I have dedicated audio room 14.5x20.5x9 ft. Currently have Marantz Reference CD/Intergrated paired to Magnepan 1.7's with REL T-7 subs. For the vast majority of music I love this system. The only nit pick is that it is lacking/limited in covering say below 35 hz or so. For the first time actually buzzed the panel with an organ sacd. Bummer. Thought of upgrading subs to rythmicks but then I will need to high pass the 1.7's. Really don't want to deal with that approach.
Enter the Double Impacts. Many interesting things here. Would certainly have a different set of strengths here. Dynamics, claimed bottom octave coverage in one package, suspect a good match to current electronics.
I've read all the threads here so we do not need to rehash that. Just wondering if others out there have FIRST HAND experience with these or other Tekton speakers
I suppose the builder has every right to do what he wants and to not share. It is certainly reasonable not to. It is his speaker and his design. I am OK with that actually. Not sure I would want to give up my secret sauce.
However, my post is to bring to light the fact that not all our DIs sound identical . They don’t. We need to keep that in mind when reading comments. Perhaps the design has now settled down and all sets are pretty much the same. I personally think these sorts of changes should have been sorted out prior to introduction. “Fine” tuning slightly after intro is fine and common.
@grannyring I would have second thoughts about posting as well but the fact is these are great speakers AND there are anomalies that WE, the consumer, are trying to understand. In addition, and this is kind of big, these speakers are being recommended by Agon members as something special and yet we seem to have different versions of the seemingly same product and I find that disconcerting. I guess it is then fair to compare notes to see how the XO's, as well as wiring diagrams, differ from speaker to speaker.
@greg22lz I am noticing more and more that the mods are very heavy handed with regards to removing posts. Where can I find the terms of service and what is considered a violation? Seems like the decisions are very arbitrary.
Thanks Greg. Cost has nothing to do with these changes. These changes are for the net Sonic result only. Here is what I have found on the DI speaker.
I have debated in my mind if I should share this next point. I do not want to cause the builder any problems as I have spoken to him once and he seems like a passionate fellow audiophile. However, I feel it must be shared as this community continues to share experiences with the DI speaker. The fact is we are hearing different versions of this speaker. No way we can share our evaluations of the same speaker. Fact is we are hearing different versions as I will unpack shortly. There are pretty diverse crossover designs and crossover points in owners speakers. Which one do you have? Which one was reviewed by Terry and others? Don’t know. But I do know they will most certainly sound different.
I know the first set I heard had an obvious emphasis in the upper mids/highs and presence area. I commented on this in this thread. The second pair I heard, and now own, did not display this personality. Actually, my set seemed more balanced top to bottom. Was it the gear? The room? Well, these always plays a role, but this difference seemed to me to be beyond that.
I have had the opportunity to see what is inside of three different DI speakers and can tell you the XO design differs substantially in each one. The bass crossover is constant and I am referring only to the mids and highs - the upper portion of the speaker. My speaker was built in August and I have shared diagram of the highs/mid board already. The other two speakers are a couple of months older.
I wont share the specifics so as to bore you or get lost in the weeds, but will share enough to make the point. The capacitor value on the 6.5 inch mids varies over 100% speaker to speaker with the same value inductor in each set. Yes this means those drivers are playing differing frequencies. The cap values on the center tweeter and outer ring of 6 tweeters varies over 100% set to set. The number of inductors and resistor values differ from set to set on the tweeter array. The wiring scheme of the array also differs in the three sets. The bottom line is the various speaker arrays will sound different.
I understand fine tuning a design over time, but this seems beyond that? You decide for yourself on that point. My points are these;
1) Understand when someone says they feel the speaker is a tad thin sounding or a tad too brilliant and immediate, they may be hearing a slightly different design. Whatever comments are being made are reflective of that generation of DI. I am not sure what base is for this speaker.
2) I would like to know what the builder has settled on now. Can we expect more changes beyond some tiny adjustments. The differences I saw are not tiny.
Wiithout being flippant I am asking for the real DI speaker to stand up. Some ears will hear these differences as glaring while others will find them slight. I am sure they all sound good and don’t question that. However, we do need to know our DIs differ and some of our evaluations and comments may be born out of these differences.
I understand that the net result of these varying Crossover designs can still deliver similar, not identical, sound. I am sure the builder aims for that. However, I am also sure they do deliver sonic differences as why else would the builder keep tweaking if not for fine tuning and improvement.
@grannyring I think your comment opens the door to so many questions and for sure they really should be asked. Which speaker DID Terry review? what was the XO design and why has it changed since then? How does one really know what they are purchasing from TD if the design and parts keep changing. Were Terry’s DI’s and improved version that others do not have? Is Eric at TD still changing his design for the better or looking for cheaper ways to accomplish the same thing? Is this a bait and switch scheme? I am not a speaker designer, nor an EE, but I would like to see consistency in this product. How will this affect the resale? Which speaker config do I have? Maybe Eric @tektondesign would like to comment to prevent further speculation? Greg
@ grannyring that was my taked on foil inductors too. I had to zobel it to deal with its internal capacitance. Easiest, of course, to just buy a less expensive coil that does not do that. Live and learn.
@ charles1dad It's been my personal experience that solen tend to sound "misty" and just plain off to me compared to other good, cost effective, film caps. I don't like using them. A guy that worked in the capacitor building business once told me what was going on, but I have long since forgotten what the explanation was. Old age is a bitch.
I would not use a foil coil 😁on the DI array as they tend to be a tad more bright and brilliant. To my ear this would not be a good recipe for the DI. Actually the Solen Perfect Lay coils would be a wonderful choice.
@fetguy I looked at units like these, but I am not sure they are as accurate as I would like? I know a guy with the best testing/measurement gear and expert at driver and speaker design. I will use him. Thanks for the link however!
@jcarcopo. Sorry you feel this way. The improvement was not slight, but transformative for me. Cost me far less than the SE version and I am confident they at least compete with the SE. Most confident. Also, think about it this way. If you hold to your thought, then the amp or preamp, or source, or anything in front of the drivers really would not matter or be worth upgrading. We know this is not true of the DI speaker.
Hi jacarcopo, I can’t speak specifically about crossover modification in the Double Impacts but I do trust Bill’s (Grannyring) listening impressions and judgement. I can tell you that in my speakers replacing the stock Solen tweeter capacitor with the Duelund CAST copper foil was a very noticeable and worthwhile upgrade. Those tweeter caps do matter.
The sound quality with the Solen was very good I’ll admit. However with the Duelund CAST the sound elevated to truly superb level. Charles
@ grannyring...here, this is what you need to find the inductance values of the inductors. This is much less than the cost of ONE mundorf capacitor. http://www.ebay.com/bhp/inductance-meter
I just can’t justify the cost or quantify the measureable improvements of using uber expensive capacitor replacements in the DI’s crossover over any affordable tweeter’s gross distortion which would swamp any improvement by orders of magnitude.
"the transducer centers are a 1.5ft from the side walls and 2.5ft from the rear wall."
Since the DI speakers are 12" wide and ~18" deep, going from the transducer centers that would mean you have a about a foot to the side walls from speaker edge and a foot to the front wall (wall behind speakers and in front of the listener) from the back of the speaker.
If this is right, essentially, the speakers would be corner loaded. In such a setup I believe that you preferred a class D amp over a tube amp.
Thanks for sharing! Mike Audio Archon - Tekton dealer
ozzy, Eric answers until about 12:00 or 1:00, Karma covers the 12:00 + and the rest of the day. They will take your order but if you wish to speak to Eric try mornings. He seems like a great guy to me. Had a couple of conversations with him and he really is enthusiastic about his work. I ordered the standard low gloss black and had them in 4 days. Speaker grills? Tuesday, in two days, 60 days from when I received my speakers. Since I am a self employed craftsman I absolutely understand Eric’s position. Greg
If iam in your place Ozzy I will not stop, until I get one of their speakers, I almost did not order because of Audiozen thread, I finally realize the issue are minors, when I heard the Impact monitor , I forgot I read Audiozen thread...they are that good....with your system Tekton more likely you will get good result....I felt bless when I heard them, I spend too much time listening now...I only have 20 hrs on them...
Thanks for the reply. The 3 emails that I sent have been over the last 2 weeks. So, it looks like I won’t be getting a reply. I hate it when companies cannot perform the simplest courtesy of replying to an email. Makes me wonder if the lack of response is indicative of how they handle customers problems. But, I will try to call next week.
Ozzy just call Karma they are too busy, I talked to them Thursday last week, I received my speakers Nov 2, just keep calling, Eric does answer email, it depends how busy He is.the latest he answer my email is two days, If you have a question , Teajay might be able to answer it.
Hi all - just wanted to FYI that I’m now using Rythmik servo subs with my Impact Monitors with excellent results. I’ve added pictures to my system page if you want to see them. Thanks.
Well what do know, I stand corrected. Room corrected that is. This time it's the Double Impacts and a Raven Blackhawk integrated with a Live Dirac PC. Still sounds much better corrected. The comparision will be much more meaningful with the bass traps and panels that are soon to arrive.
I'll follow your lead Bullitt and try the DI's closer to the wall. I'm guessing this is done to clean up the low frequency SBIR and ease the job for wideband room correction.
@lpretiring I don't feel there is too much low end with no correction. But I was not using correction even before the Lyngdorf in stereo mode. So that wouldn't be a change. The Lyngdorf isn't noticeably changing the level low end when correcting either. My assumption is that it seems to "think" it's pretty close. But we all have our preferred room curve. Corrected or uncorrected the low end is much tighter and well defined now. It seems to control the subs better. evolvist, thanks for the kind words. I'm pretty sure you'll see a definite improvement when you hear the Lyngdorf vs the old front end.
evolvist, of course you're welcome to come by. I got the impression you had auditioned the Lyngdorf and didn't like it. But if you want to hear it with the DIs, that's great. I also have absorption panels we can play with in the room if you want to do that. I don't think we could do the ceiling would need some velcro up there :-) is going to happen, but floor/walls would be no problem.
I really liked the Lyngdorf when I had it on audition.The only reason I didn't choose it was because I had bought into the Chord philosophy at the time, but then their business model proved to dig for cash to back up that philosophy. Also, at the time, I was still in between headphone and speaker listening, leaning more to the headphone side of things, and the Chord DAVE has a headphone section that is second to none. Now that I've gotten away from USB, however, I'm not sure if there is any turned back.
That said, for the price/performance the Lyngdorf was at the top of the list. I'm glad to hear that you went that direction.
I just want to let everyone in here know that when Bob says he's getting a great sound with the Lyngdorf, you can trust his ears. Even going to what he had in his old front end, Bob had managed to turn a proper home theater room (and a very nice one, at that), into a fantastic two-channel room, as well.It's not often that I've heard people do both.
Now I'm giddy to hear the magic he has going on in there now.
@david_ten - I think when people hear the Lyngdorf in their systems, and that well implemented Class D kicks in, the amp section, itself, imparts a slight warmth that sounds very tube-ish, very analog. This is what the Lyngdorf is tuned to. It's also what the D-Sonic Class D amps are tuned to, with rave reviews.
Think about this. I emailed back and forth with the Lyngdorf, and the designer (I can;t remember his name at the moment) said that he could have implemented Class A/B into the design, with just a little bit larger chassis and heatsink on both sides. It wasn't for aesthetic reasons that he didn't go that route. He went the rout that he did because he was able to tune the gear to capture a more analog sound, as well as he thinks Class D is the future.
He might be right. We're hearing about it all over this thread.
evolvist, of course you're welcome to come by. I got the impression you had auditioned the Lyngdorf and didn't like it. But if you want to hear it with the DIs, that's great. I also have absorption panels we can play with in the room if you want to do that. I don't think we could do the ceiling would need some velcro up there :-) is going to happen, but floor/walls would be no problem.
My room is a HT with bass traps and some absorption on the front wall. I put additional panels in the room in "traditional" locations. First reflections, etc. But it worked better without them. As stated earlier, my DIs are near the corners in front of bass traps. All this done prior to testing the Lyngdorf. The room is rectangular with a sloping, peaked ceiling and a ceiling drop at the rear where the projector is mounted.
Lyngdorf actually recommends you place your speakers in corners and the sub centered against the front wall and then use RoomPerfect to make it work. Perfect for me with my HT setup.
My main source is my PC Music server feeding USB to the 2170 optional USB module. The signal path is deathly quiet. The LTA was almost as quiet. The Odyssey was noisy as hell in comparison to either of those. I was told that was normal for their products. Even my Denon HT Receiver made less noise than the Odyssey stuff.
Wife: " You'r Mom wants to know something nice you might like for your birthday." Me: "How about some Mundorf 100uf caps. Matched pairs would be best :)."
With many well respected members choosing the Lyngdorf system approach, I would appreciate knowing the type of room environments the Lyngdorf entered. Is your room dedicated to audio, or multi purpose? Professional, or custom room acoustics or standard room furnishings, and if room acoustics to what extent? Is your room a simpler to control rectangular room or complicated dimensions with staircases, and multiple rooms? And, prior to Lyngdorf were poor reflective materials such as glass minimized to improve the environment?
While I'm loving the sound of my DI's driven with tubes and will most likely stick with them for a while, the simplistic all in one Lyngdorf solution is so very intriguing. I also appreciate its understated design. It's something I definitely need to try in my system. Grannyring's system with his modded DI's and Lyngdorf sounds like a steal.....offering state of the art sound for a total cost of less than $10k plus a source? What are most of you Lyngdorf users using as a source? Anyone using the Lyngdorf cd transport?
While ive gone the tube route, I appreciate hearing the good results others are having with SS or SS with tubes. It's great having so many viable options.
Thanks to grannyring I've been bitten by the diy bug now! It may take me months to properly research and plan but I'm thinking I'll be re-doing the crossovers and internal wiring on my DI SE's eventually. Question for grannyring, Tekton used to offer Mundorf silver oil caps as an upgrade, if I can get my DI SE's upgraded with them do you think it will be a decent improvement? It might help tide me over until I figure out and develop the confidence I need to mod them.
David ten modifications is nice..only if done right...I have five sets of amps 2 tubes viva 300b, art audio concierto, 2mono Mf 550, Norh mono 200 mono, as well, so for now they are giving my expensive speakers a fight out of the box...so hopefully one of the amps will give more magic,,,will see...and no mod needed I like them the way it is...
@bullitt5094 Bob, thanks for the clarification. When I read your first major post on the Lyngdorf it read, at least to me, that you preferred the 2170 with the room correction off...which is what prompted my confusion and therefore my questions.
To my eyes, the TDAI 2170 looks very nice. I appreciate the Danish understatement and minimalism and functionality all well displayed in one box.
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