I've never heard speakers over 50k that sounded that much better than many under that price point. WIsh I had a dealer that had some of the esoteric speakers on display locally. |
With all ayre and it wasn't top of line. Just so musical. I have heard many of the esoteric stuff over the years and many are very revealing etc but I want honest and musical. I listen to live music all the Time and want to hear it the way it sounds at a venue. I think too often we get wrapped up in the equipment and not the music. I've been a tube guy most of my audio life and that's since I was 11 or so. I'm now 53 and the hearing is still good. I'm hoping to get to audio connection to meet Richard Vandersteen and hear his new amp with the 7's. I have a feeling it will be quite the treat. I'm about to purchase the Treo's as I was blown away by them. Naturally relaxed but still detailed and not rolled off. I can't afford more bass as that's where so much of all the extra dollars go for in speakers. |
Redmor, it's funny how that works isn't it? We all have similar stories. Mine were Klipshorns with Phase Linear amps as well as Crown amps. I think the turntable was top of the line Garrard (in 72/3). I was blown away and said that when I can buy the Klipshorns I'll go that route. When the time came to upgrade, I ended pu with the Polk 10's (when Sandy was there) with Moscode/CJ amplification. Looking back, it all sucked, but it was MINE and I felt that I was learning. I heard the original Vandy 2's at Sound Unlimited in SD where I was stationed. They became my dealer when I was there and had money. I met Richard Vandersteen while there as he was down just showing the speakers off with Sota TT. I don't remember the amplification, but it was tubed gear I think. I think it was all Kimber Kable (the brown and black stuff that I also ended up getting with my new amplification.
I was at Singer's in NYC many times along with other NYC stores and have heard the TOL Wilson's (actually at many stores around the country). I just have never been impressed. Too analytical for me. It's interesting as we all have different ears but think that what we like is best for all. Not so and that's why there are so many choices. |
The more I start listening to higher end systems again, I find that it's most important to listen to any speaker in a true system that is put together for that particular speaker. I've heard some great ones sound poorly and visa versa. |
the 80k Rockports are pretty amazing too. Forget the name, but I've heard them really sing with some incredible amplification and vinyl. |
I have loved teh Maggies for years. they are big (if you want full sound) and don't fit everyone's room, but if you can fit them, they sound awesome. I wouldn't buy them for personal reasons, not based on their sound or construction. I nearly did years ago, but instead went with a dynamic Proac. I think there are a few special speakers in various price categories that exceed what the competition can do and two Maggies fit that bill for me as do a couple of the Vandy speakers. Personally, I've been concerned with too many speaker companies who haven't been around long. Speakers will eventually breakdown and need to be fixed, refoamed or even need new drivers and I've been burned in the past by companies with strong designs that sound awesome for the money, but are not in business when I needed help and they became a scrap pile waste for the most part. I think more audiophiles who are my age or older have stuck with the tried and true companies for this reason.
One of the best systems I've ever heard was the largest Maggies with AR ref gear all the way around and MIT cabling. Crazy good, but after hearing the Vandy 5 and 7's, I'd stick with them as I think they get the music even more 'right' from top to bottom. Panel speakers seem to add something the more I listen to them. Maybe it's the extra energy they send out on the back wave that isn't dissipated. I think that's why I love the Vandy's and really liked the Legacy Aeris's I heard. We all heard different things and that's why they make so many speakers. Fun hobby and it's nice to see folks passionate about their gear. |
Funny as I just hooked up my new/used Ayre AX7e integrated with my Proac Supertowers and WOW what a difference. I'm still using the 'tubed' MIT CVTerminator (made for tubed gear). Talk about a HUGE difference. The speakers sound warm and inviting. Huge soundstage pin point imaging. Air around every note and there is a wall of music with depth and even some height, lol. I'm loving them again. I still want the Vandy Treo's, but until I can sell off everything else, I have a great system in place that is musical. I"m hearing things I haven't heard since my Quickie pre/silver mono's were hooked up. |
No, the ProAc's are one of the three pair of Proac's I'm selling as I"m going to buy the Treo's. I just didn't realize how good these Proacs are. The dealer installed new drivers and made some upgrades he said and right afterwards I had to switch out to a small NAD integrated as my wife wanted remote control. This is why I'm selling my Quicksilver pre and amps too. I have just decided to sell off everything and start over. |
and at the end of the day it really is all about what you hear regardless of measuring. I fell in love with soundstaging and imaging. That was due to the proacs being more involving that way than other speakers I heard. I've since realized that my Proacs are even better than I tought when I got the new Ayre amp set up to it. I could keep it forever, but I like the Vandy sound better right now. Some wouldn't agree adn would rather hear Proacs. I can live with either and love them. Threre are a ton of speakers I coudl love I guess. Most would feel the same way if they heard them set up properly. |
My buddy years back has the Infinity with EMIT's etc...I forget the model, but they sounded great if run with tube gear, but he had a Yamaha receiver that he used and I couldn't listen to them. I never gave Infinity or Genesis a listen, even when I had chances as I always thought of them as 'just big speakers'. It's taken me a long time to be open eared and listen to anything to see what they are made of. Right now, I'm on the Vandy bandwagon as i have yet to hear anything close to them that has the emotion to go along with everything else I want a speaker to do. I'm in the 7k and under range for the most part. I have heard in passing many of the speakers talked about in this thread and most are very good, however they all seem to do a few things great and a few things not so great. Again, we all know it comes down to listening, but it's fun listening to see where the designers made their compromises. Even the over 20k speakers I'm listening to have plenty of compromises. Some just seem to be a big waste of money as they are just expensive and sound worse to my ears, than sub 20k speakers.
I have listened to the Thiels again as I have never liked them. I didn't like the electronics I heard them with, but I'm going to take my own Ayre gear with AQ cabling to see if they sound as great as everyone says they do. I also heard the Focal Electra line (1038 BE) and they sounded ok played on new Krell gear, but I still didn't think they were better than the Vandy Treo's I've been listening to let alone the Quattros that are in their price range. What is it that the Focals or Thiels do for you folks that the Vandy doesn't? Just curious to hear what I'm missing in all of this. thanks. |
I have heard so many of these speakers since I to am changing and updating my system and I hope you listen to the Vandy's in your price range. I literally was in shock at how good they are and what they do. Just not like the older ones that I didn't really like at all (I was/am a Proac guy). I like the new (not the older) Legacy speakers too. They will give a bunch of other speakers a run for their money. To me the lower priced Vandy Quattro's beat out the Legacy though. Any speaker that sounds great with all vocals and piano using the neutral AQ cables must be doing it right. I haven't heard the Grand References though, but have liked some of the other NOLA speakers I've heard in the past. Lot's of choices that's for sure. |
I've never even seen a pair in person. I've only seen pics in magazines. Have you ever heard the new Vandy CT line? When I said best I've heard, I should have noted that. I like how you describe the Montana's though as to me, if you hear the speaker or listen 'critically' for more than a song or two, then to me, it's not a speaker I can live with. Honestly, most of the special tweeters I've heard do not mesh well with the rest of the speaker. All too often the highs are tipped a bit and too fast for the mids and way too fast for the bass. Musical is something that is lacking in many speakers these days. They work so hard to get the detail, that they forget the natural sound you hear at a live event. Detail is of course a major player, but I rarely hear a system that can play piano properly or even cymbals. Basic percussion is often left lagging behind also. JMHO....I'd love to check out the montana's sometime if I see them. Thanks. |
YOu have to try the Vandy CT line of speakers Sirix. Are you near NJ? |
Lab, I think most of us realize how important everything is. I have disliked Vandy's in the past and went with Proac. It was totall about set up and gear. That's how owners can sell gear. I've had a few threads going or posting about the room and system approach. Going through that on the SKY cable thread. I think this thread is all about the best you've heard, not the best speaker. Two different things. What's wrong with folks adding their Twitter-level two cents? It's an opinion board right? Audio is only about opinion. Any of us who are serious about this and have been in it for over 40 years fully get that the best we've heard has also sounded like crap too. I personally dislike all Wilson speakers I've heard. I've heard them with Spectral, Krell, Levinson, Jadis, Ayre, Quicks and plenty of other electronics, front ends and if so many rooms that were 'set up' to be great rooms. They just don't do it for me and never have. That said, there are thousands of audiophile who have heard them and loved them. Marketing plays a huge role in things too as we are often told what to and not to listen for. Room power is also important right? yes, we all are having fun sharing and that's why this thread is so old. |
Went to listen in DC this week to a bunch of new stuff for me. Some I've heard in the past and others....not at all. Quick hits:
Proac D30R is one of the first ribbons I've heard done correctly. What a sweet sounding and dynamic speaker. It is a really nice sounding speakers and for my ear was much nicer than the Harbeths that many are touting on the boards and in reviews. I also liked the Audio Note speakers a ton. As basic as you can get, but wow were they good. They were being run by an AN single ended amp and AN preamp. It was digital too, but it did everything right. First time I've heard single ended done that well and I was shocked. Very dynamic and musical. The detail was there too and it was against the more expensive Harbeths and it wasn't a race. The Proacs were run by tube gear too and on the imported Ayre turntable, new Ortifon arm/MC cart.
Heard the Quattro CT's in a different room and system than I usually hear them in and they shined too. They really are that special. I heard them with a Rega 6/Rega upgraded cart as well as the Linn TT. The Linn was better for pace and rhythm, but it's a bitch to set up and keep set up. most of the TT guys I speak with don't like the suspended tables much. They feel they are a pain. The digital stuff I've been hearing is good, but the second you put the TT in the systems you just relax and listen. Strange, but so true. I do like the music server idea though as it's just a one box easy solution, but right now digital is the last thing on my mind as they need to refine it and figure out what direction they will go for the next 10 years. Hi rez does sound awfully good in a great system, but I'm hoping that soon there will be a simple streaming site where you pay your 10 a month and have nearly any song you want in hi res.
Sorry to go on about the components, but they make as big a difference in what the speakers sound like. So far I feel that the best speakers I'm hearing these days are all different sounding and need different systems. Most folks aren't able to go more than say 15k for speakers so I'll twist the subject of best to best for the money:
Vandersteen Treo's
Vandersteen Quatro's
Proac D series are all great speakers, but the D 30R is their best under 8k I think it is
Audio Note (must match with other AN components like the Otto integrated with phono)
The Spendor, Harbeths and many others that folks are raving about are excellent speakers also. Everyone's ear is so different, but for a cottage industry there are so many wonderful choices out there. I've run into many speakers that I couldn't listen to for more than a song without my ears hurting. Too many of the speakers that are touted as detailed and revealing, just sound horrid to my and that's even with great tube gear with analog. JMHO |
I have finally heard a ribbon that I liked. Proac D30's got it right and for the price are on the must audition list. Tubes did them right ;)...Ayre TT, Ortofon arm and cart too. Any vinyl will do most systems right ;).
I heard top Audio Note speakers that I loved also. I didn't like the Spendor, Harbeth or Maggies (just for my ear) on this past trip and the Focals were missing something and I don't know what it is. I think the mids just didn't do it for me and all the ones I heard were driven with top gear and set up their best. Magico blew me out of the water, but I'd like to hear them vs the Vandy's. For the cost, I think the Vandy's will win out, but Magico's really were special.
I heard the Proacs sound different in different rooms. Very different. Does that mean they are going to show up anything in the system? I kind of think that's the case, but they are room dependent. Every speaker I've heard has sounded different in different rooms with the same components. I've been able to hear this a few times. I find it interesting that I've yet to find a speaker that is worth 50k vs one half that price. Yes the sound is better, but I can't afford the 25k speakers, so for me there is fulcrum point if you would. |
Larry, I think you are right. I was blown away by the Proacs and I've been a Proac guy for years and years, but they haven't sounded like that. With the right components, I think they can bloom, but they do need some power. I heard them with 50watt tube stuff and they were plenty loud, but I could tell there was more to them than that. |
I'm still a Vandersteen fan after hearing so many different speakers over the last couple of weeks. Honesty, up and down the line their dynamics are very real as is their staging and imaging. I just don't fully get that response from any of the other speakers I've heard. I think that most folks just love that 'open, detailed, wide staging' etc...but even the Proacs are not emotional like I want at this point. The Audio Note stuff is great and very dynamic, but in the end there was just a little something missing. I don't even know what it is, but when I first started to listen years ago, single ended didn't do it for me either. At first they were so impressive, but on every day music they didn't fully do it. I think it would cost a ton more than other systems I'm looking at to get the best sound from them. |
I just found a new audio store that carries those along with Audio Note stuff that's near my house. I had never heard of them. I may check them out as I always like to hear what's out there even though I love what I have coming my way this next week. Thanks for sharing. I've heard great things about the Orfeo Supremes and look forward to hearing them. |
I always liked stats and even purchased Stax Lambda's that I'm selling, however recently I've heard a ton of stats as I am getting a new system and for me, I've yet to hear one I like. No matter the amp, they just don't do it for me. They seems to float the images and have a bit of overhang (every company I've heard). On most occasions, I have to stop listening after only a few songs as the highs are just too much for me.
I understand why folks love these speakers though. It's just not MY type of sound. That's the neat thing about high end audio. there are a ton of choices as we all hear differently and our rooms are all different etc...
What do you like best about the stats? Do you need or use subs with them to get fuller range? |
Still Vandy 7. I have listened to some fun speakers over the last month. Many are over 20k, but few did more than move more air in the room. |
Mapman, so true. There are a few I've heard recently that I could listen to for hours on end and they aren't always theMOST revealing or the best bass or the best staging, imaging etc... If you hear live music you really don't hear imaging per say. I had this conversation two days ago with a distributor of a speaker line and he said it best....the 3D staging and imaging that we talk about and want isn't real sound. It's not what you year live, but live, you SEE in 3D and it takes it's place. That's kind of the way I'm starting to think of high end audio. |
I have enjoyed many of these speakers folks are talking about. I heard the Vandersteen 7's again yesterday driven by Audio Research 10k stereo amp and their matching preamp. Nothing special for that price range. It was through the Romulus CD players (best digital I've ever heard) and I was in shock as to how good it was again. I've heard it with the Ayre monos as well as AR ref in the past and each time it just sounded perfect. Lacked nothing. I would love to hear it with the producers of some of the music I was listening to.I'd love to know how close to their original it is because it takes on the sound of everything upstream. I"m pretty familiar with the products I heard and the Vandys were just right scale, pace, tonally etc... They just sounded the way music sounds when you are there. |
Which is what speaker? Do you really think that's the best one you've ever heard? Most of us can't afford the BEST we've ever heard. |
I got to hear those a bunch with all different electronics. The top end for me was hot compared to most of the newer speakers, but in it's day it was very special. Man could those things rock. HUGE and needed a large large space to really open up. Pretty amazing for it's time. |
Those are on my short list of speakers to listen to.. I dont' go off of reviews as my ears must be totally different as I don't often hear what the reviewer hears. I've been around audio long enough to know the dark secrets of the print/electronic media and how reviews are handled. That said, I've heard about Vivid from a friend who heard them at a show in Newport I think it was and he said they were really good and even has some legit bass. When talking about BEST speakers heard there is just so much that goes into it. The most I hear of the esoteric level of speakers, the more I appreciate first order, phase coherent speakers. All too often I hear 'detail' 'sparkle' huge soundstage' 'deep bass', but the problem is ....what did the producer put down on the tracks? Accuracy is only so good. Too many high end speakers go crazy with parts and they don't always fit together as well as some of the lower priced speakers in their lines. They are often times fatiguing or the bass isn't realistic.
I was at a John Legend concert the other night with my daughter. The first thing we both noticed during the warm up act was that the bass was distorted and turned up WAYYYY too much. It was brutal and it sucked. We heard him at the Hollywood Bowl last summer on a college visit and the sound was superb. The LA Philharmonic helped, but even Aerosmith sounded great, but still loud. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but for my money, Richard Vandersteen is still the one to beat. I get to listen to the 7's and 5's at a store in Verona, NJ whenever I'm down there and they just sound 'right'...every time regardless of what front end gear or amps he's using. I've heard the Rockports, top of the line Utopias, Magico's and many of the really smaller companies out there. When you listen live at various venues, the music really isn't quite holographic is it? You SEE where the instruments are and you can hear where they come from, but maybe not as much as we want in our systems. I think we want to HEAR holographic to make up for what we SEE when we are there live....Im not sure, but this thread has made me think about that. There was a person at Goodwin Audio who made that statement to me a while ago and it's stuck with me. Just thought I'd share... |
Completely agree. The way I look at it, most folks choice here was heard at a store or maybe a friends house. To me, that's on the person showing them. Audio is still all about a system and not just a component. I've heard the same speaker sound awesome at one place and like crap elsewhere. Yes, everything in the system matters greatly. Too many don't listen to cables or even amps. |
There are plenty of dynamic driver speakers that deliver realistic soundstage. I personally haven't heard too many ribbons or panels that I can handle the elevated highs on. Again, personal tastes. I have Vandy's that crush the soundstage even better than my older Proacs have done. Large when it was recorded that way and very real. Have you ever heard the Vandy 7's? If not, you should give them a listen as they are some of the best sounds I've heard and I have heard tons of the larger speakers on the market and have for many years now. The Vandy's have sounded better for me than the Rockports I've heard too. Different speakers for different ears. |
Melbguy, great post. Thanks for sharing. I listen to the Magico's a bit more now and have heard a few of their models, but don't remember all the numbers. With my MS, I can't always remember the model names. Some yes, some no. I usually remember the price ranges. I honestly am not sure if I've ever heard them set up properly. I think some dealers just have lines they like, but they don't always go great together. Even at the upper line of components I've seen/heard this at most shops. That's the biggest reason I drive 2 plus hours to support someone. I have plenty of shops near me and they are all very good and have good component, but I've yet to hear them at their best, so I wasn't able to hear what I want out of them, which is music. I want emotion. I recently heard the Genesis 2.2 and didn't love them. They sounded good and all, but the highs were bit too emphasized for MY ear and they weren't the most coherent. That may have been set up, but he said that he FINALLY had them dialed in. They just made everything we listened to sound BIG. Even Jazz at the Pawn Shop sounded like it was in a huge venue and it's a small place kind of like the Blue Note in NYC. That's what I listen for in some of these SUPER SPEAKERS. I honestly haven't liked any of the speakers over 100k that I've heard compared to the same companies speakers under 100k. I haven't heard all by ANY means, but I've been able to hear many within the last year or so. I have some friends who are well off, but not audiophiles and have no idea what they have other than something really expensive and big. I wonder how many of the engineers actually still hear lot's of live music these days. It's nice to have some great choices though. |
What's the price range of your modded VR4's? Your comment on real music is dead on. I've really noticed that recently in my changing out my system this past year. The other artifact is crowd noise in a live recording. It's actually backwards of what you would hear sitting in a crowd. That said, it's what we are conditioned to hear and what we spend forever trying to 'recreate'. Maybe we are all just nuts. lol. |
I can see what you guys all hear in SET gear, but I couldn't live with a main system of SET gear. That's my ear. I am pleased to hear that Audio Connections room at the NYC show in Brooklyn has been talked about as the best sound at the show. They had the Vandy 7's, AR pre amp, Basis tt, Lyra cart, Richards new amps and all top of the line AQ cables.
I have the Vandy Treo's, Basis tt with Benz cart on a Gingko iso custom table Vu built for me, with Ayre electronics and upper line AQ balanced cabling and an 8' run of AQ Castle Rock bi wired. with Heed Quasar phono. John set it all up and it takes a back seat to very few systems. Again, it's all about what else is with your speakers. Systems built for your specific room is important. I've still yet to hear anything close to the Vandy 7's. I've been able to hear most of the speakers in this thread and some are awesome and would make me very happy, but at each price range, I like the Vandy speakers best. The other top speakers I've liked have also been first order covers and time coherent. No smearing that I hear on most other speakers out there regardless of cost. |
It's just a fun thread. Most of us have said we love speakers that we DON'T have. We've all heard THOSE speakers and said, WOW, wish I could afford THOSE.....I've purposely looked for some of the speakers mentioned here. In the end though, I find it interesting to see that some folks have only heard mid fi speakers and some have heard some very high end stuff. it's just kind of interesting seeing where some folks are with their hobby. Again, no right or wrong answers. That's what makes this such a fun thread and why it's been running for so long. |
Funny as stats and panels just have never done if for me. Way too hot when I've heard them and I've heard most of the TOL speakers. They seem to float the soundstage and almost always sound bigger than the actual performance was (yes, I've been in recording studios or recorded live on metal tape and heard the differences). Some folks love that sound, but in real life when you heard music live the panels won't usually sound 'right' for ME...That's just ME and not anyone else, so please don't take it that way. Some speakers are so detailed that they don't sound like live music either as most live music blends and that's what makes it sounds so awesome. We are also tricked by crowd noise as in audio we are the ones sitting on stage, but when you are live you usually are in the audience and hear the crowd noise differently. Just saying... |
Guys, I believe all of you. Years ago I heard some Maggies at my dealer (funny as four of the dealers I've spent a lot of money at have sold them, and they sounded good. They were driven by Krell KSA 250 I think it was. All Krell and top the line MIT cables. I still liked the Proac Response 4's better. I have only recently heard ribbons that I like too. It's just my ear I guess. The new Proacs with ribbons have sounded awesome with top tube gear and top analog and I liked some of the Legacy speakers with ribbons, but hated the model before them. I liked the large Clearwave Speakers I heard too and those are the top of the line RAAL tweeters.
I totally agree with you guys on matching things. It's the same way with my Vandersteen Treo's or my for sale Proac speakers....or anything else out there. I've always realized who important electronics are. Most don't get it. They just think it's the speakers, but everything is so important. The thing is that if I hear something set up at a dealer it should be sounding close to it's best. How can they sell if it isn't? Should it sound better in your home? Hopefully, unless they have special rooms set up etc... Some do and some don't. I was at Audio Connections a few months ago and John had the newer Maggies set up with Ayre gear (the smaller panels) and I was amazed. They really did sound great for their price and size. They had a sub with them and I usually hate subs, but it integrated well. John knows how to set things up and sell them too. That said, as soon as we set up the Vandersteen 2's with the same gear it sounded better to me overall. Just more musical and cleaner. I think sometimes the back wave of the panels somehow smear things for me at times. I'm just very sensitive to something that others aren't. I have found many many speakers that are loved and raved about fatiguing. I'm also sensitive to phase and have found that many folks systems are out of phase and it's an easy fix. Again, there is a reason there are so many choices....I fully respect that others hear things differently than I do and visa versa. That's why I love hearing folks thoughts on components. Thanks. |
I did enjoy the largest Apogees back in the day. My dealer then LOVED them and made sure they had their own room and the highest end ARC ref gear with MIT cables 'tuned' for the system by Bruce Brisson himself. They were pretty darn good from what I remember.
I too loved those Extrema's. I haven't heard the new ones but I don't love the new Sonus speakers. I just loved the sound of their older speakers back in the day and they look was WOW..... |
This is a great thread as you can tell what type of sound people gravitate to. I love that as it's a hobby and there are no absolutes...
I was in Audio Connection in Verona, NJ yesterday. He had Richard Vandersteen in to show off his new amps with his 7's....Jonny as always had a great set up for the carbon Treo's, the 5A carbon and the 7's...Lot's of analog as well as digital. Heard Pono for the first time and WOW did it sound great with an Ayre separates and the Treo's....the 5's with AR ref (ref 75 for the amps) was the best I've ever heard them sound. AQ cabling throughout the store. the 5's BLEW us all away...Yes, THEY were THAT great from top to bottom. I'm in awe as they sounded better in that room with the AR gear than most any other 100k plus speaker I've ever heard. Rockports and others included. The 7's were the fastest speaker I've ever heard. Soundlabs, Quads, Maggies, ribbons anything....they are THAT FAST....most folks didn't 'get' the sound. It's the closest to LIVE that I personally have heard. I think it was almost too fast and perfect for most...It's the first time I've ever heard audio NOT sound HI FI...EVER! Again, most won't get it right away, but when you listen you just hear what you are listening for and it all melds together. You can and will sit of hours on end and listen to anything well recorded. It was an AR ref pre, Romulus, AMG table/arm and Richards amps and speakers the cable was WEL from AQ...if you are near Verona, NJ, just got LISTEN...Bring your own records or digital and LISTEN...You will be lost and the hours will melt away. Not saying they will be your favorite, but they rock and play loudly, but it's all about the total emersion into the sound. |
Siddh, I went with the Treo's. When I update and go separates, I can add the new subs he's working on and my system will slam (when I want it to of course). You can get the new 2's and add the Ayre separates and I promise you that you will get a LOT Of the 7's sound for budget costs. The newer Vandy's have the better drivers, but he just makes changes and rarely puts new numbers on things. I can't wait to hear the 9's rock out with his new amps...That will change the game I think as the people who want real 120db listening (stupid for your ears) will get it. |
Like anything it depends on he model especially since the new company took over. It also depends on room and components. They were known for a rounded or romantic sound. I used to love their old "sound" with audio research amps. |
very cool....do you have pics? How did you get the drivers? |
Labtec, I think most of us who have been around this for years agree with you, however on a thread like this of fun, you typically assume that folks are feeding the top speakers a top signal. I would disagree that a great speaker will sound like the worst with poor quality fed to it. It won't sound it's best, but it can still sound better than a terrible speaker being fed with a great signal. Both would sound poor obviously, but I'll take the speaker as being the most important part of the chain with the font end being second. JMHO |
I personally have loved most any speaker using a carbon fiber variant for the Tweeter and a fiber Mid range. Just very natural and open as heck. FAST is a word that comes to mind. I have heard ceramics sound great too, but not like carbon drivers when utilized properly. |
Tom, the Twenty upgrades are the most important upgrades in a component that I've ever heard and I am close with two dealers who have said the same. Many of us feel this is the best set of amps that we've ever heard. I haven't heard the newest production example of Richard's amp, but I'd love to hear them on the MKII's with the Ayre ref/20 pre. The more high end speakers I listen to in the right surroundings (non show), the more I appreciate a properly set up pair of 7's. There are some great speakers out there right now, but most leave me cold after listening. Not all, but most. |
Tom, that's awesome. Do you own the NEW amps for them? I've now heard those with many of the top name amps out there and they always sound great. I LOVE Richards amps on them as well as the Ayre Ref/20's. Which AQ cable are you running with them? |
Magico, like any other speaker, has their ardent followers. They do make highly accurate speaker, however I have never been able to warm up to them just like many other folks. I need to be emotionally attached to my music and there are very few for me that can do that. I'm not talking about euphonic distortion either as that grates on my from the first note.
Most of the speakers that have done it for me in all price classes have been first order crossovers and phase/time aligned speakers. They are accurate, clean, but most get the the soul of the music for ME. Folks don't need to agree with me and I'm not putting down anyone else's speakers as we all hear and want different things. I had listened to thousands of speakers that have been set up correctly and used with outstanding electronics. Many of them in the 100k plus range, but very few have grabbed me and made me sit and listen all day. There have been a few recently that I have really loved and only a couple haven't been first order crossovers, but they have all been time and phase correct.
I agree with all of you who say you can't tell much at a show. I can tell if the bones are there, but only if I listen in the proper seat with tweeters at the right level. It's not fair to any manufacturer to have posters go to shows and listen standing up or in the doorway or the back of the room and then go on boards and trash their products or even say anything about them. If a product gets best in show, there usually is a reason for it and the reviewers get to hear them without folks in the room and set up their best (or as best you can in a hotel room or two). This has been one of my pet peeves for years. As most know, I now have switched over to Vandersteen speakers as they move me. The whole line does at every price point. I wasn't even going to give them a sniff until a dealer in NJ made me listen to them even though I went into his store to purchase another line of speakers he carries. I heard both and also a third companies speakers. Once I heard the Vandy's, I was in heaven. I was moved, but the soundstage was better than my Proac's as was the detail and everything else I loved listening to. The all Tidal system is pretty darn great too. Very expensive, but honest in it's presentation and it's sold by a wonderful man in PA who loves his music and does a great job.
I remember driving down to New Haven, CT (20 minutes away) and hearing the first set up of the Cello gear at the factory (my ex was one of Mark's attorney's as I got to hear the gear when Tom was demoing it for a few before release). It was so different from anything else I had heard from anyone. I really liked it a lot back in the day. Mark never designed things, but he was such a master salesman. Temperamental to say the least, but he knew how to move gear. |
Thanks Tom, I thought I was the only one on this board who didn't turn over gear monthly, lol. Glad you love them and that they were so easy to set up and enjoy. Have fun with them as I'm sure you will. I'll just read and be jealous, lol...Still hoping and praying I can eventually get the Quatro's.
The thing I love about this thread is how passionate everyone is over their fav speakers. That just shows how differently we all listen and that there is plenty of room for all types, sizes and prices of gear. Personally, I love listening to certain pieces when I read about them on the forums. That way I know which posters have similar likes and dislikes. |
I liked their signature high-end but I didn't love it. When I heard the price I was in shock. |
Of course everything matters. I too have not heard a speaker that I like better than the Vandersteen 7's and I haven't even had a chance to hear the MK2's. I've heard them many times, in many systems in many rooms and they always sound the way I like music to sound...like music. There are a lot of speakers I have loved over the years, but none have moved me AND given me the fabric of the music, detail, pace, rhythem etc... as the Vandersteen. I will never be able to afford them, but I pushed things and got the Treo's.
That takes nothing away from Magico's or Wilsons or Harbeths or....Too many expensive speakers that get great props in the press just haven't moved me and I've heard most in many systems. That doesn't mean that many don't swear by those other speakers or brands. I just wish that more people would listen with products they own or can afford. Too many just buy stuff they read about or hear about in threads on the net (like this one) and make their choices without knowing what else is out there. I'm just back from a few weeks in Japan and I got to hear a ton of gear that I never get to hear in the states due to what I'm living, traveling etc... They certainly are listening differently that I listen, but that's cool too. I did get into portable audio while over there and got a pair of Noble Savants this week. I have yet to hear most of the iem's out there, but from what I did get to hear, I liked the Nobles a whole lot and I'm sure in a year from now I'll have these sold off and be looking for something else. I've already had folks who like JH audio better, give me a hard time. That's what I love about audio, there is always a great debate to be had.
Fun thread still |
Well put Agear. I've been around this hobby since '69 and have found most dealers can't set up a speaker to save their lives and/or a room. Most of the rooms do suck as they have to cram so many speakers in there. That's why I make sure to call ahead whenever I can to get them to set up the system in a room with nothing else when they can. Most can't and I think they lose business from folks who know what they are listening to. |
I just heard the Isis and loved it too. I have listened to the XLF in two different rooms that were all top of the line Boulder and DCS, but they didn't' connect with me. There are a few lines that I really have enjoyed recently. The new Proac line is awesome. Very sweet mids and highs. Not clean like VAndys, but an engaging speaker that I could own and be happy with for years. The Avalon line is great too, but distribution channels have dried up and the company doesn't seem to be what they used to be, so it would scare me off a bit. Dynaudio higher end speakers that I've heard are also pretty amazing. Very musical.
In the end, I just validated the fact that the VAndy line is clean, fast and has highly accurate bass in all their speakers. Those carbon tweeters make such an amazing difference from the mids up (My Treo's are the older ones and I wish I had the CT's, lol). I am able to emotionally connect with VAndys, Proacs, Dynaudio adn even the Rockports. Any speaker needs proper room and set up though. All too often I've been hearing speakers like Magico and Wilson's that I COULD like, but they have sounded so different with the same electronics in different shops or homes. I fully understand why folks love them like I love the other lines. I get it, but they just aren't for me. There are only a couple of higher end speakers I'd purchase if I had the money as my room is tricky. Vandersteen's Treo CT's on up are the way I'd go again. When they are set up with the Ayre Twenty gear or Boulder or Audio Research or Aesthetix (all the electronics I've listened to them with) they just do most everything correctly. I have even listened to the D'agastino line on a couple of speakers and they too sound ok, but I can't see why they cost so much other than an amazing case and his name. They don't open up like the aforementioned amps.
DCS and Empirical Audio have been the best DAC's I've listened to (I own the Empirical Audio OSDE/SE). When listening to the highest of end speakers I have heard amazing differences in DAC's to, but that's for another thread. |
Check them out when you can. They draw you in while still being so honest. Big change in the mk 2 |
