I’ve replaced all 5 of the SR BLACK fuses in my system with the new SR BLUE fuses. Cold, out of the box, the BLUE fuses stomped the fully broken-in SR BLACKS in a big way. As good as the SR BLACK fuses were/are, especially in comparison with the SR RED fuses, SR has found another break-through in fuses.
1. Musicality ... The system is totally seamless at this point. Its as if there is no system in the room, only a wall to wall, front to back and floor to ceiling music presentation with true to life tonality from the various instruments.
2. Extension ... I’ve seemed to gain about an octave in low bass response. This has the effect of putting more meat on the bones of the instruments. Highs are very extended, breathing new life into my magic percussion recordings. Vibes, chimes, bells, and triangles positioned in the rear of the orchestra all have improved. I’ve experienced no roll-off of the highs what so ever with the new BLUE fuses. Just a more relaxed natural presentation.
3. Dynamics ... This is a huge improvement over the BLACK fuses. Piano and vibes fans ... this is fantastic.
I have a Japanese audiophile CD of Flamenco music ... the foot stomps on the stage, the hand clapping and the castanets are present like never before. Want to hear natural sounding castanets? Get the BLUE fuses.
4. Mid range ... Ha! Put on your favorite Ben Webster album ... and a pair of adult diapers. Play Chris Connor singing "All About Ronnie," its to die for.
Quick .... someone here HAS to buy this double album. Its a bargain at this price. Audiophile sound, excellent performance by the one and only Chris Connor. Yes, its mono ... but so what? Its so good you won’t miss the stereo effects. If you’re the lucky person who scores this album, please post your results here.
Where the RED fuses took about 20 hours to sound their best, and the BLACK fuses took upwards of 200 hours of total break-in, the BLUE fuses sounded really good right out of the box ... and that’s without doing anything about proper directional positioning. Not that the BLUE fuses don’t need breaking in, they do. The improvement continues through week three. Its a gradual break-in thing where each listening session is better than the last.
Everything I described above continues to break new ground in my system as the fuses continue breaking in. Quite honestly, I find it difficult to tear myself away from the system in order to get things done. Its truly been transformed into a magical music machine. With the expenditure of $150.00 and a 30 day return policy there’s really nothing to lose. In my system, its like upgrading to a better pre amp, amp, CD player or phono stage. Highly recommended.
Kudos to Ted Denney and the entire staff at SR. Amazing stuff, guys. :-)
Frank
PS: If you try the SR BLUE fuses, please post your results here. Seems the naysayers, the Debbie Downers and Negative Nellie’s have hijacked the original RED fuse thread. A pox on their houses and their Pioneer receivers.
I'll be interested to see what you think of the AM beeswax compared to the SR Blue. I switched about a year ago from a SR Black to the beeswax in my amp and dac and much preferred the beeswax.
Just curious if you people with a very dramatic difference, if you’re plugging your products directly into the wall, or into a power conditioner? I have my amps and preamps plugged into an Audio Magic Stealth conditioner and the fuse effect is minor ar best. I imagine the effect is greater if plugged directly into a wall, and then of course dependent on the quality of the mains power. Also likely less if aftermarket power cords are used.
The difference in my system was the SR Black was open and airy but at the expense of sounding a little thin and too light. The beeswax seemed to offer more meat on the bones kinda feel while having a more quiet background which seemed to provide better detail without sacrificing some warmth. My system skirts the line of neutrality so sometimes something like a fuse or power cable can tip the scale quite easily.
I may try an SR Blue myself for the fun of it and take advantage of the 30 day trial.
@dbarger the effect is completely independent of prior power conditioning. I use a Torus WM 75 BAL with SR QT Romex in wall into Synergistic 12UEF conditioners into a mix of SR and AQ power cords and the introduction of one fuse at any step in the system is quite obvious
I've got a CPT Equi=Core 300 Balanced PC plugged into the wall with a High Fidelity MC-0.5 in the same duplex. The CPT feeds a Tara Labs Power Screen. My components are all plugged into that with Cerious GE PCs. The effects of changing the black fuse in my amp for a blue were easily discernible.
In agreement with last two posts. My system is connected through Nordost QRT components and I have heard improvements every time I played with after market fuses.
I have all my source and pre-amp components plugged into a Bryston Bit 20 isolation transformer and my amps plugged directly into the same SR Black duplex. Only the amps require fuses. Plugging the amps into the Bryston ruins the sound by depressing the power available (30% decrease in voltage as read by my bias meters) squashing dynamics.and clarity.
Well, the SR Blues are so dramatic in my Maggie 3.6Rs over the also-impressive SR Blacks, I had to add just one more SR Blue --to the AC main input of my Wadia 861SE, from 2003. The Wadia uses the smaller, 20mm, 250V fuse at 1A. Since I push all values, I put in a 2.5A SR Blue to replace a 2A Black. The effects were immediate: more information in a more deeply-textured presentation. I had to turn down the volume of the REL Strata III subs again, just as when adding the Blacks to the ARC amps' and subs' AC inputs. The increase in low midrange with the SR fuses has required a backing down of the REL roll-offs from 30hz to 28 and now to 26. There has just been too much bass from both the 3.6Rs and the subs together when adding these fuses. Perhaps I can add some bass back as these fuses mature, but for now, the overall balance of sound favors the low and midrange frequencies with more information, which is not to say the highs are suffering--just that they are somewhat overwhelmed, depending on the recording, and I wonder if this is the effect some of you are getting when you say the highs seem rolled off with the SR Blues--time will tell. Regarding the use of isolation transformers and power cell/conditioners in conjunction with fuse upgrades, I also have only heard improvements by using all of these power-improving accessories. Much has been said in many threads about what is gained and what is lost by trying the myriad products out there, but one rule appears constant; according to the product's capability and system requirements, front-end components are best served first, but as Folkfreak describes, the ultimate application is first a 240V/120V transformer service for all components, then other conditioners after that, as desired. In my layman's experience, these fuses are an extension of a solid foundation of pure and plentiful AC power, the medium upon which we are modulating our music signal. What could be a better pursuit than this?
I have done a lot of experimenting with fuses a lot has to do with the circuit design some housing heavy Copper traces on the circuit board ,and the acme silver plated fuse holders or other brands made the impact much less no matter what the fuses for the fuse is the bottle neck .Pass labs and a few others Donot use fuses in some of their gear ,just a breaker. I was saying the pricing is getting out of control $150 a fuses, now audio magic $230 bees wax-honey,and I am sure it damps it well, sonicly ? No idea but in a pinch great in Tea. One thing I found multitudes better, a great Power cord ,your source - Digital for example . I seen a demonstration with several well known cords the Verastarr we found had the biggest improvement vs $$ spent. Yes their was a Elrod that was slightly better But at 4x the cost IMO way excessive per return on dollar spent. power cords are another subject entirely .i am just saying a good Hifi tuning supreme fuse is 3x less but spend on a reference power cord it is night and day more of an impact in your digital product better then a double blind test 5 people ,the 6th was doing the demo with both a Meitner, and Lumin -S with outboard PS.
@jafreeman , I experienced a similar result with my fuses: having to turn the volume down. The pressure seemed to be too much of a good thing. One thing I hope you avoid (which I didn't) is the questioning of your state of mind. As to your thoughts on maybe returning to 'normal' levels after a time, that was my experience. About a week ago I found myself turning the volume back up to where I used to have it on most recordings. It's been a few months since I swapped fuses so that may give you an idea of how long it may take. YMMV.
A word on Blue fuse break in. While Blue fuses tend to outperform fully broken-in Black fuses straight out of the box, there is still a burn in process and just as with the Black fuses, it takes about 200-to-300 hrs to reach full performance. However unlike Black fuses with their wild sonic fluctuations, and in some systems possible brightness while still breaking in, Blue fuses tend to sound more natural and dimensional throughout a smooth and linear burn-in period. During this time the Blue fuse will open up across all frequencies until timbral linearity occurs some time between 200 and 300 hrs. One other area where the Blue fuse balances out is in its sound-staging which becomes more expansive and layered especially in the mid-range. As with everything else in high resolution audio, good things come to those who wait but straight out of the box the Blue fuse is a total winner.
Yours in music, Ted Denney Lead Designer, Synergistic Research Inc.
I'm curious, Mr. Denney, what do you mean specifically about "wild sonic fluctuations" with the Black fuse? Does that mean that its response varries drastically from one situation to another, or from one component to another? Have you experienced greater high frequency response from the Black fuse vs. the Blue fuse?
He's talking about during the break in process, not after they’re broken in. He's saying the blues have a smoother break in than the blacks. This aligns with my experience breaking in blacks vs. blues.
The black fuse sounded dreadful between 15 and 60 hours breaking in. I had to leave my amps on continuously to arrive at 72 hour break in where they sounded great. The blue fuse sounds wonderful now with nearly 20 hours on them. 200 to 300 hours will take several months as I do not intend to leave my big power amps on continuously for weeks. It's good to know that it will get even better in time. My hat's off to SR for making the fuse sound great as soon as it's used at only $20 more.
Ignore the previous commentator. He's got a problem and doesn't belong on this site-nothing positive comes out of his poison pen. A nihilist.
imgoodwithtools, Sorry for the confusion. I am taking about the break in process, not the final result. While Black fuses can go from positive to negitive and back again during break in, Blue starts out musical and opens smoothly during the break in process. As to high frequencies, the new Blue fuses have greater HF extension with more air and a larger sound filed than Black after both are fully broken in.
Yours in music, Ted Denney Lead Designer Synergistic Research Inc.
Thank you for your response, Mr. Denney. I highly respect your product, as I am currently running both your Galileo LE speaker cables and AES/EBU digital interconnect. I also have gotten great results from your Black fuse. I have tried your Blue fuse, but as of now, prefer the Black. I hear considerably more air and sparkle around high register piano and cymbals with the Black fuse. I do hear a richer midrange body with the Blue. Is this an anomaly?
@imgoodwithtools quick question -- which tuning bullets do you prefer with your Galileo LE speaker cables? If you are running the grey bullets the blacks will probably be a better match as the grey's have less sparkle and HF extension, the combination with the Blue fuse may then be too much. Arguably the silvers are more true to life, but can in many systems sound etched. This was certainly my experience until I dealt with a lot of other noise and vibration issues in my system -- I started off with the grey bullets and then over time moved to the silver. All in all the tonal shifts we are experiencing are all well within the envelope of historic SR products
Now Ted if only you could be consistent in aligning the colors of SR products with the tonal shifts they produce 😇 !
As like you, folkfreak, I started with a mixture of grey and silver while running some Ayre electronics. The sound was too threadbare with all silver. Now that I'm running Audio Research and D'Agostino electronics, I've moved to all silver bullets.
FWIW, my Wife, whose opinion I trust when listening to things music prefers the Blue fuse. She says the increased richness, three-dimensionality, and overall musical nature of the Blue fuse outweighs any merits of the Black fuse. This is not quite cause for divorce. Yet. LOL
Try mixing and matching the Blues and the Blacks and see if that doesn't hit the sweet spot. Perhaps try a HiFi Tuning Supreme Cardas Copper fuse in the mix...
Since Mr. Denney reads this thread, I am simply asking him for an explanation as to how and why his fuses can supposedly transform the tone of a component. What do they do? How can a fuse, which seems like a passive safety item, for example have an influence the HF extension of a system? Seems like a simple question, and although many cable designers, outboard tweak makers (shelves, footers, etc.) amp designers, speaker designers, and many others are glad to explain design decisions, I'm still in the dark about these fuses…enlighten me please.
wolf_garcia: Excellent question. I'd like to learn more about this myself. Let's hope we get an answer, because I can surely hear differences.
I have a challenge for you. Seek out your local Synergistic Research dealer and ask them to demonstrate fuses or tuning bullets for you. Listen for yourself.
dlcockrum: I won't be using multiple fuses. I plan to optimize one component, my Audio Research Reference 6 preamp, with the best sounding fuse I can find. I will trust my ears to make the decision.
It must have been over 25 years ago, Dave. I was auditioning a used Conrad Johnson PV-5 preamp in a small, second-hand audio store in Denver. They threw together a turntable, the PV-5, a Mark Levinson ML-9 (I think), and some speakers. The system sounded a little bright and edgy. I said so. The owner of the shop changed One Thing, the interconnect between the preamp and amp. No more bright and edgy. Wow. That change changed my world. I've been trusting my ears since that day.
That's what I did testing half a dozen brands of vibration devices in 2015. I chose Stillpoints for my tube gear of various types Ultra and SS. The absolute worst was the Magico Q-Pods which had blacker backgrounds as claimed but killed the pace of the music most definitely as well as sounding dark and bloated. Robert and I tried it under all source equipment phono pre-amp, CD player and both pre-amp and amps. Nada, just bad! Some of the other vibration devices were nearly as good or similarly good as Stillpoints, but I liked the greater clarity and openness of them over the slight loss of tonal richness. Then I changed the fuses from stock Littlefuses to Black fuses bring back the tonal richness.
So, when I heard the blue fuse, I immediately liked the sound. Robert heard them in Frank's system and immediately liked the sound. So, three unbiased opinions. And my very critical wife. The blue fuse is great in our tube based systems based on what our ears tell us.
The real weakness of SR fuses is timbre. My question: is the
Blue any better than other SR fuses in this department?
Willgolf, you did
compare Padis and Blue fuses. Your conclusion "..I switched back to the Padis fuse. There is absolutely no degradation of sound and imo it might
be better than the SR Blue."
Padis fuses have a reputation of bright
sounding. Is the Blue as "bright " as Padis? Personally, I don't like bright
sounding systems, not natural, kind of sterile.
Even if you accept the premise of a fuse having an audible effect, or better yet hear it for yourself, why on Earth should or could one retail for $150? It is the price more than anything that raises a red flag for skeptics, is it not? Of course, if a money back guarantee is in fact offered, the genuinely curious can listen for themselves. If you don't hear a difference, what does it matter what the designer cites as the rational for it's design, or claims of performance? If you do hear a difference, and assuming it's for the better, the question then becomes does the improvement justify the cost?
At least ten of us here have testified that we hear an improvement over the stock fuse with SR fuses. Most here agree the new Blue fuse is best. I'm still investigating, and am still on the fence, whether the Blue fuse is best, for me, considering All the competition.
I am an engineer by trade. The Only thing that matters is how does it sound. But if an explanation on how the technology works is available, I'm interested.
I don't want to diminish the fact that $150 is a lot of money. To some people, that's their food budget for the month. But, I'd suggest that if one is considering spending $150 on a fuse, that they are most likely into high-end audio, at least where the benefits can be heard. I spend more than $150 per month on music.
High-end audio is a niche market. There is little or no benefit of scale or volume. Think of the time and money spent on development. Then manufacture. With fuses, all the different loads and sizes. Then packaging and marketing. To my ears, a $150 component that provides what I've heard from fuses is a bargain.
@bdp24 it’s an odd phenomenon, but many people only value something if it is expensive. They equate cost with performance. For people of this psychological make up, if something is free or inexpensive, it must be worthless. Likewise, if something is expensive or hard to get, it must be incredible.
Not only does SR sell more fuses this way (because let’s be honest, many audiophiles are in this psychological camp), they also make more money and acquire an air of exclusivity.
This has nothing to do with the performance of the fuses, simply an observation I’ve made, teaching yoga and DJing over the last 20 years. If I offer my services for free, my students aren’t as committed or the people I’m playing for aren’t as interested in what I’m playing. If I charge a bunch, my students are focused and come to class more consistently and my DJ clients promote me more and are more interested in what I’m doing.
My ARC ph8 has a 2 amp fuse. I replaced the 5 amp Black fuse in my Ref 6 with a Blue 5 amp fuse. Does anyone know if there is a risk with putting my Black 5 amp fuse in my ph8, replacing the stock 2 amp fuse?
Padis fuses have a reputation of bright sounding. Is the Blue as "bright " as Padis? Personally, I don't like bright sounding systems, not natural, kind of sterile.
I've only tried two types of fuses-the HiFi Tuning Silver Star and the PADIS and to my ears, the PADIS are not at all bright sounding. They sound very even handed to my ears. The HiFi fuses had an emphasis on the leading edge, giving them a lively presentation, but at the expense with a slight lessening of everything else. If I hadn't tried the PADIS, I'd be happy with the HiFi fuses.
For about $30, the PADIS are at least worth a try.
PADIS are not bright sounding. I would actually say they are slightly rolled off in the highs and a tiny bit warm when compared to a true Furutech. The Furutech may be described as lean/bright because it is so revealing, but in my opinion the truly bright fuses are Synergistic SR20 and Hi-Fi Tuning Supreme (because of the silver).
I actually did test of a pile of SR fuses a while back and found that they did nothing special at all except for a melting issue (!) seemingly due to a poor fuse rating. Nothing when compared to the $2 Littelfuse products I generally use. Zero. So, regardless of the SR fans who claim to not wonder at all about how or why the SR fuse magic manifests itself (and my ongoing utter disbelief of the claims of profound audio tonal improvement from use of a "special" fuse), my question remains…Ted Denney…you listening? Maybe provide a simple answer, or a complicated answer, or something, as I’m not the only one who would like to know. Thanks in advance.
There is just no mistaking the sonic improvements of the SR line of fuses over several years in my system. Their value is to extend the useful life of the component you may have wanted to upgrade. Spending 2K on fuses has been far more economical to me than spending untold thousands more. How do they work? They are better conductors than the tiny filaments in glass---question is, how much are they part of the circuit? Wolf, you seem to be hung up on this aspect. Perhaps Al can define the various positions of fuses and their part in signal conduction. I know if I remove the fuses from the AC main inputs, the equipment won't work at all. I believe the fuses in my Maggie 3.6 tweeter and midrange fuse bank are part of the final signal pathway. Are they the complete pathway, or are they a shunt to receive an overload? How about the AC position--and the rail fuse?
As I pointed out on (I think) a different post, there are 3 levels of fuses out there with the first two for commercial use. The 1st level is the cheap, standard fuse that varies more than it should concerning it's rating and the next level up are the boutique fuses which melt exactly when they should.
If you're device is drawing more current than what it should, maybe you need to take a long, hard look at your component and find out why it's doing what it shouldn't be doing.
Furutech fuses are rebranded Padis. The only difference Furutech's are cryo treated (and more expensive :) ). Padis rolled off in highs doesn't mean it's not bright. Furutech: bright, dynamic, detailed, lean. Padis must share "the housesound" . I haven't tried Padis though. Hifi Tuning Supreme (silver) is slightly bright and lean, Supreme Cardas is a different story.
The HiFi Supreme Cardas Cu version is slightly warmer and more organic sounding compared to SR Black or HiFi Silver Supremes..try it in your digital source and you may end up thanking me :-)
There're no silver bullets, even fuses are component dependent. I've compared Furutech with SR Red and Blacks on same component and Furutech is darker, thicker, more colored ... similar to HiFi Tuning Supremes.
Jafreeman 10-27-2017 How do they work? They are better conductors than the tiny filaments in glass---question is, how much are they part of the circuit? ... Perhaps Al can define the various positions of fuses and their part in signal conduction. I know if I remove the fuses from the AC main inputs, the equipment won’t work at all. I believe the fuses in my Maggie 3.6 tweeter and midrange fuse bank are part of the final signal pathway. Are they the complete pathway, or are they a shunt to receive an overload? How about the AC position--and the rail fuse?
Aside perhaps for some unusual circuit configurations that may exist in a few designs, a fuse will always be in series with what it is protecting, rather than in shunt (i.e., in parallel). Otherwise the fuse wouldn’t be able to interrupt the current drawn by the equipment that is being protected, when a fault in the equipment makes that necessary.
Regarding upgraded fuses being better conductors, I’ve indicated in some previous fuse-related threads that when the resistance numbers that are available for various fuse types are looked at quantitatively the bottom line generally appears to be that they are small enough to at most be marginally significant in some applications, but not in most applications. And in the case of mains fuses the voltage drops corresponding to those resistances would certainly be vastly smaller than the +/- 6 volt tolerance we have in the USA on our incoming 120 volt AC. IMO what stands a greater chance of being significant more often are the **fluctuations** in fuse resistance that occur in applications where the the amount of current being conducted by the fuse fluctuates widely. Which in turn could very conceivably result in modulation or intermodulation effects on the signal. That would apply to speaker applications (as you’ve found with your Maggies), and to many power amplifier applications. Most preamps and source components, though, draw essentially the same amount of current all the time.
Nonoise 10-27-2017 As I pointed out on (I think) a different post, there are 3 levels of fuses out there with the first two for commercial use. The 1st level is the cheap, standard fuse that varies more than it should concerning it’s rating and the next level up are the boutique fuses which melt exactly when they should.
If you’re device is drawing more current than what it should, maybe you need to take a long, hard look at your component and find out why it’s doing what it shouldn’t be doing.
I recall that you’ve mentioned the statements in the first paragraph were told to you by a seller of boutique fuses. Is there any other basis that you are aware of for these statements? I am not aware of any other basis.
And I can recall that at least 8 different members have reported here in the past year or two that boutique fuses blew in their equipment, which in most or all cases had presumably been operating without issue for a considerable amount of time with the stock fuses. In most of those cases the fuse which blew had the same current rating as the stock fuse, but in at least one case I can recall the upgraded fuse blew even though it had a significantly higher current rating than the stock fuse.
Also, it’s perhaps relevant that the technical data supplied by Littelfuse and Cooper Bussmann for their fuses is vastly more comprehensive than data I’ve ever seen for any boutique fuse. And included in the data provided by Littelfuse and Cooper Bussmann is a melting point specification, measured in amps squared x seconds, which I’ve never seen provided for a boutique fuse. Admittedly, though, that particular spec is just provided in the form of a nominal value, without a +/- tolerance.
Finally, my perception and my own experience has been that with very rare exceptions stock fuses in audio equipment tend to blow when and only when a fault in the equipment makes it necessary.
So if I’m correct in interpreting the second paragraph I quoted from your post as implying that the equipment should be blamed when a boutique fuse blows and there is no evidence of an outright fault in the equipment, I would have to respectfully disagree.
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