Vandersteen 7's playing analog 50's jazz. Quad ESL-57's are a close second, but 1/100 the acoustic power, and (literally) half the bandwidth. I once owned a pair of Quad's paired with B-139 based transmission line subwoofers and Sequerra T-1 ribbon tweeters. This solved the bandwidth problem, but not the acoustic power problem.
Both of these speakers display a delicacy with midrange and high frequency sounds at the " pppp" volume level that I've never heard elsewhere. Both are remarkable loudspeakers. (BTW, Richard V still considers Quad ESL's as his reference). |
Dynaudio Sapphire. Doesn't matter who says I swear by the Dyns although this particular one is not as costly as some of the names mentioned here. Unfortunately, my pockets aren't deep enough to go beyond that. I am sure the Evidence Master would sound much better but that's all there is (quoting Dynaudio's tag line). I used to build DIY speakers or do speaker mods and what I found is that some of those astronomically-priced speaker manufactures actually uses OEM Dynaudio drives. I am not going to mention names since it might piss some people off. |
About the Dynaudio Sapphires, if you don't mind.
I love the Dynaudio sound but I have to sit 8 feet from my speakers (they are on the long wall of my 20 x 13 foot room).
I had Aerial 10Ts & Wilson WP6s right here & they were fine. So do you think the Sapphires would fit here? |
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I consider the Dynaudio line in general to be a gold standard in speaker design and sound, even if not necessarily the most unique or distinctive sound out there. |
The new Vandersteen 7's. Too expensive for me now, so I had to settle on Maggie 3.7's. They may be better except for low end. |
I know it's old, but AR 10pi are a slightly updated version of the trusty AR303a, manufactured when Teledyne got involved-- 1970's. They need at least a good PP EL34 or good solid state amp (Belles, or Van Alstine, etc). These do not "image" in the conventional sense- they fill the room with accurate and detailed sound. Never heard anything better, owned many vintage and high-end. Something about the paper 12" woofers on these, and paper dome tweeter, just right with vocals, cello, piano, symphony, anything! |
I have a pair of CAT 10.9s that are run by 3 CAT 600.2 amps and I have not heard anything better. Ever! Come to Texas and take a listen. it will blow your mind. |
Cocoabaroque,
I remember a high school friend's family, cira 1973, had the AR 10 Pi's...man, they were COOL speakers back in the day :-) |
I think Bose got it "RIGHT" with their latest 901 series 6 version 2's this time around ! They made a lot improvements to their latest 901's and it shows too ! After listening to them for over 6 months now I think they have two of the best qualities that I always love most about the raved Quad ESL-57's...midrange clarity and harmonic cohesireness are so captivating that it just draws into the music much..more, Like only a very few speakers can match ! I think these latest 901's sounds more like LIVE MUSIC than any other speakers I have ever heard ! The best bargain I have ever seen on the market.. period !! |
07-18-11: Hifisoundguy
"I think Bose got it "RIGHT" with their latest 901 series 6 version 2's this time around!"
I've heard A LOT about the new 901s lately...mostly from you ;) |
Bose 901s ?
Well I should hope they could get it right after 41 years of trying (maybe longer). |
Does bose still use "construction" paper tweeters? Now thats quality to be proud of.
Honestly, after hearing bose, Im just shocked they sound as good as they do with the horrible build quality, and cheap drivers. Until that gets fixed, I cant even take them serious. |
Verity, Magico, Vandersteen. Maybe they are not from K-Mart but whatever... |
The Bose 901 is a failed concept. Hifisoundguy cannot change that with his incessant intrusions. The speaker is a "line disarray" which succeeded well in print before most of us knew anything. As we learned more about speaker designs, the absurdity of the Bose 901 assertions became apparent. |
OVer many years, I've never heard a home audio Bose setup that sounded even marginally good to me.
Maybe some tube or very good other modern amplification would help? Possible.
One thing I'll say about the 901s, having not heard a pair outside of commercial setups in quite a while, is that their price point relative to the high end is probably more attractive than ever. They used to be one of the more expensive speakers out there for enthusiasts to covet. Now they pale in comparison probably in most ways to the current "high end".
They seem to garner a lot of positive ratings on various sites that measure these things though, no denying that. So someone out there is dropping decent money on them and liking it. |
That's the problem here, nobody else here has heard the.. "latest BOSE 901's yet". People here think these latest BOSE 901's are the same as the 901's made in the past BUT there not ! The have been a lot improvements to these latest 901's and it shows too ! They are now using a different speaker drive and it looks like a high quality driver too. It's just a matter of time before someone else here try out these latest 901's and posts how GOOD these speakers really are. BOSE BASHERS.. you go head and have your fun BUT I know how "DAMN GOOD" these "LATEST" 901's are !!......... |
I think personal taste would be a big factor as always, but it would be interesting to hear the latest 901's in comparison to others at their price point. I have no doubt they will sound different, and perhaps even distinctive.
How good? I think technically, there is only so much the design can do but that is true of most speakers at that price point, so you never know just who might prefer what and why. |
I'm surprised Bose redid the 901s. I would think it could be a cash cow (no R&D, no retooling, no advertizing) if they left it alone. Thought they were more concerned with HT, headphones and other products they've become successful at. But to redo what is mostly a 2 Channel speaker??? Interesting. |
Anybody dumb enough to buy 901s is a solid candidate for an endless succession of new and improved versions of the same dreck. Same goes for many revered brands. Much taffy is distributed in the name of sonic purity and solid value.
Hifisoundguy is clearly a shill and he seems to be getting rather defiant. Check his posts - all Bose all the time. |
the best speakers I have heard is a SPEAKER I haven't heard YET? I have lots of speakers and even owned BOSE 901 series 5 STACKED in the mid 80's while stationed in okinawa. They do sound a lot better stacked and USING sound processors such as equalizers, dbx range expanders and carver sonic holography or omnisonic imager at the time. I owned the bose 601 series 2 prior to that. Until I heard other speaker designs and owned other designs is when I realized BOSE isn't for me, and the more I researched and contact merchants regarding bose, the more I realized they were just a mass market speaker company. The DRIVERS used on the bose don't make any sense whatsover and they are cheaply made. No high frequency drivers, no low frequency drivers. I can understand if they implemented a line source panel consisting of ribbons, domes, horns and 5 or 6 inch midranges and possibly several 8 inch or 10 inch and even 12 inch woofers to use direct and reflecting properties, then most of the audio industry might have more respect. All bose 901 is one big midrange box, it has NO DETAIL in the upper or lower octaves. I was never able to create tight bass even with the sound processors and equalizers. I was never able to get any crystalline highs either and a stacked 901 of whatever series using sound processors is the best possible way of making bose sound it's best, but it's still MEDIOCRE in comparison to a well designed dynamic, planar, electrostat, hybrid and linesource. I would only get a bose 901 these days as a MUSEUM PIECE because I collect vintage and new speakers I can afford. After listening to maggies and ohm's and owning an electrostat such as an acoustat and eminent technology and now ESS HEIL, why would I waste my ears on a GIMMICK technology as bose are! Yeah, I was duped in the 70's and 80's thinking bose was all that, but I was just in high school and a young adult not knowing any better and STILL LEARNING. 33 yrs later, I consider myself an audiophile and BOSE is not an audiophile speaker but mass market cheaply made and bad design speaker company. Many great speaker companies folded but it's all about sales and marketing when it comes to survivability of a product and that is where BOSE excels in NOT IN TECHNOLOGY! Using MIT engineers doesn't PROVE good sound engineering, that's like saying just because one goes to HARVARD doesn't necessarily mean they would make good lawyers. |
Jack,
If you can tout horns and I can tout OHMs, and others tout their favorite expensive toys, then nothing wrong with someone taking up the Bose cause I suppose. Bose is the underdog in this venue, right? Ha!
Maybe Bose should horn load those suckers in their next version? That'll fix'em. |
Macrojack, NO, I'm not a SHILL but I do want the member on these forums to know that these LATEST 901's are NOT the same as the 901's made in the PAST. I think it's PRETTY SMART when you find a product that is right up there with the "finest sounding speakers on the market" for.. "A LOT... LESS MONEY" !........$$$ |
The responses you have received in this thread and many others should make it clear to you that most of us are not interested in your ploy.
If you are not a shill, you are plainly misinformed about where the Bose 901 belongs in the audio hierarchy. Nine table radio speakers in a disarray contorted by a deep smiley graphic EQ has only so much potential. And that potential maxed out back in the 1970s. |
Hifiguy,
If you want to have a prayer of convincing others here the new 901s are in teh same league as some the best out there, I think you need to offer up some details as to how you reach this conclusion. What are you comparing to and what similarities or differences are you hearing that leads to your conclusion?
My gut tells me it might do pretty well in the midrange as you indicated if set up well, but am hard pressed to understand how it can handle frequency extremes as well as better designs in that regard.
Not everyone cares about those things though, so with that caveat in place, I might see where some think these are the cat's meow, but one should really offer up some facts or details to support one's conclusions, especially when perhaps as surprising to many here as yours. |
I remember going in a Bose store years ago and sitting through the demonstration using the BIG speakers on the wall. I did wonder why there were not using Bose speakers until they took the grills/shells off of the walls and exposed the cubes hiding behind.
Is it possible that the new version of the Bose 901's that are seemingly so wonderful are really just a shell around another brand speaker? |
Macrojack, the topic here is about...The BEST speaker YOU ever heard. To my EARS, the latest BOSE 901's right up there "among the finest sounding speakers on the market" and that's all that matters !.... |
It doesn't seem to matter what the topic is as long as you can find some way to intrude upon it with your uninformative, unconvincing and unremitting Bose claims.
The 901 is a bogus design, a con, that has shown remarkable longevity in the face of common sense and common knowledge. Give it a rest. |
horns versus Bose.
Battle of the century!
David versus Goliath?
Both so misunderstood by others! So under-appreciated!
Hifi and Macro, you two should be able to find some solace with each other although I doubt you'll ever come to terms on what good sound is.
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The 901's are like two big audiophile buttcheeks. |
Bjesien _ Excellent analogy but you stopped short of pointing out what emerges from between the cheeks.............. |
Macrojack, If you go look at July's Issue of Stereophile they reviewed the Audience ClairAudient 2+2 speakers and the writer made comments about the "possible audible benefits of having only ONE type and SIZE of SPEAKER DRIVER, AND NO PASSIVE-CROSSOVERS". This is sure true with the 901's ! |
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I don't why people are so freaked out by the use of an active equalizer like the BOSE 901 uses. All the purist vinyl fans don't seem to mind the RIAA equalizer built into every phono preamp...... |
From Bose site: Today, thanks to Bose electronics research, our 901 speaker system incorporates some 350 enhancements over the acclaimed original.
That's alot of enhancements. |
One of the MOST IMPORTANT things and most overlooked things with the Bose 901's is using really good interconnects and speaker cables with these speakers. This is just as important with the 901's as speaker set up is ! I think a lot more people would like these 901's if they would just use better cables with these speakers. You are never going hear the full potential of these 901's until you use better cables with them !... |
Ok everybody gets it, you like Bose, now lets move back to the best speakers you ever hear topic!!
This is getting boring to hear you talk about the 901s. Start a separate thread if you wish. |
Has anyone heard the new CHEAPO modified sony SB 300 that dakiom modified (known for the feedback stabilizers)? It just came out. Though what they did with the INTERIOR seem to be an achievement. They claim it's the best speaker out there and challenges anyone who can out do it? At $1595, I am not so sure of trying the 30 day return policy for a CRAP sony that was sold at bestbuy a number of years ago which I bought and ended up in my niece's home awhile back ago. I can't justify any audio engineer wasting their time modifying a cheapo and sell it at that price point. I'm sure it sounds fine with all the new patents and unique modification process, but to claim it's the best speaker out there is kind of stretching the imagination and what about the WOW FACTOR? Even someone who is a diehard dakiom fan who has a significant other, takes home a speaker like that and spends that kind of money is going to be frowned upon just by looks alone. I am just curious if anyone heard it or tried it. To me modifying a cheapo like that without modifying speaker drivers or cabinets is like spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on a volkswagon bug and think it can outrun and outdo a lambhorgini countach is STRETCHING their claim a bit?
Best speakers I've heard are my ess heil 1D that I modified removing the passive radiator and switching the FRONT driver to the rear and adding to the front a pioneer subwoofer. With the right electronics, it does what magnepans are known for and does the reflective principle that bose attempts to do but with real dynamic bass, not a fake muddy one that bose does. It's kind of a toss up for me, between my eminent technology lft 8a and my ess heil 1d. |
The best speakers I heard are the ones that disappeared ... |
I haven't heard them yet..LOL, but I bet they would be unreal...Evolution Acoustics MM3's |
Rockitman, actually it was the MMMiniOnes that most impressed me at THE Show. |
Tbg,
That was one of our favorite rooms :-)
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I live near a bose outlet store and I have heard the new bose speakers and They sounded like my fathers stereo back in the 70's. They were presented to me as the much revered Bose 901's and I was polite and listened but they sounded decidedly midfi to me. No imaging or anything I would associate with being at the performance. I wouldn't ever listen to these and say WOW! It sounds like I'm right there at the performance. It is possible that they weren't set up correctly but that is also the responsibility of the retailer selling them. After going to the shows and hearing much of the equipment and seeing that alot of audiophiles who are lost and don't have a clue as to how a really good system should sound. Hell, 90% of high end stereo stores do not have there system's set up right. I live in the San Francisco bay area and I've been to easily 20+ stores over the years and between San Francisco, oakland, Berkley, and San Mateo, as well as Denver, and Just cause the store sell's expensive equipment doesn't mean its set up right. When you find a system that Disappears and doesn't even sound like you're in a room with speakers, then you know, that this guy knows, what he is doing. |
Jsquattrin... I did not like these latest bose 901's at all the way bose recommended setup !.. You also have to use really GOOD interconnects and speaker cables with these 901's too, like the Crimson Musiclink cables ! Also, these speakers sound like sh*t with the bose stands, I got the best sound out of these 901's by putting them on top of some plastic milk crates about 12 inches off the floor and with the 901's tilted up a little bit by two large wagner anti-vibration pads under each speaker and with the 901's turned around backwards with most of the speaker drivers facing me ! They also sound their best in a large room with nothing around them !.. I also have my bose equalizer hook up between my source and my amazingly good Yamaha a-s2000 integrated amp that is also a really good match with these latest 901's too ! I also using some world class ac outlets in my system, "Maestro ac outlets" !! To my ears,everything in my system are "Giant Killers" !! |
There are some who would insist that only Magico can be the best and that we are all delusional. |
this is a difficult question to answer, because it depends upon the amp-speaker interaction.
i would say the best driver type is a ribbon, electrostat or planar magnetic. |
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Jas Audio Plato. They just bring a lot of energy in to the music, and give the sound a bit of nerve. Well it took only one demo, and a week later a brand new set where shipped to my home. |
I absolutely agree with MRTENNIS being a speaker collector. I've tried piezo electric,domes, waveguides, horns etc. but the ribbons, planars and electrostats which I also own are much cleaner than other types of transducers. I hope people get a change to experience the sound of ESS HEILS being used as your high/mid transducer. It is crystal clear with the right kind of gear more so then any other transducer I have heard. The other if you can find it is the add on JANSZEN Z-130 the last model made and the eminent technology. Some ribbon designs are better than others, the same with electrostats, you just have to find a design that suits your equipment. Some of the discontinued or defunct manufacturers made some great transducers but misfortune is the sad part of audio when companies who contribute no longer exist. |
In my first real component audio system, I had a pair of Lafayette Criterion short floorstanders with HEil tweeter in an all Lafayette system built around a 40 watt integrated (I worked at Lafayette at the time as a poor college kid and got a good deal).
They were my favorites from lafayette at that time due to the unique clarity of the heil, but teh rest was questionable. Also, the heils had a tendency to fry quite easily in that rig. I changed everything less than a year later.
I would like to hear a good modern heil design running off my current system. What I heard back then was probably not indicative of what is possible. |
