The Radio Shack thing is getting stale Ebm. |
How about "jump on Best Buy before they are gone"?
Radio Shack had a few gem audio products over teh years by most standards. That was a long time ago though. Still sad to see RS finally succumb to the times. If not for radio Shack and Lafayette as a kid, I don't know if I would have ever become as interested in this stuff. My first real johb was At Lafayette back in high school. I was on cloud nine. Then Radio Shack for a few years, before going to Grad school and eventually landing a real job. Those were good times! |
MagicoM series or new Magico Q7 better than the Shack. |
gato fm6 from Denmark. Giant killer. I heard Wilsons at 4 times the price
Then these. I had them shipped from Denmark through a dealer in the UK I was sold on them quick. Best treble ever. Shimmery metal vapor is what I call it. Open midrange and deep tight bass. |
There are a lot of speakers that could be placed in this category. I have really been enjoying The Audio Note AN-E lately. They have very organic musical sound , especially with tube amps |
for fun and curiosity, i wrote a script to parse every post in this thread and the "speakers to hold on to for life" thread and then compare it to a list of brands i put together (sorry if i missed any important ones) to see how many times each brand was mentioned
obviously, there are a lot of flaws with such a method (same person mentioning the brand more than once, mentioning the brand negatively, brands that aren't as well known or mass produced, etc) and i'm not going to go as far as to run sentiment analysis on the output, but i did a few spot checks and i think it gives a pretty good idea of general audiogon thoughts on speaker brands
sorted by # of times mentioned, descending:
brand, # of times mentioned
magnepan|magneplanar|maggie|magnapan 148
wilson 145
b&w|bowers 139
quad 136
atc 128
apogee 103
proac 102
vandersteen 97
martin logan 84
sonus faber 71
klipsch 65
jbl 62
dynaudio 61
thiel 51
kef 51
avalon 49
focal 42
revel 41
schweikert 37
tidal 36
tannoy 32
merlin 28
altec 28
coincident 27
harbeth 26
paradigm 25
totem 20
linn 19
hale 19
aerial 19
tyler 18
shadorne 18
dali 17
snell 15
gallo 12
shahinian 8
devore 6
wharfedale 5
amphion 3
odyssey 1
gemme 1 |
I'm a super music lover, although I love all kinds of music no matter what it is, I can only afford a pair of Wharfedale Denton 80th Anniversary Limited Edition in walnut color and gorgeous retro look, the cabinet, the grill, and the bookshelf size just matter to me very much, and the sound definitely enough musical for me, though certainly it has limitations like dynamic and cannot go extreme loud without distortions, but it relieve me with less fatigue laid back sound. In near future, I'll look for near to full range bookshelf speakers, still I prefer something small and sound elegantly, my ultimate aim is to hear no distortions when volume reach the level my ears cannot take it, that's the next limit I need to aim for.
By the way, anybody own the Wharfedale Airdale Classic Heritage? Any thoughs on how it sound like? I think my ultimate dream is to own a pair of those, sitting in my room and accompany me till the end of my life! |
Just think, those Dentons are better speakers than 90% of people had 20-30 years ago !
But if you REALLY love music you better take it easy on the
volume or you won't be hearing much at the end of your life . |
Schubert: Thanks for the advice, usually I will stay away from the speakers when crank volume to some extreme level, haha just to feel the awesome sonic energy. I think there are really a lot speakers that got extreme low distortions, unfortunately comes at high price, space, and complicated setup. I'm still looking for a pair of small and compact near full range bookshelf speakers...journey started all over again... |
Best speaker Paradigm 75 F or the B&W 686 S-2 with Raven tube Electronics and Furtech cables |
Just hear the Vandersteen 7 mk I with AR 9 DAC, music server driven by Ayre Ref Twenty electronics connected with highend AQ cables with NO power conditioner etc... What a sound. It was excellent in the morning and come late afternoon it was cooking. As good as it sounded, it was off by 2" as someone had messed with them. I can't wait to get back to hear them set up properly. My Treo's are now being run by the Ayre AX5/Twenty and it's a new speaker. These things just keep getting better and better with every upgrade. Heck, the new SR Powercell 10 Tesla has take it all to a new level too. I can't wait to fix up my room so it sounds even better. |
Easy... The OMA Imperia system driven by a few precious watts. By far the most effortlessly musical reproduction of sound these ears have yet experienced. Now I just have to figure out how to afford a pair. |
I was reading, someone had the Infinity IRS as front speakers, and the IRS Beta as surrounds, with, I think, IRS Gamma as the center. I think this is a bit crazy.
First, there are more practical and perhaps better sounding speakers available today, and, secondly, for HT, this offers little.
For HT, I like B&W speakers, like the 804 in front and I would think the less costly CDM 7NT is probably a good choice. The CDM NT for center would be nice.
I like Martin Logan, they are a bit harder to set up well, and one has to like electrostatic speakers. The ML Montis, or Ethos and the Motif center are very good; the Scripts, or EFX make nice back speakers.
If you are on a budget, the ElectroMotion ESL mixed with the Motion series will do well.
I would say, for around ten grand, the Martin Logan Montis is my favorite. |
Devialet Sivler Phantoms is getting there... |
Vandersteen 7 at Richards house..
My Mk II arrive next week
Blessed to have them..expect them to be last I own... |
Tom, that's awesome. Do you own the NEW amps for them? I've now heard those with many of the top name amps out there and they always sound great. I LOVE Richards amps on them as well as the Ayre Ref/20's. Which AQ cable are you running with them? |
Good put word in for TSW Apogee Diva's with bat Rex mono blocks.great sound stage width and Depth just right amount decay on strings and piano. |
As I mentioned before, the Infinity IRS-V's are the best sounding speakers i've ever heard, though in many ways my current Magico S5's are better. The S5's don't have the dynamic headroom of the Infinity's, nor the 3d imaging or off-axis performance...however they are more resolving of inner detail from the low bass region to lower mids, they have more texture and body the IRS & more seamless and coherent. There is also a greater quality to the sound which is to be expected given the S5's superior drivers, crossover, cabinet & internal wiring. And the S5 is more room friendly with placement. So it depends on how you define "best". |
As I mentioned before, the Infinity IRS-V's are the best sounding speakers i've ever heard, though in many ways my current Magico S5's are better. The S5's don't have the dynamic headroom of the Infinity's, nor the 3d imaging or off-axis performance, however they are more resolving of inner detail from the low bass region to lower mids, they have more texture and body than the fives & are more seamless and coherent. There is also a greater quality to the sound which is to be expected given the S5's superior drivers, crossover, cabinet & internal wiring. The S5 is also more room friendly in terms of placement. So it depends on how you define "best". |
CT
I have not heard them w new amp...but that is probably the long term plan.
Have an Ayre VX-R non 20..will see how it does..I am confident in my room and habits it will be fine...if I do upgrade will likely top out w that. No upgrade if I go w Richards amp..
Cables are all AQ: Eagle Eye, Niagara, Sky, and Type 6 in a true shotgun bi wire. |
Am I the only person who doesn't "get" Magico speakers. I have heard them in a number of top flight systems, with Dartzeel and Constellation amplification amongst others. Dynamic, neutral, transparent, yes, yes and yes, but just to dry and sterile for my tastes. I am sure it is a defect in my ears and character, not to think Magico are unbeatable, but I suppose it takes all sorts of enthusiasts in our hobby/obsession.
The best I have heard and it suprises me to say so, is the Wilson Alexias. I have never liked Wilson, until I heard them with sympathetic amplification, in the first instance, ARC tube amps. The best though, was the Alexias with D'Agostino pre and Monoblocks, just magical. In fact I couldn't really find any fault in the system, except the insane cost. Almost as good at a mad, rather than insane costs, was the same room and speakers with the Dartzeel integrated amp |
David, i'm not sure which Magico speakers you've heard, but from your description it sounds like you've heard Q series speakers which do lean in that direction, and with poor amp choices for synergy imho. The S series are warmer and more full bodied sounding speakers. They should still be matched with warm, tube-like ss amps or powerful tube amps for best synergy, but because the S5's for example are warmer sounding than the Q series, Vitus Signature series (ss) amps a perfect match imho. With that said, Magico are not unbeatable because audio is completely subjective. We all (literally) hear things differently, so the old adage "One man's trash is another man's treasure" holds true.
As an example, I heard the Alexia's in a treated listening room with top range ARC amps and was underwhelmed. The bass was slow and flabby, they were not as coherent or well balanced as S5, and are not as warm, full bodied or intimate sounding. Sound stage depth was good though. The Alexia's have airy mids and highs, though I didn't equate that with greater accuracy. The S5s are definitely more accurate and have better image specificity. Another punter might walk out of the same room with a completely different view. Incidentally, I heard the Alexia's with D'agostino mono's & a full DCS Vivaldi stack. It was a better demo, but the sound was fatiguing and walked out of that room after 20 minutes. |
Tom, the Twenty upgrades are the most important upgrades in a component that I've ever heard and I am close with two dealers who have said the same. Many of us feel this is the best set of amps that we've ever heard. I haven't heard the newest production example of Richard's amp, but I'd love to hear them on the MKII's with the Ayre ref/20 pre. The more high end speakers I listen to in the right surroundings (non show), the more I appreciate a properly set up pair of 7's. There are some great speakers out there right now, but most leave me cold after listening. Not all, but most. |
I own the Q5's and Vitus combination. I have no idea what you guys are talking about. I was not a Magico fan until the Q5's. I have owned much more expensive speaks. Many considered to be the best money could buy. I will stick with the Q5's. They are a bargain. Especially second hand.
I'm just sayin ✌️ |
David12
I happen to agree with you. I've heard 3 different sets of Magico at 3 different shows---all set up by Alon Wolf. I have found Magico to be accurate reproducers of sound with a touch of sterility that keeps them from drawing me in.
My feeling in a Magico room is: These speakers are very good, but there are lots of very good speakers---- why all the fuss?
Disclaimer---I have not heard the S series. |
@Whatthe, congrats on your Q5's! If you're running the big SS-102 or SM-102's your Q5's will have enough juice to properly control them. Because the Q5's are more neutral, I would (personally) lean toward the SS-102 which sounds a bit warmer than the mono's, but that's a matter of personal taste.
In general, Vitus pairs extremely well with Magico & is one of the few amps which makes the Q series sing. I've also heard good things about The Gryphon, Pass XS series & CJ Art/Gat amps. |
Gpgr, I'm not surprised by your comments as you have a long history on this forum of being firmly in the Wilson camp and vocal in your commentary about Magico. In regard to shows, they are poor litmus tests for any loudspeaker, so i'm surprised you're relying on notoriously poor show conditions to form a view. The S series have a warmer, fuller and more relaxed sound which to my ears sound well balanced and coherent. Atleast paired with Vitus Sig series, they sound anything but sterile. I do agree with you however that audio is subjective. |
Here's the thing, shows suck. You are right there are many "very good" speakers. Just that the Q5's are not just very good speakers. I love that critique "sterile". It's one of those phrases thrown at anything to attempt to convince others of an items inadequacy. I don't me to be rude. I do not know any of you but you're views are of no real value here if shows are you point of reference! Your the ones missing out.
I'm just say'in ✌️ |
Whatthe, no one is denying your right to enjoy Magico speakers, we just reserve the right to disagree. The speakers are not for us, that is all. Ours is a broad church which should allow many opinions. "Sterile" is a word I would use, in the context of Magico Speakers and it means different things to different people. To me, it means the sound may have many attributes, but creating the impression of live music, isn't one. I would add other well received and popular "High End Brands", Focal and B and W come to mind.
You criticise us for making a judgement based on shows and I agree, it is not ideal. The rooms are poor and there is insufficient time for a system to settle in. I look at it the other way, if a system, piece of equipment sounds good in show conditions, then it must be pretty good. Another point, what is the alternative to a show? A fellow enthusiasts home system would be ideal, if you can find one. The alternative is a dealer and I think dealers are in enough trouble without me wasting their time listening to speakers I don't like and can't afford anyway. I will not take a dealers time, where I have no intention to buy. |
David12, Whatthe is not criticizing your choice of words or your entitlement to prefer other loudspeakers over Magico, only the fact that you have formed a view based on 3 auditions in notoriously poor show conditions. Whatthe and I actually own Magico speakers and have spent years optimizing them, so we can offer an informed opinion, whereas to be honest you seem to be speaking from a position of ignorance. All I'm saying is your comments should be less effusive given your limited experience with those speakers. |
So because you can't afford them "sterile"! You don't get them, "sterile"! Like my mother use to say, "if you don't have a well informed opinion, just say nothing!"
I'm just say'in ✌️ |
When a respected long time forum member states his opinion, espescially when that opinion is based upon multiple listening sessions, that opinion should be respected. You do not have to agree, but you should respect. |
I think you ignore my point about how one can audition speakers, if not at a show. The gold standard is a prolonged audition at home, in your own system or a friends system, which is in a settled state. I repeat, that I will not take a dealer's time auditioning a speaker, just to confirm, it is not for me, and, or I can not afford it.
If one follows your stricture about who may comment on a speaker, then only owners are likely to qualify and reports will be universally positive.
Please also note, that I accept your description of the limitations of show auditions. However that is likely to be the only way all of us will ever hear many components on the market. I am sure most of us use a show as a way of winnowing out large numbers of possible choices, for a next purchase. It is imperfect, but the only practical way open to us.
Finally, please note I did not "rubbish" magico speakers or dismiss users as misguided or worse. I merely pointed out, that in my experience, limited as I admit that is, they were not for me. |
So because you can't afford them "sterile"! You don't get them, "sterile"! Like my mother use to say, "if you don't have a well informed opinion, just say nothing!"
I'm just say'in ✌️ |
@Whatthe, your comment is fair enough. I just made the point that I think if you're relying on sub-par setups at a show to form a view about a loudspeaker, you're likely to be misguided.
@David12, I understand your constraints given you've got limited opportunities to hear Magico and other speakers in well sorted rooms. Fyi, I wasn't suggesting you can't or shouldn't proffer an opinion on those speakers unless you'd heard them outside show conditions. I just suggested that you should not be so effusive in your comments if you're relying on auditions at shows and should keep an open mind.
Magico speakers are transparent to source, linear and generally neutral in tonal balance, so they demand an owner take care in matching upstream gear. The old saying "rubbish in, rubbish out" applies. Thus when 'philes post descriptions like "lean", "cold", "dry", "sterile"..it is often the upstream gear which is to blame. You could say they are honest, though as I said the S series are warmer, fully bodied & have a more relaxed presentation than the Q series. |
Whatthe, why are you being deliberately obtuse? I did not say the speakers were sterile because I could not afford them, but because I found them "sterile".
I have to repeat again, I am not aware of a qualifying number of hours of auditioning, required before one can offer an opinion. Please note, opinion of what I heard listening to the speakers. I did not dismiss them out of hand , as others would. |
David12, do you have any suggestions for Alon Wolf to make Magico speakers sound less "sterile"? |
"The alternative is a dealer and I think dealers are in enough trouble without me wasting their time listening to speakers I don't like and can't afford anyway. I will not take a dealers time, where I have no intention to buy" that is what you said. Why bother, don't like'm, ain't buy'in and can't afford them. It's as if you need to knock Magico to justifie not being able to buy them. I have had enough of this and your obvious lack of commitment to listen before giving a view. Honestly, I real don't care. This is what these boards are now, uninformed opinions! Keep posting them.
I'm just say'in ✌️ |
To add some balance to the conversation about Magico. I've heard both the S1 and S3 at a dealer's. The S1 system sounded very good indeed! The S3 less so but I WOULDN'T necessarily blame the speaker. This speaker line seems to draw a lot of controversy and I can understand why having listened to them. I find them to be VERY accurate and it would seem that to optimize their performance one is going to have to spend time system matching. In the case of the S3 system they were in a well designed room but I thought it was less the speaker than something else in the set-up that I just couldn't put my finger on. Pretty much all of us agreed on this point but as to what it was, less agreement but we all agreed, not the speaker. I haven't heard any of the other Magicos. I can see where these speakers would have broad appeal in the right set-up. Both set-ups btw, were with Ayre electronics, no problem there for sure but I would like to hear with a sufficiently powerful tube amplifier. |
Magico is a good product if you seek ultimate build quality and good sound. But you will pay for it. Also for teh gear to drive them well and make the investment pay. ANother investment there. The question then becomes can you get essentially the same sound for less? that will depend but I suspect it is possible.
Typical high end audio questions and scenarios. It all depends on ones budget and know how in putting an end to end system that meets your needs together. No speakers alone will do it, though some might more so than others. |
The magicos I have heard set up well are in the top tier of systems I have heard in regards to overall sound quality. The down side is that you will pay a lot to get it. |
I heard a stereo back in the 80's, it consisted of all Cello (made by mark levenson) equipment and 2 huge Cello speakers with granite stands. It pumped out over 4,000 watts a side. Have not seen or heard anything like that since. |
What amps were the Cello speakers using? Even his biggest amps didn't have anything close to that power output, and the biggest speakers he made were not that inefficient. |
Mapman, you pretty much nailed it in your description of Magico's latest generation of speakers. Their transparency, resolution & linearity (accuracy) demand much of their owner as their 'honesty' means they will faithfully pass on shortcomings in upstream electronics and wire. And their potential means you're really short-changing yourself if you don't explore their potential with well-matched high end amps, front end, cables and isolation of equal caliber. And like a race car, synergy is very important to get the best out of these loudspeakers. If you accept that, they are wonderful transducers. |
Magico, like any other speaker, has their ardent followers. They do make highly accurate speaker, however I have never been able to warm up to them just like many other folks. I need to be emotionally attached to my music and there are very few for me that can do that. I'm not talking about euphonic distortion either as that grates on my from the first note.
Most of the speakers that have done it for me in all price classes have been first order crossovers and phase/time aligned speakers. They are accurate, clean, but most get the the soul of the music for ME. Folks don't need to agree with me and I'm not putting down anyone else's speakers as we all hear and want different things. I had listened to thousands of speakers that have been set up correctly and used with outstanding electronics. Many of them in the 100k plus range, but very few have grabbed me and made me sit and listen all day. There have been a few recently that I have really loved and only a couple haven't been first order crossovers, but they have all been time and phase correct.
I agree with all of you who say you can't tell much at a show. I can tell if the bones are there, but only if I listen in the proper seat with tweeters at the right level. It's not fair to any manufacturer to have posters go to shows and listen standing up or in the doorway or the back of the room and then go on boards and trash their products or even say anything about them. If a product gets best in show, there usually is a reason for it and the reviewers get to hear them without folks in the room and set up their best (or as best you can in a hotel room or two). This has been one of my pet peeves for years. As most know, I now have switched over to Vandersteen speakers as they move me. The whole line does at every price point. I wasn't even going to give them a sniff until a dealer in NJ made me listen to them even though I went into his store to purchase another line of speakers he carries. I heard both and also a third companies speakers. Once I heard the Vandy's, I was in heaven. I was moved, but the soundstage was better than my Proac's as was the detail and everything else I loved listening to. The all Tidal system is pretty darn great too. Very expensive, but honest in it's presentation and it's sold by a wonderful man in PA who loves his music and does a great job.
I remember driving down to New Haven, CT (20 minutes away) and hearing the first set up of the Cello gear at the factory (my ex was one of Mark's attorney's as I got to hear the gear when Tom was demoing it for a few before release). It was so different from anything else I had heard from anyone. I really liked it a lot back in the day. Mark never designed things, but he was such a master salesman. Temperamental to say the least, but he knew how to move gear. |
Ctsooner, I have a solution to your problem with Magico speakers...try auditioning them with more emotional upstream gear like CJ Art/Gat or Vitus Sig Series and KS Emotion/Elation or Siltech Royal Sig series cables ;). Btw, the Magico S5's are both time and phase coherent according to Magico. And to my ears they are very coherent, well balanced and non-fatiguing which suggests their claim is true.
I agree 100% with your comments about audiophiles relying on notoriously sub-optimal show conditions to form a view about loudspeakers. That's why I am reserving my judgment on the Vandy 7's as I haven't heard them in a dedicated room, though anecdotally they can have boomy bass and an issue with sound stage height (depending on the room). Whilst the Vandys are known to have a narrow sweet spot (not that that's necessarily a bad thing. It depends on how you listen). My point being, with work and perseverance it is possible to make the 7's sound wonderful...in the same way as the S5's ;). |
Mattmiller, I had all Cello components back then but not speakers. I agree with Roxy54, that my Cello amps nothing near that wattage. It was outstanding but the equalizer and fiddling with it drove me crazy. I put it all up for sale and had five buyers in 15 minutes. I sold it to the firstguy. |
Tbg,
Weren't the speakers called Grand Stradivari? The amps were called Performance I think, but there were bigger and smaller ones. |
Cello's Performance mono amps (sometimes called the Red Eyes because of their red light in the front panel) put out 350 watts, I believe. Perhaps Mattmiller heard a system using multiple Performance amps; I seem to recall hearing something like that at Gene Pope's studio (Pope Music, which made some excellent CDs) in northern NJ years ago at an NJAS meeting. |
Bodhi, I heard them with tube gear at Overture. My buddy has the Q5's and uses all AR Ref gear and I just haven't connected to them. That's just me. I don't connect with most speakers out there. I listen for different things than many do. I have a local dealer who was carrying them years ago when they first started out and I didn't get them back then either, but again, I have plenty of friends who swear by them. That's nothing negative against them at all, just me. It's a nice looking and well built speaker. There were many parts of them that I liked a lot, but I had no connection and haven't with any of their models I've heard at dealers like Overture as well as friends houses over the years. Please don't take my post as a negative against Magico. They are highly accurate and I have found that's the part that most of the phase coherent speakers all seem to have. I have sat and listened to the highest end Wilson speakers over the years and I don't get them either, however they are very popular with many audiophiles. Nothing against them, just not for me.
Many don't get the Vandersteen line either and that's all good too. Those of us who do love them, seem to hear the same things. I like to sit and get moved. My Ayre Twenty gear is neither tubed nor SS in sound. To me (and many other's) they sound correct. I love many tube electronics and have owned CJ, AR, CAT, Quick over the years and have even wanted Jadis for the longest time, but now I only have SS other than my Aesthetix Rhea phono stage and eventually I"ll sell that and get a balanced SS phono pre as I run only balanced into my amps.
That's what makes audio so much fun. |
