nonoise - ...One must first empirically observe something with (in this case) their own ears. if validation is necessary or demanded by someone else, then by all means, go and do the research yourself. Yes and no. The validation portion of the quoted statement cannot be done by anyone other than yourself. And you haven't been honest with yourself if you haven't tried your ears at a blind test. So the observation portion of your statement utilizes many more senses than just hearing; like sight and touch. thecarpathian - Um...how can anyone get ripped off when the seller offers a full money back guarantee? By spending $150 for something no different than what you could otherwise spend $2 on. |
Carpathian
That would likely be stock answer #2 I think.......
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Actually I would definitely prefer to be a part of the "awesome foursome" than the founder member of the "lonesome ownsome"
Thanks bud! |
Georgehifi sez ... - And speaker room-placement also for the first two (depth and width) ...
Understood George ... but the question was "
What devises would you use to measure depth, sound stage width, organic realism, transparency and emotional impact of the music itself?" Care to answer the question George? Frank |
Shoot!
I would not have bet on #3 again! |
Um...how can anyone get ripped off when the seller offers a full money back guarantee?
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George ... What devises would you use to measure depth, sound stage width, organic realism, transparency and emotional impact of the music itself? It all come under good design, and what constitutes that are the designers themselves, with NO "snake oil" involved. And speaker room-placement also for the first two (depth and width) As everything the designers makes is done with electronic engineering principals and it’s associated maths, measurements and tests. Every piece of equipment you have is done this way, yet you think your fuse "snake oil" can improve on it???? What a laugh!!! You "awesome foursome" have none of that, and are not even backed up with your claims personally by SR the fuse manufacture them-selves, even though they advertise here. That’s how much "snake oil" you preach. I’m going to stop boosting this "snake oil" thread for a while. So you "Awesome Foursome" will have to do it on your "Pat Malone". I"LL BE BACK, if later if I see extraordinary claims on what a fuse can do!!!!! Just to keep it real, so the non technical here don't get ripped off for $150 for a $2 fuse. Cheers George |
Good ol' George relies on "electronic reasoning" (whatever the hell that means) and "scientific knowledge". Maybe he needs a remedial reminder on just how we get to what is considered science: Empirical evidence is information acquired by observation or experimentation. Scientists record and analyze this data. The process is a central part of the scientific method. Note: "either or" in that statement. One must first empirically observe something with (in this case) their own ears. if validation is necessary or demanded by someone else, then by all means, go and do the research yourself. Empirical evidence is good enough to arrive at a conclusion. The "electronic reasoning" can be left to the die hards to figure out. If they don't care to figure it out, it could be that they're afraid of something. All the best, Nonoise |
Peeing up a rope is funnier. I heard that one from an admiral. He didn’t say it to me personally.
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Arguing with George is like spitting into the wind.
What is so "scientific" about never hearing something but being cock-sure that you know what it sounds like?
George ... What devises would you use to measure depth, sound stage width, organic realism, transparency and emotional impact of the music itself?
Frank |
George,
Hey, you gave it your best shot. Walk tall. 🦒
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At least I had the nads to take a leap and spend some "bucks".
And just did so again with positive results to my ears.
Or maybe you have missed that little fact.
And yes I consider it a fact if I can hear a difference, really could not give a flying fig about your negative nelly opinions George.
But please do keep em coming, THAT is what is driving this thread right now.....LOL |
Told you once twinkletoes
The Magnificent Seven......
🐴🐴🐴🐴🐴🐴🐴
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Same "Awesome Foursome" just trying to keep boosting this thread to keep the "snake oil" bucks coming in.
Cheers George |
George stock answer #3
Bets on #2 or # 4 or # 1 next? |
Gosh, I wonder what the odds are crazyeddie won’t hear a damn thing. Gotta be 1 to 10,000. Anybody down for a poll?
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Sorry George, But my whole life and work is based around common sense and practical application.
This fuse "snake oil" is not common sense nor is it practical application, if it were the manufacturers SR would be personally backing all fusers claims made here on the the "massive sound quality improvements" and the clearly heard difference in "directionality" of this >$150 mains fuse. Cheers George |
I have no expectations one way or the other guys. I'll let my ears do the "thinking" for me on this one. LOL
Cheers |
Eddy
I would be shocked if you do not hear an improvement BUT it will be what it will be, whichever way please do return to let us know how it all panned out
Best of luck
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@crazyeddy,
I trust you'll be pleasantly surprised. Do let us know how it works out.
👍 |
@crazyeddy
You're welcome. Best of luck with the fuse(s) and please do post your impressions. |
@david_ten @gdhal @nonoise @nonoise Thanks guys. I will posts my thoughts once I get a chance to get them into my gear. I realize that there are many skeptics, in regards to this fuse tweak, but I could care less. I feel that it is such an insignificant expenditure, I have little to lose if there is no sonic benefit, and if indeed they do make a positive difference, I have an inexpensive improvement. |
Last two posts before mine are both spot on and both absolutely correct.
However certain members just are not open minded enough to even consider that possibility and are stuck in a rut.
Nice posts both mitch and Carpathian. |
@geoffkait
It could be simply the buzz that convinces a potential customer. Good one Geoff, I think there are a lot of "buzzed" audiophiles....Happy belated 4/20! Look, we can argue the science but we can't effectively argue perception, which can be influenced by a variety of stimuli, including what we (believe we) hear and not excluding visual appearances of things (think red, black, blue - I think purple is next), as well as the "buzz" we read about. The reason there will never be a "resolution" to this thread that satisfies both believers and non-believers, is that would require alignment of both the science argument and the perception argument - just ain't gonna happen. |
Say you flip this argument around. The premise being there is a mountain of irrefutable evidence; verifiable and measurable data proving without question that these fuses will enhance the sound quality of your system. You buy them and install them. You turn on your system, put on your favorite song and....nothing different. You hear no discernible improvement whatsoever. You try another song using a different source. Still nothing. To your ears, your system sounds exactly as it did before you installed the new fuses. Does that make you wrong? Are you fooling yourself that you can’t hear what is now-based on irrefutable scientific evidence-a superior sound signal? Would those who clearly did hear a difference then proceed to mock as delusional those who couldn’t hear it and state as much? Point being; your perception is your reality. If you perceive it to be true, to you it is. Regardless of proof, measurable or empirical, that is your reality. I now find it silly to argue with someone that they are or aren’t hearing something they clearly believe to be true. Especially when you haven’t tried it for yourself. Especially with a nothing to lose money back guarantee.
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Sorry George
But my whole life and work is based around common sense and practical application.
I definitely do not fall into your 1% category.
What I do have is a pair of fully functional ears.....
Try a pair..... |
This is not a murder trial. It’s an audio hobby. Hel-loo! We don’t require PROOF. In a court of law PROOF is desirable but not required “Proof” doesn’t necessary win the case, either. Proof can be shot down. Proof can be subjective. The glove thing, remember? 🥊 The case won’t even go to the District Attorney unless there is a “lot of evidence,” you know, multiple eye witnesses, blood evidence, etc. The jury and judge examine the EVIDENCE. They don’t examine proof. Here in the fuse thread the evidence is not examined, it’s ignored. Hel-loo!
In audio we look for evidence, too. But we don’t need look for or expect proof in audio. Evidence in audio usually means user testimony, measurements, technical explanation/description, listening tests. It could be simply the buzz that convinces a potential customer. But proof is simply NOT something audiophiles require or expect. Besides what proof would these died-in-the-wool naysayers believe? Probably none. Nada. Zippy dee doo dah. That’s why almost everybody and his brother offers a 30 day money back guarantee. We already know nothing works in all systems OR to the same degree. Hel-loo! The preponderance of the evidence here in the case of Mr. Fuse is around 75,000 to 100. That’s beyond a reasonable doubt.
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Need I say that it goes both ways?All the best, Nonoise I think you’ll find 99% of people with a bit of common sense would go with electronic reasoning, and scientific knowledge over any "snake oil" any day. The 1% are the ones you want. Especially when the comments on the magnitude of sound quality increase, and directional-ability of these >$150 fuses are not backed up personally by the manufacturer, to give you guys any cred. Cheers George |
Georgehifi sez: - Just because you say it, doesn’t mean people should do it. As your saying it with your zero technical cred and zero backing from SR, it’ll be like the self professed leader below saying follow me.
Yes George, except it isn’t just me saying it. The positive responses here on A’gon toward the SR Blue fuses and Tim Mrock’s TC have been overwhelming. And by the way George, the "cartoon" you provided the link for gives great insight into why you have the attitude you do. You couldn’t have exposed yourself in any better way. Knowing what we’re dealing with makes it much easier to understand exactly where you’re coming from. Thanks for posting it. Frank |
This will be my last post on fuses and Graphene/TC or what our supposed US compatriots call them. We go to war together and watch each others backs. I write a reasonable question on AudioGon and get stabbed in the back, insulted without apology by a nasty few (I we know who they are) for asking "where's the proof". At least I apologise if I am out of the respectable line. You few have no respect at all. Good luck to you.
It would be nice for you to have some perspective. You come in, very late in the discussion, thinking what you've said is news to the rest of us. Do yourself a big favor and read all the posts on fuses and you'll see that what you offer has been talked to death already. It's like your George's twin, separated at birth. Just because you say it, doesn’t mean people should do it Need I say that it goes both ways? All the best, Nonoise
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^^^
amg56 ...
Again, for us non-technical folks our "opinion" is based on what we hear. We are not neophytes in the hobby either. 40+ years for me. I can clearly recognize an improvement in SQ ... or a degradation as well. I agree with you that not all tweaks work. Some degrade, some improve and others do nothing at all. I find it very interesting that the folks who are naysayers have never tried either the Blue fuses or TC. I don't understand how one can come to conclusion that something is "bunk," or "snake oil" without trying it for themselves.
I hope that I wasn't one who offended you. If so, be assured that that wasn't my intent at all.
Take care ...
Frank |
Actually we have ears.
Try them, you might just be surprised.
Thank you and good night |
Cor blimey
Strike a light Guv,nor
Is there something in the water in Oz? |
Opinion is not proof, and would not be accepted in court of law. You have no proof, no evidence, only OPINION. Poor sods. Solong. |
This will be my last post on fuses and Graphene/TC or what our supposed US compatriots call them. We go to war together and watch each others backs. I write a reasonable question on AudioGon and get stabbed in the back, insulted without apology by a nasty few (I we know who they are) for asking "where's the proof". At least I apologise if I am out of the respectable line. You few have no respect at all. Good luck to you. Strewth wud epm ear? Sumnubbady nose or dimention it. Om oiz srenna by eediots. Wassa mare view. Oil ave a decko on m'a ornry stro. Reckon os ya peck o' baastuds. Gotta go ya eejuts, salada! |
George.
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Oh so sorry I fell asleep while preparing a reply to your "new" post......
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Looks like it's back to what's real, and not in someones mind eye. The only reason to change a $2 fuse, just replace it with a new $2 one.
Mapman inadvertently is agreeing with what really happens to a partially melted fuse, it's called ageing. Good for you.
Funny this should be mentioned as it's just like what happens to a fuse that's seen too many turn on cycles, as there's far more current goes through it at the moment of switch on than any other time, as it has to charge up empty power supply caps ect. that's why fuses and light globes blow (if nothings wrong) at time of turn on, here are some pics of fuse ageing.
A slow-blo fuse "ageing" right to left
https://peakpinball.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/fuse-8312-640x426.jpg
A fast-blo fuse "ageing" left to right
https://i.stack.imgur.com/0uqWX.jpg%20
Cheers George |
Hi Geoff, back to the graphene. My friend states that since it is only 1 atom thick, it can't possibly be effective or incorporated into a silver based paste and remain 1 atom thick. He states that the exterior paste once applied is like graphite, looks and feels like graphite. He doesn't want anyone to use it on his 99% silver RCA connectors for his ICs. He doesn't believe in micro-arching on the scale that disrupts the audio signal. He said it shouldn't be a big problem for higher voltage connectors such as speaker wire and A/C plugs but hates the stuff in general. I am only relating what this cable manufacturer says. Otherwise, he's brilliant and designs tremendously musical equipment and cables for affordable prices. He's a stubborn guy, so for him to admit the obvious difference in fuses and their directionality is significant. |
^^^
Wait a second guys ... We need to trust George's ears. After all, he knows what we hear, and what we don't hear, all the way from Aussie-Land.
Frank |
georgehifi
Geoffkait: “paint the middle circumference of the fuse body with a thin layer of product, using care not to paint near the fuse caps...”
What will this "snake oil" do????, it can’t be an RF shield without the Graphene coating being earthed to chassis/mains ground, and to do that would be highly dangerous.
>>>>>Baloney, George. It’s not always necessary to ground the shield. This is one of those times? The Graphene shield is not long enough to act like an antenna. That’s why the SR Fuses don’t have to be grounded either. Capish?
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Mike
Glad there are still a few like minded sane souls left in here.
I have always trusted my ears first, I have returned speaker cables before as I did not like the new "tone".
I would not have hesitated one minute to do the same with fuses if I had not perceived a SQ improvement.
3 blacks, 1 blue, ALL raised my system Sq to some degree.
Considering the thousands you can spend on cables, new equipment etc, a couple hundred on fuses? I will take it any day! |
Nice to hear uberwaltz. Good on you for trusting your ears. Many people don't do that today to their detriment. When I was young and my mom called me for dinner I had to trust my ears or you know what? I had to take expectation bias in, the you know what, the rear bias tester. And I swear I could feel that in the rear bias tester, even then I knew it was just expectation bias. Anyway I have been trusting my ears all these years and my system also sounds better with the SR fuses and I just have a black one and two reds.
Like some others I don't have and am not going to get any test equipment. If others would like some kind of a more extensive test I hope they do that to satisfy their curiosity. My curiosity doesn't need it. I asked myself and it said 'No just doesn't need it'. I figured out even if I did do all these tests-jack and jill, measurement ones and so on, my ears, the two I have on the side of my head for listening, would be the final testing device. Does that make sense to let you ears be the final testing device for a listening activity? Isn't the music made for your ears? If you design a piece of equipment in a sound way, can you make adjustments by ear for it to be more pleasing? Hmmm? Well I am not the sharpest tool in the box but that makes sense to me.
I really don't care what you call it, voodoo dust, fairy smoke, snake lotion, horse man... . Whatever it is is sure sounds good. |
paint the middle circumference of the fuse body with a thin layer of product, using care not to paint near the fuse caps What will this "snake oil" do????, it can’t be an RF shield without the Graphene coating being earthed to chassis/mains ground, and to do that would be highly dangerous. |
Well here goes
Back home today from a week working in Orange County and both my new OPPO UDP205 and SR Blue fuse were waiting for me.
Inserted said Blue into Goldnote PH-10 phono stage and left it on just to warm through a bit.
Played vinyl I am very familiar with and......
IMHO there is an increased feel of depth to the music overall, female vocals and acoustic guitars have more definition, bass just feels tighter, not deeper or louder but, well just more. Instruments seem easier to pick out of the mix, more defined overall.
Really hard to describe adequately but a definite improvement all round, and this is brand new out of the box, 1 hour play time.
Ok, set, go.........
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Timely tip: For anyone with Graphene contact enhancer, I still can’t bring myself to say Total Contact, whoops!, and ANY fuse, including a stock fuse, that is NOT an SR Black or Blue Fuse, paint the middle circumference of the fuse body with a thin layer of product, using care not to paint near the fuse caps, obviously, since the product is conductive. You do not have to remove the fuse, as least I don’t think you do. If you haven’t done the fuse caps, now is the time.
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Actually very ironic
On the flight back home from Orange County I was reading about the origin of the term "snake oil".
Interesting read if nothing else.... |
It recently occured to me that where there's snake oil, there's bound to be traces of venom. |
👨🚀
gdhal
geoffkait - ....I get the feeling there’s a vacation in your future. 🏄♂️
Does this me you will take me up on the Amy > Bob opportunity? 🤑
>>>>Congrats on the almost complete sentence, spaceman.
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Jay23
I think for the size of the enthusiast audio market there exists a decent supply of power conditioners to hand.
I use Corepowertech Equicore1800 myself, and I know a few more here do as well.
But this IS a SR Blue fuse thread after all.
Plenty of other threads on power conditioners..... |
