Tariffs and sky high audio prices.


With the Chinese tariffs taking hold on 100% of the imports and maybe even on Mexico forthcoming, the audio industry is going to see another big jump in their sky high prices. Anyone making purchases ASAP to get lower prices from existing inventory before post tariff products enter the marketplace?
tubelvr1

Showing 17 responses by millercarbon

NPC bg1968 drones:
It will never cease to amaze me that any man could have an ounce of respect for another man that is accused by 23 women of sexual assault and casually strolling through dressing rooms of naked Beauty Pagent Contestants.


Well me, I don't know how any man expects anyone to have an ounce of respect for him, or even how he can respect himself, if he thinks you lose respect just for being accused. In my world you lose respect not for being accused but for being guilty. In fact in my world its the one falsely accused who stands up against the lies with his head held high who earns the most respect of all.

That would be Trump. I follow this stuff closely. Every single one of those times the accuser turns out to have lied. A few of them hilariously so. Like the lady who swore she sat next to Trump as he molested her on an international flight. All across the Atlantic Trump was groping her. Gosh that Trump, what a Svengali, mind control or something kept her from saying a word the whole time. Until the story comes out, guy in London reads it, exposes the whole thing as a lie. Turns out he was there on the same flight and gosh too bad for her story the seating configuration is totally inconsistent with her story. Something a whole bunch of bloggers easily confirmed. 

But gosh, the owner having access to the locker room. And telling Howard Stern about it! Caught on mike admitting, "But no, I've been very good." 

Sounds like grounds for impeachment to me. You go, girl.


2psyop opines:
When are people going to confront the fact that the POTUS does not know what he is doing???
POTUS threatened tariffs and within a week Mexico sends 6000 troops to secure their southern border. Sent a few tweets and within a few weeks no more North Korean missiles. Obama btw said this would be his biggest challenge. Maybe for Obama. Not Trump.

All those American manufacturing jobs were supposed to be gone forever. Just last week 6500 more coming back to Detroit. On top of tens of thousands already. Lowest unemployment rate ever for blacks, hispanics, women, the disabled and veterans.

Look up #walkaway to learn about all the gays and minorities fleeing the democrat party after listening to Trump. Watch Black Conservative Patriot on YouTube then go catch any of the dozens of similar channels that have popped up the last few years.

In 2016 Trump took about 7% of the black vote. If you only listen to the fake news you’ll snicker with glee. When in fact the reality is democrats require 97% of the black vote to win at the national level. NAACP currently has Trump polling over 20% black support. Between the lowest black unemployment ever, his legal reforms and pushing issues like charter schools that have a lot of support in the black community, not to mention growing popularity of supporters like Diamond and Silk and Candace Owens, its hard to see anything other than even more black support going forward.

When China tried to make last minute changes Trump responded so fast and immediately even democrats supported him. Which come to think of it is exactly what happened when NKorea tried to pull a fast one on him. Ditto Pelosi and Schumer when they tried to roll him, only to find the media there with their cameras so all they could do was sputter while Trump got to keep repeating transparency. That was the first time. Second time recently he walked right out on them straight to the Rose Garden where he announced what happened, beating them to the news cycle.

Fired Comey. Got Kavanaugh confirmed. Sessions gone, replaced with Barr. On and on and freaking on. I could go on typing all day, still hardly even make a dent in all the stuff he has done right.

Everyone as they say is entitled to their own opinion. For sure you and some others (a small but very noisy minority) aren’t happy at all that Trump is winning. You can say POTUS doesn’t know what he’s doing. Say it all day long if you want. But you might want to consider, the longer you keep saying something at odds with reality, the more credibility you lose.
ghasley writes:

Right. Like I am gonna copy that all over again here. As if.

Because, thing is, there was a whole laundry list of tangible accomplishments- regulations slashed, judges appointed, people put to work, jobs created. Not a one of which is being challenged or disputed. 

Then even more shocking, the president and Secty of State- Obama and Clinton- former CIA head Brennan, former FBI head Comey, are charged with a coup attempt. Trying to overturn an American election. Apparently now this is so uncontroversial a topic we can skip right past that to making George Washington jokes.

At least we know these points are now so widely known and well established even people who should want to argue know better.

Good. Progress. Now if only they can admit it to themselves.
 
All I'm saying is that I don't mind paying tariffs on Chinese goods if that's what it takes to level the playing field with balanced trade agreements that give American factory workers a competitive chance.


Bingo! Free trade isn't really free when one side has to comply with protecting the snail darter while the other is free to belch out enough chemicals to light a river on fire. Is there a minimum wage in China? To pick just one item from one volume from the library of regulations US businesses must comply with. 

We can't, nor should we, tell other countries what laws they must have to be on equal terms. But we sure can make them pay a tax if they aren't. Its only fair.
clearthink:
It is has been demonstrated that the American Chief Executive (President) has successfully executed at least one phase of his tariff plan, policy, and strategy with the successful conclusion of discussions and negotiations with Mexico who has now fully complied with the terms, conditions, and requirements set forth by your CEO. This must annoy, confound, or disturb his "critics" and of course the "experts" hear who have so disrespectfully disputed the unqualified achievemnts, success, and accomplishments of the most successful CEO (President) that the US has ever had at least in recent years. Trump wisely, expertly, and successfully used the tools available to him and he is showing the truth that for him "trade wars are easy to win" and I would fully expect Americans to have faith in his abilities to continue to plan, complete, and execute his winning strategy.


Pretty good. Pretty good. Except:
the unqualified achievemnts, success, and accomplishments of the most successful CEO (President) that the US has ever had at least in recent years.


Surely you meant to say, "EVER!"

Already barely halfway through just his first term, and dogged by an opposition party with nothing to do but obstruct, and a media so biased there are entire networks devoted to running him out of office, harassed the whole time for what we now know to be baseless charges, Trump has nevertheless already appointed record numbers of judges, slashed record amounts of growth-stifling regulations, gotten the US out of more crappy agreements (Paris climate, top of the list), and achieved the lowest unemployment rates EVER for blacks, hispanics, women, the disabled, and veterans. The Greatest President Ever has accomplished so much even a news junkie like me can hardly keep up with it all!

Now its early on, he still has 6 more good years to go, but already he is well into what history will show to be his greatest accomplishment, draining the swamp. Brennan is out. Comey is out. The best AG this country has had, at least in my lifetime, already has the countries best most experienced attorney hard at work and based on just what's come out so far I think we can look forward to a handful (at least) doing the perp walk and doing serious time.

In short ladies and gentlemen these people from Obama and Clinton and Brennan on down to Strzok and Page were involved in a coup attempt against a sitting US president. The coup failed. Trump has the courage to not only confront this, but say plainly to the people, "We have to make sure this never happens again."

The man had the perfect life, running a business he loved, with more money than he could ever spend. He sacrificed all that putting the nation first. The last one to do anything comparable was George Washington. 






Perfect should not be the enemy of good, ghasley. So don't let it be.
especially if you are bashing the President of the United States.


WOO HOO!!!

Please take the topic back to audio or this thread will be closed.


My pleasure!
The thing about American made audio components, an awful lot of the best stuff in the world is made right here. Synergistic, VPI, McCormack, Graham, just a few that come to mind.

Not that the rest of the world doesn't make some damn fine gear too. But the subject was tariffs. And I could be mistaken but it sure seems like if we are talking tariffs then we're talking pretty much China. And if we're talking China then we're no longer talking about anything having to do with expertise.

All those American companies, they didn't just build it here. They designed it here. But then when it comes time to manufacture some- not all, some- find if what they need to have done is mindless enough then they can have it done more cheaply elsewhere.

Most of those other places though, they aren't cheap because they are so much more productive. China is not like Germany. They don't have a workforce so uber educated and skilled they can not only design but also build a Porsche. No. What they have is cheap mostly unskilled to lower skilled labor. Cheap labor. 

Which is why tariffs are good. Good for the US. Good for China, too.

Because, in the US, raising the price of imports makes it less advantageous to off-shore jobs, in other words incentivizes keeping those jobs right here where they benefit Americans. Americans who can then afford to buy more high end audio.

But tariffs also benefit China. One effect of tariffs is to force a higher selling price here. The only way those products will justify the higher price is by being better. That means raising quality. That means being more productive. Either way it means incentivizing the Chinese to become even more skilled.

Not sure if people know this, even though they do advertise it, but Synergistic Research builds all their products right here in the USA. Skilled American workers. Just in the last week I have totally by accident run across two people who worked there. These are real jobs. Jobs that pay enough to live on. Not live a life of subsistence crammed into bunk beds one floor up from the factory, which is how the workers who built my Melody integrated amp live. The guys I talked to, they don't work there now. They probably have much better jobs now. Just like the Chinese will some day. Thanks in part to our tariffs. 

I want to come back to something ghasley said:

The dollar is the world’s reserve currency because oil is traded in US dollars. Also, ask England what it’s like to be the world’s FORMER reserve currency. If we think it can’t happen, it’s likely already happening.

Correct. Good point about England. And yes, it is indeed happening. Right before our eyes.

Prior to WWII the world was on a gold standard. The meaning of that is even more distorted than globalist so for the sake of clarity let me explain exactly what that means.

The gold standard I am talking about was a voluntary agreement between nations to settle their trade balances in gold. Most countries at the time used silver and gold coins within their borders. But even if they did not they would have to settle trade deficits or surpluses with other countries by physically shipping gold bullion.

Naturally, any nation running a big trade surplus was taking in and accumulating more gold. As the gold available to buy imported goods becomes more plentiful then you could buy more imports, which to the extent that happens there goes your excess gold. Meanwhile, any nation running a trade deficit would be in danger of running out of gold. As the gold available to buy imported goods became more scarce the motivation to produce at home became greater, and more cost-effective. With no one able to create gold artificially the system is beautifully balanced, self-adjusting, and voluntary.

The US accumulated some 24,000 tons of gold. Financially, militarily, and in pretty much every other way the US emerged after WWII the strongest country. The world began trading in dollars- except not really dollars, as after 1913 the currency went from gold and silver to Federal Reserve Notes.

A crucial distinction. Because while the formerly used gold could only be produced by enormous effort finding, digging, refining, the new counterfeit FRN can be created at almost no cost on a printing press. Boggles my mind people don’t comprehend the significance. This marked the beginning of perpetual US deficit spending.

By the 1970’s the world had been accumulating trade surpluses with the US and redeeming our paper FRN’s for gold bullion to the point where US gold had dwindled from 24,000 to only about 8,000 tons. Paper you can print but gold you have to dig. Faced with the all too present reality of the US running out of gold Nixon took the "temporary emergency" measure of suspending gold convertibility.

Watch the YouTube video. Blames it on traders. Right. Politicians and bankers were to blame. Each in equal measure. Okay mostly the bankers. Whatever. Beginning of the end. Then go watch the Charles De Gaulle address.

With that history now finally we get to ghasley’s remark. No longer backed by gold the US needed something or the world would abandon dollars. If that happens, who needs dollars, they all come back home. Inflation skyrockets. Economic disaster. The US imperative was to create global demand for dollars.

The deal was the US would agree to protect Saudi Arabia with all our military might if the Saudi’s would require that oil be paid for with FRNs. This new global demand assured the US would be able to deficit spend for decades at a level that would otherwise have been massively hyperinflationary.

This is where the term petro-dollar comes from. With every country depending on oil that can only be bought with dollars they all had no choice but to save them. The world reserve currency was born.

Again, for those who missed my earlier post, the vital national interest Saddam Hussein threatened was to sell oil for Euro and not dollars. Iran, same deal. Now China. Not only that, but more countries are doing more trade directly, bypassing the dollar. Highly recommend people who want to follow and understand what is going on bypass the fake news and get in the habit of following news sites like zerohedge.com as you will see hardly a week goes by without some development in this area.

The magnitude of these markets is such that even as fast as new developments occur we are still a long ways from the inevitable hyperinflationary collapse. But it is, as ghasley says, already happening.










Okay, I think I see the confusion now. You guys seem to think globalist is the opposite of isolationist. Like the minute you do or even think about anything outside your own borders you're a globalist. Totally missing the point.

Read the definitions again. Two key elements: advocates; and "on a global basis."

Where has Trump ever advocated doing anything "on a global basis"? Not a day goes by he hasn't repeated that he's working in the best interest of America. For American's. Of course at any given time he can be talking about any country on the planet. Duh. That is not the point. If it was then the term would lose all meaning.

Which on that score there's actually a really fascinating reason why you guys so often misuse language in a way that is imprecise and blurs reality.

Maybe we get to that one later. For now, again, it should be obvious Trump is the opposite of globalist. Trump is the anti-globalist. And it would be nice to know that fact is acknowledged.
Trump has business interests in Ireland, Scotland, Panama, Canada, Turkey, South Korea, United Arab Emirates, India, Russia and quite possibly, a few more than publicly stated.


Okay. Well then we have different definitions of globalist. My understanding of globalist is one who is working towards the goal of one world government. You seem to think having private business interests internationally makes one a globalist.

In this case it would seem I get the better of the argument. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/globalism
Would you consider revising your previous statement? And endeavor to be more accurate in your use of language going forward?


Yes well it is the dyed in the wool globalist who got us out of the globalist Paris climate accord, and NAFTA, and supports Brexit, is dead set against open borders and is in both word and deed a staunch defender of national sovereignty. He's given a number of speeches on the subject going at least as far back as the campaign. For thirty years at least his every public comment on the subject is consistent. Even his campaign slogan, Make America Great Again- America. Not the globe. America.

His action is consistent with his words.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But, as the saying goes, not their own facts. Sorry if that strikes you as snide, but it really is tiresome, all the innuendo and shifting and dodging.

Do you have any facts to back up your opinion that Trump is a globalist?
Its real easy, and simplistic, to look at China and see a juggernaut destined to overtake the US, if indeed it hasn't already done so. It really is a simplistic view. I'm not big on the logical fallacy of the appeal to authority (like quoting a Nobel laureate in lieu of actual argumentation) but I would recommend anyone interested pick up a book or watch a few videos with James Rickards or (if you think you have the financial chops) Kyle Bass.

First off neither China nor anyone else can just sell their Treasuries. The Treasury market is controlled by the Fed. (This fact like everything else I am saying is easily verifiable. DYODD.) Besides, even if they did, the way the bond market works is pretty much like everything else- you go to sell a lot, that sends the supply up and the price down. China can only sell so much without driving the price down. Would we take a hit? Sure. Compared to the hit China would take? Ha. They'd be screwed. And they know it, too.

I really cannot recommend enough - THINK don't just regurgitate!

Seriously. Most of what's out there is fake news. THINK! DYODD!

China has had a one child policy for decades. Combined with their preference for boys, China has a very VERY big demographic problem. Lots of single men. And that's just the tip of the demographic iceberg. As the massive legacy population grows older, One Child has left behind a huge drop-off, probably the worst in the world.

China is also a command and control economy. Very inefficient. Search the web for ghost cities. Entire cities- apartments, stores, - enough for millions of people, just sitting vacant. Go watch the videos on their construction quality. Built crazy fast, they crumble just as fast. There's tons of videos and stories. Check em out. DYODD!

Its one saving grace has been the lack of regulation that has allowed near unfettered private enterprise. This is why we see all these Chinese billionaires. Its not that they are so much better or smarter. Its that China allows them to do pretty much whatever they want (Permits? We don't need no stinking permits! Piracy? That's our business model!), and to keep pretty much whatever they can earn.

Is China hoarding gold? Hell yeah. Read your history. Unlike Americans who have never experienced hyperinflation the Chinese have a long history of paper money (possibly invented there) being hyper inflated to nothing. People who talk about the long history of China never seem to have learned this part of it. 

Opium war. Heard of it? British sent warships, forced Chinese to accept opium instead of silver for payment in trade. If China ever acts like its got a great big chip on it shoulder, brother, they do.

Soon as they get some money they buy some gold. Soon as they get a lot of money they get it OUT OF THE COUNTRY! Why, if China is so great, would they do that? Because they know China has no rule of law and a long history of monetary debasement. 

No rule of law. No faith in the currency. Not to mention a population so spied upon and controlled they already have millions who can't take a plane because the facial recognition software caught them stepping off the curb before the light changed. Not exactly ingredients for prosperity.

One more, as if the above aren't enough. Math. Sorry. But do the math. Yes China (and Russia, and Iran, and a bunch of other countries) are working diligently on establishing direct currency exchange outside the dollar. This is the REAL reason behind all the hoo haw about Russia, etc. But again, do the math. The USD market is beyond trillions. With derivatives it is into the quadrillions. Last I saw the derivatives market was 15 quadrillion, notional. Its truly astronomical. The Treasury bond market, just the T-bill part of it. is so vast as to be beyond their reach any time soon.

Almost forgot! Debt! Every country in the world is up to their eyeballs in it. And make no mistake- debt is not a problem. Problems have solutions! When you are in a plane and the pilot collapses you have a problem. When you are falling from the plane without a parachute then my friend you are in a predicament. Globally and locally, debt is a predicament! (Illinois, anyone? Anyone? Beuller?)

There is a range of debt to GDP that has been studied in many countries and shown that once debt reaches 105% of GDP its Game Over. Going by memory so could be 106, could be 110, but its in there somewhere. Like I said DYODD. Point is, from then on there's no coming back. No country of hundreds studied went anywhere from there but hyperinflation. Weimar Germany, Zimbabwe, Venezuela- those are just the ones you probably know about. There's a lot more. DYODD? Okay I will do this one for free: 28 countries just in the last 25 years!http://www.munknee.com/21-countries-have-experienced-hyperinflation-in-last-25-years-is-the-u-s-next...


So here's the thing. The US is right there. Depending on how you  measure we are right there or a just over the line. But guess what? China is a whole lot worse!

For sure China is a serious global competitor and not to be taken lightly. The way things were going until 16 we were on the road to being a wholly owned subsidiary of China, Inc. Not any more.

Just a little perspective. DYODD.


Good one, Frank!

Another clue to what is really causing all this inflation- fiat currency -

Prior to 1964, back when you could buy a gallon of gas for a dime or so, that dime was minted out of silver. Not pure silver, but still. Flash forward to today, gallon of gas more like $3 or 30 times as much. But you can still buy it with a dime. It just has to be one of those pre-1964 dimes. Because of the silver in the dime it has pretty much retained its purchasing power.

I can even recall driving by a gas station advertising ten cents a gallon, and a restaurant selling cheeseburgers for a quarter- in both cases when paid for with pre-1964 coin.

Here’s a nifty quote for anyone still thinks Krugman has a clue:

By 2005 or so it will become clear that the Internet’s impact on the economy has been no greater than the fax machine’s.
- Paul Krugman


As Bugs Bunny used to say, what a maroon!
The Federal Reserve was created in 1913. Prior to that, if you can be bothered to look up the facts, there was essentially zero inflation in the US. Pretty sure you will find the word did not even exist, at least not in the monetary sense. Why would it? You cannot inflate a currency when it is minted from solid metal that can only be created by human effort digging it up, refining, coining.

Once the Fed was created what happened? Immediately we had the Roaring Twenties. For the first time we had inflation. Real inflation. The slogan, "What we need is a good ten cent cigar" came about because people wanted a return to the low stable prices that had been the norm prior to the Fed.

It was the banksters loose money policies that created the Roaring Twenties, and the Feds monetary measures that created the Great Depression. Which by the way was a deflation. Two things, inflation and deflation, the US had never really experienced, in peace time, prior to the Fed.

Paul Krugman won a Nobel Prize in Economics, about which it helps to know a couple things. One, its not a Nobel Prize. The so-called nobel prize in economics was established in 1968 by the Riksbank, the central bank of Sweden.

Get it? The banksters hi-jacked the Nobel imprimatur, paid for their own prize, to promote their own interests. Its a crock.

Which explains Paul Krugman being such a load of you know what. Hard to think of a more disgraced excuse of an economist or one who has gotten more things more wrong more widely published.

Aside from that, all the best!
People are really clever, creative, greedy and stingy. All you have to do is let them trade among themselves and over time you get a lot more really good stuff at lower and lower prices. Exactly what happened over the roughly 100 years of sound money due to the gold standard.

Prices, like I already said, were remarkably stable in the US for 300 years. Its a fact. You could look it up. The track record was not perfectly flat. A few wars created some inflationary spikes when paper money was created to fund the wars. But standard items like a bushel of corn or wheat were virtually the exact same price at the end as at the beginning, 1600 to 1900.

Seriously people. Its a fact. You could look it up. Really. You should.

Then consider how many tariffs, and a lot bigger ones, were enacted back then. So drop the ideas mentioned. They are contradicted by the facts of history.

Tariffs in the current circumstances are wonderful. Not perfect. Nothing ever is. But the downsides are all relatively small and limited and short term while the upsides are all big and widespread and long term. Already we are seeing more investment and hiring. Only gonna get better the longer it goes on.

This same exact thing happened back in Colonial America. Naysayers will have to contend with the reality of how beneficial tariffs were then.

So why do prices rise then? Because instead of money we have debt. Pull a bill out of your wallet, if you even have one, and look at it. Federal Reserve Note, it says. Well, its private, not Federal. There are no reserves. And do you know what a note is? Its a loan. When you buy a house you sign a note. A promise to pay. A mortgage. The literal translation of which is "death pledge."

So, in other words, a Federal Reserve Note is an IOU. Which if you visit any coin store or look on-line its interesting to follow the history of this fake currency as over the years it deteriorates from being coined of actual gold or silver bullion to paper with a literal claim on those metals to a promise to be exchanged to .... nothing. Today it is not even exchangeable for anything. The "dollar" is not a dollar. And the Federal Reserve Note is an IOU

An IOU what? An IOU NOTHING!

There’s the crime at the root of it all.
rodman99999 writes:
The only reason we have an economy; the US Dollar is currently the world’s standard currency. Too bad, it’s backed by nothing but trust that we can repay the debts, incurred by the government and owed by every American citizen, whether they’re aware it’s owed or not. China has been hoarding gold for decades(if not centuries) and it’s currency/economy is backed by gold. The US Dollar is backed by imagination("fiat money"). Just wait, ’til the rest of the world catches on, the Juan takes center stage in the world economy and renders your, "money" worthless. Keep your eyes open/coming soon, to a neighborhood near YOU(unfortunately/hope I’m wrong)!


A lot of which is correct and shows he's paying attention. Of course its not the "only" reason we have an economy. Go back far enough, to the beginning, it was tariffs that made British and other imported goods more expensive, that in turn made domestic goods more profitable and led to decades of the strongest economic growth the US has ever had. With zero inflation too, I might add. (The cost of a bushel of corn was the same from the 1600's for 300 years! What came 300 years later? The Fed was created in 1913.)

Lamestream media does such a good job delivering fake news that most people see gold as an anachronism and know pretty much nothing about how money works. Even though its hard to see the national interest in pretty much any of the many military actions we've been engaged in without knowing.

One anchor of the USD is the agreement Kissinger worked out with the Saudi's to require payment for oil with USD. This created global demand to suck up the excess supply we created with our deficit spending. All that money creation without the oil payment demand and the US would have seen massive inflation. Instead it was the whole world that got the inflation. When you hear someone say the US exports inflation this is what they're talking about. 

Saddam Hussein started selling his oil for Euros. Can't have that. No more Saddam. We were told one reason. Anyone who understands monetary theory knows the real reason. Now you do too.

The world, and the US, was just fine with Muhammar Qaddafi. Even when he started building nukes, Reagan sends him a message, what's one cruise missile between friends? But then he wanted to launch a gold coin currency for the Arab world. Way too close to home, he got it even worse than Saddam. In the end, so to speak. 

Both these guys by the way held many tons of gold. Gold that somehow disappeared. In spite of their territory being under US military lock-down.

Yeah. Right.

So who are the Bad Guys now? China and Russia. The two countries on the planet adding most consistently to their official gold stores. The two countries working most diligently and cooperatively to move the world towards trade settlement in currencies other than the dollar. China even has the nerve to start conducting actual physical gold bullion settlement in Yuan. 

As far as audio gear goes, it seems to me we will do just fine. We already have some if not most of the world's best high end audio manufacturers. If tariffs drive up the cost of cheap imports it seems to me we can look forward to even more great gear being made where it should be, right here in America.