I installed a SR RED Quantum fuse in my ARC REF-3 preamp a few days ago, replacing an older high end fuse. Uhh ... for a hundred bucks, this little baby is well worth the cost. There was an immediate improvement upon installation, but now that its broken in (yes, no kidding), its quite remarkable. A tightening of the focus, a more solid image, and most important of all for my tastes, a deeper appreciation for the organic sound of the instruments. Damn! ... cellos sound great! Much improved attack on pianos. More humanistic on vocals. Bowed bass goes down forever. Next move? .... I'm doing the entire system with these fuses. One at a time though just to gauge the improvement in each piece of equipment. The REF-75se comes next. I'll report the results as the progression takes place. Stay tuned ...
Any comments from anyone else who has tried these fuses?
To circle back with listening impressions on the Blacks in my DAC/pre: I returned to stock fuses for a few days to re-set my ears and expectations, then last night re-installed the Blacks (in this case with the R side of the fuse meeting incoming current.)
Compared to stock, bass was indeed fuller. Tone density was thicker, but ultimately I do think it came at the cost of detail resolution. With stocks my soundstage was pristine and slightly concave, as in it invited me to listen in. With the Blacks, the stage was wider, and pushed in a convex fashion toward me. But there was less depth, and indeed though I felt closer in space to the instruments in the soundstage, I perceived a little less definition and detail.
I’ll flip direction once more before making a final judgment on these guys. And I’ll repeat that this is all in good fun, and I question none of the great results that so many people are hearing. Just callin’ ’em like I hear ’em.
So even though I am not hearing a difference so far that's two scores now for Synergistic Research in any case 1) 500V rating would appear to denote an unusually rugged and durable product and 2) good customer service.
Its to be expected that some will hear differences and some not with many more esoteric products.
So given all that I would say the Red fuses are a sound product possibly worth the investment for some but probably not all. That's not so bad, is it?
Myself, I would probably only buy a fuse from an audio specialty company for a premium only if I hear a clear difference I like. Otherwise, were I to need a fuse, I would probably go with a quality product for much lower cost from a commercial electronics supply house, just like I often end up going to products from companies that deal with pro audio rather than home/high end for effective tweaks at reasonable cost.
I spent about an hour swapping fuses in the arc sp16 and comparing. Also changing fuse direction. I left the quantum sticker thingy off.
So look, the red fuse sounded good. So did the stock fuse that came in the arc sp16 new. If there was a difference it did not jump out at me. Both sounded similarly good with great dynamics big soundstage excellent detail and the whole nine yards. I cannot really attribute anything unique to the red fuse so far.
I listened to 3 very good quality recordings, all lossless flac files ripped to my music server using dbpoweramp: The Mariners Revenge Song by The Decemberists, The William Walton Crown Imperial Coronation March on Mercury Living Presence,. And The Grand Duel by Luis Bacalov from the Kill Bill Pt 1 soundtrack.
System used was Squeezebox Touch to mhdt Constantine DAC to ARC sp16 pre-amp to BelCanto Ref1000m amps to Dynaudio Contour 1.3 mkII speakers. IC from DAC to pre and pre to amp both DNM Reson. Audioquest CV-6 speaker cables to Dynaudios.
OK, my original post was found on another thread. I'll put it back here where it belongs.
Thanks once again to Al once again for locating my missing post. Not sure how it landed there. its possible I updated the wrong Synergistic Thread. I was in a bit of a rush yesterday eve.
I posted yesterday eve and it was apparently deleted within the hour.
I spent a fair amount of time last night carefully comparing and writing the results just to have it deleted.
The fuse was fine but I can't say I heard any clear difference either way.
After a deleted post sharing honest results. I'm not very inclined to invest more time with this at this point. Makes me wonder what's going on with censorship of these forums.
Ozzy: For me the Black fuse in the QOL unit sounded best inserted with the "S" towards the rear of the unit and the printed "R" towards the front of the unit. Not as big of a change as other locations in most ways, but important in ways difficult to describe but easy to experience.
Remember there is a breakin.Big Time. I leave the QOL unit on 24/7. It takes a week to stabilize.
Ok ok My fellow Agoners have convinced me to try the SR Blacks in my Ref 40 and Ref 150. Thanks for the push. Thanks I will order a 6.3A sloblo for the pre and a 8.0A sloblo for the 7. (Thanks Almarg) They are 6.3 x 32mm in size.
I love what I do. In order to do it successfully, one needs the personality traits of a salesman. Compared to engineers ... we are totally nutz!! And you are absolutely correct in that its hell for the wife of an engineer at times .. BUT, every person with an engineering mindset that I've done business with has provided very well for their retirement future and that of their spouses as well through meticulous planning. Salesmen? .... "Hey ... we'll cross that bridge when we get to it." *lol*
I sincerely hope the new fuse works out for you mapman.
I'm come from the (also lucrative) creative, why not outside the box? and why does it have to be a box anyway? side of business world. So I'm really going to just be a fly on the wall and enjoy this one...
"The analysis paralysis syndrome suffered by most of engineering mentality must be hell. "
Good engineers in industry learn to always be on the lookout for analysis paralysis and deal with it effectively as needed to accomplish the task at hand.
Just part of the job. Not hell at all for those who fit the mold.
My wife is the opposite. My engineering mentality for lack of a better term is likely hell for her from time to time but she knows it usually pays off when properly and reasonably applied. She knows for example in the end it pays our bills nicely :^)
"Just because" is not a reason most good engineers will easily default to though.
Heading home soon. I'm planning to get to it later this evening. Stay tuned.....
Please don't take this the wrong way --- no offense is intended. I just find personality types to be very interesting ...and understanding each personality type and the combination of personality types is crucial to my success in business. After all, I am in the people business.
As a person who has earned his living as a 100% commissioned salesman for over 50 years, I've always found the personality type of the engineer, and others of that mindset, to be interesting to say the least. The analysis paralysis syndrome suffered by most of engineering mentality must be hell.
Not dissing engineers here at all. Those who measure 100 times before cutting once are the folks who keep our water running clean, the electro-power plants running ... and airplanes from crashing.
Mapman ... Just stick the new fuse into the fuse holder and enjoy the damned thing already. *lol*
I won’t even ask if anyone knows why the black sounds better than the red or how to decide reliably between the two. :^) Are the blacks also rated to 500V?
Yes, good thing Al is out there. I suspected that the higher voltage rating was OK but needed to do some research to confirm. I read a few misinformed blog threads on other sites that gave me pause. Never encountered a fuse rated 500V before for anything having to do with audio. So chalk one up for Synergistic research there regardless of the outcome.
See specs and facts DO matter and usually only help.
You can bet that there are those of us who are waiting with baited breath for your assessment of the fuse. I had it in my REF-3 with really good results over the HiFi Tuning fuse that preceded it. Keep in mind that the SR Black fuse blows (no pun intended) what I sent you away. :-)
Are you saying the 500V rating is safe even though it is twice what the vendor specifies because such an event /surge can never happen?
Hi Mapman,
Yes, I’m saying that the 500V rating is safe. As you will realize, a fuse does not protect against voltage surges, per se. It protects against excessive current flow. And as I explained in my post earlier today, the voltage rating defines how much voltage the fuse is rated to be able to withstand when it blows. And the only time a fuse will "see" the actual line voltage, or any other significant voltage, is if and when it blows.
If the line voltage exceeds the fuse’s voltage rating, the fuse may not be able to maintain an "open" state when it blows, and current may therefore be able to flow through it. Or, conceivably, it may explode.
So as I indicated in the earlier post, the higher that rating is the better, provided that everything else is equal. Because a higher voltage rating means more margin relative to a given line voltage, which would be in the direction of being beneficial if it makes any difference at all.
Are you saying the 500V rating is safe even though it is twice what the vendor specifies because such an event /surge can never happen?
Also I’m wondering if the 500V rating alone compared to most fuses rated for US standard voltage at 120 volts might alone account for some sound difference in some cases. I don’t see many other commonly used fuses rated for 500 volts when countries in fact go no more than 230 volts or so. What would be the rational for a 500V rating in this case?
Here is a list of voltage standards per country I found. Nothing near 500 V.
Hmm, Ok issue # 1 for me with this fuse may be a show stopper in that it appears to not match my ARC pre-amp fuse specs.
ARC sp 16 manual indicates it takes a 3A, 230V slo blow fuse.
Syn. Red fuse is T 3.15A, 500V.
T indicates slo blow I believe (check), 3.15 A is close enough, but 500V rating means this fuse will take slightly more than twice as many amps/power to blow as it should with properly rated 230V equivalent fuse.
Unless I'm missing something I cannot put this into my ARC sp16 without risking damage.
Oh by the way- for those of you really want to take the fuses to the next level- if you are using them in a barrel type connector with a spring loaded mechanism, you will notice that there is play inside the connector. Wrap the fuse in Teflon plumbers tape to make it snug (not too snug to keep the spring from compressing). Don't cover the black dot on the black fuse. Reinsert and behold even greater clarity and focus. This tweak works on any fuse. Try it and report back. You should like what you hear!!! IEC's respond well too to this. Minimizing vibrations goes a long way.
Red quantum fuse just arrived. Nice looking fuse, nicely packaged in original box. Seems to have some weight to it compared to most fuses as I remember. Thanks!
I will take it home with me today and see what happens. Might get to try it out tonight in my Audio Research sp16 pre-amp if all goes well.
I haven't tried the WA chips on the SR Black fuses. I only tried them on the SR Red fuses. According to SR, the Black fuses have a coating on the exterior of the fuse and if the WA chips are used on them they will degrade the sound of the fuses.
My ARC Ref250 uses a 7A Slo-Blo and been using SR RED 6.3A without any issues. According to owners manual, each mono can draw up to 10A instantaneously so I don't recommend using a fast flow.
I have a full loom of SR BLACKs waiting in the bullpen. After pre is broken in when returns from VAC on SE upgrade, will replace all SR REDs in one shot. It should be interesting.
From my experience, ARC benefits most from fuse rolling so I encourage ARC owners to experiment.
Gpgr4blu, I’m sure Tsushima1 is correct about the physical size and voltage rating of the fuses that are required for your ARC gear, but to clarify about the voltage ratings: The 500v and 250v ratings refer to how much voltage a fuse can withstand when it blows. The voltage a fuse will "see" when it blows (i.e., the voltage that will appear between the fuse’s two contacts) will be the full line voltage. So the higher that rating is the better, everything else being equal. Under normal operating conditions the voltage appearing across fuses having these kinds of ratings will be a very miniscule fraction of a volt. And when the component is turned off the voltage appearing across the fuse will be zero.
HOWEVER, I would disagree with a couple of important things that have been said just above:
1)I would strongly recommend against substituting a fast blow fuse of somewhat higher current rating for a slow blow fuse of somewhat lower current rating. Some time ago, in connection with this thread, I looked at the detailed "melting point" specifications that are provided by the major manufacturers of garden variety fuses. That spec defines the approximate combination of current and time that will cause the fuse to blow (actually, in terms of current squared x time, which is proportional to energy). The upshot is that such a substitution stands an excellent chance of causing the fuse to blow almost immediately. Especially in the case of a mains fuse, where brief but very large "inrush currents" may occur at turn-on.
2)Earlier in the thread there were multiple anecdotal indications that the unspecified melting points of SR fuses are probably a bit lower than those of garden variety fuses having the same current rating (i.e., indications that the SRs blow a bit more readily). And it would seem expectable that in general a fault in a component that would cause a fuse to blow is more likely than not to result in a very large current increase, rather than one that is just slightly greater than the rating of the original fuse. Especially in the case of a mains fuse. So for both of those reasons I would suggest using a 6.3A slow blow in a 6A slow blow application, and an 8A slow blow in a 7A slow blow application. And likewise if an SR fast blow is substituted for a stock fast blow.
blu....You should be looking at the 5 X 20mm Slo Blo fuses which are 250V.
Personally I would tend to err on the side of caution, with a fuse slightly under rather than over the manufacturers rating where possible. Should you consider a value over e.g an 8 iin place of the factory 7 I would recommend a Fast Blo ,
Thinking of Synergistic blacks for my ARC Ref 150 and Ref 40 and I see that there are a number of ARC owners who have installed the Blacks in their gear notwithstanding my 2 concerns. 1-The Ref 40 uses a 6amp fuse and the Ref150 uses a 7amp fuse. The Synergistics make neither so I would presumably have to come up short but as close as possible (a 5 and 6.3, or if I'm adventurous, two 6.3s). 2-I believe both fuses are specified as 250v whereas the Synergistics are 500v. Not an electrical engineer or even an electrician so I do not generally like ignoring manufacturer's choices unless I know that it can cause no harm (e.g. after market power cords).
"Has anyone tried a SR Red Fuse in a Audio Research Reference 10?"
I have recently sub'd in an Black in place of the incumbent Red that had approx 60 hours on the clock in the Ref10, straight out of the box evolution across the board over the Red.
Just changed out the Reds to Blacks in my Cambridge 851C. I have roughly 72 hours on them and definitely an improvement over the Reds. Playing with direction of the fuses now and one I definitely had in the wrong direction.
I started with a Black in my ModWright LS 36.5 and because I have two in the Cambridge I thought I'd save a few dollars and start with the Reds there. The Reds were definitely an improvement over the stock fuses but just didn't feel the change was a drastic as the Black in my ModWright. Bought all fuses from VH Audio and of course I was able to send the Reds back for the Blacks which was nice. Anyone thinking of trying the Reds first I wouldn't bother for the price difference honestly.
Everything has improved across the board but the big thing I can say about these fuses is I find I enjoy listening to the volume down a little now which means my amp is running in Class A more which is nice as well. Too bad my Pass amp doesn't have fuses instead of the circuit breaker switch on the back they use; I suspect it's of decent quality.
I have two Blacks arriving Monday to replace the Reds in my Primaluna monos. I'm planning on moving the Reds to the plate fuses. I'm not sure that replacing the plate fuses will make any kind of difference, but I have to do something with the Reds as there doesn't seem to be much of an aftermarket for audiophile fuses, except among friends. I'll check back in later next week after I have a chance to cook the new Blacks...
all this talk abou ref-10', I'm feeling like a scrub with my Ls 17. Lol. Posted in the other SR Atmosphere cable thread. Got the entry level black cords. Breaking in right now. About 24 hours in. Hard and unmusical. I had been using a hombres cord with belden 33803 or something like that, with furutech copper and gold plate iec's. The black cord use what appear to be Leviton brass male connectors, this I would think would be a downgrade, but the prof is in e broken in sound..... We shall see!
The ARC REF 10 is a very expensive high level Line Stage, just go directly to the Black fuse, no point stopping off at the Red fuse. The Red is "very good ", the Black is in comparison "superb". As Frank, David and I have written previously, the better resolved the components /system the greater the impact of the Black fuses.
Sayles, You summed up very wel the SR Black effect , a bottleneck is replaced with an open, fully breathing sound. I am happy for you very successful results. Charles,
Nice post. What's so astounding is how much stock fuses degrade the sound of our equipment. SR has hit on something big with these fuses. Your above post just about says it all.
On the vocals ... I listened to a recording of the Norman Luboff choir's "But Beautiful" last night with the Black fuse in the phono amp.
This is one of my reference records. Its lushness just comes over you in waves. There is a female soloist just to the left and behind the right speaker. As improvements have been made to the system, her voice has incrementally become more and more distinct. Well, last night she became a featured performer for the very first time. With the placement of the SR Black fuse in the phono amp, I have a brand new record collection. Just uncanny.
rspyder ...
I've heard the REF-10 on numerous occasions. A fabulous line stage to be sure.
I have a SR Red fuse in my REF 75 SE. soon to be replaced with a SR Black fuse.
What I thought to be a grain free amp was brought to a whole new level with the Red fuse. As I said in an earlier post, if you have a REF-75, you haven't heard what the amp is capable of until you change out the fuse for the SR fuse. But why stop with the Red fuse when the Black fuse would take you to a whole different level?
I don't see why the REF-10 would be any different than the REF-75. The results should be the same if not even better. I suspect that the more revealing your equipment is in the first place, the better the results will be. And ... as you know very well, the REF-10 is REVEALING in a big way. Fantastic piece of gear.
Take advantage of the 30 day trial period and give it a go. But please report the results here. I'll bet it'll be really, really great.
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