In my opinion, the speaker is by far the most important part of the audio system. After all, it is the only part you hear. OK, the other stuff really matters a lot, but without a great speaker... No go.
I am a bit 'speaker-obsessed' I guess, and now I am wondering: What are the best speakers you have ever heard, and what made them the best?
Sonus Faber Fenice. I heard them only briefly at a dealer playing a large orchestra and chorus. Positive: realism, effortlessness. Negative: limited production and price at about 140k euros. Ask for a pair for Christmas and don't forget a good front end. For the real world: Sonus Faber Guarneri Mementos.
As ridiculous as this may seem, i "heard" the Evolution Acoustics with DArtzeel reference monoblocks which were recorded by Albert Porter at the recent Electronics show...i think he recorded 30 rooms using the same equipment. As crazy as this sounds, the Evolution Acoustics room was the only one where the soundbyte actually sounded like Albert recorded a live event and streamed it over the internet. aside from 2 other presentations, everything else sounded like a stereo in a room.
i would never say i have heard the Evolution Acoustics, but i will say i am intrigued enough based on this one soundbyte to say that it would not surprised me if these speakers ranked up there for me at "top 3-5" based on my readings, speaking to a few folks who own them and also this one soundbyte in comparison to all the other soundbytes of the show. it really sounded like someone streaming music from a concerthall.
how familiar are you with these speakers? would love to get your thoughts in more detail on them!
MY Audio Physic Avanti IIIs. They're substantially improved, with LOTS-better parts in the MR/treble crossover (including LARGE Teflon-film caps in series with the tweeter) and the bass filter removed and replaced by active filtering from a dbx DriveRackPA and a separate pair of Marantz monoamps driving the bass. The MR drivers now have NO hi-pass caps between them and the poweramps, while a much-smaller-than usual coupling cap in the MR/tweeter amps reduces the bass energy to the MR drivers. Excellent Audioquest speakercable is soldered to the x-over boards, and chunks of that AQ speakercable replace the inexpensive stranded cable within the cabinets. An antidiffraction pad by diffractionbegone.com around the tweeter completes the large improvements in the treble.
Best speaker ever? Certainly not. Best I've heard long-term? Absolutely.
See http://jeffreybehr.zenfolio.com/p610729623 for more info. .
The Evolution Acoustics seems like an interesting speaker , i do appreciate the time spent getting the shape of the MTM modules right, most speakers today are done poorly in this regard, the lack of smearing is what most are quite possibly commenting on..
Just one person's experience, i finally traded up my SF Strads for a pair of Wilson X1 Grand Slamms. Stunning beyond all belief. Musical and organic (and this coming from someone who's favorite components include my Zanden DAC and, up until last nite, my SF Stradivaris.)
The set up is soooo incredibly important. 8 hours but after Pedro from Absolute Sounds changed the tweeter resistors and worked with Arif from KJ West One...smokes!...this is the best sound i have had the pleasure to really listen to. i am fortunate thanks to KJ West One to have found a pair in mint condition.
i would not tell anyone else it's the best, or anything silly like that. what i will say is that relative to the SF Strads:
1. effortless, effortless, effortless. one rarely understands this until you "see it" in action. 2. effortless [helps] translate into musicality because the speaker can get out of the way without strain and deliver whatever signal you feed it. 3. once properly dialed in...so critical on a Wilson!...the music flows thru the speakers like they are not there (at least way more than the Strads). Whatever size, volume, soundstage, quartet, a cappella, choral, deep house, rap...small, big, intimate, cavernous. 4. The Strads excel on mellifluous sound...natural and organic. soulful as michael fremer once said. in my system, the Slamms matched and exceeded the Strads even on this. that, i was truly not expecting.
I am curious what you are running them on. I was impressed with the Wilson as far as build quality and choice of drivers. I heard them on a couple different sources and it sounded like the sound was stuck inside the cabinet. Not putting your choice down. Im wondering what kind of source I need to hear these on? Thx.
i am never fussed by other opinions. i keep my own counsel. ;) regarding Wilson, i just posted a review with my full system on it. i would say that source is less important than Speaker set up. and i am not talking about "art is science" positioning/placement. The main man of the national distributor came with the GM of the Dealer and they spent 8 hours. They resoldered new resistors into the tweeter (twice) to adjust for the treble dispersion in my room. The speaker is literally that adjustable, and it comes with the installation of the speakers.
Good became impressive became wow...became Smokes!!!!!!!!!!!! over the course of 8 hours. And they actually said there is a touch more tweaking they are happy to come back and do after the New Year's.
My source: Oppo 83 Transport to Zanden DAC Signature, through CJ ACT 2 pre and Gryphon Antileon. IC/SC is Transparent REference, and the PCs are all PAD Dominus B or Anniversary Contego.
Again, the sources are all good to my ear, but the set up was waaaaaay more important.
For example, the first soldered resistor was better than the original...but it still felt like middle C in the piano was being damped...kinda like the "trapped" you mentioned...like being in a sound proofed practice room when i used to practice the piano in music school. once they changed resitors again...it all opened up completely.
I do agree with your assesment. I have heard the Grands sound very good myself and setup is always the key with big full bandwidth speakers. Most who have never tried to set one up will never understand the task involved and it's worst with big panel speakers...
Thanks. And yes, panels are tough to set up...but can be incredible. I still remember listening to the Apogee Stages with Mark Levinson electronics around 15 years ago. They were already kinda old by then...but it was remarkable how "lifelike" they sounded.
Interesting point. i think you must be right. in fact, the transparency/imaging of the Slamms i have was suppoedly improved by Wilson(though i've not done direct comparison) by making adjustment to those very edges. They basially shaped each cone cabinet by carving back to the corners around the cone to keep their dispersion fully open. it started with the last generation of the Slamms on the midrange and was improved in the Alexandria by being applied to every cone.
A speaker with a frequency response like mountain Everest can never be characterised as the Best! Cummon guys at least let's agree on some basic things!
Engineers know very well that the square wave is the fundamental frequency with the odd order harmonics in proper phase very similar to music. And In music, the notes are complex waveforms, consisting of fundamental frequencies and harmonics very similar to the square wave. So if the loudspeaker cannot reproduce a square wave much less it cannot and will not reproduce music accurately. THAT IS A FACT AND NOT AN OPINION!
So the best speakers that I have ever heard are high power true minimum phase speakers that obviously reproduce square waves. This was accomplished using my own high power true minimum phase crossover that I personally design.
I was the Chief technician at Dunlavy Audio Labs and actually did accomplish what they call the Holy Grail of loudspeaker design, a flat amplitude frequency and phase response using a high power true minimum phase crossover.
So if the loudspeaker cannot reproduce a square wave much less it cannot and will not reproduce music accurately. THAT IS A FACT AND NOT AN OPINION! -------------------------------
True Dat !
Squarewave.... didn't JD speakers use odd order X-over's, i believe very similar to the Duntech's prior.
Yes, ability to pass a square wave is also a claim to fame for full range walsh drivers like those found in original OHM Fs and As.
That was their strong point. They had other weaknesses, mainly reliability and ability to go loud.
Newer OHm Walsh line speakers address those weaknesses however their 2 way design using the wide and not full range Walsh driver also now compromises ability to pass a square wave to some extent as a tradeoff from what I have read.
Is there a full range speaker that can pass a square wave without other significant compromises available today?
Duntech always touted that the Sovereign and Princess could accurately reproduce a square wave, and had the graphs to back up the claim. I believe they are still in production, though I have not checked their website for a while. Dunlavy as well, as was noted above, though they are no longer in production, sadly. I'd be curious if other speaker manufacturers make this claim.
I think it was Duntech as set up in Australia with government support. When that support was lost, John moved to Utah and got government support there, becoming Dunlavey. I do know that Duntech for a while continued the Sovereign under a different name. I don't think either company still exists. John died in 2007.
It lies a lot in how you place a pair of speakers in the room. You can make a not-so-famous speaker sound great with proper placement. Likewise, an expensive speaker can sound poor if not placed right.
Telescope_trade, they have been selling these mk2 901's for about a year now. They don't say anything about the mk2 901's on their web site but if you call bose and talk to one of their bose techs at 1-800-367-4008 they will tell you about these mk2 901's. They did some improvements to their speaker cones and they also now use a new type of surrounds that will last a lot longer now. They also did some improvements to their equalizers too.
Cool thanks for the info! I'll check into them! I'll tell you what, I agree that the 901's sound great, not sure the best I have "ever" heard, but I have heard a lot! And I have always wondered where the H.E. double hockey sticks Bose bashers came from. I have owned/heard worse very high end speakers!
Bose? Come on- the concept is absurd. The results are poor.
Considering the fact that you keep introducing the same product to this thread over and over again, you set off the shrill shill alarm. Even if Bose made a credible product, your incessant push would serve to discredit them just as it has already discredited you. The 901 is not even a good speaker much less a candidate for "best" anything. Give it up.
. Disclaimer: I don't go to audio shows and I don't know any audiophiles that I can visit to listen to other systems. I don't go to brick and mortar stores because of the pressure and attitudes of the sales people. So, the best speakers that I have ever heard are my own, Infinity IRS Beta. .
The best I have 'ever heard' would have been different auditions at different times in my life; each leaving an indelible impression in my auditory memory. I haven't 'owned' any of these however but would love to enjoy them someday.
KEF 107/2 Raymond Cooke Special Edition Duntech Sovereigns Magnepan 20.1s Dynaudio Confidence C4s
and one I currently own which still produce (on axis) the best midrange ever. Martin Logan CLS (first version).
Macrojack, back when they sold these BOSE 901's in High End stores people use to RAVE about them ! It was Only after they started selling the 901's in Discount Stores did people start bashing the 901's !!...
Ammending a previous post--which I've started to do many times, but just didn't bother...the very best speaker system I've heard, by a really wide margin is the MBL System. I'm extrapolating what I heard, from the big po (potential) that was there, based on the handicap of the venue. Show venues, and I know this from exhibiting personally, as far back as 1986--are a nightmare...poluted electrical lines, inadequate power, flimsy room construction, terrible diminsions...you name it, they're all there to some degree.
In Munich a couple of years ago, I heard the MBL's always a curiosity of mine, based on the 'look and feel' of the product. So, while exhibiting myself, in my own suite, I took a bit of a break and visited their room. The MBL's do things dynamically that most speakers have real issues with--and let's face it, one missing ingredient of loudspeaker reproduction is 'Dynamic Fidelity', (thanks Jim Thiel). Without the enormous contrasts which ARE one prime ingredient in accurate reproduction, we have a truly renditional moment, instead of a passable faxcimile. (sp?) Then, there's scale...which is to say, size of, focus of, and the three diminsions necessary to complete the whole of the experience. The MBL's handle these areas with aplomb and are, therefore, IMHO, easily the best of those that I've experienced. Do they cost a lot? Yes--but then, you get a lot--a whole lot!
Lrsky, the MBLs have always left me cold. I heard the first efforts back when CES was still in Chicago. I was fascinated by the basic ideas. I do think that in the last several years, their room has gotten much better, but I cannot see giving them serious consideration.
I also could not imagine my ever buying a $70k system, but I did after hearing the Tidal Contriva Discera SEs.
Tbg, Boy do I understand your comment...you're precisely where I was BEFORE I heard them set up, for a change, in a manner which showed of their charms. I'm thinking, taking a good friend to the 'great' restaurant, on an off night trying to explain what it was, or has been at other times. Only hearing for one's self is believing...so I get it.
Once I heard them as they should be, wow--I was hypnotized.
Glad you're happy with your recent purchase, those are intoxicating speakers, by the way. (As if YOU didn't already know).
mbls have to be set up right in the right sized room and with the right amp and electronics running them to demonstrate their distinctive charms appropriately.
I've heard the exact same system set up this way at the dealers and not as well at a show. You would not have known the performance at the show was lacking unless you heard them set up just right. They can do a wide and deep holographic soundstage with very accurate placement of individual instruments within it like no other I have heard when done right. And all other aspects of the sound were spot on as well.
Im being sarcastic here. The best speaker you ever heard was years ago when you were younger and a fledling audiophile. You heard speaker X and were blown away. Reality check. First off, your hearing was better back then. 2nd, the speaker was driven by some well matched components.
Mapman, As usual, you've hit it right on... The MBL's because of the 360 degree dispersion is quite a bit trickier to set up--and the room becomes an increasingly greater part of the sound. But, yes, when right that 3D, soundstage with instruments lurking in a place in space, takes on an almost 'visual' quality...'Help me ObiWanKinobi'....that kind of holography. Larry
Lrsky, Are you talking about the MBL 101 E Mk II or the 101Extremes? It would be $60k for the 101Es, $24k preamp, $43k amp. I have no idea what the Extremes cost. I add the big MBL amps as I know these speakers are inefficient.
The 'big boys', I don't remember the model numbers and am too lazy to look it up Tbg. All I know is, that the promise of 'live music' was as closely realized as I have ever experienced. Before, room, power, etc. all conspired to 'limit' the experience. Not this time. They were everything, if money were no object, that I'd chose for the perfect system. I'd do it realizing that all elements necessary for great sound would have to be attended to. Do what the great Winston Ma, did (First Impressions Music and a friend an colleague) when he built his 'listening room' in his beautiful home. "MAKE IT PERFECT" only if you want the sound to be as good as it can be.
But, they really were/are magic in all facets of sound reproduction for my taste--Dynamically accurate, Tonally accurate, Spatially Accurate, (if this sounds a little like a Jim Thiel seminar, it's because that's where I learned it).
Having played Alto Sax for more years than I care to admit, I've been in live music scenarios thousands of times...the unamplified kind...and wow, that's what these are capable of. If only...$$$$$$
I used to think the 901's were the best ever for many years. Thank god I stopeed dropping acid and drinking my breakfast. lunch and dinner. Then when I stopped doing heavy drugs and only smoked crack, I was in love with B&W. Now that I have put the crack pipe down I realize which speakers are not the best in the world; Boze and B&W.
Mpit, BUT have you heard BOSE's newest 901's yet??? Crossoverless speakers have a certain Musicality NO Other speaker design concept has EVER matched....apparently, most crossovers interfere with the most critical parts of the audio spectrum and elimination of the same results in a Natural/Emotional Delivery, beyond scientifically explainable proof.
Hifisoundguy - Yeah, but... When I think of crossoverless speakers I think of 1 driver, maybe 2 in parallel. I would think that 9 drivers would defeat a great deal of the benefit of a crossoverless design. That being coherence. But I know you like the 901 Vs, and that's all that counts in the end.
The 901's because of the 360 degree uneven dispersion is quite a bit trickier to set up--and the room becomes an increasingly greater part of the sound, but when right that 3D, soundstage with instruments lurking in a place in space, with a wide and deep holographic sound stage takes on an almost 'visual' quality.
Of course you need the right amp and room setup to appreciate the 901's, they need power, lots of power like an MBL. so an MBL type amp, pre-amp will get them singing or use that monster Bose amplifier originally made to drive them.
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