I installed a SR RED Quantum fuse in my ARC REF-3 preamp a few days ago, replacing an older high end fuse. Uhh ... for a hundred bucks, this little baby is well worth the cost. There was an immediate improvement upon installation, but now that its broken in (yes, no kidding), its quite remarkable. A tightening of the focus, a more solid image, and most important of all for my tastes, a deeper appreciation for the organic sound of the instruments. Damn! ... cellos sound great! Much improved attack on pianos. More humanistic on vocals. Bowed bass goes down forever. Next move? .... I'm doing the entire system with these fuses. One at a time though just to gauge the improvement in each piece of equipment. The REF-75se comes next. I'll report the results as the progression takes place. Stay tuned ...
Any comments from anyone else who has tried these fuses?
Thanks to this thread you've started I took the SR Black splurge and even after only about 16 hours I'm happy I did. My system hasn't sounded better. It hasn't been a resounding sound difference......yet......the subtle improvements add immensely to my listening pleasure though. A tad more detail here, clarity there, a bit more air and texture everywhere adds an ambiance I've not heard before.
As to coffee, ive never had a cup. Neither has my wife so we don't even own a coffee maker but your description of your brewing of it almost makes me want to brew some. Or maybe I'll just stick with brewing beer ;) A nice hearty bourbon stout maybe......that's as close to drinking coffee as I've experienced.
Do any of you like coffee? I do. I love really great coffee. Its the only coffee I'll drink.
Most think the swill Starbucks sells is good coffee. Most people are entirely satisfied drinking swill. They and their friends have been convinced through advertising that just because they spend 5 bucks on a cup of swill, the 5 bucks somehow makes the brew drinkable. Its not ... not by as long shot. The foul bitterness is due to burning the beans and producing in essence charcoal water.
The person I bought my speakers from years ago convinced me to get into home roasting my coffee. He showed me where to buy the green coffee beans and all of the equipment needed to get things going.
Once everything was set up and the first roast of Guatemala's finest was finished, I brewed a pot of the ebony elixir and took my first sip. It wasn't subtle; it was a revelation in coffee and how it should taste. I experienced hints of ripe plums and faint traces of nutmeg evolving into chocolate overtones as the cup cooled. Bright, crisp and no hint of bitterness at all.
Here's the site I use. www.sweetmarias.com The service is exceptional and the coffee is the best you can buy. Expensive? Nope, average price is under seven bucks per pound. The initial investment in the roaster is about the price of three SR Black fuses.
Tom, along with his wife Maria, run sweet maria's from their warehouse in San Francisco. Tom travels all over the world to visit small, family owned organic farms. He only buys the best in small lots.
For those of you who love coffee like I do, and who can also hear the difference good after market fuses make, even with the ability of hearing the proper orientation of the fuses, I encourage you to visit sweet maria's site.
Its totally reliable and you can use it indoors because it has a built in filter and doesn't smoke like most coffee roasters. Once you get the formula right on the roasts, you won't turn back. I've used the Behmor roaster for years with no problems what so ever.
Here's the vacuum brewer I use. It produces an exceptionally clean cup of coffee. Much better than a French press by far.
For those of you who believe that coffee is coffee and it can't be improved upon, forget about it. Just remain in ignorant bliss while drinking swill. Yuck!
Good point and I have also experienced this attitude. I call it being closed minded and not having a healthy curiosity for what may be outside of their experience and current knowledge. Lots of knowledgeable people out there besides ourselves:)
Many designers do not think boutique parts sound different or better. Many big names that I won’t mention here think all wire, fuses, capacitors, resistors etc... that meet spec will sound virtually the same. They are wrong. Just because they are talented designers does not mean they were or are opened minded enough to test all manner of boutique parts in their circuits and relentlessly fine tune and learn.
In some cases, I won’t say all, it’s an amplifier designer’s ego that gets in the way. It’s like, I know all about circuits so my designs are perfect and don’t need any tweaks. Another concern is that the cost of incorporating various tweaks or upgrades like premium fuses and power cords and capacitors almost certainly means he'd have to compete above his weight class as it were.
I owned a set of $16,000 - $18,000 speakers built with $10 Solen caps and sand cast resistors. The builder told me upgrading the parts would not matter. He could not be more wrong. After the upgrade he then told me the Zobel network would not benefit from upgraded resistors etc... again he was so wrong.
Several good tube amp designers also told me upgrading internal parts would be a waste of money and time. Again, anyone and everyone in my home could easily hear the improvement.
Why do some talented designers disregard the use of "boutique" parts? Well I know first hand many have not even tried them in their designs being turned off by the cost and assumed waste of time/money. Several told me these parts were marketed to weak minded audiophiles.
I get it really. They are busy running a business and all that goes with it. They are busy designing and sourcing parts that work. Do they really treat their designs like a high end chef treats a recipe? The high end chef will search high and low for that special quality, fresh ingredient that goes beyond just filling the ingredient requirement. For example, using La Vera smoked pakrika from Spain instead of common paprika. This is analogous to a designer using a Duelund capacitor instead of Solen or SR fuses etc...
Many designers do not think boutique parts sound different or better. Many big names that I won't mention here think all wire, fuses, capacitors, resistors etc... that meet spec will sound virtually the same. They are wrong. Just because they are talented designers does not mean they were or are opened minded enough to test all manner of boutique parts in their circuits and relentlessly fine tune and learn.
I have had several designers tell me upgrading parts in their design would not improve the sound. Well, after prolonged and disciplined testing of "boutique" part upgrades I knew first hand the real answer. Yes, better quality parts often improve the sound in a given circuit. I assume fuses would be no different. Heck a couple of resistors make a difference, it all makes a difference.
I talked to Nelson Pass about this exact thing and his response was unprintable in this forum (actually it is printable, but saying it's not is more fun). Suffice to say old Nelson doesn't support the insupportable or imagined..sorry mapman, you may never get your wish.
Mac, I use the Coincident power cables and Ocellia Silver Reference interconnects and speaker cables. I've been told that Israel's latest Statement cables are wonderful. Mac your listening impressions of Coincident mirror mine. Again, you'll be very happy for years. Feel free to email me anytime, charles1dad@aol.com Charles
It's only your good taste that allows you to recognize my good taste! Lol. I was my taste was good enough so that I wouldn't have had to spend so much money on this audio journey and instead buy what I really wanted the first time. But then you really don't know what works for you or not until you try out differant components.
I heard the Coincident system at a home and I almost wish I hadn't.....I was just becoming content with my system. I think my current system sounds very good but the Coincident sound is exactly what I'm looking for........a near live performance sound as if you're hearing the actual musicians instead of a recording. IMO nothing beats or matches a live performance but the Coincident system was the closest I've ever heard and I've heard systems costing nearly 10 times that system.......but then I don't need to tell you that, you're already know! Are you using Israels cables also? I ordered his Statement interconnects as I needed a pair and will get his power cords and speaker cables when I'm able to get his Line Stage, Frankensteins and Super Victorys.
Hi Mac, Did you hear the Coincident system in the home of an owner or at an audio show? I’ve had the Coincident Frankenstein MK II and the Statement Line Stage for over 7 years. My speakers are their discontinued Total Eclipse II. This system has genuinely "exceeded" my lofty expectations and continue to be a pure joy. I believe that you’ll be very happy with your proposed future system.
You demonstrate good taste with your past, current and future components, and yes I am a bit bias 😊 Charles
I'm looking forward to the fuses getting even better.
Yes, the Torii and Tektons do work well together. And yes, I did have the Raven and Yggy. The Raven was quite nice but I like the Torii more. As much as I like the Torri and Tektons, I'll probably be going with Coincident Speaker Super Victory II's with their Frankenstein 300B Monoblocks and their Statement Line Stage. A lot more money, I know but after hearing them I can't get that sound out of my mind. Hopefully that will be the end of my audio equipment merry go round.......wishful thinking I'm sure.......especially since I want the Directstreams.
The Yggy was excellent and only sold it because I like the synergy of the Perfectwaves with their I2S connection. If I ever need another DAC the Yggy would be at the top of my list.
dl I think you are right. It would be malpractice in essence for any engineer worth their salt to incorporate something they did not understand. Once they understand it, then no problem.
You are also right that a troll is a troll and nothing will change that. It’s what they do, as they say.
If a Nelson Pass or others of his stature started using SR products in their gear, I for one would certainly take notice.
Mac, You have me curious. Do you also have/use the Raven Audio Blackhawk amp and the Schitt Yggy DAC ? I've read very good comments regarding the Decware Torii and Raven amplifiers. The Yggy gets very good feedback as well. Charles
Hello mac, I’m glad that the SR Black fuses were successful in your system components. here’s more good news for you, they’ll improve with further use. I imagine the Decware Torii and Tekton speakers sound very good together. Mac, I also have the P.S.Audio PWT and it’s fabulous mated to my Yamamoto DAC. Charles
Recieved my SR black fuses today for my amp, DAC and transport. Even after just a couple of hours they sound better than the stock fuses. I haven't played with direction yet, figured I'd let them burn in first. I thought my system was quite transparent before.....its even more so now. I don't have a mega buck system but it's sounding quite good and I'm pleasantly surprised that the fuses made an improvement right out of the box, and hopefully will get even better in time. My Decware Torii mkIV and PS Audio Perfectwave PMT and PWD got the new fuses and they feed my Tekton Double Impacts. So I've switched sides from fuse cynic to advocate. I realize this might cause sleepless nights for those that are so concerned over the use of audiophile fuses by others, but I couldn't help myself!
I sourced some breakers for $40, but builders would get a far better price. Paul was also a recording expert and produced many a recording. I trusted his ears and brilliant mind and then tried it myself. Being in innovation professionally I have a healthy dose of intentional curiosity. However, my curiosity is not as reigned in as the engineers and operations folks I work with. Yes, I am a marketing guy who thinks all things are possible!
Or perhaps some manufacturers fail to try things outside of their realm of understanding or fear that buyers will not accept those things either based on the same reason.
Should a manufacturer choose to use SR Black fuses in their products, I can only imagine the outcry of the trolls. Why would they invite this? I would not if I were them.
As a technology and innovation professional (not in audio industry though) I’d venture to guess that the good makers evaluate many design options all the time and choose the ones that are reliable and work well and are in line with the "brand". I’d expect some R&D budget is there to help raise the bar over time as well else one gets left behind eventually.
IF some things are not seen as often as one might expect there is a good reason.
Anyone with enough knowledge and skill can join the game anytime and try out their own believed innovations. If they are truly better, then that’s the ticket to success, like with Nelson Pass and many others.
Or maybe all these smart folks making this stuff are all just trolls who don’t believe that these particular things make for better sounding gear or do so for good value. That’s an easy explanation. :^)
Bill, How much did you spend for a high quality circuit breaker in your various modification projects? What case did Paul Weitzel make in favor of circuit breakers ? Charles
Yes, I'm sure there's a quality hierarchy among circuit breakers as exist with fuses, resistors, capacitors, tubes, cables etc. Nelson Pass could offer a compelling reason for circuit breakers. On the other hand some of the finest sounding components use fuses. Obviously many factors determine the end result of a component's sonic performance. Charles
Charles, I don’t know why many builders don’t use film caps in the power supply? Why they don’t use better internal wiring? Why they use such long signal paths? Why they don’t use breakers? Why many builders think one part sounds the same as another as long as both are in spec and think boutique capacitors/resistors and the like are snake oil? Why do we still use conventional binding posts instead of clamps that clamp the output wires to the speaker cable? Many more audio questions I wonder about in terms of tube gear design.
I think some builders do what they know over and over and really don’t innovate in ways that challenge their comfort zone and conventional wisdom. I am confident this is at play. Some builders do push their comfort zone and are open minded and intentionally curious. Intentional curiosity and openness to outside ideas is indeed in short supply based on my business experience.
My ears know breakers sound better than fuses all else being equal. I am speaking about AC mains voltage here.
That would be interesting. Tried google search and came up empty.
One benefit would be anything done differently is a unique feature and helps differentiate one product or product line from another.
Also I’m sure not all breakers are created equal just like fuses however I would expect a good quality breaker circuit to be inherently more costly to implement than most fuses.
Al, Thanks for providing the links, I'll read them later today. I realize that there is a pro and con argument that can be made for virtually any choice made regarding audio products. It'd be interesting to know what factors cause Nelson Pass to avoid fuses and utilize circuit breakers. Charles
Discussion of the use of circuit breakers in audio components can be found in the following threads. The bottom line would seem to be that it may be suitable and beneficial to use some breakers in some applications but not in others, with breaking time being one of several significant considerations:
Also, use of a circuit breaker in a DC rail application may be problematical in many cases in terms of where it is located and how it is wired to, with the possibility of noise coupling to or from that wiring having to be addressed.
Finally, I would imagine that in many cases a factor is that designers tend to go with approaches they have used previously, and are familiar with, and do not require significant time for evaluation and experimentation in return for sonic benefits that may or may not occur.
Bill, Since you've used breakers in your numerous modification projects I'd assume that it is relatively easy to accomplish. If this is true why the continued dominant use of fuses in audio components rather than breakers? Charles
I have been posting on these for years and use breakers in my mods and recent builds. Learned it from one of the best out of the box designers in audio history, Paul Weitzel, founder of Tube Research Labs. Lose the fuse!
Well I wonder why with the touted sonic advantages (of a breaker vs fuse) their use isn't more widespread in higher end audio components. I'd be very receptive to using them. They don't appear to be any more complex than fuses.
charles1dad Given the increased sound quality I hear with better fuses I'd be very curious to hear my components with breakers in placed of my SR fuses and listen for what differences they make.
I'm getting goosebumps just thinking about a new thread on breakers.
Given the increased sound quality I hear with better fuses I'd be very curious to hear my components with breakers in placed of my SR fuses and listen for what differences they make.
121 posts 01-18-2017 9:11am 3199 responses to this post. I just had to make it an even 3200. Also, this post makes me happy that I bought a pair of Pass Lab monoblocks. No Fuses; Thermal magnetic breakers.
Yeah, but the fuse voodooist will tell you, if you ripped all that out and put in a SR fuse it will sound better, WHAT A LOAD OF VOODOO ****!!! Cheers George
That makes sense for Pass Lab to take that approach. There certainly are manufacturers who recognize the negatives effects of fuses and they simply avoid them when feasible. I can accept a hierarchy of no fuse >premium fuse >stock fuse in terms of sound quality. Thermal magnetic breakers make sense as fuses to seem to have a "bottleneck" effect on the sound quality in my experience. It doesn't seem that they'd be that much more expensive to implement compared to conventional fuses, I could be wrong in this assumption.
3199 responses to this post. I just had to make it an even 3200. Also, this post makes me happy that I bought a pair of Pass Lab monoblocks. No Fuses; Thermal magnetic breakers.
Jafreeman Some on this thread keep worrying about us that are enjoying our elevated sounds systems for the price of a few tank fulls of gas, maybe they want us to invest mega dollars in other things. We keep saying our hearing is ok, we are not smoking the wacky weed, we haven't had any mental trauma's recently. Yet they still come on here a show a big concern for us. Oh how sweet it is! Maybe it is because they don't hear us very well. That could be it because they keep saying the same thing over and over and over. You know what they say about doing the same thing over and over and over and over. Well I guess it is nice they care for us.
That’s another phoney troll argument. I don’t use or even own any satellites but I know all about them. Knowledge is power, troll. Have you given any consideration to going back to school?
The Argument from Ignorance (also, Argumentum ad Ignorantiam): The fallacy that since we don’t know (or can never know, or cannot prove) whether a claim is true or false, it must be false (or that it must be true). E.g., “Scientists are never going to be able to positively prove their theory that humans evolved from other creatures, because we weren't there to see it!
Jafree enjoy your stuff but don’t forget that opinion is neither fact nor news and definitely not universally accepted truth about any particular fuse product.
For example its been pointed out multiple times by others how merely changing or reseating a fuse and improving the contact as a result can have a perceivable effect. Having examined fixed or changed many a fuse for customers in year's past I can vouch for that easily.
Also there are many who do not spread fakery but there are also others who unquestionably do.
I have no problem with people who hear a difference or like the fuses for whatever reason. I have problem when they assert things as truth however as a result meanwhile discounting or denying other assertions that challenge the case.
Asserting things that are questionable as truth is a common marketing ploy used to influence people to buy. That’s a pretty safe assertion that cannot be discounted don’t you think?
I would think if there was any danger of the fuses damaging the equipment neither Steve Deckert of Decware nor Paul McGowan of PS Audio would recommend them in their products.
This reminded me of a conversation I had with the folks over at Ayre several years ago about some of their equipment I owned. As a major manufacturer of audio equipment in the USA, Ayre is well-known for both their consistent design philosophies and for the importance they place on listening tests in the final "voicing" of their broad range of products.
We were discussing "audiophile" fuses and I was told their internal discussions had yet to define how they might respond to the warranty coverage of their gear, if damage was determined to have occurred because the equipment was not adequately protected by such fuses. At that time, I remember discussing that the concern was related to the lack of testing and potential consistency issues with the aftermarket fuses, compared to the tried and true Bussmann and Little type fuses.
To be clear, I have no idea of Ayre's current viewpoint on aftermarket or audiophile fuses. Based on the quality of their equipment, I doubt a small variance in fuse value would put their equipment at risk and, based on the quality of their reputation, I suspect they may very well cover damage to their still-under-warranty equipment, even if an aftermarket audiophile fuse was used, with the exception of gross negligence. The point of this post is that, even a few short years ago, a top manufacturer not only did not embrace the use of audiophile fuses in their gear, but showed some concern for the suitability of such fuses to do the job intended.
OTOH, and in fairness of an opposing viewpoint, I have done several projects with Steve McCormack, another well-respected designer of excellent sounding electronic equipment, and he embraces the differences/improvements he hears from audiophile fuses and includes them in his products. In my experience, he does not recommend just one type/manufacturer, but instead has determined that different fuses can work best in different locations within the equipment (i.e., line fuses vs. rail fuses), so he uses the fuse he believes sound best for the specific application.
Uh...right…although it has been claimed by premium fuse Athletic Supporters that the wonders of SR fuses can be realized in even crappy gear. That’s right. The wonderfulness is always there because it’s baked in…"lifted to perceptive improvements unmistakable by even you." Yeah man, EVEN YOU…no not you…but maybe you…although not me. I guess my components aren’t being served by ultra pure conductors except maybe Pierre Boulez, although you can’t really be so sure even about that guy, although conductors are generally directional.
Those of you who are fuse doubters have again come around to tell us we are suffering from mass delusion during our listening evaluations. Let me assure you--our experience of enhanced clarity and presence is based in a perceptual reality well within the margins of the lunatic fringe you enjoy placing us in. Perhaps an important reason why we hear these improvements and you have not, if you have even tried, is that you must have a system supplied by a generous and quiet power supply and components served by ultra pure conductors. Components, whether of mid or hi-fi quality, must be thoroughly isolated from mechanical vibrations to provide further clarity of sound. Along with room improvements, the system containing better fuses and that is supported in these ways will be lifted to perceptive improvements unmistakeable by even you, but these fundamental things must be done right. In these times of fake news, there is truth found right here, on this thread, told by many fellow audiophiles who don't make a habit of spreading fakery, rather, they appreciate hearing the positive results others have experienced when using better fuses. My best wishes to you in finding that truth.
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