Thanks stereo5. A few years back we remodeled our home and had to relocate my listening room to a smaller one. At the time I had an all Pass Aleph system (including phono stage) and Silverline Sonatina's (Avalon style). Loved the system, however it took up too much room. I am very happy with the Pathos and my current setup.
Tempted to buy a Macintosh
I am quite tempted to buy a Macintosh amp, and would like to learn more about it.
I have a Almarro 318B (18W) integrated and a Triode Lab 2A3 integrated. For speakers, I have a set of Zu Omen Def I and Spatial Audio X5. I haven’t heard a Masintosh in person. I mainly like its retro look. From reviews, I heard it has a very smooth sound, which may match with my listening preference. I only listen to Jazz and Bossa Nova with low-medium volume. And my questions are:
1) My speakers are efficient speakers and I listen in low volume. So, I don’t need and want big power. Is Macintosh a good match to my speakers? I have no interest to change my speakers for now.
2) my budget is around $3000 for used equipment. That is not a lot for a Mac. So, it seems I would go for an integrated.
3) I like tubes, but it seems Macintosh is more a SS brand. And it seems there is no tube integrated. The entry level MA252 is a hybrid with a tube preamp and SS amp. I listen to some your tube video and it sounds great. But of course, can’t draw any conclusion base on YouTube videos. Is that a good choice to step into Macintosh world? Or people would suggest to go different routes to get the full potential of Macintosh? That is all SS, or separate tube pre amp (e.g. Coincident or Supratek) and power amp (MC275)?
I have a Almarro 318B (18W) integrated and a Triode Lab 2A3 integrated. For speakers, I have a set of Zu Omen Def I and Spatial Audio X5. I haven’t heard a Masintosh in person. I mainly like its retro look. From reviews, I heard it has a very smooth sound, which may match with my listening preference. I only listen to Jazz and Bossa Nova with low-medium volume. And my questions are:
1) My speakers are efficient speakers and I listen in low volume. So, I don’t need and want big power. Is Macintosh a good match to my speakers? I have no interest to change my speakers for now.
2) my budget is around $3000 for used equipment. That is not a lot for a Mac. So, it seems I would go for an integrated.
3) I like tubes, but it seems Macintosh is more a SS brand. And it seems there is no tube integrated. The entry level MA252 is a hybrid with a tube preamp and SS amp. I listen to some your tube video and it sounds great. But of course, can’t draw any conclusion base on YouTube videos. Is that a good choice to step into Macintosh world? Or people would suggest to go different routes to get the full potential of Macintosh? That is all SS, or separate tube pre amp (e.g. Coincident or Supratek) and power amp (MC275)?
87 responses Add your response
dill, "I did it out of respect for the OP only. Not for those who judge me." I don't know that anyone was judging you, maybe just asking you to ease up on the OP, and as it turned out, there was a good reason. I know that I've written some things on this forum that I've regretted, and I've written PM's to the person involved to apologize. |
I have the McIntosh 601 monoblocks, Martin Logan 15a Renaissance and a McIntosh c47 pre amp. Music is absolutely crystal clear. Highs are strong, cymbals are perfect. Midrange and voice, I don’t think anything can compare or I just can’t imagine something sounding better You haven’t Really heard Whitney Houston until you hear her and others on this system. It’s really mind boggling. Bass and low end is awesome also. Stand up Bass on jazz is perfect. The transition of deep base on violins to mid and upper ranges are seamless Rap, yes Rap, will blow you away. So so much power when you need it and still Chrystal clear. Still looking to upgrade from a blusound node 2 to something that will match my system more. Like the 5k Lumin. But, no big rush. |
Let me add another very happy McIntosh owner. I have MC501s driving 3.6 Maggies via a C220 tube preamp. I bought all the McIntosh gear used 10 years ago +/- and could sell them all today for what I paid. Another thing about McIntosh amps, they are typically under rated for power. My MC501s are advertised at 500 wpc, bench test to about 750. As others have said, you can get your money back out if them if you don't like them. Another vote for Audio Classics and used gear as well! |
To flatbackround, did you ever compare your ma 6900 to any other Mcintosh amp? I have several other Mcintosh amps that make me happy, but my ma 6900 just doesn't deliver. What do I do wrong? The ma 6900 was in production for 15 years, so it must do something wright! Can anybody help me to let it s(w)ing??? |
The MA 6900 is 200 watts per using their auto former design. It does not double down into 4 or 2 ohms. So it is on the low power side of their SS amps. I run preamp out to a subs crossover and back into the amp section. To me an improvement. I also have a Wyred4Sound St1000v2 which drove Maggie 1.7s well with 400 watts class D. After a few months I went back to the McIntosh. I may switch again for fun. |
Knowing Mac and selling them know they are dependable ,and nice looking with the meters ,respectable sounding but not in the passlabs class or ,a Krell or a Mark Levenson . i am into modding ,go to utube many average parts at least a dozen red wima capacitors decent but nothing speacial for coupling capacitors there are so many different better choices also it is a class AB amplifier a top Amplifier usually will have at least The first 10 watts in pure class A which is sonicly better unless running a top digital amplifier like Merrill which has its pros and cons . You didnot mention budget , or integrated only or new or used . McIntosh is very respectable and maybe the nicest looking but not near the best sounding if spending over $6000 New for a seperate or integrated. I am just giving my evaluation after selling them for several years . If you have the extra money a Pass labs is clearly a step up , as well as the New Krell line. |
I had a complete Mac separates setup in the 80's. Amp, preamp & receiver. For whatever reason, I moved on to a Nakamichi integrated receiver when I went to CD's. I kept the CS's over the years and they went into storage in a closet. Now in retirement I decided to dive back in and plunged in with Mac again. C2600 tube preamp, MC462 amp, MCD600 CD, SACD player. Also have Mac speakers. Could not be happier with the sound. I know there are a lot of Mac haters on the forum but we all have varied taste and ears. |
Mac made their rep with their tube gear. The Mac C22 preamp is terrific. The Mac 275 amp was the Gold Standard. *Was* is the operative watch word. It’s still a great amp. There are those who see the VTA ST-120 as a Mac 275 killer. https://www.audioasylum.com/messages/amp/193985/review-vta-m-125-amp-kit-amplifier-tube There are two ways to look at Mac tube gear. It’s very good, but overpriced for the sound you get from it. That being said, properly cared for, it will never lose value, but will in fact appreciate over time. VTA tube gear is MUCH less costly and in the views of many, BETTER sounding. But it very rarely comes up for sale used, so you have to buy it new - either in kit form or preassembled and tested. So anything VTA piece you get will have a lower resale value. A Mac 275 will run you about $5000 or so. That’s also about the going price for a C22 preamp. But the top-line VTA phono preamp, line stage preamp and 60 wpc ST-120 power amp, preassembled and tested, altogether price out at about $4200. You can save about $1000 off that price if you build the kit versions. http://tubes4hifi.com |
You use SET amps now, with max power of 18wpc. How much power do you want from an upgrade ? You have a Triode TRV 2a3 amp. Have you considered moving up in the Triode line ? Triode TRV-845SE is an 845 integrated that can deliver about 25wpc. The offer a new parallel 300b amp that is rated for 22wpc. The also a few amps using EL34 and KT88 tubes, for more power. Given your tastes and setup, I would recommend vintage MAC equipment. With $3000 you should be able to find a pr of Mc30 monoblocks, MC225 or MC240 stereo amps; all having been serviced. All have level controls so you can connect a source component directly to the amp (or through a passive preamp). I have experience with many MAC tube amps (currently use restored MC225 and MC240), and SS amps (6100 / 6200 / 2100 / 2105 / 250 / 2505). Many extol the virtues of the MC275. It is a good amp, but the lower powered Mac amps sound better. A sideways recommendation would be a restored Eico HF81. This is a 6bq5 based integrated amplifier. It will deliver about 15 wpc. I have a restored unit (ALL new caps, resistors, wiring etc). It sounds sublime within its limits. You may also investigate restored vintage Fisher, Scott, Sherwood integrated amplifiers. Key is to be sure any unit has been carefully restored by a competent tech with a good reputation. Vintage MAC holds value, as do the other vintage units I mentioned. All will probably continue to appreciate in value over time. Benefit here is if you don't like what you hear, you can resell for what you paid or even a little more. Your only cost is time ! How rare is that in this hobby ? |
I’m also a happy Mac owner here, but before I purchased my MC 601 monoblocks, I was auditioning between Audio Research, Pass Lab, and McIntosh, I end up liking the Mac amp with the C2300 tube preamp by far. Before this I had the C2100 for 25 years build in the early 70s, no pretty blue light nor meter just pure clean sound until I wanted to upgrade and still endEd up with Mac that matches really great with Vandersteen speakers. Obviously I did not bought the Mac for it’s looks, it’s purely for its sounds quality because if the AR or Pass Lab sounded great to me, I would have bought that instead and they’re not pretty looking. |
I own a Mac 252 and just love it. Use my B&W 803 D4 speakers and run only digital in this system using a modest Bluesound Node 2i. It sound exceptional in my office. And if you are into the look, it is a look that becomes an art piece. Doesn't have the meters, but has an awesome look just the same. But it is the sound that does it for me. I don't think I will ever get rid of that 252. Just to cool. I will ultimately pass it down to one of the kids when they get settled. |
@aberyclark thanks for your input, that’s what I am worried. In fact, I just received the 2A3 tube and test out a 4 W SET amp. It matches better than the 18W Almarro, I feel. So, I feel the MA275 is not a good match with my speakers, too much power. @treynolds155 The MHA100 is interesting. Wow, it is like a Swiss Army knife. It can be a all in one, but it also has a preamp out so it acts as a DAC+preamp? That’s a plus which opens up option to buy a power amp. There are some power amps I am interested such as the Yamamoto A08s. Can I bypass the headphone amp section when I use it for speakers? One concern is usually, something must be sacrificed when cramping more features and keeping the budget. It would be even better to have a DAC out to my integrated amp? I just bought a Topping D7x DAC. |
The Firstwatt, mentioned above, is fantastic. Much louder than you would think with 25 watts. Here's the kicker.........you can crank the J2 up super loud......the sound is as clear as normal listening volumes. I've never had an amp so clear near the top of its peak volume. It is really amzing once you hear the clarity in person. I've been told the Benchmark amp is super clear as well. |
No matter how I like McIntosh, it seems it won’t match my speaker. Definitely over power. At the beginning, I though more power is not necessarily a bad thing. Yes, the volume gained can be a problem, but I read it will give tighter bass. I also read that higher power amp “May” also have less detailed, and have more stress on mid range. This is exactly how I feel when using my Almarro on the Spatial Audio X5. I think if my speakers don’t have a power subwoofer, then the extra power can be beneficial. However, with my Zu and Spatial X5, McIntosh seems really not a good match. But thanks for helping me to learn more about McIntosh. |
The McIntosh 3 year warranty is only valid for the original purchaser and cannot be transferred. If you’re buying used then not much of an issue as most second hand gear would be in excess of 3 years old I guess. Mac will repair and service gear if not original owner no problem. I have an MA8000 solid state 300w integrated and love it. (Has a really good quality headphone amp built in as well). Can be bought for around $5,000 or £5,000 in UK on the used market. Bought mine 18 months ago on Ebay when it was just over 2 years old and been 100% reliable so far. Sounds silky smooth and doesn’t take up much room either compared to separates. |
Gte357s. I have a similar situation as you. May I interrupt this thread. Any Mac owners have an opinion on the McIntosh C2700 tube preamp? I am new to Audiogon and recently started building a 2 channel/home theater system. I am demoing the C2700 in my home sound system now, I like it so far. My Budget will not exceed the price of a McIntosh price range. I’m looking for a better tube preamp with all the bells and whistles. I know there’s more expensive audio gear such as luxman, pass labs, audio research etc. which is out of my price range. I never thought about McIntosh until last week when the dealer recommended I try it at home. I’m still looking at other preamp’s as well. In the future I would like a better amp as well. Thank you in advance for any comments. |
Jamitloud, you're likely to find c2700 owners and opinions on the audioaficionado forums. I've not heard the 2700 but own the c2300. The 2700 looks like a great solution if your long term plan is an all in one solution, meaning, pre amp, DAC, and phono stage all being housed in one package. Add in tone controls and tubed circuit and your options begin to narrow down to Luxman, Accuphase and Mcintosh (in your price range). The LUXMAN - CL-38u may be a sonic competitor, but lacks some of the Mc features. Might be worth a listen if you plan to go with a separate DAC. I can tell you the Mcintosh tube preamps do benefit from NOS tube upgrades and worthy of consideration if you decide to purchase. |
I don't know anything about the Macs, just wanted to give you another option to look at in the same vein. The Vincent K35 doesn't have the meters but is still reminiscent to me. The reviews were good until they tried to reproduce bass for loud rock music. Which doesn't apply to you. https://hifiheaven.net/shop/Vincent-K-35-Silver-Tube-Integrated-Amplifier-Used The other is the even nicer Rita 880s that maybe ticks all of your boxes. I actually did buy this one a couple months ago, but it is a heavy sucker (over 100 pounds) and got damaged in shipping so I never got to hear it. https://www.dagogo.com/grant-fidelity-reference-system-review/ |
I recently swapped out a PS Audio BHK pre and BHK 300's for a C2700 and MC611's. I was able to home audition the gear side by side. The BHK stuff is quite good, but the MAC is a definite upgrade in my system. More authoritative bass and mid-bass, More detail throughout the spectrum and harmonics to die for. Sometimes the BHK 300's would seem strained and thin out when played loud. No such issue with the 611's, effortless at volume with no fatigue. To the OP, not exactly info you were looking for but wanted to share my McIntosh experience. |