how revealing your system is. If you have speakers, amps and related equipment that can accurately translate the signal fed to them you'd be amazed at the difference in sound quality between DACs, CD transports and yes, even cables. 

I was speaking of the limitation of the SPS by itself for my ears in my room ..

I know that you are right about your dac ... I dont doubt it a second...And i thank you because it is interesting recommendation ....

Acoustic treatment and control are for me the most important factors in audio experience...And remember that a minimal threshold of quality exist and i have it already... 😊

"Garbage in and out"  is true, but being inferior for the SPS compared to the Audio Note dont means it is garbage in my room...

I know that you are respecful and i appreciated discussing with you.... And i really like your recommendation because the price is good and you alreay know the SPS...

Thanks very much my friend...

But I will say with confidence that the AN DAC is so much better than the SPS DAC in every respect not just in detail alone but from top to bottom in everything that it does.

Oh no I didn't say the Grundig would be better than your Sansui - I was just lending another example of a low cost looking amp that can sound excellent.

But I will say with confidence that the AN DAC is so much better than the SPS DAC in every respect not just in detail alone but from top to bottom in everything that it does.

You don't have to strain your hearing to hear this huge jump in performance.

if you do get a chance to listen to one in your current system you may find that interesting. The performance of the digital front end is more important than the rest in my experience (garbage in garbage out).

You are perfectly right and i am conscious of the limitation of the SPS because my room is acoustically under my control and not only treated...

The SPS lack in the high range, it is less resolving thats all compared to many  very costly dac ...

My imaging, soundstage and LEV/ASW ratio are over the roof and under my control and this dac dont impede my acoustic at all..

But it is not a microscope...

Then even if the Audio Note will be better resolving i dont need it for cost reason and anyway if i bought it my old Sansui so good it is, should  be replaced and even my speakers would be not so much efficient now at the level of  this more resolving source...

i dont miss this potential  improvement at all, because there is a minimal objective  treshold od acoustic satisfaction  for what we call an audiophile experience acoustically and i enjoy this minimal experience so much now anyway , that any upgrade even for the better have no appeal....

But you are probably wrong about my Sansui AU 7700 sorry ... I dont bought it by chance... The Grundig V1700 will not beat it ....Sorry....😊 I even own a Sansui of the alpha series supposedly better ....If i wanted a real upgrade from these Sansui amplifiers  which are top FLEXIBLE  Sansui with separated amd-preamp section, with tone controls rivallling others, i must buy a ZOTL Berning tube amplifier and yes  i will beat the two amplifier i own at relatively low cost... But with your suggested new dac and this ZOTL  amplifier i will want to buy very costly speakers now, and to beat the Mission Cyrus 781 bass and beautiful sound with more resolving power guess how much money i will need to pay?

A big amount.... 😊

I am not in an  upgrade mood anymore after my ecoustic experiments in my dedicated audio room...I dont need to....I could not even use my 8 headphones now because they dont beat my system/room... Then ?

No problem Mahgister - I too remain open minded with regards some low cost items sounding very good in the right environment (hence why I purchased the SPS DAC3 but now finding that inadequate once you have listened to something like the AN 0.1x).

No problem Mahgister - I too remain open minded with regards some low cost items sounding very good in the right environment (hence why I purchased the SPS DAC3 but now finding that inadequate once you have listened to something like the AN 0.1x).

For example - go in the search for the rather plasticky looking very much under the radar Grundig V1700 and with the right speakers that amp is excellent beyond what you would have thought capable.

For example I connected an expensive dCS Network Bridge to the Audio Note 0.1x then for fun into a Grundig V1700 - the Grundig did not sound like a bottleneck!

It's another cheap option that you can play with perhaps.

Mahgister - I know you have the very good SPS DAC 3 - I also own that DAC but the Audio Note 0.1x is so so much better - I think if you are going to work your magic then work on AN’s affordable DAC, it’s light years better than the already good SPS. Just try it and see!

I am sure that you are right.... Thanks for the recommendation...

But you know i pay 20 bucks my SPS Dac3, 😁😊...

It work marvel in my small acoustically dedicated room...

my other components cost me peanuts too and are on the same level of quality: Mission Cyrus 781 and Sansui AU 7700 ...

Then this ratio S.Q./price is very good and adding a piece that will cost me 4 times thge basic cost of my complete system, which is under 500 bucks will not be rational for me...

i enjoy a very good experience so much i dont want to improve it with  very higher cost... It will costme 15,000 bucks to substantially improved the three components... And even if i had the money i will not do it.... The orchestra already filled my room...

I dont own the best system there is, but the best ratio S.Q./Price system possible...

my actual system beat my 8 modified headphones...

it is enough and it was my goal to begin with not to compete with higher costlier system... Anyway i dont need to....

my deepest respect to you....

When I read these threads they make me laugh! Not only do DACs make a significant difference in the audio chain - digital transports do too.

In fact cheap out on your digital front end then don't bother auditioning amps and speakers - you just ain't going to get the best out of them. I would go as far as saying with confidence that the importance of system building is working from the top down!

Mahgister - I know you have the very good SPS DAC 3 - I also own that DAC but the Audio Note 0.1x is so so much better - I think if you are going to work your magic then work on AN's affordable DAC, it's light years better than the already good SPS. Just try it and see!

oy vey...  

I am operating under the assumptions that we MAY discuss without insulting each others... Arguments matter...

I dont "butt in" like you pretend, i observed that your answer with an insult in a "biases" matter discussion is inappropriate especially with annoying children like cartoon...I dont like stupid cartoon... Sorry....

You can mute yourself and not answering to my observation or apologize for insulting someone... But i can make my observation, i am not perfect either, insults annoy me... Even if they are not  directed against me...

You’re operating under the mistaken assumption that I’m somehow obligated to talk to you, even when you butt in, looking for ways to argue with me.

Silly.

You're operating under the mistaken assumption that I'm somehow obligated to talk to you, even when you butt in, looking for ways to argue with me. 

Silly.

All the best,
Nonoise

I dicuss if you remind my posts...I always give arguments, not ad hominem attacks...

I ceased to discuss with someone when someone used insults and insinuations like you just did because you are unable to any rational thinking sometimes...Save to appeal to scapegoating me because i dont appreciate cartoon insult poster of any kind ...

mahgister, the world was a better place when you were arguing with highfijack.

«A wise person recognize himself with or without a mirror, a fool cannot even with a mirror»-Anonymus smith

i am able to apologize when i am wrong...

Imitate me...

mahgister, the world was a better place when you were arguing with highfijack.

Your cartoon is an insult not the two lines of jessmith...What is my mess? my observation about your habit to post cartonnish insult? 😁😊

You have probably not understood the link between biases and cognitive resonant/dissonant behaviour and take it to be an insult instead of going on with this very important point about LEARNED biases positive and negative role and function in perception...

Then take a mirror....

mahgister....what a lame attempt to clean up your mess.

for example this is an insult:

Stupid people dont mind to look stupid because the pleasure associated by the liberation of their anger toward something they dont understand superseeded their self social control and pride...

Wise people are too ashamed to systematically insult someone or about something they dont understand...

I prefer to be "schyzo" instead of writing post like that... it is not a shame at all to be a schizophren, but posting this is a shame...

@mahgister

you do not KNOW ANYTHING. MILLER CARBON! tech him a lesson.

your AUDIO room LOOKS like a crazy persons room or somebody who has skitsofrenia.

psycho-acoustic relation...ya i think you are psycho in relation to acousics

mahgister....what a lame attempt to clean up your mess.

@nonoise + 1

A  two line remark of jessmith  about biases and cognitive dissonance which is also a part of the analysis when we think about biases as LEARNED habits and not only simple prejudices but also cognitive resonant/dissonant  mechanism is not an insult...

Save for someone ego who react by a patent cartoon image insult instead of answering about the question linked to biases and the  cognitive dissonance mechanism related to biases learning histories...

In a word jessmith was notinsulting you but pointing to you something about what  are biases in a more general way...

Wow mahgister, what part of

Then you obviously don’t understand the concept of confirmation bias, nor I suspect cognitive dissonance either.

don’t you seem to comprehend as insulting?

Wow mahgister, what part of 

Then you obviously don't understand the concept of confirmation bias, nor I suspect cognitive dissonance either.

don't you seem to comprehend as insulting? (I'll make it easy for you...it's the part of the sentence after the comma).

Now didn't I already point out that you're taking almost every opportunity to jump on my posts to vain attempts to get at me and that it's making you look foolish?

All the best,
Nonoise

First he stated his viewpoint without insulting YOU...

Second i think you are right about biases, but why not explaining your point of view? Instead of posting an insult against his intelligence...

Third, yes i admit that i answered to some of your posts...I try to be kind, i dont succeed all time, and no i am not above people, i am above political ideolologies, ...

Four i always substantiated my answers to your post with arguments...for example in another thread you have denounced people turning audiogon into "facebook" wars of images and insults cartoons i only suggest here to your own reflection : why do you do it yourself ?

For example explain your viewpoint about biases to this poster instead of insult... I will approve your post because i think the same about biases as you i think....

Anyway i will not answer with an insulting cartoon toward you if i am in disagreement with you for sure... I dont like image cartoon with insults associated to someone like you seems to like it...

I am sorry if we differ in taste....

By the way i dont have facebook...

Gee mahgister.......if you cared to actually read what he wrote, you’d find it very insulting in it’s insinuation. I used humor to deflect.

What you should do is stop jumping at every chance to try to get back at me, which makes it clear what your motives are.

For all the pontification you do about being above it all and being kind, you don’t practice it so much. Is that not a contradiction?

All the best,
Nonoise

Gee mahgister.......if you cared to actually read what he wrote, you'd find it very insulting in it's insinuation. I used humor to deflect.

What you should do is stop jumping at every chance to try to get back at me, which makes it clear what your motives are.

For all the pontification you do about being above it all and being kind, you don't practice it so much. Is that not a contradiction?

All the best,
Nonoise

Nonoise even if you are right about the bias question here, and i think you are right, why posting image insults like in "facebook" instead of EXPLAINING why he is wrong?

In another post you described how you hate people here turning audiogon into facebook ?

Is it not a contradiction?

Some of you clearly need to head over to ASR and ruminate there.  Then maybe this tedious troll of thread would die the quick death it should have.

@jjss49 ,

Maybe someone needs to put an Echo Dot in an aluminum case ship it with a special power supply and sell it for $2499.99. What do you think the response would be then?

Then you obviously don't understand the concept of confirmation bias, nor I suspect cognitive dissonance either.

All the best,
Nonoise

@thyname 

The gear itself is meaningless to me

🙄 Obviously. For those who think everything sounds the same.

Where did I say everything sounds the same? As a matter of fact, in my first statement of this thread I explained how DAC manufacturers can purposefully make a DAC sound different.

My main source currently is Amazon Music HD via an Echo wirelessly 

Yup

Is this a put-down by status statement, or are you admitting you don't know how digital transmission works? Just a rhetorical question.

@nonoise Then you obviously don't understand the concept of confirmation bias, nor I suspect cognitive dissonance either.

@jssmith I think mine is a 3rd generation.