I have a Tranquility Base and Basik and one thing I found odd was that the Basik has square corners and the Base has rounded corners. Not a huge deal but esthetically they should round the corners on the Basic...they will match better.....
Regards Bacardi |
Joey.... so how does it sound in your own words compared to the MK-2?.
Thanks. |
I recently traded in my Powercell 10SE Mk.2 for a Powercell 10SE Mk.3 with The Cable Company. They are my dealer who facilitated the Lifetime Passport trade-in program that Synergistic Research offers on their products.
Synergistic states: The MK. 3s Electromagnetic Cell has ramped up performance with the addition of precious metals at critical points within the cell structure along with a newly developed groud plane, which was developed during the Tranquility research program. |
Right you are Tbg. The StillPoint Ultra SS footers are amazing. However, they
are not a good solution for my Macbook Pro. Most importantly, what I am looking for is a platform that can provide a more organic midrange for my Macbook Pro. An increase in sound staging would be a bonus. Just wondering
if I can achieve both with the Basik. Looks like I will just have to try them when
I get the time.
Anyone who has compared the two, please do share. |
I once heard a very interesting talk by a John Camille on what it would take to achieve 60, 70, 80, 90 and 100 db of signal to noise. His conclusion was that 60 and even 70 were doable. That 80 was achievable with great difficulty and that 90 could be achieved only by impractical means such as encasing components in half inch thick steel with no holes anywhere! 100 db was, he said, God's country.
I have found that charged cables are a very great improvement at least in our modern world with all the EMI and RFI around. I suspect that were we to put everything into a Faraday cage, we would all hear an improvement and listening in a room that was a Faraday cage would be better yet.
Yes, Scott, I suspect better isolation and a grounding plane would make some difference. I think putting one on top the unit would also. But would it be very great? I don't know. Long ago I realized that isolation was important also, and I experienced modest improvements. Later I was shocked at the improvement given with the SR MIGs and even more by the StillPoint Ultra SSs and Ultra Fives. This was well beyond what I thought was possible. All that I will conclude now is, "try it!" |
Has any one compared the Tranquility Basik to the Base? I guess it baffles me
how the price can double by just adding a few more layers and a grounding
plane. |
What would be the price of that? Probably a house re-mortgage. |
Wait till SR comes out with the active base you place under the chair/seat you place your butt on.Wider deeper taller bigger fuller
After that for all new home construction we have the new active base that is installed in the foundation of the new home with 220 power running on it. Massive sound stage with deeper wider taller and all that other lingo. |
Currently auditioning Tranquility Base. Didn't think it made much difference, if any, initially. It turned out a few of the active connections in the system had come off inadvertently. When I restored the connections, there was a pretty considerable difference for the better with the Base on. A fellow audiophile confirmed what heard as well.
The addition of the Base under my source is providing a noticeable improvement in both imaging and depth of soundstage. In addition, both the highs and lows are a bit more clear and defined, while at the same time managing to be more musical as well. The greatest difference is heard when I turn the Base off.
My system is pretty resolving, so I was and am surprised to hear as much of a difference as I have. I understand the premise, just didn't think it would make such a noticeable positive difference. It has so far and I have John at The Cable Company to thank for turning me on to this Base. |
I'm auditioning the Tungsten in my system and it quite handily demolished the VooDoo Stradivarius and JPS Superconductor 3 that I was comparing against. The only IC that held its own is the much awarded and more expensive CRL Silver, which is just as good in many ways but with a sweeter tonal balance and a more prominent midrange.
What is said about the Tungsten is true -- vast, eerily holographic sound stage coupled with awesome frequency extensions. What I haven't decided is whether it is completely neutral or very slightly warm.
Has anyone compared the Tungsten with the Precision Reference? Is the Precision more neutral of the two? |
Working with a variety of metals in various shapes and geometry used in my hi-fi always calls me back to tungsten and how very little or barely a trace can be way to much. With tungsten in the system the visual picture laid out of the sound stage in front of me was also above me, much like Dali's "Persistence of Memory" purchased in capsule form on Haight Street in the Summer of 69 . Tom |
Its all relative and personal taste as to system/listening goals, which tend to change over time as technology advances and musical tastes evolve. Apex is an excellent cable and still present elsewhere in my system. CTS works better for me between source and preamp.
"Apex ic killing and choking the system" - these are YOUR words, NOT MINE. I never said that. |
2010 wrote,
didn't realize my Tesla Apex ics were a system choke point until I put in the new demos (Element series: Copper-Tungsten-Silver) between my CD player and preamp. Sound-stage also got wider, deeper and the imaging got even better
3.7 K Apex IC killing and choking the system. WOW.
Two/three yrs. ago it was doing the huge/wide/deep SS. It must decrees its magic over the years. Must be the new QT MK 13 doing its thing. |
Hifinut, which of the Element IC´s did you prefer, the Copper or Tungsten? I am curious if both would be an upgrade over my current Accelerator or just a lateral move..... |
Good news -
Changing the ICs from source to preamp within the SR line yielded a much greater sonic improvement than I expected. System got significantly more musical and organic, resolution and clarity increased, and bass got tighter, a bit deeper and seemingly faster, if that makes sense. The total presentation got considerably more balanced - the funny thing is that I didn't realize there were several imbalances until the new ics "fixed" them. My speakers have finally really "come alive". :-)
I didn't realize my Tesla Apex ics were a system choke point until I put in the new demos (Element series: Copper-Tungsten-Silver) between my CD player and preamp. Sound-stage also got wider, deeper and the imaging got even better. As a few of my audio buddies remarked, witnessing the pretty substantial improvements in so many areas - "WOW"!!
I may also try the CTS balanced from my Preamp to Amps (VAC 300.1s). I just changed this run from Precision Ref rcas to balanced, which pretty dramatically lowered my noise floor - not sure I want to change them out this quickly. In addition, a 2.5m balanced pair of CTS ics gets very, very pricey. I probably ought to first compare the cable geometries, etc.
John at the Cable Company has been a pleasure to work with as I continue my quest towards audio nirvana. |
I just tried the Synergistic New Tesla Line with my Magicos. I ve tried a lot of different cables and finally i droped at the Audioquesr WEL. The Synergistic New Tesla Line is different in sound and i can not say which one is absolute better. |
Bacardi, I would say that the Element Copper would be a huge upgrade over Tesla Accelerator for the money in a 5 channel system, especially the bass. |
If one has Tesla Accelerator bi-wire for all 5 channels in a home theatre set-up, would the Tesla Element series be a huge upgrade in quality for the money? At least for the main front speakers. Thx in advance.
Regards Bacardi |
Antonkk: If you are looking for the best sound, the new Element cables are in my experience (and so far, I've only tried the interconnects), quite noticably more dynamic and detailed and throw a larger, more layered soundstage. The Tungsten in particular rachets up the "being there" sensation a few notches from even the Tesla Apex. I recently acquired the Copper and after a few more days of burning in (and now I realize that the "used" cables I got were essentially brand new) transformed quite significantly over the first 50 hours. The mids and highs in particularly fleshed out quite significantly. Overall, I think the Copper is nearly the equal of Tesla Apex in the mids and highs, with a slightly better soundstage and much more defined bass and overall better PRAT. I promptly sold the Apex. The Apex retailed for triple the Copper and almost double the Tungsten so it's quite the accomplishment.
If you don't mind eating 40% depreciation in the first year buying the Element new, then you'll be happy with it. Or be even happier if you can find it second hand in the near future. |
The only way to know is to try both in your system and see which you like better, IMO. There is no right or wrong, but what works best for you. |
DaveB: Sorry, I didn't mean to diss your equipment or your opinion and I was too strong in my delivery. I am also not dissing MIT cables per se since I've never heard it so cannot comment. What set me off is that you were dropping words such as "cable voodoo" in reference to SR's technology whereas MIT is pure "science and music" and SR owners were somehow "cult followers" implying MIT owners are somehow above that. My point is to most "flat earth" music lovers, any boutique cable is voodoo and the science is that the human ear can't possibly tell the difference between lamp cord and $20K speaker cable. All I'm asking is to show a little respect and agree to disagree with those who still enjoy SR cable in their system. I come here to find some constructive exchange on SR cable experiences, but see mostly mud slinging from ex-SR cable owners on SR's technology, marketing or both. Yeah, I get it; you tried it, didn't like it and moved on. I'm not ready to dump my entire SR loom, so look forward to posts from currently happy SR owners who has something positive to contribute. |
To SR users - am I better adviced to pick up the new Elements line as Cable Company suggests or should I maybe get some of the older Tesla lines used instead? |
|
DaveB,
Thanks for being a stand up guy. Your thoughts are well thought out and appreciated. |
Dave_b, thank you for your opinion. |
604,
Why are you so uptight? You drank the SR Kool-Aid and so did I. You still own it yes?
Sold it all, because to me IMO it produced an unnatural sound. |
Yes I can hear a BIG difference in my system. FYI, I've owned many 6 figure systems using MIT and other brands over the years. I could afford to not be frugal:O) My current system, although very humble compared to the plethora of reference components that have graced my homes, is quite resolving. Check out the PM1 specs etc.. My source even specs up there with the Esoteric's of the world. But more to the point, cable IS ONLY WIRE...UNLESS YOU ADDRESS THE COMPONENT INTERFACE PROBLEMS AND SIGNAL TRANSMISSION ISSUES. MIT is THEE cable company who has substantial technology and research that do just that. BOTTOM LINE IS DON'T TRUST ME...TRUST YOUR EARS!!! A well designed product WILL BE efficacious when used on any level of componentry and will do so consistently. On any given system, putting in a commensurate MIT cable product vs (insert cable x's name here), will yield a more realistic auditory experience. That's what 30 day trials are for my dear fellows. Of course, not everyone savors re-creating the hallmarks of live music in their system as much as the next person. Therein lies the rub no? With every conventional cable comes unpredictability and standard aural phenomena. With MIT, you hear a compelling reproduction of the musical event intact, with correct tone, pitch, timbre, dynamics...all within a spacious, airy 3 dimensional soundfield. The difference isn't subtle...it's paradigm shifting. I know some people that don't even hold tone or dimensionality as important factors in stereo reproduction. I would consider such people ignorant and misguided. |
Dave_b's been shilling MIT cables for a long time. Read the posting history. That being said, it's ok for somebody to support his/her favorite product.
The flaw in his thinking is that MIT is the best wire for all owners/systems.
The ideal cables are listener and system dependent.
That, dear readers, is indisputable. |
DaveB,
Sorry but no offence, but looking at the level of your system components, I have to question how much the cable matters. Of course the MIT cables sound "predictable" and "consistent" because your system is probably not resolving enough to hear much difference. Could it be that the MIT is acting as a tone control to smooth out your component's deficiencies? Also, the way you hard sell MIT cable research theory like a sales rep, YOU are the one who sounds like a cult follower trying spread the MIT religion. I certainly don't troll around the MIT forum telling MIT owners I think those ridiculous boxes of complicated networks adds all kind of colorations directly into the signal path. How many articulation poles does one need to reach audio nirvana? Why ARE you here, DaveB?
I didn't really hear all that much difference in cable until I moved to a EMM Labs/Vitus combo. Frankly, I don't give a fig about any scientific mumbo jumbo that goes into cables, nor the BS marketing, even SR's overblown marketing with Quantum Tunneling, etc. All I know is that SR does make a positive difference to my musical enjoyment, and more than any other cable brand I've tried, placebo effect or not. This actually bugs the hell out of me because I wish cable didn't sound different and I can save a bunch of cash. I would just hook everything up with Radio Shack and laugh at the fools getting swindled by snake oil products.
Glory: we know your position and I tend to agree, but I think the line's getting a bit old... |
DaveB,
Can you really hear a difference between SR/MIT with your system setup? |
Dave_b, I believe you like the MITs, but they are no more proven technologies than any other cables. If a buyer likes another cable, he or she need not "beware" if they are not MITs. |
When will the Power Cell Mk5 SE be coming out? Anyone hearing the prototype version please give us your feedback.
Thanks,
Glory |
Well Hasse, did you ever wonder why most cables are so unpredictable? The cable company would have you believe that your system is to blame or is inferior. Wires are wires and will vary by their materials and construction, which are not always that great, just different. MIT cables are designed to address actuall interface problems of components and how the musical signal is transported via Patented scientific methods (read, all Patents are not good ones). Therefore, I have found MIT cables to perform more predictably and consistently from one system to another. They also reproduce music more faithfully and honestly...i.e...accurate tone, pitch, timbre etc.! Buyer beware for those who need to believe in certain "cable cult" over practical applications of proven technologies. |
"My point is that until you actually hear something in your own system, you need to take words like "better" and "dramatic improvement" with a big grain of salt. Both Elliot at Synergistic and John at the Cable Company were kind enough to allow me to demo these cables in my system. I went with the balanced Prec Ref cables (old style without those bullets), not because of the dollars, but because of the sound."
Wise words Fplanner |
Ok, I'm done chewing out SR's marketing so I'll move on. The Cable Co is an excellent retailer to get in touch with to demo cables in your own system before you buy, which is a very useful resource.
Fplanner2010, I agree that you actually have to hear cables in your own system to know how they will sound. So far my "hunches" were mostly wrong.
I am running an Apex IC from my DAC to the integrated amp. I demoed an Element Tungsten and it produced a much deeper, wider soundstange than the Apex with slightly better imaging as well. I was extremely skeptical about Tungsten as a conductor material since it's inherently a far worse conductor than silver or copper, and it's not even popular for light bulbs anymore. I am a loss to explain how it could possibly sound good for audio. It did fall a bit short in harmonic richness and tonal density. The Apex also sounded a bit more organic overall. I recently (in the last 2 days) took delivery of an Element Copper IC second hand and it doesn't sound anything like the Tungsten in my system. I will give it a bit more run time but so far I'm not particularly impressed and soundstage is flatter and lacks the transparency and musicality of the Apex. While I would rank the Tungsten as overall a bit better than the Apex, I would say that in my system, the Copper which I expected to be close to the Apex has so far been disappointing. Apart from the bass extension and definition which matches the Apex, it seems to be quite a bit inferior in all other areas, and does not possess the overall refinement, IMO. I hope that letting it run for a few more days will help but so far the Apex is better in my system. I'm running Precision Ref speaker cables with Cells. |
Fplanner2010,
You are correct, of course. Everything is system dependent. But if you found yourself in the kind of situation I described earlier and, let's say, you discovered that Element Tungsten or the PowerCell Mark III is the perfect match for your system but had recently purchased at full price a top-of-the-line SR product -- now dethroned -- you might have "special" feelings about your financial situation. Your choices might be clear but your wallet might have you in the ICU. If you know what I mean. IMO. |
The placement of the cables above was between my preamp and amps. |
Another point to keep in mind, as I have recently discovered, is that all systems are different, and just because something new may sound better in 1 system, it may NOT sound better in yours.
I recently demoed the extremely pricey Element Silver 3m balanced interconnects in my system as an alternative to balanced Precision Ref ICs, which I was also demoing to replace my single-ended Precision Ref ics. I was expecting to be blown away by the silver ICs.
I wasn't. The balanced Precision Refs sounded considerably better in my system - more full bodied, better bass and more 3-dimensional. The strengths of the silver cables were great resolution and detail, which I already had from my CD player and its 20 32-bit 2nd generation DACs per channel.
My point is that until you actually hear something in your own system, you need to take words like "better" and "dramatic improvement" with a big grain of salt. Both Elliot at Synergistic and John at the Cable Company were kind enough to allow me to demo these cables in my system. I went with the balanced Prec Ref cables (old style without those bullets), not because of the dollars, but because of the sound.
Just my $.02 |
Hifinut604,
I think one further valid point is that the newest version of the PowerCell and the Element series are described as being a dramatic improvement over earlier comparative products in the SR line. This is one more reason why people may feel justifiably frustrated. If we were talking about an incremental improvement -- OK, not the end of the world. But if you bought the earlier LE or SE and then got trumped by a game-changer that leaves a different taste in the mouth. IMO. |
Jwpstayman,
You are correct. The Tesla Challenge is simply an offer to audition cables and compare them with what you have in your system. It is not a discount program.
Hifinut604,
I agree with you completely. Your statement hit the nail on the head:
"As a business owner, I would never allow my best clients to be pissed off in a public forum after spending their hard earned cash on my products."
My comments have been directed at the SR PowerCell. But they also apply to the Element series that came out a few months after the Tesla LE cables were introduced. If you up traded various versions of the SR PowerCell or if you up traded to the Tesla LE Apex recently, for example, you have been caught in a marketing trap. Feeling you have just been trumped would be a natural response. IMO.
If you are well-heeled you might be able to take this with equanimity. But it you are not it is hard to relax into this kind of fast-paced marketing and go with the flow and just enjoy. It is not that you cannot enjoy the music, it is that you have just shelled out a lot of your hard earned cash for what you thought was the best but that has too quickly become the next-to-the-best and that requires yet another up trade. |
When I have tried SR cables I hear frequency alterations and colorations. Extra added smoothness and reduced tonal complexity for example. MIT cables sound more like the muicians are in my room:O) I get 100% trade in value when I move up the food chain! |
Jwpstayman - I agree with your points that the new products are improvements over the previous lines. I didn't mean to stir the pot, but only taking the philosophical stance that it's probably a better marketing strategy in the long run to keep your best customers happy and it appears that Glory had dropped some serious coin on SR products in the past.
For example, if I ran a casino, I would comp the high rollers executive suites and drinks to keep them coming back. The Passport Protection program offers little unless you got a old SR cable from the 90s but you're SOL if you got the last iteration of the Powercell 10. Yeah, most could be happy with the previous best product, but as a business owner, why would I want to turn away Mr. Compusive Upgrader who's willing to pay a REASONABLE amount to get the latest? It would be win/win to keep the client happy and lose/lose for him to finally walk away pissed because paying full price for the THIRD or FOURTH time in as many years is finally too much to keep up. As a business owner, I would never allow my best clients to be pissed off in a public forum after spending their hard earned cash on my products. |
Jwpstayman, I couldnt agree with you more. Enjoy what you have and pace your upgrading, allowing the budget to increase for future upgrade. People feel a need to upgrade as soon as something new comes out. Relax and enjoy....
Regards Bacardi |
Sabai - your posts have a couple of things confused. As a long time S/R customer/user, I have taken advantage of their Passport Protection program to trade up to new technology on a couple of occasions. I find this to be a terrific program and one of the few that allows you to trade up for different (type of) products. For example, you can trade an older power cord towards a new set of interconnects, something that few manufacturers allow you to do.
The Telsa Challange is NOT the same thing - the Telsa Challange allows you to try S/R cables in your system and compare the performance of their cables to whatever else you have in your system.
Yes, Synergistic has lots of new models/products and I have always found the newer products to be improvements over the previous products. That does NOT mean that the cables you already have or own no longer sound great, just that something better has come along and that Synergistic has made that happen. I don't quite understand why that is cause for complaint? We tend to moan and complain when "new and improved" is used only as marketing-speak and now you ( and others) complain when substantial improvements in performance by new models occurs. Upgrade when you have the urge and/or the money and enjoy what you have invested in previously until then - this is supposed to be FUN. |
Glory, grow up. Just about every high end company has new models that aren't upgradable. Wilson, Shunyata, Audience, etc. The real issue here is YOUR compulsion to feel the need to buy new models. I still enjoy my 2009 Synergistic cables without the need to "upgrade". |
Glory,
Your point is noted. And appropriate, IMO. Through all of this, having spent a very substantial amount of money on SR products, and watching the pace of bringing new products to market, and watching how SR responds to what we are saying here, I also find it sad that they are not able to be more understanding and bring to the table a solution that would make a heck of a lot of their loyal customers very happy. It would take a special effort on their part to do so, granted, but I believe they would be rewarded many times over -- in terms of goodwill as well as the bottom line. I personally do not believe they have reached the threshold of "more than fair" -- yet. |
Hifinut604,
Thank you for clarifying this. You are right when you differentiate between the really high end and the mid end. But for me, the mid end is also becoming out of reach the way things are going with fast-paced marketing. So it comes down to the same thing for me. I just cannot afford to keep "up trading" as SR calls it. The loss is unsustainable with each "up trade". If they offered an upgrading program, that would be a different story, as you rightly point out.
I agree with you completely about holding back bringing new products to market and giving loyal customers the opportunity to upgrade. You hit the nail on the head in both instances here. IMO. |
I love my Syn. Rsrch. Tesla Apex speaker cables. I had a pair of Resolution Ref 0.5 speaker cables for quite a while and really liked them, nice and balanced with sweet but complete highs, great texture, and superb controlled bass.
The Apex builds on all these qualities a great deal, with more definition in the mids, a fuller but just as super-controlled transparent bass, and also sweet non-fatiguing highs. |
Teddy did not near a word about the concerns of SR buyers on all the MK's going on. Very sad indeed.
Cash flow baby. Keep it coming!! |
Ted,
I note the statement in your posting:
"... we make our products readily available through the no risk Synergistic Research Challenge. This seems more then [sic] fair."
However, you refer to the Synergistic Research Challenge on your site as a "70% Trade Up Allowance". With all due respect, this is not the same at all as a "no risk" challenge. Your offer requires the purchase of double the value of the original purchase.
Your site states: "You are upgrading to a Synergistic Research product or products whose value is twice the price of the original purchase to receive the full 70 % rebate." There is no mention of no risk on your site.
There are no upgrades offered on the PowerCell series. So, if a customer who purchased the original PowerCell 10 or PowerCell 10 SE, for instance, wishes to experience the benefits of the much-heralded PowerCell 10SE Mark III, they have to purchase it new. That makes a total of $10,000 to get to the top of the heap. If this customer was unfortunate enough to have purchased, for instance, a PowerCell 10SE Mark I in the interim, the total becomes $15,000.
Well, sir, this is a very tidy sum for those of us who are not among the financial elite. As each new version of the PowerCell hits the market all earlier models immediately depreciate in value. You may get two thousand dollars on the after market for your older PowerCell if you are fortunate enough to find a buyer. But you will note that most of these units now remain unsold after 30 days on Audiogon. Most of the earlier versions are now unsalable. I recommend running them in series.
I can understand your wanting to keep patent information close to your chest. But because this information is normally available to the public since all patent information is supposed to be public, in theory, that is, I find it strange that a search of the Patent Office website turns up nothing for Synergistic Research patents. Please note that I have no doubt regarding the veracity of your statements on this forum regarding your patents. |
